Obama: Worst President Ever? (1 Viewer)

[drummer]

This is for libertarian tim:

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

 

[timschochet]

This is for libertarian tim:

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

I've read that before. Some very good points.

And, Ludwig Von Mises is the sort of old fashioned libertarian I can relate to. Like Milton Friedman and Hayek. They bear very little relation to the nuts who call themselves libertarians these days.

 

[rockaction]

Reagan

All you have to do to know why: just read any jon-mx. That's how bad Reagan was.

Did you even live through the Reagan years? Do you have any idea where we were as a country and how he lifted us up? He is one of the most beloved Presidents of all-time for a reason. Only hardcore leftist don't think Reagan was a great president.

Yes I did. I remember the SNL crisis, he being gutless towards the AIDS crisis, Nancy's stupid "Just Say No" campaign while the inner cities were being flooded with drugs..

Oh and his spending. Lot's of spending.

You seem to be oblivious to the country which Reagan inherited. One which the US was a waning power. One with double-digit unemployment. High interest rates and high inflation. Long gas lines. A Cold War which we seemed to be losing. A world which nuclear war seemed like a real possibility. Reagan restored America. He brought back pride and confidence. He rid is of obscene tax structures which 70 plus percent rates were stifling growth. He united America and made her great again. He put fear into the Soviet empire and gave the push that lead to its demise. He lead the world to unprecedented peace and economic boom.

I looked in the U.S. Master Tax Guide (used to work in an accounting office back in the day). This is true. The tax rates under Nixon, Ford, and Carter were astonishing to me. The obvious reply is deficits, but those tax rates were obscene.

To be fair though, they were just as high under Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson, during which years the economy boomed for the most part. How would you explain this?

We had some bad years back then too. Kennedy lowered rates which were close to 90 percent and helped revitalized the economy.

Yeah, just looked. Around that time, he dropped the top rate from 90-91% to 70%

You could also argue for demographic changes, production and population booms, war efforts, and monetary policy

(though I'm out of my bridge on the latter of the four).

 

[flapgreen]

Bottom 5

 

[rockaction]

This is for libertarian tim:

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

I've read that before. Some very good points.

And, Ludwig Von Mises is the sort of old fashioned libertarian I can relate to. Like Milton Friedman and Hayek. They bear very little relation to the nuts who call themselves libertarians these days.

Huh? I consider myself a Hayekian and Friedman-ite.

I don't see many nuts citing them, really, aside from Michelle Bachmann, who reads Hayek on the beach.

 

[timschochet]

This is for libertarian tim:

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

I've read that before. Some very good points.

And, Ludwig Von Mises is the sort of old fashioned libertarian I can relate to. Like Milton Friedman and Hayek. They bear very little relation to the nuts who call themselves libertarians these days.

Huh? I consider myself a Hayekian and Friedman-ite.

I don't see many nuts citing them, really, aside from Michelle Bachmann, who reads Hayek on the beach.

I didn't know she could read.

 

[rockaction]

This is for libertarian tim:

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488

I've read that before. Some very good points.

And, Ludwig Von Mises is the sort of old fashioned libertarian I can relate to. Like Milton Friedman and Hayek. They bear very little relation to the nuts who call themselves libertarians these days.

Huh? I consider myself a Hayekian and Friedman-ite.

I don't see many nuts citing them, really, aside from Michelle Bachmann, who reads Hayek on the beach.

I didn't know she could read.

George Will made gentle but good sport of her for beach reading list. It was kinda classic Will, understated yet pretty sharp in its cut.

eta* Or maybe it was Glenn Reynolds. Either way, funny.

 

[flapgreen]

GWB locked this one up years ago

What did Obama do that was much different than Bush?

Killed Bin Laden, turned the stock market around, saved the auto industry and revitalized housing prices. He also legalized weed, permitted gays to serve openly in our military and has not blocked the rights of gays to marry each other.

lol

 

[butcher boy]

Clinton is a pimp. He shagged a chick in the oval office with a cigar. Shame on anyone who doesn't have him on a list of greatest presidents.

 

[Ballstein]

It's gotta be George Bush

 

[jamny]

Obama will be remembered as our first black President and for Obamacare (good or bad)

Not much else.

He really could have been so much more.

Gotta say I agree with this, he's not been effective and a bit of a let down. Don't know if it's his fault as much as it is politics today.

No where near any list as worst ever though.

A lot has to do with current politics but he came in with a divisive attitude. I gave him a good 2 years to sway me, hoping he could make a difference. There's just so much you can take hearing how the Republicans had the keys to the car and drove it into the ditch so now it's our turn. How is that constructive? Everyone was responsible for the collapse, from the Dems to Republicans and the rich pulling scams and the less off buying more than they could afford. There was no need to point fingers. We needed a uniter and got a divider. He was unqualified for the position and it showed.

He's not the worst ever. He's an average, middle of the road President who had an opportunity for greatness and failed.

 

[timschochet]

I agree that he's been average- but as for this "opportunity for greatness"- I'm not really seeing it. Liberals who think Obama had an opportunity for greatness wanted him to force progressive ideas through- basically use the Democratic majority during the first two years to just shove a lot of things through that they wanted. He did a little of that, but not enough to suit them (and ACA especially was watered down- progressives wanted single payer.) Basically, the liberal notion of a "great" Obama is somebody who refused to compromise at ALL.

The conservative notion of a great Obama is somebody who would have worked with conservatives to a much greater extent- giving up most of his ideas in favor of conservative ideas- no health care program, no stimulus package, increase defense spending, keep taxes low for the middle and upper classes. Basically, the conservative notion of a "great" Obama is somebody who surrenders who conservatism.

Given these points, it's hard to see where Obama's "opportunity for greatness" would have come from.

 

[jamny]

Given these points, it's hard to see where Obama's "opportunity for greatness" would have come from.

Of course you can't. I can't either. Neither can Obama obviously.

We would have known it if we saw it though.

 

[FlapJacks]

George H. W. Bush faced some of the most serious foreign policy issues of my lifetime, including but not limited to:

1. The fall of the Soviet Union

2. The fall of the Berlin Wall and Russian control of Eastern Europe

3. Tiannammen Square

4. The Iraq invasion of Kuwait

I think he handled these situations very well, taking action against Iraq (though carefully not overthrowing Iraq and thus upsetting the Sunni-Shiite balance in favor of Iran) and for the first three, doing very little other than watching- I'm not at all sure that Bush's predecessor in office would have been able to just watch- Reagan would have gotten us more directly involved, with possibly long term negative consequences.

I give Bush Sr. an A+ for foreign policy. And I also think that Obama is very much like him- cautious, reserved, and thoughtful. I expect that in future years historians will consider these two among our greatest foreign policy Presidents.

He also faced the S&L crisis and economic hit that came with and guided us out of recession and into another boom area

 

[FlapJacks]

Obama is the most polarizing president of my lifetime. Constantly playing the blame game. I have a hatred for government as a whole, but I have never seen so much disagreement and vitriol between the two parties. And Obama is the enzyme that creates much of it. He is a ####### jack wagon.

So you believe that Obama is the one responsible for polarized politics? Are you suggesting that conservatives would be willing to work with Obama if he were only to offer a little compromise?

Polarizing politics have been around for centuries, but I find Obama to be a major practitioner of it

 

[FlapJacks]

Reagan

Why? Sounds like a Rolo Tomassi vote (Rolo Tomassi, in L.A. Confidential, is the mythical character that always "gets away with it"). But this would be kind of like if I voted for B. Clinton as the worst. I mean, if you're coming from the left, you've got Nixon, GWB, GHWB, etc.

I grew up in the Reagan 80's. There is nothing during that time that I thought he was the best POTUS in my lifetime. There still isn't one.

I thought we were voting on worst, though. Regardless, won't push too hard if he's your least favorite. Nobody agrees with me about the Elder Bush.

Worst is subjective. Although GWB takes the cake here, even though in my lifetime that should go to Nixon, but I was too young to really judge that.

Seeing Reagan on the stand not recalling anything about Iran-Contra is one of the low points in American history.

That was awful, but Clinton perjuring himself and Gore asking someone to define what the "is is" is pretty damn bad if we're getting historical. Or, what the hell did Gore do during that trial? Something ridiculous.

The difference is people died during Iran-Contra.

Who died during Iran-Contra? How did our government cause them to die? Or are you simply referring to our support of the Contras against Nicaragua?

You know better than this.

link?

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

 

[FlapJacks]

I agree that he's been average- but as for this "opportunity for greatness"- I'm not really seeing it. Liberals who think Obama had an opportunity for greatness wanted him to force progressive ideas through- basically use the Democratic majority during the first two years to just shove a lot of things through that they wanted. He did a little of that, but not enough to suit them (and ACA especially was watered down- progressives wanted single payer.) Basically, the liberal notion of a "great" Obama is somebody who refused to compromise at ALL.

The conservative notion of a great Obama is somebody who would have worked with conservatives to a much greater extent- giving up most of his ideas in favor of conservative ideas- no health care program, no stimulus package, increase defense spending, keep taxes low for the middle and upper classes. Basically, the conservative notion of a "great" Obama is somebody who surrenders who conservatism.

Given these points, it's hard to see where Obama's "opportunity for greatness" would have come from.

It worked for Clinton....

 

[The General]

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

Oh come on.

 

[FlapJacks]

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

Oh come on.

just saying, I wouldn't be the first to make the "wag the dog" accusation. Many journalists from across the political spectrum made that same speculation

 

[jon_mx]

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

Oh come on.

The Climton's were the first to make the case that Saddam had WMDs.

 

[Daywalker]

Obama will be remembered as our first black President and for Obamacare (good or bad)

Not much else.

He really could have been so much more.

Gotta say I agree with this, he's not been effective and a bit of a let down. Don't know if it's his fault as much as it is politics today.

No where near any list as worst ever though.

A lot has to do with current politics but he came in with a divisive attitude. I gave him a good 2 years to sway me, hoping he could make a difference. There's just so much you can take hearing how the Republicans had the keys to the car and drove it into the ditch so now it's our turn. How is that constructive? Everyone was responsible for the collapse, from the Dems to Republicans and the rich pulling scams and the less off buying more than they could afford. There was no need to point fingers. We needed a uniter and got a divider. He was unqualified for the position and it showed.

He's not the worst ever. He's an average, middle of the road President who had an opportunity for greatness and failed.

Dividing would have been going after the giant fraud Wall Street pulled off. Was justified but would have extended the recession and further exposed the world to all the shenanigans going on here. Instead he pointed some fingers in the right direction. Boo hoo. Could not have been a tamer response.

 

[chauncey]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Reagan was the first divorced President and brought fake Hollywood anti-American family values to the forefront of American life.

Disgusting.

 

[rockaction]

Reagan was the first divorced President and brought fake Hollywood anti-American family values to the forefront of American life.

Disgusting.

Oh no, divorce and Hollywood bait.

If this came from the right, you'd say your own comment must have come from a KooK.

 

[jon_mx]

Reagan was the first divorced President and brought fake Hollywood anti-American family values to the forefront of American life.

Disgusting.

That is very KKKooooKKKie of you.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Jimmy Carter has been the worst President in my lifetime and also the worst ex-President. Obama has been below average but he's certainly not the worst ever.

 

[17seconds]

Jimmy Carter has been ... the worst ex-President.

wat

Most active 20th century ex-President. Will always have haters but his stock has gone up a lot.

 

[jon_mx]

Jimmy Carter has been ... the worst ex-President.

wat

Most active 20th century ex-President. Will always have haters but his stock has gone up a lot.

Carter is an extreme nice man who gives a lot to the community. But will always be remember as a terrible president.

 

[drummer]

Jimmy Carter has been ... the worst ex-President.

wat

Most active 20th century ex-President. Will always have haters but his stock has gone up a lot.

Carter is an extreme nice man who gives a lot to the community. But will always be remember as a terrible president.

I fart better than this.

 

[pantherclub]

Reagan

All you have to do to know why: just read any jon-mx. That's how bad Reagan was.

Did you even live through the Reagan years? Do you have any idea where we were as a country and how he lifted us up? He is one of the most beloved Presidents of all-time for a reason. Only hardcore leftist don't think Reagan was a great president.

I am not a hard core lefty and I dont think Ronnie was all that good. Its funny you look at some of his major accomplishments and if you applied it to today people would go bananas. Immigration, taxes etc. Revisionist history I say

 

[pantherclub]

I grew up in the Reagan 80's. There is nothing during that time that I thought he was the best POTUS in my lifetime. There still isn't one.

I thought we were voting on worst, though. Regardless, won't push too hard if he's your least favorite. Nobody agrees with me about the Elder Bush.

Worst is subjective. Although GWB takes the cake here, even though in my lifetime that should go to Nixon, but I was too young to really judge that.

Seeing Reagan on the stand not recalling anything about Iran-Contra is one of the low points in American history.

That was awful, but Clinton perjuring himself and Gore asking someone to define what the "is is" is pretty damn bad if we're getting historical. Or, what the hell did Gore do during that trial? Something ridiculous.

The difference is people died during Iran-Contra.

Who died during Iran-Contra? How did our government cause them to die? Or are you simply referring to our support of the Contras against Nicaragua?

You know better than this.

link?

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

wtf?

Are there really people in the US of A that actually think like this? Is this a Glenn Beck fan or more of a El Rushbo guy? Who the hell can twist this like the post above?

 

[drummer]

Reagan

All you have to do to know why: just read any jon-mx. That's how bad Reagan was.

Did you even live through the Reagan years? Do you have any idea where we were as a country and how he lifted us up? He is one of the most beloved Presidents of all-time for a reason. Only hardcore leftist don't think Reagan was a great president.

I am not a hard core lefty and I dont think Ronnie was all that good. Its funny you look at some of his major accomplishments and if you applied it to today people would go bananas. Immigration, taxes etc. Revisionist history I say

jon Hannity was just reiterating Reagan talking points.

 

[pantherclub]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

 

[jamny]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

 

[drummer]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

How is this going to be resolved? GWB isn't POTUS.

 

[jamny]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

How is this going to be resolved? GWB isn't POTUS.

 

[drummer]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

How is this going to be resolved? GWB isn't POTUS.

All one has to do is look at the state of Texas.

 

[pantherclub]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93704

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer confirmed today that the president's position has not changed.

"The president is opposed to the legalization of marijuana, including for medicinal purposes, and he strongly supports the current federal law that's in place," Fleischer said today.

Marijuana is listed as a Schedule 1 narcotic under the federal Controlled Substances Act. According to the DEA, "Schedule 1 is reserved for the most dangerous drugs that have no recognized medical use."

 

[jamny]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93704

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer confirmed today that the president's position has not changed.

"The president is opposed to the legalization of marijuana, including for medicinal purposes, and he strongly supports the current federal law that's in place," Fleischer said today.

Marijuana is listed as a Schedule 1 narcotic under the federal Controlled Substances Act. According to the DEA, "Schedule 1 is reserved for the most dangerous drugs that have no recognized medical use."

"I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose," Bush said in the fall of 1999.

That's back in 99. Isn't this the same view Obama has now?

 

[drummer]

Pretty sure Obama had very little to do with legalizing marijuana. Last I checked there are only 2 states where it it legal, I'd imagine you can thank the people of WA & CO for that. Now if Obama passed a federal law legalizing it in all 50 states then he should get his face on a dollar bill.

Never mind, I see this was already addressed.

He has instructed the feds not to get involved. Thats pretty big. What would GWB have done? I bet stuck his nose in it.

OK, I'll bet you he wouldn't have.

How much?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93704

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer confirmed today that the president's position has not changed.

"The president is opposed to the legalization of marijuana, including for medicinal purposes, and he strongly supports the current federal law that's in place," Fleischer said today.

Marijuana is listed as a Schedule 1 narcotic under the federal Controlled Substances Act. According to the DEA, "Schedule 1 is reserved for the most dangerous drugs that have no recognized medical use."

"I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose," Bush said in the fall of 1999.

That's back in 99. Isn't this the same view Obama has now?

Has the state of Texas legalized yet?

 

[quickhands]

actually, during the Lewinsky scandal, the US foreign policy became much more hawkish towards Iraq. We even linked Saddam and Bin Laden during the Clinton era. Bombed Iraq...and made a strong case for Iraqi WMDs....One might say that the Lewinsky scandal fallout helped to build up the mentality that led to the Iraq war...

Oh come on.

The Climton's were the first to make the case that Saddam had WMDs.

Clinton didn't "make the case" saddam mustard gassed the kurds

 

[jamny]

"I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose," Bush said in the fall of 1999.

That's back in 99. Isn't this the same view Obama has now?

Has the state of Texas legalized yet?

What does that have to do with GWB?

 

[drummer]

"I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose," Bush said in the fall of 1999.

That's back in 99. Isn't this the same view Obama has now?

Has the state of Texas legalized yet?

What does that have to do with GWB?

What does GWB have to do with Texas?

 

[jamny]

"I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose," Bush said in the fall of 1999.

That's back in 99. Isn't this the same view Obama has now?

Has the state of Texas legalized yet?

What does that have to do with GWB?

What does GWB have to do with Texas?

Who's on first?

Third base!

 

[FlapJacks]

Jimmy Carter has been ... the worst ex-President.

wat

Most active 20th century ex-President. Will always have haters but his stock has gone up a lot.

Jimmay's post Presidency has lost its luster in the last dozen years....

 

[jon_mx]

Reagan

All you have to do to know why: just read any jon-mx. That's how bad Reagan was.

Did you even live through the Reagan years? Do you have any idea where we were as a country and how he lifted us up? He is one of the most beloved Presidents of all-time for a reason. Only hardcore leftist don't think Reagan was a great president.

I am not a hard core lefty and I dont think Ronnie was all that good. Its funny you look at some of his major accomplishments and if you applied it to today people would go bananas. Immigration, taxes etc. Revisionist history I say

I think immigration is a net positive and tax increases along with spending cuts in all areas are a necessary part of getting our budget under control. I know what Reagan did and I think today's Republicans don't have a realistic direction.

 

[timschochet]

I think pot should be legalized but it stuns me that people consider this a significant issue in terms of evaluating a Peesident.

 

[pantherclub]

I think pot should be legalized but it stuns me that people consider this a significant issue in terms of evaluating a Peesident.

states rights, peoples rights etc, I think it is telling

 

[ArbyMelt]

I'm not taking either side, but an interesting article, and it is from the Huff Post which def isn't a GWB supporter.

Income inequality much worse under Obama than Bush

From over a year ago, so I would be inclined that this trend got a lot worse last year.

Of course income inequality is greater under Obama, because the economy is better. Poor people basically make the same amount whether the economy is good or bad. The incomes of rich people, however, will fluctuate by millions or more.

The growing gap between the super elite and everyone else has gotten out of hand. How is this being questioned?

The number of people on food stamps is at an all-time high with more and more people dependent on the government (disability claims have gone way up). The stock market is going crazy benefiting rich people. That is why there is a huge income inequality. The economy has been stagnant.

 

[Rove!]

Because fawning adoration is what makes a great President?

worked for JFK...