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NCAA HOOPS THREAD! -- K petitions to get Maui Jim Maui Invitational moved to Transylvania (2 Viewers)

Who is worse?

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Well my Gamecocks #### the bed today and are definitely trending in the wrong direction. We may have played our way down to an 8 or 9 seed although I would rather see them get a 10 for obvious reasons. Either way it probably won't matter since the way we are playing we will be a one and done.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think they're a bubble 1 if they lose tonight, locked in as 1 with a win, and the overall 1 with a win tonight and tomorrow. 

When was the last time a team was the overall 1 back to back years?
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:lol:  

Obviously not going to happen but really?  Don't think anyone knows because it's fairly irrelevant.  People remember the last B2B winner because that actually matters. 

 
UNC shouldn't be a 1 seed. If the committee looks carefully at their cake schedule within the conference this year, and sees they went 2-7 vs ranked teams on the road, it just doesn't add up. I'd argue Duke is a lot more deserving of a 1 seed since they have the most top 25 wins (7), and most top 50 wins (12) than anyone in the country.  :shrug:

 
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Top 2 lines seems pretty easy.

East - Villanova & Duke

West - Gonzaga & Oregon/Arizona winner

South - UNC & Kentucky

Midwest - Kansas & Oregon/Arizona loser

 
CabinFever said:
UNC shouldn't be a 1 seed. If the committee looks carefully at their cake schedule within the conference this year, and sees they went 2-7 vs ranked teams on the road, it just doesn't add up. I'd argue Duke is a lot more deserving of a 1 seed since they have the most top 25 wins (7), and most top 50 wins (12) than anyone in the country.  :shrug:
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But UNC isn't in a vacuum for seeding. UNC won the regular season title in the toughest conference I've ever seen in my 45+ years of watching college hoops. And won it by two games. 

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
Top 2 lines seems pretty easy.

East - Villanova & Duke

West - Gonzaga & Oregon/Arizona winner

South - UNC & Kentucky

Midwest - Kansas & Oregon/Arizona loser
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This looks about right to me. Though - do you think Kentucky holds a 2 if they lose today? I have no clue who would replace them, just asking

 
Uruk-Hai said:
This looks about right to me. Though - do you think Kentucky holds a 2 if they lose today? I have no clue who would replace them, just asking
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Didn't think too much about it because I assume Alabama won't beat them.  I guess Baylor could get that #2 but Kentucky is better even with a L today.

 
For the first time in years, I've gotten to actually watch some games these last few weeks.  Here's my gut feel at this point.

Teams I like to make the Final 4 regardless of draw:  Villanova, Kentucky

Teams that I like to make the Final 4, depending on draw:  UNC, Duke, Arizona & Louisville

Teams I expect to fall early:  Kansas, Gonzaga & Baylor

Teams I expect to outplay their seeds:  Wichita State, West Virginia, Virginia & Iowa State

Teams I don't know what to think about:  Oregon, Florida State & UCLA

 
Ugly game for UNC, supposedly they're still a 1, but honestly they didn't look like it.

Justin Jackson should not be shooting highly contested shots from 26 feet, especially when they're dominating the paint. 

It was over when Berry picked up his 4th foul 5 minutes into the 2nd. He needs to drive the ball and create opportunities, when he doesn't, they struggle mightily on offense. 

 
Jayrod said:
For the first time in years, I've gotten to actually watch some games these last few weeks.  Here's my gut feel at this point.

Teams I like to make the Final 4 regardless of draw:  Villanova, Kentucky

Teams that I like to make the Final 4, depending on draw:  UNC, Duke, Arizona & Louisville

Teams I expect to fall early:  Kansas, Gonzaga & Baylor

Teams I expect to outplay their seeds:  Wichita State, West Virginia, Virginia & Iowa State

Teams I don't know what to think about:  Oregon, Florida State & UCLA
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You've probably seen more games than I, plus I'm usually horrifically wrong but I'll play (in order you posted):

1. Nova, Kansas, Louisville

2. UNC, WVU, Purdue, Gonzaga

3. All of the Pac-12 Big Three. I watched UCLA/Arizona last night and they are both talented, but a good defensive team will throttle them and they play worse defense themselves than the 8-10 year-old teams I played on.

4. MTSU, Michigan, Duke, Dunk City

5. Michigan State, UVA, Wisconsin, Butler

 
Uruk-Hai said:
This looks about right to me. Though - do you think Kentucky holds a 2 if they lose today? I have no clue who would replace them, just asking
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Going into yesterday's games, BracketMatrix (a composite bracket made from 114 Lunardi-types across the Internet) had it

1s: Villanova, Kansas, North Carolina, Gonzaga
2s: Kentucky, Oregon, Baylor, Louisville
3s: UCLA, Arizona, Florida State, Duke
4s: Florida, Butler, Purdue, West Virginia

Looking at average seeds... the four 1s were in their own tier... Baylor, Louisville, UCLA all really close... Florida closer to the 3s than the other 4s... clear separation between WVU and the top 5-seed (Virginia)

Doubt the 1-seeds change between now and Selection Sunday.

Duke's win over Louisville Thursday is factored here.  Duke's win over UNC last night is not.  Nor is Arizona's win over UCLA.  

West Virginia's hope to move up got dashed by not getting to play Baylor or Kansas again despite making the Big XII title game today.  

Don't count on Baylor getting bumped off its 2-seed.  Their non-conference wins are awesome: Oregon, Louisville, VCU, Xavier, Michigan State.  Duke and Arizona are battling for Louisville's spot as the last 2-seed.  

 
Uruk-Hai said:
But UNC isn't in a vacuum for seeding. UNC won the regular season title in the toughest conference I've ever seen in my 45+ years of watching college hoops. And won it by two games. 
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But have you LOOKED at THEIR schedule in the league this year??  If you take the top 9 teams in the conference that could make the NCAA Tournament, they only played the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ranked teams (ND, FSU, Louisville) at home only. Then they played the 5th and 6th teams in the standings (Duke and UVA) twice and lost to both teams on the road. Then played the 7th and 8th seeded teams Syracuse and VT on their home floor only. They literally didn't beat an ACC team on the road except for the bottom 4 teams (BC, State, Pitt, Clemson) and their best road win was at Wake (10th in the standings)

Duke meanwhile played on the road vs EVERY TEAM in the top 10 of the ACC standings (excluding themselves of course). 

So yes, the ACC was one of the toughest conferences in the nation this year, but UNC had the easiest possible schedule and Duke had the hardest. And Duke beat UNC twice, and finished with 1 less loss after this weekend. So no, if Duke is a 2 or 3 or even 4 seed (laughable) like some on here are saying, then how the hell is UNC a 1 seed again?  :shrug:

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
Pomeroy fans will be targeting West Virginia (KP #4), Virginia (#7), Wichita State (#9), St. Mary's (#13), and SMU (#15) for bracket upsets.  
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That would be me.  Over the last few years, picking bracket matchups based solely on Pomeroy efficiency has been one of if not the best model.  

 
Jayrod said:
For the first time in years, I've gotten to actually watch some games these last few weeks.  Here's my gut feel at this point.

Teams I like to make the Final 4 regardless of draw:  Villanova, Kentucky

Teams that I like to make the Final 4, depending on draw:  UNC, Duke, Arizona & Louisville

Teams I expect to fall early:  Kansas, Gonzaga & Baylor

Teams I expect to outplay their seeds:  Wichita State, West Virginia, Virginia & Iowa State

Teams I don't know what to think about:  Oregon, Florida State & UCLA
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I love them but FSU can't shoot free throws. The PG and main ball handler is like 60% for the year and was in a 13-35 funk before the ACC tourney. I'm fading them. 

 
Optimal bracket scoring system?  I've used 2-3-5-8-13-21 with upset points in the first two rounds the past two years, but wouldn't mind mixing it up.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Optimal bracket scoring system?  I've used 2-3-5-8-13-21 with upset points in the first two rounds the past two years, but wouldn't mind mixing it up.
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I like ones that value more correct picks, and even reward correctly picking upsets than ones that weigh too heavily on picking the overall champ.  But that's just me.

 
CabinFever said:
But have you LOOKED at THEIR schedule in the league this year??  If you take the top 9 teams in the conference that could make the NCAA Tournament, they only played the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ranked teams (ND, FSU, Louisville) at home only. Then they played the 5th and 6th teams in the standings (Duke and UVA) twice and lost to both teams on the road. Then played the 7th and 8th seeded teams Syracuse and VT on their home floor only. They literally didn't beat an ACC team on the road except for the bottom 4 teams (BC, State, Pitt, Clemson) and their best road win was at Wake (10th in the standings)

Duke meanwhile played on the road vs EVERY TEAM in the top 10 of the ACC standings (excluding themselves of course). 

So yes, the ACC was one of the toughest conferences in the nation this year, but UNC had the easiest possible schedule and Duke had the hardest. And Duke beat UNC twice, and finished with 1 less loss after this weekend. So no, if Duke is a 2 or 3 or even 4 seed (laughable) like some on here are saying, then how the hell is UNC a 1 seed again?  :shrug:
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:shrug:

I think UNC is a 1 seed based on what I've seen when compared to the other contenders. It won't matter a whit in the long run - beat who is in front of you - but it's not UNC vs Duke. That's myopic, and a view that way too many Heels and Devils fans fall into.

Plus, this way, you get to play the "no one gave us any respect" if your team wins.

 
Prince Myshkin said:
They also did not have Pinson for most of their losses.  He makes a huge difference for them.  Without the phantom foul call(s) on Berry last night, nobody is arguing about Carolina as a #1
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And using that same logic, Duke was without their coach for a month, Jefferson for a bunch of games, Tatum, Jackson, Allen, and Giles for a bunch of games. And the 4th foul on Berry wasn't a phantom call, he hit Jackson's wrist. There were bad calls on both sides last night, but that was clearly a foul. 

 
Uruk-Hai said:
:shrug:

I think UNC is a 1 seed based on what I've seen when compared to the other contenders. It won't matter a whit in the long run - beat who is in front of you - but it's not UNC vs Duke. That's myopic, and a view that way too many Heels and Devils fans fall into.

Plus, this way, you get to play the "no one gave us any respect" if your team wins.
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Well that's true, we'll see what happens when they throw the ball up, but if I'm a UNC fan, I'm worried about the team's troubles on the road. No one will deny that they were great at home, I think they went undefeated, but when they have played ranked opponents away from home (2-7 after last night's loss) the results haven't been good. 

 
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If Oregon beats Arizona tonight they are a 1 seed, most likely in the West.  If Arizona wins it will be interesting but I would guess both Oregon and Arizona are 2 seeds.

 
Don't Noonan said:
If Oregon beats Arizona tonight they are a 1 seed, most likely in the West.  If Arizona wins it will be interesting but I would guess both Oregon and Arizona are 2 seeds.
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Still don't think it's that simple unless you think Oregon and Gonzaga are both 1s. Even if Oregon wins, Gonzaga will still have more top 50 wins, no top 50 losses, only two spots back of Oregon in RPI, but leads in every other area (bpi, kenpom, safaris etc). 

 
Don't Noonan said:
If Oregon beats Arizona tonight they are a 1 seed, most likely in the West.  If Arizona wins it will be interesting but I would guess both Oregon and Arizona are 2 seeds.
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Other than being an Oregon fan, what makes O's 29-4, 16-2 that much more impressive than Arizona's 29-4, 16-2? (or UCLA's 29-4, 15-3 plus big out of conference road win at UK)

 
Scoresman said:
Still don't think it's that simple unless you think Oregon and Gonzaga are both 1s. Even if Oregon wins, Gonzaga will still have more top 50 wins, no top 50 losses, only two spots back of Oregon in RPI, but leads in every other area (bpi, kenpom, safaris etc). 
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Agreed.  Outside the very top, the PAC12 wasn't particularly good.  Gonzaga has non-conference wins against Zona, Florida, and Iowa State and 3 wins against St. Mary's. At 32-1, hard to see them not getting the #1 seed. 

 
Really disappointed by UCLA's performance last night but I  still think they have the talent to make it to the Final 4 whatever seed they end up with. 

 
Prince Myshkin said:
Other than being an Oregon fan, what makes O's 29-4, 16-2 that much more impressive than Arizona's 29-4, 16-2? (or UCLA's 29-4, 15-3 plus big out of conference road win at UK)
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Well for starters,  Oregon dismantled Arizona by 30 and was up almost 40 with 10 minutes left.  They also blew a 19 point lead at UCLA but managed a split in the series.  The biggest thing that is being overlooked about Oregon is that their best player and PAC 12 player of the year Dillon Brooks was hurt when Oregon started out the year 2-2 and everyone dismissed them early.  

Oregon is a very mature and experienced team and the experience from last year's  elite 8 run will help.  Of their 7 rotation players the ages are 25, 24, 22, 21, 21, 21, and 19.  Add in an exceptional coach in Altman and this team has a good a shot as any to cut down the nets.

 
Scoresman said:
Still don't think it's that simple unless you think Oregon and Gonzaga are both 1s. Even if Oregon wins, Gonzaga will still have more top 50 wins, no top 50 losses, only two spots back of Oregon in RPI, but leads in every other area (bpi, kenpom, safaris etc). 
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I think Gonzaga or Oregon could be shipped to another spot as a 1

 
Don't Noonan said:
Well for starters,  Oregon dismantled Arizona by 30 and was up almost 40 with 10 minutes left.  They also blew a 19 point lead at UCLA but managed a split in the series.  The biggest thing that is being overlooked about Oregon is that their best player and PAC 12 player of the year Dillon Brooks was hurt when Oregon started out the year 2-2 and everyone dismissed them early.  

Oregon is a very mature and experienced team and the experience from last year's  elite 8 run will help.  Of their 7 rotation players the ages are 25, 24, 22, 21, 21, 21, and 19.  Add in an exceptional coach in Altman and this team has a good a shot as any to cut down the nets.
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You've got a great team and I think they go deep.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Well for starters,  Oregon dismantled Arizona by 30 and was up almost 40 with 10 minutes left.  They also blew a 19 point lead at UCLA but managed a split in the series.  The biggest thing that is being overlooked about Oregon is that their best player and PAC 12 player of the year Dillon Brooks was hurt when Oregon started out the year 2-2 and everyone dismissed them early.  

Oregon is a very mature and experienced team and the experience from last year's  elite 8 run will help.  Of their 7 rotation players the ages are 25, 24, 22, 21, 21, 21, and 19.  Add in an exceptional coach in Altman and this team has a good a shot as any to cut down the nets.
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But if Zona wins tonight, that would erase much of that game at Oregon.  And didn't Arizona start the year without one of their better players (maybe the Zags game was his first game back if I remember correctly).  

I like Oregon a lot...but I also like Arizona and UCLA and don't see how their resume is that much better where you can say if they win they are a #1 for sure, but if Zona wins, they wouldn't.  FWIW, I think Gonzaga already has that #1 out West locked up.  

 
Prince Myshkin said:
But if Zona wins tonight, that would erase much of that game at Oregon.  And didn't Arizona start the year without one of their better players (maybe the Zags game was his first game back if I remember correctly).  

I like Oregon a lot...but I also like Arizona and UCLA and don't see how their resume is that much better where you can say if they win they are a #1 for sure, but if Zona wins, they wouldn't.  FWIW, I think Gonzaga already has that #1 out West locked up.  
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They started without Trier but have actually played less efficient since his return so it's not really an argument in their favor. 

 
Prince Myshkin said:
But if Zona wins tonight, that would erase much of that game at Oregon.  And didn't Arizona start the year without one of their better players (maybe the Zags game was his first game back if I remember correctly).  

I like Oregon a lot...but I also like Arizona and UCLA and don't see how their resume is that much better where you can say if they win they are a #1 for sure, but if Zona wins, they wouldn't.  FWIW, I think Gonzaga already has that #1 out West locked up.  
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When the initial projected seedings came out a few weeks ago Oregon was the highest ranked PAC 12 team as a 2, Arizona 3, and UCLA a 4.  Since then, Oregon has not lost, Arizona lost at home to UCLA,  and UCLA lost to Arizona.  Add in the fact that everyone else in front of Oregon lost a game including the comittee's 4th 1 seed Gonzaga and I don't see how Oregon doesn't pass up Gonzaga if they beat Arizona tonight.  

I agree that all three teams are very good, but my cconclusions are coming from the initial seedings.  Nobody thought Oregon would be a 1 seed last year and this team is more impressive than last year's team.

 
Don't Noonan said:
When the initial projected seedings came out a few weeks ago Oregon was the highest ranked PAC 12 team as a 2, Arizona 3, and UCLA a 4.  Since then, Oregon has not lost, Arizona lost at home to UCLA,  and UCLA lost to Arizona.  Add in the fact that everyone else in front of Oregon lost a game including the comittee's 4th 1 seed Gonzaga and I don't see how Oregon doesn't pass up Gonzaga if they beat Arizona tonight.  

I agree that all three teams are very good, but my cconclusions are coming from the initial seedings.  Nobody thought Oregon would be a 1 seed last year and this team is more impressive than last year's team.
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Except I don't think the committee starts their analysis with games from a few weeks ago.  You're cherry picking here. 

Yes Gonzaga lost a game but they also beat a top 15 RPI team twice since then too. I can cherry pick too. 

Right now, if Oregon wins today I see it as 50/50 between the two getting the 1, assuming they both don't get a 1. The real travesty will be if they ship either team out of the West region. 

 
I don't care how many top 50 wins they have right now. Putting Syracuse in with a 1.) 2-11 road/neutral record; 2.) RPI of 84; 3.) non-conference SOS of 195 ... Would be sending such a terrible message.

That's all I have for now.

 
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