Obesity and Ozempic and more (5 Viewers)

[matttyl]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Meanwhile, we know obesity is pretty bad, and diet/exercise seldom accomplish long term weight loss

Wait, what?

Diet and exercise don't work?

Not sure if this is sarcastic, but unfortunately, diet and exercise seldom succeed in real world conditions.

This is primarily due those that adopt diet and exercise don't fully adjust their lifestyle for the long term. They get to their desired goal and go back to the bad habits I am assuming, resulting in the viscous cycle of weight gain/loss....

Maybe. I'm sure there are many reasons weight re-gain occurs. But agree that it's fluid.

 

[Sand]

I'm sure people would reasonably weigh the side effects

To me, "reasonably" is doing A LOT of work here.

How so exactly?

I think it's common for people to unreasonably weigh the side effects. Or what Terminalxylem has written on this page.

Unreasonably as overly downplay side effects or overstate side effects?

 

[odin33]

It feels like a cheat code, with a cost. Always been a big guy, often a really big guy. Unfortunately I let it get to the point where I was diagnosed as a T2D. Both parents had weight loss surgery (1 stapled and 1 banded) so genetics aren't helping- no excuse, my metabolism sucks- still no excuse, and when your as big as I was everything is a struggle and I was gassed at the end of nearly every day- I was a lazy, self loathing, unmotivated POS, with zero willpower.

Started at 360 lbs (I'm 6'1). Ankles, knees, hips, hell the whole body ached on a daily basis. Dealt (still dealing) with depression, HBP, working long hours at a desk job (although I use that as an excuse), ate like garbage, drank too much, never truly exercised, I was poisoning my home life taking it out on those I cared about most because I was miserable. I was quite literally spiraling down the drain and I wasn't pumping the brakes to stop it.

I finally came to the realization that I'm 40+ years old and if I keep going, I'm going to check out a lot sooner than I wanted, and miss seeing and doing a lot of things with my kids. I did make some lifestyle changes- eating a ton healthier, cut back on the booze- certainly not a saint in this category still, almost 0 fried foods, cut out 98% sugar unless I'm cooking with it. But I've still have more work to do- namely more/sustained exercise. Coming up on two years now and I'm headed in the right direction, after a hiccup with the meds mentioned below. Present day I'm yo-yoing right at 300, not great by any estimation, but between being off the meds for 5 months and having to reramp up (still ramping) I lost a year. A1c and all test show I'm within acceptable normal ranges. Technically not a diabetic anymore. More like medicated non-diabetic.

I've been on Ozembic and now Mounjaro almost full time since September of '22. Due to continued shortages I was off the meds (Ozembic) from October of last year until February when I was able to get Mounjaro. It is so frustrating driving all over the damn city to try and track down this stuff. Insurance not approving Mounjaro insisting I use Ozembic which didn't exist. Pharmacy acting like they are filling only to say oops sorry.
- Gained 20 pounds back during that time, but did eventually plateau.
- appetite definitely came back- slow at first, but seemed to always increase (still far less that I was at though).
- now building back up to levels where I was seeing results but Mounjaro is now hard to get as well. Ugh
- having gone through this though has shown that it is in fact the drug doing it's job, and not the changes I've made.
- talked to the Dr. when changing scripts about long term prognosis. It's basically on me. His comment was: you saw what going off the meds will do. If I change enough of my behavior to do it sans script there's no reason I can't come off it.

For me it was the crutch I needed to get myself to a better place physically and emotionally. YMMV

 

[Doug B]

Unreasonably as overly downplay side effects or overstate side effect?

It can go either way, though lately overstating side effects strikes me as more common. Evaluating side effects without data -- meaning reliance on "people I know" or "person I read about" items, impressions, etc. -- can lead to either outcome (understate/overstate).

 

[belljr]

My biggest problem is Ive had the same ****ty diet since I was a kid

Lots of hot dogs, fish sticks, kraft mac and cheese, chips ahoy cookies, tasty cakes cheese puffs, acme soda growing up. When I was 7-8 late 70s and was at the ball field all the time it was hot dogs and candy. Sure my parents would force some grean beans down my gullet but I've had the same bad habits for almost 50 years.

Yes slowly I'm made some changes etc but man you go down a road it's tough sledding some times

You develop those early bad habits and don't realize how ingrained it is. It was never a huge issue because I worked out like a maniac

 

[Terminalxylem]

unfortunately, diet and exercise seldom succeed in real world conditions.

Not sure if you see patients, but if you do see patients, do you tell them this?

I counsel patients regarding diet and exercise, and reassure them when they become frustrated at the difficulty losing weight. I emphasize they shouldn't let perfect be enemy of the good, and any dietary improvement/activity increase/weight loss is better than none.

And I've never prescribed a weight loss drug. But I am good friends with two physicians who at one point in their lives ran weight management clinics. Neither are huge fans of bariatric surgery, and both favor behavioral modification, first and foremost.

All that said, I also know the data, and can recognize futility when I see it.

And FTR, I've never been overweight, exercise compulsively and have radically adjusted my diet (giving up meat and almost all animal products) as an adult.

ETA Mom was morbidly obese, and died of diabetic complications. And sister is headed down that same path.

 

[Grahamburn]

This is primarily due those that adopt diet and exercise don't fully adjust their lifestyle for the long term.

Right. But - this is not something "everyone can do." In fact, barely anyone can do it -- and this is known with certainty thanks to long term data collection. You have to go by the large-sample numbers, not by the best results of a very few exceptions.

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Right. But - this is not something "everyone can do." In fact, barely anyone can do it -- and this is known with certainty thanks to long term data collection. You have to go by the large-sample numbers, not by the best results of a very few exceptions

Barely anyone where? Because it seems to be do-able in other places.

This is my issue with how it's clearly going to go with these drugs. If this is a tool, to be used in conjuction with diet and exercise, I am in favor of these drugs, assuming they aren't dangerous (an assumption, to be clear).

But they aren't. People will lose weight, and be less unhealthy than they were before. And that's great, but not the same as being healthy

I’m not so sure. In general, attaining a healthy weight is preferable to remaining obese, no matter how you get there.

It’s one of the reasons I’m able to hold my nose at the horrific trends common in very low carbohydrate diets, which explicitly avoid some very healthy foods.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

 

[Terminalxylem]

You can be "right" but still be condescending.

Not about something people can't help (innate difficulty with risk assessment), IMHO. That would be like condescension over the need to breathe air, or the inability to see ultraviolet light.

Of course they can help it. It's the "they're fundamentally deficient in math" and can't help themselves that is condescending. Maybe they have a different opinion? Or put different values on risk? Not everyone that has a different opinion is stupid.

Not sure what to say.

If I can provide data that every 5 unit increase in BMI (when obese) increases all cause mortality by 30%, along with failure rates of diet/exercise, and you still insist meds are an unacceptable alternative (not you, personally, people), for fear of unsubstantiated/unknown harm they may cause, you aren’t looking at the numbers objectively.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Meanwhile, we know obesity is pretty bad, and diet/exercise seldom accomplish long term weight loss

Wait, what?

Diet and exercise don't work?

Not sure if this is sarcastic, but unfortunately, diet and exercise seldom succeed in real world conditions.

Seldom Succeed vs Best Option or safest path???
There seems to be a disconnect here IMHO, you make it sound like it's not worth trying the more organic path
Nobody said it was easy to make lifestyle changes
I'm an alcoholic, quite a functioning alcoholic but one nonetheless, lifestyle changes are really hard
That doesn't mean they should not even be attempted or assumed that most will fail

-Once you break the addiction of sugar, which constantly needs replenishing, once you break way from it, things get easier
As an example, fat doesn't make you fat and I don't get excited when folks talk about a low fat diet, the body needs fats so starving it is not wise.
A lot of folks don't realize what they can actually eat when they cut out a lot of precessed foods.

Good stuff, thanks for posting this as you evoke responses from many of us, no worries Terminal

Au contraire, I absolutely think diet and exercise are critical for maintaining a healthy weight. Have you not seen my posts in nearly every diet and exercise thread?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

Probably a bargain relative to future healthcare expenditures, if one were unable to attain a healthy weight by behavioral modification, not to mention the value quality of life increases with weight loss.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

In the cycling, climbing, and long distance running world, plenty. Though much fewer age 50+

ETA Seems like a half dozen guys in the run a 10K thread volunteered vO2 maxes over 50, which is 95th+ percentile in middle age. Most of those guys are probably close to single digit body fat %

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

In the cycling, climbing, and long distance running world, plenty. Though much fewer age 50+

ETA Seems like a half dozen guys in the run a 10K thread volunteered vO2 maxes over 50, which is 95th+ percentile in middle age. Most of those guys are probably close to single digit body fat %

For sure. The serious endurance athletes and legit climbers are gonna be hella fit. I’m more of your above average 55 year old dad that takes decent care of himself.

 

[FairWarning]

One thing that doesn’t get enough attention is in the last 30-40 years, both parents work. Instead of having a sit down meal, both parents grab what is convenient. Add in the kids that have school functions, and they are eating on the run also. We are a product of You can have it all - it doesn’t look so great now.

 

[matttyl]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

Probably a bargain relative to future healthcare expenditures, if one were unable to attain a healthy weight by behavioral modification, not to mention the value quality of life increases with weight loss.

Maybe, maybe not. A 30 year old on it for 20 years would total roughly a quarter of a million dollars (though I understand at some point a likely generic will be made and could be less expensive, we’ll see).

 

[notoriousbill]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

 

[SWC]

according to my apple watch i have 7491 steps so far today so boom put that in your pipe and smoke it ozompic take that to the bank bromigos

 

[DA RAIDERS]

according to my apple watch i have 7491 steps so far today so boom put that in your pipe and smoke it ozompic take that to the bank bromigos

I walk a lot at work. I averaged 11.8K steps in 2023. It’s down a bit this year. 10.8K. But summer is the busiest time and will make up for it. If my knee allows it.

 

[SWC]

i am not sure what i average i just got this here watch from my health insurance company and i get money for making all the pretty rings light up every day but i know i walk between 8 to 10 miles a day between morning and night walks and then whatever i get in between ill update this at the end of the day but i think im down right now because of my back surgery and only getting about 3 and a half miles per walk instead of 4 to 5 now take that to the walk talk bank bromigo

 

[DA RAIDERS]

i am not sure what i average i just got this here watch from my health insurance company and i get money for making all the pretty rings light up every day but i know i walk between 8 to 10 miles a day between morning and night walks and then whatever i get in between ill update this at the end of the day but i think im down right now because of my back surgery and only getting about 3 and a half miles per walk instead of 4 to 5 now take that to the walk talk bank bromigo

On your phone, Click on health. The heart symbol. It gives you a summary of various activities. On of those is steps. It gives you daily, weekly, monthly, 6 mo and ytd. Is also has last years average if you scroll down a bit

 

[Doug B]

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is not "engage in fitness and nutrition" or "get started on improving fitness and nutrition". You're correct -- lots of people do that.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is, rather, "go from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise". Statistically, from a top-of-the-mountain view of millions of obese people, barely anyone goes from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise. Even obese people who start off in earnest and with every intention to see the process through.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

Very good. To solve the societal problem of obesity, it is necessary to deal with people who avoid hard work like the plague -- that's not going to change. Without meeting people where they are, any society-wide plan of attack necessarily fails. Presently, there are means to make the work much less hard. Over time, these means will improve and get much cheaper. Better mousetraps will be built and employed, and the general obesity problem will be better mitigated against.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

Probably a bargain relative to future healthcare expenditures, if one were unable to attain a healthy weight by behavioral modification, not to mention the value quality of life increases with weight loss.

Maybe, maybe not. A 30 year old on it for 20 years would total roughly a quarter of a million dollars (though I understand at some point a likely generic will be made and could be less expensive, we’ll see).

A single hospital stay can quickly add up to 10s of thousands of dollars, if not more. While not a foregone conclusion health problems can be avoided, seems pretty likely over a lifetime.

In 2021, people with large employer private insurance coverage who had an obesity or overweight diagnosis had an average of $12,588 in total annual health costs, which is more than double the $4,699 in health spending for those with no obesity or overweight diagnosis on their health insurance claims for that year.

Even if it costs an extra 5 grand a year to attain healthy weight on the meds, isn’t improved quality and quantity of life worth it?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Arm ergometer is pretty tough, but I’d trying swimming while your leg recovers.

 

[notoriousbill]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Apple will only calculate VO2 if you do an outdoor exercise (walk, run, etc). I dont know why but that's what i figured out over time.

I know exqactly what machine you are talking about for the arms. My Planet Fitness has one. lol I may have to try it out one day

 

[matttyl]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

Probably a bargain relative to future healthcare expenditures, if one were unable to attain a healthy weight by behavioral modification, not to mention the value quality of life increases with weight loss.

Maybe, maybe not. A 30 year old on it for 20 years would total roughly a quarter of a million dollars (though I understand at some point a likely generic will be made and could be less expensive, we’ll see).

A single hospital stay can quickly add up to 10s of thousands of dollars, if not more. While not a foregone conclusion health problems can be avoided, seems pretty likely over a lifetime.

In 2021, people with large employer private insurance coverage who had an obesity or overweight diagnosis had an average of $12,588 in total annual health costs, which is more than double the $4,699 in health spending for those with no obesity or overweight diagnosis on their health insurance claims for that year.

Even if it costs an extra 5 grand a year to attain healthy weight on the meds, isn’t improved quality and quantity of life worth it?

Maybe, and even likely. But keep in mind that more often than not the individual doesn’t see those costs that you list above. They are covered by insurance policies (which your link specifically points out). If they hit their max out of pocket at $5k, the other ~7,600 in medical spending the obese person has is a cost shared by everyone. And either that individual person will need to come out of pocket $12k to pay for the drug (if its not covered by insurance), or everyone with that insurance will have an extra ~$5k in shared medical costs and everyone’s costs go up.

I’m just stating that the financial costs of all of this shouldn’t be overlooked.

 

[massraider]

I’m not so sure. In general, attaining a healthy weight is preferable to remaining obese, no matter how you get there

Re-read what I said. I agree with you.

 

[Grahamburn]

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is not "engage in fitness and nutrition" or "get started on improving fitness and nutrition". You're correct -- lots of people do that.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is, rather, "go from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise". Statistically, from a top-of-the-mountain view of millions of obese people, barely anyone goes from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise. Even obese people who start off in earnest and with every intention to see the process through.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

Very good. To solve the societal problem of obesity, it is necessary to deal with people who avoid hard work like the plague -- that's not going to change. Without meeting people where they are, any society-wide plan of attack necessarily fails. Presently, there are means to make the work much less hard. Over time, these means will improve and get much cheaper. Better mousetraps will be built and employed, and the general obesity problem will be better mitigated against.

Gotcha.

I also suspect significant amounts of the negativity being lobbed at these drugs is resentment from said fitness community. Those people work really hard and pay attention to their diets to achieve their goals. I imagine it's frustrating to see someone who doesn't have that level of dedication or commitment get the same results with minimal effort.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Arm ergometer is pretty tough, but I’d trying swimming while your leg recovers.

Not yet. Can’t take the torque on the joint yet when I kick. I did the ski erg. It sucked. Which is a good thing. But my upper body is tired after 3 days of focus.

I did manage to do VERY light RDLs

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Apple will only calculate VO2 if you do an outdoor exercise (walk, run, etc). I dont know why but that's what i figured out over time.

I know exqactly what machine you are talking about for the arms. My Planet Fitness has one. lol I may have to try it out one day

I wonder why it didn’t track my skiing. I gotta figure this out.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

You can be "right" but still be condescending.

Not about something people can't help (innate difficulty with risk assessment), IMHO. That would be like condescension over the need to breathe air, or the inability to see ultraviolet light.

Of course they can help it. It's the "they're fundamentally deficient in math" and can't help themselves that is condescending. Maybe they have a different opinion? Or put different values on risk? Not everyone that has a different opinion is stupid.

Not sure what to say.

If I can provide data that every 5 unit increase in BMI (when obese) increases all cause mortality by 30%, along with failure rates of diet/exercise, and you still insist meds are an unacceptable alternative (not you, personally, people), for fear of unsubstantiated/unknown harm they may cause, you aren’t looking at the numbers objectively.

The bias to make obesity a moral judgment seems almost impossible to overcome in some people. If aliens from the planet Melmac were to arrive tomorrow and just review the data on obesity, they'd have no trouble concluding that "eat less, move more" has utterly failed as medical guidance to curb obesity. The alternative to medical interventions are huge government controls on the food environment like the incredibly unpopular initiative to ban super size sodas. But dozens of such programs. It would never fly.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is not "engage in fitness and nutrition" or "get started on improving fitness and nutrition". You're correct -- lots of people do that.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is, rather, "go from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise". Statistically, from a top-of-the-mountain view of millions of obese people, barely anyone goes from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise. Even obese people who start off in earnest and with every intention to see the process through.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

Very good. To solve the societal problem of obesity, it is necessary to deal with people who avoid hard work like the plague -- that's not going to change. Without meeting people where they are, any society-wide plan of attack necessarily fails. Presently, there are means to make the work much less hard. Over time, these means will improve and get much cheaper. Better mousetraps will be built and employed, and the general obesity problem will be better mitigated against.

Gotcha.

I also suspect significant amounts of the negativity being lobbed at these drugs is resentment from said fitness community. Those people work really hard and pay attention to their diets to achieve their goals. I imagine it's frustrating to see someone who doesn't have that level of dedication or commitment get the same results with minimal effort.

I’m one of those guys putting in the work. That aspect doesn’t bother me .

IMHO diet is 90%. Is it healthier to weigh 30#s less and still eat garbage? yes. But long term I think the bad diet will make decisions for you as would the weight.

 

[Doug B]

I imagine it's frustrating to see someone who doesn't have that level of dedication or commitment get the same results with minimal effort.

Was there ever similar animus against bariatric surgery? I don't know one way or the other, but I thought it might be comparable to Ozempic regarding what people in the fitness community might opine.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

The other thing I don't understand about the debate about these drugs is that people are acting like they're promising people the ability to eat whatever they want and lose weight. GLP1 inhibitors encourage weight loss simply by making people eat less. It's not magic. We want obese people to eat less. Do we really care if they have to suffer to do it? So that we can respect them more? It's just weird that we're still having these debates.

 

[TripItUp]

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

however, much more prevalent in the USA

 

[Doug B]

We want obese people to eat less. Do we really care if they have to suffer to do it? So that we can respect them more?

Zooming out the lens a bit, it seems like a lot of improvements in human living initially get met with resistance like this. At least lip service resistance, if nothing else.

When indoor plumbing became widespread in American cities, there were no doubt people in the country talking about how "City folks are soft! Why, they just pour water out right in their kitchen. We still work for our water -- got a perfectly good creek 100 paces yonder and a pile of buckets. Why, them city folks won't even go outside to use the bathroom!"

Or take improvements in labor-saving household cleaning devices. How many 1960s mothers-in-law heaped scorn on their son's wives for having "all day to lay around" because they just threw their clothes and dishes into machines?

This tendency is probably as old as humanity. I'll bet back in the Olduvai Gorge, Og talked smack about Thak being too soft to wrestle an aurochs to the ground by the horns. Instead, Thak took the lazy route and used a flint spear!

 

[culdeus]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Apple will only calculate VO2 if you do an outdoor exercise (walk, run, etc). I dont know why but that's what i figured out over time.

I know exqactly what machine you are talking about for the arms. My Planet Fitness has one. lol I may have to try it out one day

They use the gps as a data point to validate you are really moving.

 

[massraider]

The other thing I don't understand about the debate about these drugs is that people are acting like they're promising people the ability to eat whatever they want and lose weight. GLP1 inhibitors encourage weight loss simply by making people eat less. It's not magic. We want obese people to eat less. Do we really care if they have to suffer to do it? So that we can respect them more? It's just weird that we're still having these debates.

And then no one is being encouraged to eat well.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I imagine it's frustrating to see someone who doesn't have that level of dedication or commitment get the same results with minimal effort.

Was there ever similar animus against bariatric surgery? I don't know one way or the other, but I thought it might be comparable to Ozempic regarding what people in the fitness community might opine.

200# people weren’t/aren’t getting bariatric surgery. Apples to oranges. Any animus is going to be directed at people like my kid’s best friend’s mom. Probably weighs 160ish 5’8” or so. On ozempic to lose weight. Lame because it makes the drug harder to get for someone that needs it.

 

[brun]

The other thing I don't understand about the debate about these drugs is that people are acting like they're promising people the ability to eat whatever they want and lose weight. GLP1 inhibitors encourage weight loss simply by making people eat less. It's not magic. We want obese people to eat less. Do we really care if they have to suffer to do it? So that we can respect them more? It's just weird that we're still having these debates.

And then no one is being encouraged to eat well.

Not sure about others but for my son to qualify for 1 of these drugs he also had to agree to see a dietitian as well as someone about exercise (not sure what they're called). I suspect that discussions with the dietitian include some encouragement to eat well.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Apple will only calculate VO2 if you do an outdoor exercise (walk, run, etc). I dont know why but that's what i figured out over time.

I know exqactly what machine you are talking about for the arms. My Planet Fitness has one. lol I may have to try it out one day

They use the gps as a data point to validate you are really moving.

I track my skiing on other apps. When I remember. So the gps part works. Just gotta get the v02max parr to work.

 

[RCon]

Not sure about others but for my son to qualify for 1 of these drugs he also had to agree to see a dietitian as well as someone about exercise (not sure what they're called). I suspect that discussions with the dietitian include some encouragement to eat well.

Exorcist.

 

[SWC]

i am not sure what i average i just got this here watch from my health insurance company and i get money for making all the pretty rings light up every day but i know i walk between 8 to 10 miles a day between morning and night walks and then whatever i get in between ill update this at the end of the day but i think im down right now because of my back surgery and only getting about 3 and a half miles per walk instead of 4 to 5 now take that to the walk talk bank bromigo

On your phone, Click on health. The heart symbol. It gives you a summary of various activities. On of those is steps. It gives you daily, weekly, monthly, 6 mo and ytd. Is also has last years average if you scroll down a bit

I tried this but have no idea how to get to the average stuff maybe i havent been using it long enough i am only in month 1 take that to the bank brocacho

 

[culdeus]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Apple will only calculate VO2 if you do an outdoor exercise (walk, run, etc). I dont know why but that's what i figured out over time.

I know exqactly what machine you are talking about for the arms. My Planet Fitness has one. lol I may have to try it out one day

They use the gps as a data point to validate you are really moving.

I track my skiing on other apps. When I remember. So the gps part works. Just gotta get the v02max parr to work.

FDA makes them only allow this when telling your watch you are walking or running.