NCAA HOOPS THREAD! -- K petitions to get Maui Jim Maui Invitational moved to Transylvania (1 Viewer)

[ffmail4me]

I think if UNC can play through its bracket with the same intensity they play Duke (and I give them credit, they always get up and play well against their rival) I honestly believe we could see Duke vs UNC in the finals. UNC definitely has a harder bracket, but they really impressed me over the last month of the season. As an ACC fan, I'd love to see Duke, UVA, and UNC all in the final four, and I think its a real possibility unless UVA shats the bed. Hopefully Duke gets Bolden back, as he would really help their chances IMO. And I'm not going to complain about Duke's bracket, overall I think its one of the friendly ones, but playing VTech on that court is pretty brutal for the #1 overall seed. Definitely no favors there.

 

[MAC_32]

I think if UNC can play through its bracket with the same intensity they play Duke (and I give them credit, they always get up and play well against their rival) I honestly believe we could see Duke vs UNC in the finals. UNC definitely has a harder bracket, but they really impressed me over the last month of the season. As an ACC fan, I'd love to see Duke, UVA, and UNC all in the final four, and I think its a real possibility unless UVA shats the bed. Hopefully Duke gets Bolden back, as he would really help their chances IMO. And I'm not going to complain about Duke's bracket, overall I think its one of the friendly ones, but playing VTech on that court is pretty brutal for the #1 overall seed. Definitely no favors there.

If Kentucky or Houston make it to next weekend I think that's a coin flip game for Carolina.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I didn't watch the ACC Final (#### Duke), but man, Zion is so good... Wanted to barf watching him against UNC, absolutely unstoppable. 

 

[cheese]

The Michigan/MSU example is still awful decisions by the committee.  It's not like playing in Wash DC is a huge advantage for the "closer region".

They don't need to do conference matchups in the Sweet 16 either.  They could have put FSU on the 3-line and put VT in the Gonzaga bracket to avoid that.  Also, Michigan St might have to play Minnesota in the second round.  That's just dumb. 

Overall, not much to whine about with the seeding but doesn't mean it was perfect either.

Despite my earlier posts the committee was terrible IMO and those are some of the examples. At absolute minimum they should’ve traded Minnesota and Seton Hall

also Montana/Michigan a second straight year instead of Bradley?

 

[TobiasFunke]

If Kentucky or Houston make it to next weekend I think that's a coin flip game for Carolina.

I would guess they'd be close to a coin flip against Kentucky, maybe a slight favorite, and a 3-4 point favorite over Houston. 

I don't think people realize how good UNC has been since mid-January.  They have two losses since then. One was to UVa when they lost Nassir Little to injury early in the game and lost their best player Cam Johnson to injury down the stretch (if you have KenPom access you can basically see where he went down in the game chart). The other was Friday night at the buzzer to Duke w/ Zion. IMO this is a better UNC team than the one that won the title in 2017; they just have tougher competition.

[fully prepared for them to get taken out by Utah State now that I've said this]

 

[Capella]

Not looking at a bracket currently, but the couple that come to mind were Gonzaga getting a 1 after losing to a bad team in their tournament.  Michigan State getting a 2 seed and put in Duke's bracket.  Tennessee possibly having to play Cincinnati in Ohio to get to the Sweet 16.

Nothing major, but usually I'm more upset with teams not being included than I am about seedings.

Body of work. The conference tournaments are just one more game to look at. 

 

[whoknew]

Confession time.  I'm a basketball nerd, but possibly the least engaged one that you could find.  Having a hockey playing daughter has killed a lot of opportunity.  I'm looking for a couple of teams to watch in the first two rounds (or more) that meet some of the following criteria, in no particular order, for obtaining a basketball stiffy.  Please advice.  HAGS, YIC, etc.  

Excellent team defense, man or zone

Teams/programs known for their 2-3 or 1-3-1

Ball movement on offense

The Princeton offense 

A significant press or halfcourt trap game

Refined offensive individual players

Must see hoop freaks not named "Zion," who I will for sure watch later in the tourney

Good David v Goliath matchup

You may like Michigan. They don't play zone, but they have the #2 defense in the country. And John Beilein's offense has always been cutting edge.

And their alpha dog is Xavier Simpson. He is a must see hoop freak. He's a 6' point guard who can't shoot. But he absolutely controls every game they are in. He had like 30 assists and 1 turnover in the Big Ten tournament. And he has single handedly brought brought back the hook shot.

They also have a 6'7" Lithuanian born, Canadian bred scorer who - if Mi makes it far - everyone will love to hate.

 

[whoknew]

I think if UNC can play through its bracket with the same intensity they play Duke (and I give them credit, they always get up and play well against their rival) I honestly believe we could see Duke vs UNC in the finals. UNC definitely has a harder bracket, but they really impressed me over the last month of the season. As an ACC fan, I'd love to see Duke, UVA, and UNC all in the final four, and I think its a real possibility unless UVA shats the bed. Hopefully Duke gets Bolden back, as he would really help their chances IMO. And I'm not going to complain about Duke's bracket, overall I think its one of the friendly ones, but playing VTech on that court is pretty brutal for the #1 overall seed. Definitely no favors there.

Well, yea. They are both 1 seeds. 

 

[ffmail4me]

Well, yea. They are both 1 seeds. 

But its never happened. They have NEVER met in the tournament before. That's pretty amazing when you think about how often both teams are playing in it, and how many Final Fours both schools have been to

 

[Steve Tasker]

Confession time.  I'm a basketball nerd, but possibly the least engaged one that you could find.  Having a hockey playing daughter has killed a lot of opportunity.  I'm looking for a couple of teams to watch in the first two rounds (or more) that meet some of the following criteria, in no particular order, for obtaining a basketball stiffy.  Please advice.  HAGS, YIC, etc.  

Excellent team defense, man or zone

Teams/programs known for their 2-3 or 1-3-1

Ball movement on offense

The Princeton offense 

A significant press or halfcourt trap game

Refined offensive individual players

Must see hoop freaks not named "Zion," who I will for sure watch later in the tourney

Good David v Goliath matchup

If Wofford gets past Seton Hall, their second-round game against Kentucky (assuming UK gets past Abilene Christian) will be a very fun David vs. Goliath matchup.  Kentucky is, as usual, stacked with a bunch of blue-chip juggernaut freshmen.  Wofford is a sweet-shooting offensive team (#12 Kenpom offense and #14 Torvik offense), second best 3-point shooting % in the country, and maybe the single best shooter in the country in Fletcher Magee, who is about to break the all-time D-1 3 pointer record.  They've got all the hallmarks of a Cinderella story....small private school that nobody even knows where it is, couple of seniors who can score including a legit superstar, lovable dog mascot.

In the first round, as was mentioned earlier, it's gotta be Marquette vs. Murray State.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't think anyone on this planet is impressed by a team scheduling an early season road game at Wofford

Just remembered I got crap for pointing out that Wofford might be pretty good this year and that UNC playing them on the road to open the season was a fairly bold move

 

[TheIronSheik]

Body of work. The conference tournaments are just one more game to look at. 

Sure.  But you could say that Gonzaga was not penalized for their conference final loss while other teams were.

 

[Capella]

Sure.  But you could say that Gonzaga was not penalized for their conference final loss while other teams were.

You don’t know that at all. They easily could have went from 1 or 2 overall to 4 overall. Now that might not be a penalty but I don’t believe the committee needs to go out of its way to make some point. They just didn’t fall off the 1 line because the rest of the resume was so good. 

 

[munga30]

And he has single handedly brought brought back the hook shot.

Schwing!  All my likes.  

 

[Scoresman]

You don’t know that at all. They easily could have went from 1 or 2 overall to 4 overall. Now that might not be a penalty but I don’t believe the committee needs to go out of its way to make some point. They just didn’t fall off the 1 line because the rest of the resume was so good. 

Gonzaga's in a lose-lose with most people.  Lose one game in conference and it's all anyone focuses on.  Win out, and the narrative is how bad the WCC is.  They don't get seen a lot because of playing on the west coast so no one can really do the eye test.  

 

[TheIronSheik]

Gonzaga's in a lose-lose with most people.  Lose one game in conference and it's all anyone focuses on.  Win out, and the narrative is how bad the WCC is.  They don't get seen a lot because of playing on the west coast so no one can really do the eye test.  

Gonzaga lost 50% of the games they played in their conference tournament this year.  I wonder how many other schools in NCAA history have done that and nailed down a #1 seed?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Gonzaga lost 50% of the games they played in their conference tournament this year.  I wonder how many other schools in NCAA history have done that and nailed down a #1 seed?

North Carolina, 2019

Virginia, 2019

 

[Steve Tasker]

Gonzaga's in a lose-lose with most people.  Lose one game in conference and it's all anyone focuses on.  Win out, and the narrative is how bad the WCC is.  They don't get seen a lot because of playing on the west coast so no one can really do the eye test.  

Nate Oats said this on the radio this morning with regard to the MAC.  Something like "we have no opportunity in-conference for quality wins, only bad losses".  WCC has some better teams than the MAC, but the sentiment is the same.  Blunt, but true.

 

[Capella]

North Carolina, 2019

Virginia, 2019

lmfao

 

[Scoresman]

Nate Oats said this on the radio this morning with regard to the MAC.  Something like "we have no opportunity in-conference for quality wins, only bad losses".  WCC has some better teams than the MAC, but the sentiment is the same.  Blunt, but true.

Yup, so all these teams can do is schedule a tough non-con which Gonzaga does, and pass the eye test, which Gonzaga does.  Spouting the usual tropes about the WCC and Gonzaga's SoS and basing your conclusion on that  is lazy analysis.

 

[parasaurolophus]

North Carolina, 2019

Virginia, 2019

Kansas in 2017 lost 100% of their conference tourney games. 

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

Despite my earlier posts the committee was terrible IMO and those are some of the examples. At absolute minimum they should’ve traded Minnesota and Seton Hall

Maybe they were throwing MSU a bone and giving them an easy win that they wouldn't even have to re-watch game tapes to prepare for.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Yup, so all these teams can do is schedule a tough non-con which Gonzaga does, and pass the eye test, which Gonzaga does.  Spouting the usual tropes about the WCC and Gonzaga's SoS and basing your conclusion on that  is lazy analysis.

Gonzaga is obviously in a different class than every other mid-major, but I think we do sometimes fail to recognize some of the struggles that mid-majors face in just scheduling alone.

The last power conference school to play a road game at Buffalo was South Florida - then a member of the Big East - in 2007.  12 years ago.  Undefeated #2 Pitt came here in 2006, faced an average Buffalo team, and won by 3 in a tight game.  UNC came here once like 20 years ago, it was a big deal at the time.  I think Rutgers came once around that time.  That's pretty much it in the last 20 years.  The opportunity just isn't there for the little guys.  Don't get me wrong, to be the best you have to beat the best, go on the road and do it, most of the mid-majors are garbage...but what incentive do the big schools have for even scheduling a "pretty good" mid-major?  If you win, who cares....if you lose, it's a bad loss.

 

[TheIronSheik]

North Carolina, 2019

Virginia, 2019

Sure.  If you want to go back that far.

 

[cheese]

Gonzaga's in a lose-lose with most people.  Lose one game in conference and it's all anyone focuses on.  Win out, and the narrative is how bad the WCC is.  They don't get seen a lot because of playing on the west coast so no one can really do the eye test.  

I feel the opposite. Put together a really good roster, pummel people and look awesome, get the benefit of the doubt. Nobody has any clue if Gonzaga is the 2nd best team or the 20th and they get a 1 seed. To me, that’s the definition of getting benefit of the doubt. It’s basically a plan that can’t fail. How many times would that roster have to play that schedule to lose more than 3/4 games?

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

I feel the opposite. Put together a really good roster, pummel people and look awesome, get the benefit of the doubt. Nobody has any clue if Gonzaga is the 2nd best team or the 20th and they get a 1 seed. To me, that’s the definition of getting benefit of the doubt. It’s basically a plan that can’t fail. How many times would that roster have to play that schedule to lose more than 3/4 games?

It could also be that in the past, when they've been given worse seeding, they have consistently performed in the tournament like a higher seed.  Looking at their postseason history.  They almost always perform near their seeding.  Seems like the committee nails it most years for Gonzaga.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I feel the opposite. Put together a really good roster, pummel people and look awesome, get the benefit of the doubt. Nobody has any clue if Gonzaga is the 2nd best team or the 20th and they get a 1 seed. To me, that’s the definition of getting benefit of the doubt. It’s basically a plan that can’t fail. How many times would that roster have to play that schedule to lose more than 3/4 games?

What are the odds they could go like 30-4, win their conference tourney and then get like a 4 seed? 

 

[cheese]

What are the odds they could go like 30-4, win their conference tourney and then get like a 4 seed? 

It’s possible in basically the worst case scenario for them.

 

[cheese]

It could also be that in the past, when they've been given worse seeding, they have consistently performed in the tournament like a higher seed.  Looking at their postseason history.  They almost always perform near their seeding.  Seems like the committee nails it most years for Gonzaga.

Ya, Gonzaga didn’t get this treatment by accident. They’re getting ranked based on past years’ tournaments. It is what it is. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

It’s possible in basically the worst case scenario for them.

So last year was worst case scneario?

 

[Scoresman]

Ya, Gonzaga didn’t get this treatment by accident. They’re getting ranked based on past years’ tournaments. It is what it is. 

They got seeded where they are because of their competitiveness with top teams this year in their non-con, and as you put it, the pummeling of the WCC.  Gonzaga doesn't pummel the WCC every year like they did this year.  It was something crazy like a 27 point margin of victory average over the entire regular season conference play.   There's usually some level of competition when they go on the road or against St. Marys/BYU.  This year there wasn't any with the exception of the egg dropped in the conference tourney.  

Last year they were 32-5 and got a 4 seed, which was pretty accurate.  2016 they were 28-8 and got an 11.  

 

[Lionsfan011]

I feel the opposite. Put together a really good roster, pummel people and look awesome, get the benefit of the doubt. Nobody has any clue if Gonzaga is the 2nd best team or the 20th and they get a 1 seed. To me, that’s the definition of getting benefit of the doubt. It’s basically a plan that can’t fail. How many times would that roster have to play that schedule to lose more than 3/4 games?

This is where I’m at with Gonzaga. Their resume is beating Zion Duke....in November, and being efficient at beating up teams in their conference that aren’t much better than division 1-aa teams. Playing in tight, competitive games make you better come NCAA tourney time. They haven’t had one in a long time and didn’t even play a close game in their conference tourney blowout loss. The Zags are 4-3 against Quad1 teams, 1-2 against ranked teams and haven’t played against a ranked team this calendar year. That hardly speaks the resume of a 1 seed. Winning a single game in November doesn’t define you as a 1 seed especially with your lasting impression is being blown out by a scrub team in their conference tourney. Maybe they are as good as most assume they are and cut down the nets or maybe they’re overrated and get bounced early. Congrats to them on getting a 1 seed but their resume for earning a 1 seed is questionable.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This is where I’m at with Gonzaga. Their resume is beating Zion Duke....in November, and being efficient at beating up teams in their conference that aren’t much better than division 1-aa teams. Playing in tight, competitive games make you better come NCAA tourney time. They haven’t had one in a long time and didn’t even play a close game in their conference tourney blowout loss. The Zags are 4-3 against Quad1 teams, 1-2 against ranked teams and haven’t played against a ranked team this calendar year. That hardly speaks the resume of a 1 seed. Winning a single game in November doesn’t define you as a 1 seed especially with your lasting impression is being blown out by a scrub team in their conference tourney. Maybe they are as good as most assume they are and cut down the nets or maybe they’re overrated and get bounced early. Congrats to them on getting a 1 seed but their resume for earning a 1 seed is questionable.

You're a Michigan State fan, right?  Okay let's say you think Gonzaga should be a 4 seed.  Would you complain at all if Michigan State was a #1 in the west and Gonzaga was their #4 (with Kentucky or Tennessee as their #2)?

 

[Lionsfan011]

You're a Michigan State fan, right?  Okay let's say you think Gonzaga should be a 4 seed.  Would you complain at all if Michigan State was a #1 in the west and Gonzaga was their #4 (with Kentucky or Tennessee as their #2)?

I think Gonzaga teeters on the 1-2 seed line and isn’t the auto 1 seed that groupthink assumes they are but sure, I’ll play the above scenario. Yes, I’d be upset as I would’ve felt at worst Gonzaga deserved a 2 seed. But I’d rather have that scenario as a MSU fan than their current situation being in a bracket that has a round of 32 against a team they already played this year (if it’s Minnesota it’s pretty much a true road game), a potential sweet 16 game against Maryland in their backyard, and then Zion Duke. To be fair, Zion Duke feels like Anthony Davis’s Kentucky team and the 1 team to avoid at all costs. Even if the hypothetical scenario above magically involved playing Gonzaga in Spokane and Kentucky in Lexington. 

 

[Scoresman]

This is where I’m at with Gonzaga. Their resume is beating Zion Duke....in November, and being efficient at beating up teams in their conference that aren’t much better than division 1-aa teams. Playing in tight, competitive games make you better come NCAA tourney time. They haven’t had one in a long time and didn’t even play a close game in their conference tourney blowout loss. The Zags are 4-3 against Quad1 teams, 1-2 against ranked teams and haven’t played against a ranked team this calendar year. That hardly speaks the resume of a 1 seed. Winning a single game in November doesn’t define you as a 1 seed especially with your lasting impression is being blown out by a scrub team in their conference tourney. Maybe they are as good as most assume they are and cut down the nets or maybe they’re overrated and get bounced early. Congrats to them on getting a 1 seed but their resume for earning a 1 seed is questionable.

It’s been proven that historically, playing in tight competitive games has no correlation to tournament success. That’s not the only part of your post that is completely wrong but we’ll start there. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I think Gonzaga teeters on the 1-2 seed line and isn’t the auto 1 seed that groupthink assumes they are but sure, I’ll play the above scenario. Yes, I’d be upset as I would’ve felt at worst Gonzaga deserved a 2 seed. But I’d rather have that scenario as a MSU fan than their current situation being in a bracket that has a round of 32 against a team they already played this year (if it’s Minnesota it’s pretty much a true road game), a potential sweet 16 game against Maryland in their backyard, and then Zion Duke. To be fair, Zion Duke feels like Anthony Davis’s Kentucky team and the 1 team to avoid at all costs. Even if the hypothetical scenario above magically involved playing Gonzaga in Spokane and Kentucky in Lexington. 

I don't think many think they are an automatic 1-seed.  The chair said if Tennessee had beaten Auburn they would have been the 1 and Gonzaga the 2.  I doubt anyone here would be upset about that scenario or calling shenanigans.  

 

[MAC_32]

Gonzaga is obviously in a different class than every other mid-major, but I think we do sometimes fail to recognize some of the struggles that mid-majors face in just scheduling alone.

The last power conference school to play a road game at Buffalo was South Florida - then a member of the Big East - in 2007.  12 years ago.  Undefeated #2 Pitt came here in 2006, faced an average Buffalo team, and won by 3 in a tight game.  UNC came here once like 20 years ago, it was a big deal at the time.  I think Rutgers came once around that time.  That's pretty much it in the last 20 years.  The opportunity just isn't there for the little guys.  Don't get me wrong, to be the best you have to beat the best, go on the road and do it, most of the mid-majors are garbage...but what incentive do the big schools have for even scheduling a "pretty good" mid-major?  If you win, who cares....if you lose, it's a bad loss.

A ranked Michigan State came to Bowling Green amidst the Heathcoat era. Got blown out. Said he'd never come back.

Michigan under Amaker came about a decade ago. Not a ranked caliber Michigan, but better than average. Lost. And said he'd never come back.

 

[MAC_32]

This is where I’m at with Gonzaga. Their resume is beating Zion Duke....in November, and being efficient at beating up teams in their conference that aren’t much better than division 1-aa teams. Playing in tight, competitive games make you better come NCAA tourney time. They haven’t had one in a long time and didn’t even play a close game in their conference tourney blowout loss. The Zags are 4-3 against Quad1 teams, 1-2 against ranked teams and haven’t played against a ranked team this calendar year. That hardly speaks the resume of a 1 seed. Winning a single game in November doesn’t define you as a 1 seed especially with your lasting impression is being blown out by a scrub team in their conference tourney. Maybe they are as good as most assume they are and cut down the nets or maybe they’re overrated and get bounced early. Congrats to them on getting a 1 seed but their resume for earning a 1 seed is questionable.

The WCC, and other mid-majors, are substantially better than you're indicating. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

The WCC, and other mid-majors, are substantially better than you're indicating. 

Why not give Buffalo a #1 seed, too, then?

 

[MAC_32]

Why not give Buffalo a #1 seed, too, then?

They should be higher than they are, but it also isnt a battle I am going to pick. Actually getting more of these teams into the show? That needs to be priority. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

They should be higher than they are, but it also isnt a battle I am going to pick. Actually getting more of these teams into the show? That needs to be priority. 

Not sure if applies this year, but the first rule should always be if you didn't finish .500 or better in conference, you don't get in.  That year the Big East put in 11 teams was stupid.  And again, my team benefited from that travesty.  And I still thought it was dumb.  

 

[Capella]

Why not give Buffalo a #1 seed, too, then?

You take some amazing logic leaps

 

[shuke]

You take some amazing logic leaps

Thought you were too busy for the internets today?

 

[TheIronSheik]

You take some amazing logic leaps

Thank you. 

 

[Steve Tasker]

You take some amazing logic leaps

I mean, it sounds good to me.

 

[TripleThreat]

anyone else going to this weekend's games?  I'll be in Columbia SC this year.  Got to see Virginia get beat in Charlotte last year, don't think I'll get a repeat this year. 

 

[Don Quixote]

St. Joe's parting ways with Phil Martelli.  Deserved, as they've been mostly mediocre for most of the past decade, but I did not think they would ever get rid of him.  That elite eight run gave him a lot of goodwill.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

St. Joe's parting ways with Phil Martelli.  Deserved, as they've been mostly mediocre for most of the past decade, but I did not think they would ever get rid of him.  That elite eight run gave him a lot of goodwill.

That was a fun team to watch

 

[TheIronSheik]

St. Joe's parting ways with Phil Martelli.  Deserved, as they've been mostly mediocre for most of the past decade, but I did not think they would ever get rid of him.  That elite eight run gave him a lot of goodwill.

Shocked.  I thought he was good until he was ready to leave.  I wonder if they asked him to step down and he said no?  I feel like they owed him that at least.

 

[Don Quixote]

Shocked.  I thought he was good until he was ready to leave.  I wonder if they asked him to step down and he said no?  I feel like they owed him that at least.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if they did not offer him the chance to retire after 20+ years.  I'm not sure how many years he had left on his contract -- assuming he had some years left, may as well make them fire you and take the money.