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Devil's Advocate
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NFL offers to reduce Vilma's suspension to 8 games (1 Viewer)
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Less, clearly. If he shows weakness now, all future judgements will be scrutinized even more.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see what Vilma does. How much $ does he make by getting half his season back?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yep. Even offering a reduction is an admission that their case against Vilma wasn't as air tight as they made it out to be.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
theres no point in him dropping the case now, no team is going to pick him after finding how bad his knee is.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Not necessarily. He could be just as guilty but the commish is rethinking the harshness of the sentence.But I agree that making the offer appears as weakness. Players that don't like their punishment will now see a defamation suit as a means of putting pressure on Goodell to lighten their sentence.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Ed Werder reported in that video link that Vilma has yet to accept the offer because he thinks he "has the upper hand" in the situation, and is anxious to go forward with the defamation suit in order to clear his name.
This is really interesting. If Vilma stands firm, does Goodell cave even more and eliminate the suspension entirely? He has to be at least a little nervous at this point.
This is really interesting. If Vilma stands firm, does Goodell cave even more and eliminate the suspension entirely? He has to be at least a little nervous at this point.
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flysack
Footballguy
It definitely weakens Goodell, but this, IMO, is a great thing.
Goodell is a perplexing guy. On the one hand you have to applaud how he's looking out for player safety (even if it's mostly because the league is scared of retired players' lawsuits), but on the other hand the guy is clear power-mad, imposing draconian penalties that's doing more harm than good. He needs to find some balance, and maybe this small victory on the part of a player will bring it.
Goodell is a perplexing guy. On the one hand you have to applaud how he's looking out for player safety (even if it's mostly because the league is scared of retired players' lawsuits), but on the other hand the guy is clear power-mad, imposing draconian penalties that's doing more harm than good. He needs to find some balance, and maybe this small victory on the part of a player will bring it.
NightStalkers
Footballguy
Sounds like they are protecting their source of information which was initially a player most likely. Vilma's lawsuit will force the league to show what information they have to back the suspension up. In doing so they would likely have to disclosed the information of who was involved. Like police/press protecting informants.
psychobillies
Footballguy
This whole thing is a joke, and a perfect example of how people just automatically believe whatever they are told. So instead of having 8,000+ pages of concrete evidence, now we might be talking about a couple of players who may or may not have held a grudge against the team? I hope he doesn't settle, and we find out what is really going on. This is clearly a major backtrack and change of position by Goodell.
Doug B
Footballguy
Most people though everything was cut-&-dried, and that everything was essentially settled. Not so.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
What about the rest of the suspensions? Will he reduce those as well or is Vilma a special case?
Doug B
Footballguy
For now, Vilma is a special case because he is the only one who has a personal lawsuit against Roger Goodell. IOW -- a lot of people think Vilma is suing the NFL, but he is actually suing the private individual Roger Goodell for defamation.
Didn't Warren Sapp mention on NFL Network a few months back that the snitch was Jeremy Shockey and get heat for it? Was this ever confirmed?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
With that type of back pedal speed, Goddell should rise up the draft boards rather quickly.
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Doug B
Footballguy
No - very much unconfirmed.
All but positively confirmed is that one of the major sources (if not the lone source) was former defensive QC assistant Mike Cerullo.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I don't think he's power mad at all. I think he just wants to preserve the brand of the NFL and he isn't shy about hammering players to do so. His efforts in that regard may be misguided. Who knows? But I don't see it as being related to his ego or for personal gain. If he believes that his being Darth Vader (from the older movies) will advance the NFL's interests, he's going to be Darth Vader and doesn't give a damn if the players don't like it. But at the same time, if indications are that his actions are hurting the league, I'd expect him to reassess and modify his tactics.So this reduction offer is puzzling and does raise questions about his motivations for making the offer.
identikit
Footballguy
I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
Avery
Footballguy
Don't suspensions get reduced all the time?
I could be wrong, but reducing a suspension seems to be a "normal course of action" and I don't think shows any weakness from Goodall.
Goodall shows his wrath and then his benevolence and thus elicits the loyalty and subjugation of his subjects... so let it be written, so let it be done.
I could be wrong, but reducing a suspension seems to be a "normal course of action" and I don't think shows any weakness from Goodall.
Goodall shows his wrath and then his benevolence and thus elicits the loyalty and subjugation of his subjects... so let it be written, so let it be done.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Vilma needs to take his medicine. He was obviously involved even after he knew they were warned. I have no sympathy for the Saints at all. What they did was to the detriment of the game, not just at the NFL level but all the way down to Pop Warner. Kids see this and get ideas about setting up their own bounty system. Pretty soon a kid is injured severely. What is that worth in terms of game checks? Vilma and the Saints did something very wrong and reckless. The repercussions of their actions have been severe. Good for them.
biju
Footballguy
I don't understand why everyone tries to vilify Goodell. Maybe he simply doesn't want this civil suit to overshadow the football year. I'm not saying the opposite isn't plausible or even true, but there are too many people on this board who simply have it out for "the man" and however that manifests. It's weird to me.
rizzler
Footballguy
LOL. Saints fans making up stories about reduced suspensions.Saints fans then making statements about how Goodell screwed them.Reality then whips out his mighty "the pen is mightier", and slaps them all across the face with da troof.I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. What they fail to comprehend is that the players union elected to give Goodell this power. So they have nobody to whine to except themselves. They are obviously welcome to play football in another league if the agreement THEIR UNION MADE isn't acceptable to them personally. Nobody really seems to have a problem though until it impacts them or a teammate.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I always say this in the Connery voice.LOL. Saints fans making up stories about reduced suspensions.Saints fans then making statements about how Goodell screwed them.I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
Reality then whips out his mighty "the pen is mightier", and slaps them all across the face with da troof.
rizzler
Footballguy
as it should be, Trebek.I always say this in the Connery voice.LOL. Saints fans making up stories about reduced suspensions.Saints fans then making statements about how Goodell screwed them.I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
Reality then whips out his mighty "the pen is mightier", and slaps them all across the face with da troof.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
An Album Coveras it should be, Trebek.I always say this in the Connery voice.LOL. Saints fans making up stories about reduced suspensions.Saints fans then making statements about how Goodell screwed them.I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
Reality then whips out his mighty "the pen is mightier", and slaps them all across the face with da troof.
psychobillies
Footballguy
LOL. Saints fans making up stories about reduced suspensions.So Chris Mortensen, Ed Werder and Adam Schefter are Saints fans?I believe this.Cripes, who to believe? From Albert Breer's Twitter:
Saints fans then making statements about how Goodell screwed them.
He did screw them.
Reality then whips out his mighty "the pen is mightier", and slaps them all across the face with da troof.
So you know the truth? Please provide the evidence(i.e. "troof") that Vilma paid $10,000 to hurt anybody.
rizzler
Footballguy
^^^^ When I read these "reports" of reduces suspensions, whilst the NFL says "Ummmm NO!", I can't help but picture:
An obese, scruffed man sitting in his warped basement computer chair, with a grease stained 2008 Drew Brees jersey on laughing to himself saying "I can't believe my forum post made headlines... snarf snarf"
An obese, scruffed man sitting in his warped basement computer chair, with a grease stained 2008 Drew Brees jersey on laughing to himself saying "I can't believe my forum post made headlines... snarf snarf"
psychobillies
Footballguy
OK. I'm still waiting for someone to make the case against Vilma. There have been many reports from the sports media verifying the offer. I am not suprised that the NFL spokesperson realizes how damaging it will be if Vilma rejects the offer. Sounds like damage control to me.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Jason Taylor said every team has some sort of bounty system..be it hard hits, sacks, INTs.. for dinner and drinks whatever. Taylor went on to say that some defensive players are making 2,3,4 million a season..do you really think 500-1000 dollars is going to motivate them any more or to play harder?As far as Goodell goes I think the NFL does not want anymore dirty laundry to be aired. Still think the NFL over-reacted as do the majority of the players who play the game.
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Doug B
Footballguy
The items I bolded are still far from settled points. Personally, I don't think Vilma's defamation suit or any of the other legal actions against the league and/or Goodell are cynical -- all of the suspended players believe they are truly innocent of what the league/Goodell has accused them of doing. If you, personally, were truly convinved you were innocent, why would you take your medicine?While most NFL fans have let "Bountygate" drift far into the rear-view mirror, there have been many chess moves over the past few months among the major players. Saints fans care more, obviously, and have stayed more on top of the legal battles and other salvos fired from both sides. From a Saints-fan viewpoint, this all is something that's playing out slowly but surely. Most other fans seem to have been thinking everything's been settled, agreed to, and nothing more was to be seen.
rizzler
Footballguy
SO, the NFL has said publicly that they never gave said offer. Vilma has said nothing.Yet, NFL is in damage control mode? Id be on your side if Vilma verified it... but he hasn't
psychobillies
Footballguy
That's understandable, but right now we have independent sources reporting one thing, and a source that is completely involved on one side saying something different.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Meh, if every team had it, why pick on such a high profile team as the Saints? The city of New Orleans was America's sweetheart, why them? Why now? Doesn't pass the sniff test.
Doug B
Footballguy
I think Werder and Mortensen had the right info here, but that everything had been below board. I'm staying tuned.
Doug B
Footballguy
I don't think any of the other teams had a Mike Cerullo to serve up "info" to the league on a silver platter.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm surprised to read you posting the story from this POV. I think it ran rampant and to believe that the Saints were the only team or that they were somehow the gatekeepers and helped destroy the game of football seems a bit of a stretch here. I'm not trying to pick a debate about it though Saber, I respect your opinion.
Grateful Parrot
Footballguy
I understand what he's saying, but in college we did it for a helmet sticker. It's not the prize, it's the recognition.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Probably because Greg Williams was recorded before the SF game. After that they had to do something.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Something may have gone down in that Vilma hearing or in chambers later....
Judge Ginger Berrigan is a known liberal (don't go nuts, I'm just saying this objectively) on the EDLA bench and she's pro-labor in a state that has the worst labor laws in the union. It's just possible that the tenor of the hearing did not go like the NFL's lawyers would have liked and it's just possible there may have been another conference in chambers in which the judge let known her leanings. Plus she's a New Orleans judge in a New Orleans courtroom and people here, judges included, well let's just say passion for the Saints and city runs high in that courthouse just as it does everywhere else between the River & the Lake.
Or maybe the NFL just doesn't know and they are just hedging their bets.
But I believe the report and don't believe the league's denials.
Judge Ginger Berrigan is a known liberal (don't go nuts, I'm just saying this objectively) on the EDLA bench and she's pro-labor in a state that has the worst labor laws in the union. It's just possible that the tenor of the hearing did not go like the NFL's lawyers would have liked and it's just possible there may have been another conference in chambers in which the judge let known her leanings. Plus she's a New Orleans judge in a New Orleans courtroom and people here, judges included, well let's just say passion for the Saints and city runs high in that courthouse just as it does everywhere else between the River & the Lake.
Or maybe the NFL just doesn't know and they are just hedging their bets.
But I believe the report and don't believe the league's denials.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I doubt the NFL just made something up. But maybe they did. But, why pick on the Saints after all the marketing they've been a part of and what the city has been through? Everybody in the country was rooting for them. Why not Jacksonville or some other marginal team? Why take the record breaking Saints singularly to task for something that supposedly "everybody does?" Why suspend one of the brightest young coaches in the game? Why attack a team you had on opening night last season? If anything, the NFL had a lot of reason NOT to go after the Saints if they were just one of 32 teams involved.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
While that is all speculation it sure sounds good. I am in the camp that would like to see the players suspensions taken down to something like 4 games and I also think Vilma should clear his name. Scott Fujita's account of the meeting with Goodell was very telling. "What are you doing Roger?" I got chills when I read that.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This is plausible perhaps. Funny that no other coaches from other squads that I know of have been recorded in this age of cell phones though.
psychobillies
Footballguy
It was recorded by a guy who was making a documentary about Steve Gleason.This is plausible perhaps. Funny that no other coaches from other squads that I know of have been recorded in this age of cell phones though.
Doug B
Footballguy
Supposedly, the NFL did not know about Williams' recorded speech when they initially broke Bountygate (March 2nd). Are you thinking maybe the league actually did know about it earlier than they let on?
rizzler
Footballguy
sure they did.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This needs to be cleared up. Per the New York Times:"According to a person briefed on the N.F.L.’s investigation, the league had not heard the audio before Thursday, but it had learned of the speech and its contents during the course of interviews while looking into the bounty scandal."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/sports/football/ruling-on-appeals-in-saints-bounty-case-is-signal-to-public.html?_r=1
They knew this was coming.
When people ask, why the Saints when [supposedly] this kind of thing has been going on for a long time elsewhere in the league, has been confirmed as going on elsewhere by other current players and past, and that it doesn't match the M.O. of real bounty programs of the sort that guys like Buddy Ryan and Jerry Glanville used to run?
Aside from the fact that despite their recent (very recent) successes, the Saints are still not one of the grand, mainstay, most influential franchises in league decision making...
...there is major litigation going on concerning concussions and the Pamphillon movie/documentary would be coming out, it concerns Gleason (ALS/Gehrig's victim) and it just so happens this guy is a very good filmmaker (look at some of his ESPN 30 For 30 stuff) and this film and its clips were going to be Exhibit No. 1.
People who are freshly seeing this are reacting like a jury would react.
No, guess what, the NFL does not want to collect every email, powerpoint presentation and Word document and paper file since 1919 on this subject, they want it to appear that it was 1. limited, 2. dealt with, and 3. warned against by the league in advance. The truth be damned.
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