Obamacare: Obama just straight up lied to you, in your face (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

1) free everything else is obviously an exaggeration.. And I'm not resentful, I actually help the needy whenever I can.. Don't paint me with that broad brush, you don't know me. I'm sure I help more that most, and probably more than you...

2) I didn't "think" anything, other than it could be true.. I was doubtful, that was obvious in my first post...("I hope this is not true...") Don't put words in my mouth..

3) again, I didn't think it was being allocated based on race.. I know there are people who work in such social services situations that do have prejudices based on race.. I've seen it myself.. There are prejudices both ways.. I've seen volunteers with social services complain about black people and Mexicans, And I've actually seen a black woman get fired for giving more consideration and benefits to blacks than white or Latino...

You thought it was true, and you thought it likely enough to be true that you posted it. Don't duck it now by saying you were doubtful. If you were doubtful you could have taken ten seconds to run a Google search.

And I didn't mean you were resentful of the poor, I meant that you resented the government assistance you think they get. Exaggerating the level of assistance is actually pretty good evidence of that.

I specifically said "I hope this is not true".. How does that support your claim that I thought it was true?

I've said repeatedly that I assist DSS. I give, and I volunteer.. Don't paint me with that broad brush.. I'm not a liberal, but I'm definitely not against all social policies.. Why would I give, and volunteer if I resented it? What do you do to help? Maybe you're the one that needs to be judged.. "gee, ummm.. well you see what happened was.. I spent all my money on the new Iphone, but I did vote for the guy who said he'd make the rich people pay, I'm not rich, so, you see...."

 

[timschochet]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

Yes. That's pretty similar.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

If you're so confident, how much money are you willing to put on it?

 

[tommyboy]

back to how f'd up Obamacare is

As a software architect, team leader, enterprise IT consultant, and expert witness, I have been studying and explaining why IT projects succeed or (more commonly) fail for nearly 20 years. The factors for failure are remarkably consistent, as is the path that failing IT projects typically take. In one sense, it make my job easier, since a relatively simple checklist can usually uncover the fundamental issues. On the other hand, I find that clients -- when I review projects that are still alive (vs. those already in litigation) -- often don't want to hear what I have to say. Gets a bit depressing at times, but there you go.

So, let's look at all the failure factors that have been revealed so far in the Healthcare.gov debacle.

I could provide links to all these, but lots of people have been doing that for us, so I'll just summarize:

[0] A badly-written law, based on unsustainable economic assumptions, multipiled into 11,000+ pages of regulations. (Ashton's Law)
[1] The wrong people and organizations.
[2] The wrong organizational structure (Conway's Law).
[3] Changing and politically deferred requirements.
[4] A big bang approach (instead of an evolutionary one) (Gall's Law).
[5] Trying to fit "five years of development into two years".
[6] Doing an incredible poor and late job on software quality assurance, including (but not limited to) testing.
[7] Going live before the system was ready.
[8] Trying to fix the system while keeping it (mostly) up and (mostly) running.
[9] Adding manpower to a late project (Brooks' Law).

It is hard under the best of circumstances to bring a massive IT project to a successful launch (mostly on-time, mostly on-budget); making all these errors along the way made failure inevitable. I'm sure there are plenty more than these, but these are more than enough to kill a project.

Most of the failed IT projects I've examined (between 150 and 200) have been after-the-fact, when the matter has gone into litigation. I have reviewed hundreds of thousands of pages of documents (and done directed searches on millions of pages), tracing the history of the projects and attempting to identify where things went wrong.

So, what can you expect next?

There are two basic courses that a project such as this takes at this point: oscillation or off-line.

Oscillation is what happens when the developer continues to push ahead, attempting to fix/stabilize a live system. The system may improve marginally, but then new problems are uncovered and/or introduced by the on-going changes. I have seen projects go like this for months, with the essential fixes perpetually 4 to 8 weeks away, and the system never really behaving acceptably.

Off-line is the wiser move. The system is taken down for the time being, and an effort is made to make it acceptable.

At this point, those who are wise will insist on more, not less, time for development and more, not less, time and resources for software quality assurance, including testing. They may even recommend pulling the plug altogether, or at least going back to something close to the start.

Such people are rarely heeded, because their news is invariably bad and usually unacceptable to the Powers That Be. The temptation will exist to instead use short-cuts and quick fixes to rush it back into production -- and at that point, you almost always are back to the oscillation/off-line decision again.

Now. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI) gave Obama lots of cover on the Sunday talk shows by recommending that Healthcare.gov be taken down for an extended period (Rogers said six months) until at least the security problems are worked out.

I'm not sure that's going to happen, at least not yet. At the least, I think that the Healthcare.gov effort will push ahead until Thanksgiving weekend (end of November, remember?), and then they will go off-line, burying the news on the ultimate Friday-for-news-dumps.

At that point, they will have two choices: try to fix the existing systems (or major sections thereof), or start a new, highly simplified system from scratch, with manual support, and they slowly graft it into the necessary back-end systems. This will take months; frankly, it could actually take a year or two.

If, however, they do not pull the plug then (or before then), then expect to see the oscillation continue: some modest improvements, accompanied by a rash of new problems (or old ones resurfacing). Usage numbers for the website will steadily drop -- actual non-Medicaid enrollment will continue to be very low -- and the Administration with its enablers and flacks will continue to try to find a way to blame this disaster on anyone but themselves. Ultimately, the site will either persist in low functionality or will be halted altogether.

The key lesson is this: there is no royal road to software. Good intentions, noble causes, and political fervor count for nothing; if anything, they may undermine the project by causing those involved to accept or even demand short-cuts and shoddy workmanship "in a good cause" -- which is how the Obama Administration got into this mess in the first place.

there's more, read it this guy knows a little bit about this stuff

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/344731.php

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

You're a scumbag for even saying that about someone you don't know... I ate lunch in the park with some poor black people.. They invited me to their home..

 

[timschochet]

I read somewhere that President Obama is planning to impose a dictatorship and seize all guns and turn is into a homosexual Islamic fascist Communist state.

I hope it's not true...

 

[Joe T]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

University of Chicago economist John Cochrane predicts that, because of this overreach, "Obamacare could actually increase the number of people without insurance, because you are not allowed to keep (consumer) or sell (insurance company) simple cheap insurance."

"ouch"

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I read somewhere that President Obama is planning to impose a dictatorship and seize all guns and turn is into a homosexual Islamic fascist Communist state.

I hope it's not true...

No, he told me that was a republican spun lie the other day when we ate lunch in the park and he invited me to the whitehouse to eat dinner with his family.. (the lunch in the park is special because he is black and I'm white)

 

[timschochet]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

You're a scumbag for even saying that about someone you don't know... I ate lunch in the park with some poor black people.. They invited me to their home..

I'm glad you choose to help people out in personal life. But based on your expressed views posted in this thread and others I stand by what I wrote.

 

[Tau837]

And there are several cost containment measures in the ACA. You can ignore them but that does not mean that they don't exist.

The IPAB, excise taxes, and bundled payments are just figments of the liberal imagination according to this board. I got tired of that fight three years ago.

CMS projects we will spend $621B more through 2022 than we would have without Obamacare. So exactly how effective are those cost containment measures?

From National Health Expenditure Projections 2012-2022:

By 2022, the ACA is projected to reduce the number of uninsured people by 30 million,add approximately 0.1 percentage-point to average annual health spending growth over

the full projection period, and increase cumulative health spending by roughly $621

billion.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

You're a scumbag for even saying that about someone you don't know... I ate lunch in the park with some poor black people.. They invited me to their home..

I'm glad you choose to help people out in personal life. But based on your expressed views posted in this thread and others I stand by what I wrote.

There is nothing I've written here or anywhere else that supports your "undeserving black poor" narrative.. You are defaming me without cause.. Show some proof if you're going to make that claim about someone.. I've never attributed blacks to poor, or either to undeserving. You're a POS for suggesting I have, especially with all I do for my local community... I am very offended..

 

[tommyboy]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

 

[Andy Dufresne]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

 

[Joe T]

Starting a list of common misconceptions that have been repeated over and over about Obamacare.

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

"More people will have health insurance after the ACA is implemented."

"It is the emergency rooms driving up health care costs."

"The ACA actually brings medical costs down."

"Obamacare will save people from bankruptcy and financial ruin."

 

[Joe T]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

Is this another one of those onion things?

 

[TheIronSheik]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

Awesome.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I read somewhere that President Obama is planning to impose a dictatorship and seize all guns and turn is into a homosexual Islamic fascist Communist state.

I hope it's not true...

Wait. Is this true?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

Please explain how that relates.. Opposing ACA isn't akin to revolution..

 

[TheIronSheik]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

Please explain how that relates.. Opposing ACA isn't akin to revolution..

He's talking about how the rules have been amended along the way.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

Please explain how that relates.. Opposing ACA isn't akin to revolution..

In Animal Farm after the animals take over, they adopt Seven Commandments of Animalism.

The original Seven Commandments were:
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

After the pig Napoleon takes over, he rewrites the Commandments to suit his needs, guessing correctly that nobody would fight him over the changes.

 

[matttyl]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

University of Chicago economist John Cochrane predicts that, because of this overreach, "Obamacare could actually increase the number of people without insurance, because you are not allowed to keep (consumer) or sell (insurance company) simple cheap insurance."

"ouch"

Exactly, it's like they are no longer going to sell cars at Corolla and Civic prices, and only offer cars at Mercedes and BMW prices (even though they by and large did the same things before and after), and wonder why they aren't selling more cars than before.

 

[timschochet]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

I want to know how the name "Ebony Jackson" didn't trigger his radar

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

I want to know how the name "Ebony Jackson" didn't trigger his radar

Yeah. "Jackson" should have been a clear giveaway.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

I want to know how the name "Ebony Jackson" didn't trigger his radar

That kind of sounds like a racist generalization.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

And how that relates to "undeserving black poor" is what? Because you have still failed to make the connection..

If I don't want someone giving out government benefits intended to help the poor, in any way that is prejudice against a particular skin color, I now think any blacks that are poor are undeserving..? I will not retract my insults, because you are obviously an idiot based on the conclusion you have drawn..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed (with sheets)
5. No animal shall drink alcohol (to excess)
6. No animal shall kill any other animal (without cause)
7. All animals are equal (but some animals are more equal than others)

Please explain how that relates.. Opposing ACA isn't akin to revolution..

In Animal Farm after the animals take over, they adopt Seven Commandments of Animalism.

The original Seven Commandments were:
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

After the pig Napoleon takes over, he rewrites the Commandments to suit his needs, guessing correctly that nobody would fight him over the changes.

gotcha

 

[Hang 10]

Starting a list of common misconceptions that have been repeated over and over about Obamacare.

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

"More people will have health insurance after the ACA is implemented."

"It is the emergency rooms driving up health care costs."

"The ACA actually brings medical costs down."

"Obamacare will save people from bankruptcy and financial ruin."

"You can apply over the phone in only 25 minutes."

 

[StrikeS2k]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

If you're so confident, how much money are you willing to put on it?

Bump. Don't make me ping Gobbler to come in here!!!!

 

[matttyl]

Starting a list of common misconceptions that have been repeated over and over about Obamacare.

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

"More people will have health insurance after the ACA is implemented."

"It is the emergency rooms driving up health care costs."

"The ACA actually brings medical costs down."

"Obamacare will save people from bankruptcy and financial ruin."

"You can apply over the phone in only 25 minutes."

Obamacare will save the average family $x in premiums.

 

[The Commish]

Government Opening Free Gas Stations in Poor NeighborhoodsOct 29, 2013
First 'Obamastation' Debuts in Detroit, Seventy Planned Nationwide

As the battle over Obamacare rages in Washington, the White House is quietly using a little known provision of the law to roll out a nationwide network of free gas stations for minorities and the poor.

According to a report in The Detroit News this morning, the administration is using its authority under the Affordable Care Act to "improve transportation routes to hospitals" to dispense gasoline free of cost in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

The $2 billion-a-year program aims to distribute 40 million gallons of free gasoline each year through 70 new gas stations constructed in major metropolitan areas. The Department of Health and Human Services (DHS) will be responsible for operating the network, whose first station opened yesterday in Detroit.

"It's not something we're publicizing very much, for obvious reasons," explains Dori Salcido, assistant DHS secretary for public affairs. "But under the law we are well within our rights to offer this service, and we think it's good public policy.

"How are people supposed to get to the doctor's office if they don't have gas in their cars? Health insurance is worthless if you can't make your appointment. This is just another fine example of government stepping in and solving big problems."

<a href="http://cas.criteo.com/delivery/ck.php?cb=000000" target="_blank"> <img src="http://cas.criteo.com/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=8923" border="0" alt=" "/> </a>
No Gas for YouAlthough some developing oil-rich nations like Venezuela and Indonesia subsidize gasoline for the poor, the practice has never before been tried in the United States. The plans are proving controversial with some taxpayers who are loathe to see their money go to subsidize others.

"So basically I'm being punished for not living in the ghetto," says Colin Blair, a white person from the affluent Detroit suburb of Farmington Hills. "I have three kids and a mortgage. Life isn't cheap for me either. I could use some free gasoline too."

An investigation into the station's operations, however, reveals that Blair is unlikely to be able to use the service.

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

The Obamastations scandal was uncovered by Nolan Finley , a conservative Detroit News columnist widely lauded for his groundbreaking exposé on Obamaphones. Finley says the blatant racial bias in the program is only one of its many outrageous aspects.

"The stations have Obama campaign logo on them and giant photos of the president," he explains. "He's trying to buy votes ahead of the midterm elections. This is something you normally only see in third world countries. I've never been more scared for our democracy."

http://dailycurrant.com/2013/10/29/government-opening-free-gas-stations-in-poor-neighborhoods/

I hope this is not true...

wtf?

The Daily Currant - The Global Satirical Newspaper of Record

I was unfamiliar with the source.. Obviously an onion wannabe..

Reality is that it's not hard to believe this could happen.. Free gas in poor communities (I'm not sure I'd have a problem with that under certain circumstances) and then employees at the stations giving preferential treatment to minorities (I'd have a problem with that)..

Sorry....the only people who would even entertain something like this being true are the people who WANT it to be true.

Is it really that hard to believe it could happen? There are already free homes, phones, food, weekly checks, healthcare, rides to work/doctors.. free gas would be a drop in the bucket...

For me? Yes...incredibly hard It's probably not hard at all to believe it for the intended audience. Shooting fish in a barrel most of the time.

I've seen similar situations myself..

What SIMILAR situation have you "seen" that is close to the article you posted?

 

[Sarnoff]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

CH believes everything he reads on facebook. You believe everything some paid spokesman says on radio or TV. Seems similar to me.

 

[tri-man 47]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

I'd actually side with CH on this. I would understand if you said he fell for a societal stereotype regarding blacks ..maybe even that he "believed" in the stereotype that they are poor and need/take assistance. But stating his mindset to be that the black poor are undeserving of assistance isn't an appropriate extension. Splitting hairs? You might think so. But I understand why CH is upset with your assumption about how he feels. As Clint might say: "Undeserving's got nothin' to do with it."

 

[Slapdash]

It's very very hard to believe it could happen if you understand how the safety net actually works instead of how Rush Limbaugh tells you it works. And it's even harder to believe that it could happen without explicit legislation granting the authority to do so that would make headlines for months.

That hasn't stopped people from lining up to "get theirs" before.

If you're referring to the article you posted, in the first case there was actually something to "get" in that case, which you'd see if you clicked through to the AP article instead of relying on infowars.com to provide your news, and the second case it appears to be a ID scam with only a tenuous link to the government. Not sure either case is anything like thinking the government is providing free gas for black people (but not white people) under the Affordable Care Act.

What are you trying to prove? All I'm saying is that there are clearly people out there that believe there's free stuff to be had from the government and are willing to line up to get it.

Just like there are people who believe there are free iPads, GAP jeans, etc. to be had from private companies for forwarding emails.

Do you have a point?

Or the people that think there is free healthcare, housing, phones, food, legal representation, child care, etc... O, wait... nevermind...

Like you?

Is it really that hard to believe it could happen? There are already free homes, phones, food, weekly checks, healthcare, rides to work/doctors.. free gas would be a drop in the bucket...

 

[timschochet]

Carolina Hustler, when I wrote that you were a believer in the undeserving black poor, that was not a personal insult. You responded by calling me a scumbag and a POS, both of which ARE personal insults. I'd like you to stop insulting me, please.

Now you have challenged me to give some evidence of my claim. Earlier this morning, you posted what turned out to be a fake article which included the following quote:

"Supposedly access to the station is determined by income," says Ebony Jackson, manager of the first Obamastation. "But it's pretty unrealistic to do an income check on each and every driver. So what we do is basically let all the black people pump for free, and charge all the white people the market rate."

You then wrote: I hope this is not true.

When I mocked you for believing that such a story might be true, your response was:

So you gonna tell me that this type of prejudice doesn't happen?

I will leave it up to others reading this to decide if I am correct for labeling you as a believer in the undeserving black poor. I stand by what I wrote.

I'd actually side with CH on this. I would understand if you said he fell for a societal stereotype regarding blacks ..maybe even that he "believed" in the stereotype that they are poor and need/take assistance. But stating his mindset to be that the black poor are undeserving of assistance isn't an appropriate extension. Splitting hairs? You might think so. But I understand why CH is upset with your assumption about how he feels. As Clint might say: "Undeserving's got nothin' to do with it."

That's fine. We'll agree to disagree. Nonetheless, I don't think my interpretation was a personal insult.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

 

[timschochet]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

If you're so confident, how much money are you willing to put on it?

Bump. Don't make me ping Gobbler to come in here!!!!

Please don't bring him up.

I can't bet you on this one, Strike, because there's no means to prove victory. Even if the government asserted that the website was "fixed", and I believed it, you wouldn't. And there would always be enough critics to dispute it that neither of us could ever win such a wager.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I love that Carolina Hustler actually thought that story might be true, especially with the part about only giving black people free gas and denying whites. So classic.

Seriously, how is that any different from you believing the Obamacare website will be fixed by the end of this month?

Of course it is.

Well it's similar in the idea that you're both pretty gullible.

Maybe. But if so my gullibility is based on my confidence in the skill of techies. His gullibility is based on his belief in the undeserving black poor.

If you're so confident, how much money are you willing to put on it?

Bump. Don't make me ping Gobbler to come in here!!!!

Please don't bring him up.

I can't bet you on this one, Strike, because there's no means to prove victory. Even if the government asserted that the website was "fixed", and I believed it, you wouldn't. And there would always be enough critics to dispute it that neither of us could ever win such a wager.

If it's not obviously fixed or not fixed it's a draw. Really not that difficult. Or we could let Gobbler determine the winner.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

Could you please provide us with a list of approved TGunzsources?

 

[matttyl]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

And the Chicago Tribune.....where Obama was a senator? Just because someone leans left or right doesn't mean the facts they say are false.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

Could you please provide us with a list of approved TGunzsources?

 

[timschochet]

I want to get back to ways to fix ACA. A few days ago I offered what I think might be a pretty simple solution, even though it will end up costing the taxpayer more money, and that is this: if your existing policy is cancelled, and your only choice is a much more expensive policy with a much higher deductible, and you are below a certain income level (excludes upper middle class and above), then you would be entitled to some sort of subsidy, rebate, or tax deduction- one way or another, the difference owed would be covered.

I realize this will make the program cost much more. But if the current program is unacceptable, and if getting rid of it is not going to happen, and if going to single payer is not going to happen, then this seems to be the most reasonable of alternatives.

 

[tommyGunZ]

matttyl - let's get your prediction clearly on the record.

Is it your opinion that fewer Americans will have health insurance 3 years from now due to the ACA?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

Could you please provide us with a list of approved TGunzsources?

Wacko conservative and liberal blogs are not reliable sources Andy.

 

[TheIronSheik]

matttyl - let's get your prediction clearly on the record.

Is it your opinion that fewer Americans will have health insurance 3 years from now due to the ACA?

I'm just hoping the ACA website is up and running in 3 years. Aim low. And realistic.

 

[tommyboy]

obama denies he ever said that:

President Barack Obama told his enthusiastic supporters Monday night that he never promised what video recordings show him promising at least 29 times.

The videos show Obama promising 300 million Americans that “if you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period.”

But that’s not what he really said, Obama announced Monday in a speech to about 200 Organizing for Action supporters, gathered at the St. Regis hotel in D.C.

“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,” he told Obamacare’s political beneficiaries and contractors.

That claim is not supported by his videotaped statements, which don’t include any mention of his new “if it hasn’t changed” exception.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnC4ETtO
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/#ixzz2jnBsTj2k

video of his previous comments: http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=

Is this another one of those onion things?

no this really happened:

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-denies-saying-you-can-keep-your-health-care-plan-29-times

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

And the Chicago Tribune.....where Obama was a senator? Just because someone leans left or right doesn't mean the facts they say are false.

The Tribune link doesn't contain an estimate. All it has is a statement from a professor about something that "could" happen.

The other two articles are also editorials (from hilariously partisan websites) that suggest the possibility of n increase in the number of uninsured- and one of those admits that the number of uninsured will still decrease long term. TGunz asked for a reliable. reasonable estimate of the number of uninsured going up. He hasn't gotten one yet, which makes sense because it's far too early for such a thing.

There's plenty wrong with Obamacare implementation at the moment. No reason for the critics to make up stuff too.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd love a link to the estimates you've seen that suggest more people will be uninsured after the ACA.

Ok, here are a few.....

http://news.heartland.org/editorial/2013/11/04/biggest-failure-obamacare-increasing-number-uninsured

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/24/will-obamacare-leave-us-with-more-people-uninsured/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-health-20131031,0,1815563.story

"Human Events - Powerful Conservative Voices" and "Heartland - promoting free market solutions to social and economic problems" romoting

And the Chicago Tribune.....where Obama was a senator? Just because someone leans left or right doesn't mean the facts they say are false.

The economist quoted in the Tribune editorial didn't predict more folks would be insured, he said it "could" happen.