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Different situation than in NJ. He's not the anointed one in STL.
I don't think it's a bad signing. I was just surprised to see you touting the mentor aspect.
I know his reputation, but Brodeur got a good look the last few days from STL brass, so I doubt they would have signed him if they thought he'd hinder Allen or be a cancer.
looking at the possession stats really brings home how lucky the Flames have been. I fear the glass slipper will not fit in the end...
Interesting that you also skipped last year's numbers when Seguin was at 8.1 ... which pales in comparison with Bergeron (20.1), Marchand (17.9) and even -- GASP! -- Reilly Smith (13.3) and Loui Eriksson (10.8). All of them were in the top 100 in the league. The numbers are down across the team this season for the most part, but look at some of the injuries and lineup shuffling that has happened. And 25 games hardly is the ideal sample size."completely ignoring" the other end?But hey, as long as you're scoring goals and completely ignoring the other end of the ice (and being a complete locker room cancer, but we don't need to get into that any more), all is well in the world.
the fancy stats seem to suggest otherwise.
His 5v5 Corsi that year was 20.6 while Bergeron's was 19.3
His 5v5 Corsi this year is 12.2, which is by far the best in Dallas. FWIW, Bergeron's is 21.5.
I don't think the possession stats represent their play, nor do I think their current standings do. somewhere in the middle, though that won't be a playoff spot IMO. I hope they stick with Hartley, big fan.
you're blaming the Stars issues on the only part of their team that's working. it's preposterous.Interesting that you also skipped last year's numbers when Seguin was at 8.1 ... which pales in comparison with Bergeron (20.1), Marchand (17.9) and even -- GASP! -- Reilly Smith (13.3) and Loui Eriksson (10.8). All of them were in the top 100 in the league. The numbers are down across the team this season for the most part, but look at some of the injuries and lineup shuffling that has happened. And 25 games hardly is the ideal sample size."completely ignoring" the other end?But hey, as long as you're scoring goals and completely ignoring the other end of the ice (and being a complete locker room cancer, but we don't need to get into that any more), all is well in the world.
the fancy stats seem to suggest otherwise.
His 5v5 Corsi that year was 20.6 while Bergeron's was 19.3
His 5v5 Corsi this year is 12.2, which is by far the best in Dallas. FWIW, Bergeron's is 21.5.
Look, I don't expect many people to agree with me, and that's OK. I have to listen to one of my co-workers (a Bruins diehard) every time Seguin scores a goal. Oddly enough, like you or Brasky pointed out, another co-worker was beating the same drum for Thornton for years and still does. It's an interesting parallel, even if we have the smaller sample size for Seguin.
I will admit, I probably went too far on the "completely ignore" comment. Seguin is not Kessel (another "superstar" who the Bruins "got rid of too early" -- Corsi REL of -0.4 this season, by the way) in that regard, but the Bruins aren't interested in playing fantasy hockey. Some people hate that, I'm OK with it. Different strokes. (What's interesting is that variations of Corsi and Fenwick have been used by the Bruins for years, dating all the way back to Sinden. All in how you value the numbers, I guess.)
Those Corsi stats for Seguin in 2013 are interesting. He had a great regular season, which normally would make his disappearance during the Cup run so much more mystifying. But again, we are led to believe there was fire that was a source of that smoke. Yes, I know, we've been over that as well. Some people don't think that should matter, but obviously it matters to the B's. (And FWIW, I've heard stories that the off-ice stuff went MUCH deeper than what was put out there at the time of the trade, but I've never been able to confirm any of that, so whatever.)
I've got Seguin on my FFA team this year, so keep scoring those goals! Meanwhile, the Bruins have a Stanley Cup, a Finals appearance and a Presidents Trophy in the last five seasons, so they must be doing something right.
Not looking good for Gordie. Howe suffered another major stroke yesterday and is in ICU.Katie Strang: According to statement from Gordie Howe's family, Howe is recovering at a "remarkable rate." Family wants to thank fans/friends for support
10:40pm - 4 Nov 14
Oh, no question the Stars defense is a dumpster fire. From the minute the trade was made, we heard how Seguin would be a much better fit in their open, offensive system. But the benefits of that system come at a price.Bill Brasky said:you're blaming the Stars issues on the only part of their team that's working. it's preposterous.Dickie Dunn said:Interesting that you also skipped last year's numbers when Seguin was at 8.1 ... which pales in comparison with Bergeron (20.1), Marchand (17.9) and even -- GASP! -- Reilly Smith (13.3) and Loui Eriksson (10.8). All of them were in the top 100 in the league. The numbers are down across the team this season for the most part, but look at some of the injuries and lineup shuffling that has happened. And 25 games hardly is the ideal sample size.Aaron Rudnicki said:"completely ignoring" the other end?Dickie Dunn said:But hey, as long as you're scoring goals and completely ignoring the other end of the ice (and being a complete locker room cancer, but we don't need to get into that any more), all is well in the world.
the fancy stats seem to suggest otherwise.
His 5v5 Corsi that year was 20.6 while Bergeron's was 19.3
His 5v5 Corsi this year is 12.2, which is by far the best in Dallas. FWIW, Bergeron's is 21.5.
Look, I don't expect many people to agree with me, and that's OK. I have to listen to one of my co-workers (a Bruins diehard) every time Seguin scores a goal. Oddly enough, like you or Brasky pointed out, another co-worker was beating the same drum for Thornton for years and still does. It's an interesting parallel, even if we have the smaller sample size for Seguin.
I will admit, I probably went too far on the "completely ignore" comment. Seguin is not Kessel (another "superstar" who the Bruins "got rid of too early" -- Corsi REL of -0.4 this season, by the way) in that regard, but the Bruins aren't interested in playing fantasy hockey. Some people hate that, I'm OK with it. Different strokes. (What's interesting is that variations of Corsi and Fenwick have been used by the Bruins for years, dating all the way back to Sinden. All in how you value the numbers, I guess.)
Those Corsi stats for Seguin in 2013 are interesting. He had a great regular season, which normally would make his disappearance during the Cup run so much more mystifying. But again, we are led to believe there was fire that was a source of that smoke. Yes, I know, we've been over that as well. Some people don't think that should matter, but obviously it matters to the B's. (And FWIW, I've heard stories that the off-ice stuff went MUCH deeper than what was put out there at the time of the trade, but I've never been able to confirm any of that, so whatever.)
I've got Seguin on my FFA team this year, so keep scoring those goals! Meanwhile, the Bruins have a Stanley Cup, a Finals appearance and a Presidents Trophy in the last five seasons, so they must be doing something right.
you're also looking at these numbers in vacuum when the fact is the Bruins have been a far better team (especially defensively) than the Stars. that plays into those numbers. it's preposterous.
regardless, Seguin could sit at the red line every time the puck leaves the offensive zone and he'd still be worth more to his team than what the Bruins got. and it will only continue to look worse as Seguin improves and Eriksson gets worse.
arguments that they had to move him may be legitimate though that is partially (if not all) their fault as well. and the bottom line is the return they got for a guy that rarely comes along was poor.
tout their cup all you want, this trade had no effect on it (happened well after) and will not help them moving forward.
Corsi measures shots for/shots against when player is on the ice vs when he is off the ice.
http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.com/2011/8/26/2385611/understanding-advanced-stats-part-four-relative-corsi-and-quality-of
Yea sad news. T&P to the Howe family and hockey world.Da Guru said:Not looking good for Gordie. Howe suffered another major stroke yesterday and is in ICU.Katie Strang: According to statement from Gordie Howe's family, Howe is recovering at a "remarkable rate." Family wants to thank fans/friends for support
10:40pm - 4 Nov 14
About ####### time, about two weeks two late. Somehow Umberger keeps getting sent out there too, I guess he's next on the luxury box rotation.JaxBill said:
was looking at who the worst Centers are in CorsiRel this year.
I agree on all that. I guess my only question is how individual Corsi stats are supposed to translate league-wide if they are so team-dependent. Not much more than a glorified plus-minus, in that regard.
Saw a tweet that said that IFMacDonald gets benched in addition to Vinny, the Flyers could have 13% of their cap (9.5 Mil) sitting in the press box.
That's why I'm confused as to what Corsi is supposed to indicate. How are you supposed to use it to accurately compare players on different teams?
Carrying is an understatement. They don't score, they have no chance to win, or even compete.
It's not a 1 on 1 game, there are other variables. There is context with any stat. You put Bergeron on Buffalo and while his number is probably still positive, it sure isn't going to be at 26 or whatever it is. As an aside, using arguably the best two way center in the league as a benchmark is silly in its own right. Don't need to be Bergeron to not be a liability defensively.
Absolutely. And as I mentioned earlier, a big reason why Seguin's Corsi was so high in 2013 probably was because he played most of the season with Bergeron (and Marchand). Andrew Ference was a +22 in Boston in 2011 and a -18 last year in Edmonton. It makes perfect sense why, but is he that drastically different a defenseman in just three seasons? Of course not.
He's certainly causing a lot more people than just you and Brasky to second-guess what Chiarelli was thinking. Strictly in hockey terms, yes, it's tough to argue. I just don't think it's as simple a swap of (elite) talent for talent as most make it out to be.
In place of Krejci? I don't see how you could have continued with Krejci, Seguin and Bergeron and not have someone out of place, whether it's playing on a third line or out of position (as they did with Seguin on Bergeron's wing, where he wasn't comfortable). And now throw Soderberg into that mix.
Murray needs to ship some guys out. Make a trade to break up this stupid momentum that has them winning every night.
Flyers hockey!! I've seen mites on ice with better hockey sense than these buffoons.
pretty easy to find room for a guy capable of a half goal per game. not to mention a team that is now goal starved.
Canada still trying to figure out who Kuemper is?
