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NCAA HOOPS THREAD! -- K petitions to get Maui Jim Maui Invitational moved to Transylvania (5 Viewers)

Who is worse?

  • Total voters
    278
Long Ball Larry said:
Anthony Grant back on the scene, crispy and clean, at Dayton.
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I think it's a good hire.  The Dayton job seems comparable to the mid-major power job that Grant inherited at VCU.  He maintained Jeff Capel's level of success there.  He struggled at Alabama but he's not the first coach to have problems with the Tide.  I don't follow SEC basketball that much but he seemed like a stand up guy.

 
Eephus said:
I think it's a good hire.  The Dayton job seems comparable to the mid-major power job that Grant inherited at VCU.  He maintained Jeff Capel's level of success there.  He struggled at Alabama but he's not the first coach to have problems with the Tide.  I don't follow SEC basketball that much but he seemed like a stand up guy.
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Yeah, it's not bad.  Supposedly the fan base loves him and assumes he would stay for life as an alum, salving some of the wounds of Miller jumping ship.  He really built on Capel's success and elevated the team, setting up Smart's final 4 run by recruiting the core of that team.  He really wasn't terrible at Alabama all things being considered.  It was probably a bad move career-wise.  I think Wade and even Smart will find the same thing, though they got paid, so good for them.

 
Capella said:
How could anybody, even our most simple of simpletons be against these guys getting paid?
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I dunno.  These schools don't have a ton of money to spend, and if players are paid it will be harder for second-tier schools to compete against the powerhouses. The floating river attraction that the University of Central Florida is building for its athletes doesn't even have a bartender serving pina coladas.  How can you be expected to pay your athletes a salary when you can't even afford a float-up bar with a frozen drink machine?

 
TobiasFunke said:
I dunno.  These schools don't have a ton of money to spend, and if players are paid it will be harder for second-tier schools to compete against the powerhouses. The floating river attraction that the University of Central Florida is building for its athletes doesn't even have a bartender serving pina coladas.  How can you be expected to pay your athletes a salary when you can't even afford a float-up bar with a frozen drink machine?
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####ing sad man. Prayers up. 

 
T J said:
Nope. They're getting a free education, room/board. That's pretty valuable.
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"Value", in this sense, is relative. If I'm a basketball player, meaning that is what I've devoted most of my time/energy towards during my adolescence, I'm already moving towards a life in basketball. That's not necessarily the pros, it might mean playing in Europe, or, like one of my friends who played D2 college ball and kicked around the NBADL for a couple seasons, coaching several youth teams. The degree from the university (or the time spent at the university), isn't AS valuable if you're going into basketball the profession.

Another friend of mine played basketball in the late 90's at a well-known university. Said degree was valuable to him as well, but he also could've gotten into said university without an academic scholarship. He quickly realized after school that he'd topped out athletically and became an engineer. The degree had more direct value to him, but he also could've easily swung it himself via help from parents/loans.

It's also relative to the staggering amount of money it generates for the sports networks, the apparel companies, and the universities. Which is the real travesty in all of this, of course. If you have not, I would urge you to read the story linked below from the Atlantic. I am going to read it again tonight, for the third or fourth time.

Here's a fun quote near the beginning:

“I’M NOT HIDING,” Sonny Vaccaro told a closed hearing at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., in 2001. “We want to put our materials on the bodies of your athletes, and the best way to do that is buy your school. Or buy your coach.”

Vaccaro’s audience, the members of the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, bristled. These were eminent reformers—among them the president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, two former heads of the U.S. Olympic Committee, and several university presidents and chancellors. The Knight Foundation, a nonprofit that takes an interest in college athletics as part of its concern with civic life, had tasked them with saving college sports from runaway commercialism as embodied by the likes of Vaccaro, who, since signing his pioneering shoe contract with Michael Jordan in 1984, had built sponsorship empires successively at Nike, Adidas, and Reebok. Not all the members could hide their scorn for the “sneaker pimp” of schoolyard hustle, who boasted of writing checks for millions to everybody in higher education.

“Why,” asked Bryce Jordan, the president emeritus of Penn State, “should a university be an advertising medium for your industry?”

Vaccaro did not blink. “They shouldn’t, sir,” he replied. “You sold your souls, and you’re going to continue selling them. You can be very moral and righteous in asking me that question, sir,” Vaccaro added with irrepressible good cheer, “but there’s not one of you in this room that’s going to turn down any of our money. You’re going to take it. I can only offer it.”
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/308643/

 
Peyton Marino said:
If I were you I would hate this dude. Made cbb market so much more efficient.
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Yeah, it's amazing how efficient the small market games have become.  His name is obviously the most recognizable but the wealth of information out there now for people who want to really follow CBB is crazy.  barttorvik.com is a similar type of site that doesn't get as much recognition.

The good thing is occasionally KP is off when you know why he is off.  :devil:

 
Thornwell flu and line not moving has me scared off SC. Was planning on betting both dogs. Have one SC bet already, will add zags ml with Ore plus points. Feel like Ore has legit chance to win outright.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Thornwell flu and line not moving has me scared off SC. Was planning on betting both dogs. Have one SC bet already, will add zags ml with Ore plus points. Feel like Ore has legit chance to win outright.
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Is it confirmed Thornwell has the flu?  Reports were he was going to practice today and there was nothing really wrong with him.  

 
That's good for SC then.

I feel adequate practice is crucial in the Final Four due to the increased depth behind the baskets throwing shots off.  

 
Scoresman said:
That's good for SC then.

I feel adequate practice is crucial in the Final Four due to the increased depth behind the baskets throwing shots off.  
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I don't believe in a lot of weird, dopey sports axioms, but I really think teams that crash the glass and don't rely too much on the 3 have a markedly better chance of cutting down the nets in the tournament. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
I don't believe in a lot of weird, dopey sports axioms, but I really think teams that crash the glass and don't rely too much on the 3 have a markedly better chance of cutting down the nets in the tournament. 
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I kinda agree. Unless you have consistent 3 pt assassins - which I don't think any of these teams do - give me a team that can clean up around the basket. UNC appears to be the best remaining team at that, but it's a scramble now and a hot player can maybe carry someone else through.

 
Patrick Ewing to coach Georgetown.  He has experience as an NBA assistant and clear lineage to the Thompsons.  I'm not sure the latter is a good thing but it appears to be important for the university.

 
Eephus said:
Patrick Ewing to coach Georgetown.  He has experience as an NBA assistant and clear lineage to the Thompsons.  I'm not sure the latter is a good thing but it appears to be important for the university.
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I think Georgetown had to make this hire. A couple of reasons (& there are many, many more as this is an extremely complicated situation):

1. Ewing deserves it. He's been a great soldier for a long, long time and what better way to get his feet wet?

2. This gives Georgetown a weaning out of the Thompson legacy (as much as they can ever have) should it be necessary - if Ewing succeeds, all's right in the world; if he doesn't, they can them move outside of the family if they wish because the well is pretty much dry.

3. Tommy Amaker would have been a horrible choice.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I think Georgetown had to make this hire. A couple of reasons (& there are many, many more as this is an extremely complicated situation):

1. Ewing deserves it. He's been a great soldier for a long, long time and what better way to get his feet wet?

2. This gives Georgetown a weaning out of the Thompson legacy (as much as they can ever have) should it be necessary - if Ewing succeeds, all's right in the world; if he doesn't, they can them move outside of the family if they wish because the well is pretty much dry.

3. Tommy Amaker would have been a horrible choice.
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4.  Other big name coaches weren't interested

 
Eephus said:
4.  Other big name coaches weren't interested
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That's one of the other things I alluded to - if Ewing doesn't hit it out of the park, the job at Georgetown is just this side of Seton Hall or DePaul. They really haven't been relevant in 25 years other than a blip or two.

I think Shaka Smart would have been a better hire, had he wanted it. But I think the Georgetown folks have basically thrown down the gauntlet with the Ewing hire to get the Thompson thing done once & for all.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
That's one of the other things I alluded to - if Ewing doesn't hit it out of the park, the job at Georgetown is just this side of Seton Hall or DePaul. They really haven't been relevant in 25 years other than a blip or two.

I think Shaka Smart would have been a better hire, had he wanted it. But I think the Georgetown folks have basically thrown down the gauntlet with the Ewing hire to get the Thompson thing done once & for all.
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I don't think Georgetown has fallen that far.   Six NCAA bids in the past decade although none recently.  Like Indiana and UCLA, they're never going to be able to beat their past but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to compete with the likes of Xavier and Creighton.  Georgetown spends a lot of money on their program and plays in a NBA building. 

 
Eephus said:
I don't think Georgetown has fallen that far.   Six NCAA bids in the past decade although none recently.  Like Indiana and UCLA, they're never going to be able to beat their past but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to compete with the likes of Xavier and Creighton.  Georgetown spends a lot of money on their program and plays in a NBA building. 
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I think playing in the Verizon Center hurts more than helps.  Their average attendance is about 8,000, which is not terrible, but it feels empty in that big of a venue.

 
Don Quixote said:
I think playing in the Verizon Center hurts more than helps.  Their average attendance is about 8,000, which is not terrible, but it feels empty in that big of a venue.
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True but their on-campus gym is way too small and they'll never be able to get a building closer to campus.  Hell, they can't even get a Metro station near campus.

If the program improves, they'll fill more seats at Verizon Center. 

 
In one contest where if Zags win I get $500 with 2nd place $250. Heels owner called & offered a chop so I accepted. Kinda like the Zags to win but it's so close I wasn't going to turn down the split. 

I was out in Vegas for the S16 & G8 & one of the stranger odds at the book was Oregon +7 @ +310 against Kansas. Really odd IMO to see a line that low that pays 310. I wanted to get down on it but wussed even though the gut said "the money line is way too high!" Still won a Oregon/Under parlay but didn't pay as well as the *310.

For anyone who has Vegas during the NCAA tourney on their bucket list stop wasting time & just do it! Fantastic!  :thumbup:

 
Buzzbait said:
In one contest where if Zags win I get $500 with 2nd place $250. Heels owner called & offered a chop so I accepted. Kinda like the Zags to win but it's so close I wasn't going to turn down the split. 

I was out in Vegas for the S16 & G8 & one of the stranger odds at the book was Oregon +7 @ +310 against Kansas. Really odd IMO to see a line that low that pays 310. I wanted to get down on it but wussed even though the gut said "the money line is way too high!" Still won a Oregon/Under parlay but didn't pay as well as the *310.

For anyone who has Vegas during the NCAA tourney on their bucket list stop wasting time & just do it! Fantastic!  :thumbup:
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I'm a Zag homer.  You made a nice choice as you still win bucks.   Vegas is cool but I fall under the spell after 1 1/2 days and do some crazy bets.  Bets that I would not make in my home.  Got to admit, if they hit it's amazing & so am I even for a few minutes.

cheers.

 
Eephus said:
True but their on-campus gym is way too small and they'll never be able to get a building closer to campus.  Hell, they can't even get a Metro station near campus.

If the program improves, they'll fill more seats at Verizon Center. 
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They could tear down McDonough and put up a new one in its footprint.  Attendance will bounce back some with a better team, but I don't think it will ever get back to what they were averaging in the mid-late 2000s.  The Big East is not as big of a draw as it used to be.

 
I think Collins and Williams-Goss are both gone, which will probably leave the Zags at the lower end of next year's pre-season top 25.

 
Don Quixote said:
They could tear down McDonough and put up a new one in its footprint.  Attendance will bounce back some with a better team, but I don't think it will ever get back to what they were averaging in the mid-late 2000s.  The Big East is not as big of a draw as it used to be.
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I don't think you can blame the building for attendance.  The Hoyas played in Landover during their heyday.

Big East schools generally have fewer students and alumni than the big state universities but Creighton and Marquette are top 15 nationally in attendance

 
Washington just really isn't a college basketball town anymore.  In the 80s, it was Redskins, Hoyas, and Terps.  Now, the Caps, Nats, and even the Wiz command plenty of attention.  This will always primarily be a Redskins town, but even the basketball fans in the city (who aren't necessarily Wiz fans) tend to be more drawn to the NBA. 

 
Any urban university in a big city has the problem of competing against pro teams for attendance and attention.  It's probably worse in cities with a more transient population.  Miami and Ga. Tech are at the bottom of ACC attendance.  Washington, USC and UCLA struggle out west and Minnesota only tops Rutgers in the Big Ten.

I don't think this should be a big problem for Georgetown.  They're ranked #51 in 2016 attendance, ahead of successful programs like UCLA, Baylor, Fla. St & SMU (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2016.pdf).

If they can win under Ewing, more fans will show up.  Probably not in enough numbers to fill the Verizon Center but enough to create some more atmosphere and rake in more money for the university.

 
Eephus said:
I don't think you can blame the building for attendance.  The Hoyas played in Landover during their heyday.

Big East schools generally have fewer students and alumni than the big state universities but Creighton and Marquette are top 15 nationally in attendance
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I don't blame the building for the attendance -- I just blame it for the atmosphere being pretty terrible.

Creighton and Marquette do well locally, but I don't think they extend nationally as well as the old Big East teams did.  There are a lot of Syracuse, WVU, and Pitt alums that live in the DC area -- I know some of each that would go to the Georgetown games when they were in town.  I'm sure there are some Creighton and Marquette alums in town that do the same, but I don't think they have quite the same DC presence.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Well-played, Cuonzo.


Michael Porter Jr. commits to Missouri after receiving release from Washington



Nation's No. 2 recruit is following his father, hired as an assistant to Cuonzo Martin, to Mizzou
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Cuonzo strikes again!

East St. Louis C Jeremiah Tilmon, a top 30 player in the 2017 class, has asked out of his LOI to Illinois.  
Not a coincidence that Tilmon did this shortly after East St Louis HS alumnus Cuonzo Martin just took the Mizzou job.  

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Seems to be happening.

http://www.kake.com/story/35069813/source-wichita-state-to-join-american-athletic-conference
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Wichita State would be a good pairing with Navy here.  Navy is AAC in football but Patriot in all other sports.  They're content with having a national conference for football but staying regional with their other sports. 
Wichita State doesn't have a school-sponsored football team.  They dropped football about 30 years ago.  They lost about half the team to a plane crash in the 1970s and the program never really recovered from it.  They've kicked around the idea of restarting the program a few times, but the expense of a rebuilt stadium (with no other tenant to share it with) and having to add at least three women's sports along with football (Title IX compliance) isn't worth the trouble for the school.  And when I say "school", I mean "Koch family booster money".
So Navy and Wichita State could be a combined 12th member of the conference, allowing the conference to stage a championship game in football and have a nice even number of basketball programs.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Wichita State would be a good pairing with Navy here.  Navy is AAC in football but Patriot in all other sports.  They're content with having a national conference for football but staying regional with their other sports. 
Wichita State doesn't have a school-sponsored football team.  They dropped football about 30 years ago.  They lost about half the team to a plane crash in the 1970s and the program never really recovered from it.  They've kicked around the idea of restarting the program a few times, but the expense of a rebuilt stadium (with no other tenant to share it with) and having to add at least three women's sports along with football (Title IX compliance) isn't worth the trouble for the school.  And when I say "school", I mean "Koch family booster money".
So Navy and Wichita State could be a combined 12th member of the conference, allowing the conference to stage a championship game in football and have a nice even number of basketball programs.
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It actually makes a shocking amount of sense. 

Btw can we just rename the AAC the Metro? I want to call it the Metro. 

 
Capella said:
That is some mighty fine posting right there. Gonna fire up the Apple TV this weekend and take that late-80s glory in. 
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I remember those Metro days pretty well myself. I remember in Pervis Ellison's freshman, championship year we lost to them by 4 points both times we faced them. I couldn't stand Denny Crum.

 
Instituting a rule right now that no one mentions the guy who's kid played for UCLA and has two other kids that are going to play for UCLA. Put it in a different thread imo. /gavel

 
Capella said:
That is some mighty fine posting right there. Gonna fire up the Apple TV this weekend and take that late-80s glory in. 
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It was a different time for conferences.  The Metro had seven teams in 1989, and four made the NCAA Tournament: Florida State, Louisville, Memphis State, and South Carolina.  
Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, and Southern Miss missed the cut.
Tulane was taking a break from basketball in the aftermath of a point-shaving scandal.

Trivia: The Metro suits knew how cable TV would realign college sports, and after this basketball season ended they tried to form a 16-team superconference for basketball and add football to the conference.  They tried to organize all those east coast football independents that were Big East or A-10 in hoops, (proposed a North Division of BC, Cincy, Pitt, Rutgers, Cuse, Temple, VTech, and West Virginia and a South Division of East Carolina, Fla St, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, South Carolina, Southern Miss, and Tulane) but the Big East figured out what was going on and added football, thwarting the plan.  

 
Carlton Bragg transferring out of Kansas.
Showed some promise late in freshman year, struggled a lot as a soph on and off the court.  Fresh start is probably for the best. 
No future plans announced yet.  Cleveland kid, was a national recruit out of high school (McD's AA with offers from several traditional powers) but my guess is he transfers close to home.  

Wish him good luck and no ill will.  He made some mistakes, but there was off-court trouble up and down the roster this season.

Oak Hill PF Billy Preston likely takes Bragg's projected spots at PF and keyboards.

Self usually has postseason debriefings with every player and their family around this time.  This is where he recommends if they should consider declaring for the NBA Draft, are better off staying another year in Lawrence, or if another school will be a better fit.  Curious what he recommends for Devonte Graham and Svi Mykhailiuk; both could play their way into the 2018 first round, but both expected to be done and turning pro this summer.  
 

 
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