Obesity and Ozempic and more (2 Viewers)

[AAABatteries]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[AAABatteries]

Seems like that one is somewhat outdated:

List of countries by obesity rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point is, this is a human nature problem and not just America. Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

ETA - for average BMI - should have specified that.

 

[brun]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

I remember years ago working with a guy from Somalia. I'd say he was about 5'7", 150lbs. The 1st time he went back to visit, his friends teased him about how much weight he had put on.

 

[Doug B]

Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

Socio-cultural conditions. What's the state of smoking in 2024 Europe, generally? Still socially acceptable, or being stamped out furiously?

Not that smoking is healthy ... it's just one of many potential conditions that work against obesity in population-level numbers.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And no, an obese individual shouldn't worry too much about future health care strain they'll incur by losing weight, and living longer.

Of course not. For the individual, it does make a lot of sense on the surface. That individual, though, will also have to balance the actual financial cost as well. We’re talking $1k a month at least (though possibly 4x that depending on how I’m reading Ozempic’s cost weekly vs monthly).

Insurance will only pick that cost up in full once an individual hits their max out of pocket. At that point it’s a cost picked and shared by everyone (who has coverage with that carrier).

So while they may not want/need to think about their future health care strain, they may want to consider their future financial situation (as one should with any large “purchase” like this). Like it or not, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

Probably a bargain relative to future healthcare expenditures, if one were unable to attain a healthy weight by behavioral modification, not to mention the value quality of life increases with weight loss.

Maybe, maybe not. A 30 year old on it for 20 years would total roughly a quarter of a million dollars (though I understand at some point a likely generic will be made and could be less expensive, we’ll see).

A single hospital stay can quickly add up to 10s of thousands of dollars, if not more. While not a foregone conclusion health problems can be avoided, seems pretty likely over a lifetime.

In 2021, people with large employer private insurance coverage who had an obesity or overweight diagnosis had an average of $12,588 in total annual health costs, which is more than double the $4,699 in health spending for those with no obesity or overweight diagnosis on their health insurance claims for that year.

Even if it costs an extra 5 grand a year to attain healthy weight on the meds, isn’t improved quality and quantity of life worth it?

Maybe, and even likely. But keep in mind that more often than not the individual doesn’t see those costs that you list above. They are covered by insurance policies (which your link specifically points out). If they hit their max out of pocket at $5k, the other ~7,600 in medical spending the obese person has is a cost shared by everyone. And either that individual person will need to come out of pocket $12k to pay for the drug (if its not covered by insurance), or everyone with that insurance will have an extra ~$5k in shared medical costs and everyone’s costs go up.

I’m just stating that the financial costs of all of this shouldn’t be overlooked.

I agree cost shouldn’t be overlooked on a societal level, but that’s not why people in this thread have objected to the drugs.

To recap, the main reasons: 1. People should be able to lose weight without them. 2. Lawsuits have been threatened. 3. Because.

None of those are reasonable arguments imo, given available data.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is not "engage in fitness and nutrition" or "get started on improving fitness and nutrition". You're correct -- lots of people do that.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is, rather, "go from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise". Statistically, from a top-of-the-mountain view of millions of obese people, barely anyone goes from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise. Even obese people who start off in earnest and with every intention to see the process through.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

Very good. To solve the societal problem of obesity, it is necessary to deal with people who avoid hard work like the plague -- that's not going to change. Without meeting people where they are, any society-wide plan of attack necessarily fails. Presently, there are means to make the work much less hard. Over time, these means will improve and get much cheaper. Better mousetraps will be built and employed, and the general obesity problem will be better mitigated against.

Gotcha.

I also suspect significant amounts of the negativity being lobbed at these drugs is resentment from said fitness community. Those people work really hard and pay attention to their diets to achieve their goals. I imagine it's frustrating to see someone who doesn't have that level of dedication or commitment get the same results with minimal effort.

People can be so petty. This isn’t a nationwide Biggest Loser competition; we should be happy for any obese person who loses weight.

Admittedly, I do get irritated at non-obese people using the drugs to shed a few vanity pounds. I also am disturbed by how early and often Botox is being used.

ETA And muscular guys with dubious “low T” diagnoses, taking exogenous testosterone

 

[Terminalxylem]

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

however, much more prevalent in the USA

We’re high on the list, but moving down a bit. Pacific islanders and a few Middle Eastern places beat us, and Australia is about tied IIRC

 

[3C's]

From the first link on this page there's this little nugget of info: While the Body Mass Index (BMI) is a common but flawed obesity measure, the Waist-to-Height Ratio (WHtR) offers a more accurate assessment by considering waist circumference.

I can get on board with that. BMI paints an ugly picture for me but WHtR puts me just into the yellow which I can buy. I'll be in the green again soon.

https://anamcara.co.za/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/weightchartratio-waist-to-height.gif

 

[massraider]

To recap, the main reasons: 1. People should be able to lose weight without them. 2. Lawsuits have been threatened. 3. Because.

This is simply not the case.

To recap, Whole bunch of wishcasting and ignoring what people are actually saying in this thread.

People are irrational about the obesity epidemic in this country

 

[Terminalxylem]

To recap, the main reasons: 1. People should be able to lose weight without them. 2. Lawsuits have been threatened. 3. Because.

This is simply not the case.

To recap, Whole bunch of wishcasting and ignoring what people are actually saying in this thread.

People are irrational about the obesity epidemic in this country

Help me out here. What are people saying, and what am I wishcasting?

 

[SWC]

17740 steps yesterday take that to the bank brohans

 

[beer 30]

From the first link on this page there's this little nugget of info: While the Body Mass Index (BMI) is a common but flawed obesity measure, the Waist-to-Height Ratio (WHtR) offers a more accurate assessment by considering waist circumference.

I can get on board with that. BMI paints an ugly picture for me but WHtR puts me just into the yellow which I can buy. I'll be in the green again soon.

https://anamcara.co.za/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/weightchartratio-waist-to-height.gif

I'm all about this! Obese on BMI, borderline OK / Take Care on this #winning

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Seems like that one is somewhat outdated:

List of countries by obesity rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point is, this is a human nature problem and not just America. Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

ETA - for average BMI - should have specified that.

This graphic still shows that the US is an outlier by global standards.

I mean, sure, obviously let's ignore Africa, much of India, and much of China. I get that those are bad comparison points. But the US is a lot more obese than the EU, Korea, and Japan. Those are peer regions.

 

[AAABatteries]

Seems like that one is somewhat outdated:

List of countries by obesity rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point is, this is a human nature problem and not just America. Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

ETA - for average BMI - should have specified that.

This graphic still shows that the US is an outlier by global standards.

I mean, sure, obviously let's ignore Africa, much of India, and much of China. I get that those are bad comparison points. But the US is a lot more obese than the EU, Korea, and Japan. Those are peer regions.

Yeah - I was looking at average BMI in the first link but you have to scroll down and link to it there. I was trying to figure out what it means and it seems like maybe the US is high in both very obese people and also very fit people. Not sure if that’s the right conclusion for a really high obesity rate but just high BMI average or not. Makes sense to me. There’s a huge workout/fitness culture in the US that I could see not existing in other countries.

 

[coopersdad]

From the first link on this page there's this little nugget of info: While the Body Mass Index (BMI) is a common but flawed obesity measure, the Waist-to-Height Ratio (WHtR) offers a more accurate assessment by considering waist circumference.

I can get on board with that. BMI paints an ugly picture for me but WHtR puts me just into the yellow which I can buy. I'll be in the green again soon.

https://anamcara.co.za/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/weightchartratio-waist-to-height.gif

I'm all about this! Obese on BMI, borderline OK / Take Care on this #winning

me too..........although I think I could stand to lose 5/10 lbs.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

17740 steps yesterday take that to the bank brohans

13569. Had to work on the bum wheel. Only the 2nd shift since I hurt it nearly 2 weeks ago. Working all weekend.

 

[bigbottom]

Fitness and nutrition is a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty of people do it. It’s just not as easy as taking a shot.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is not "engage in fitness and nutrition" or "get started on improving fitness and nutrition". You're correct -- lots of people do that.

The thing that "barely anyone can do" is, rather, "go from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise". Statistically, from a top-of-the-mountain view of millions of obese people, barely anyone goes from an obese BMI to a healthy BMI through diet and exercise. Even obese people who start off in earnest and with every intention to see the process through.

It takes hard work. Something a lot of Americans avoid like the plague.

Very good. To solve the societal problem of obesity, it is necessary to deal with people who avoid hard work like the plague -- that's not going to change. Without meeting people where they are, any society-wide plan of attack necessarily fails. Presently, there are means to make the work much less hard. Over time, these means will improve and get much cheaper. Better mousetraps will be built and employed, and the general obesity problem will be better mitigated against.

Fantastic post along the lines of what Terminal has been saying.

 

[WVU Alum]

The outside of the box solution is we double down on global warming, embrace rising sea levels, look forward to intense climate change and global famines. In a decade or so, all of the people left will be slim and fit. And maybe even have gills.

 

[culdeus]

Seems like that one is somewhat outdated:

List of countries by obesity rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point is, this is a human nature problem and not just America. Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

ETA - for average BMI - should have specified that.

This graphic still shows that the US is an outlier by global standards.

I mean, sure, obviously let's ignore Africa, much of India, and much of China. I get that those are bad comparison points. But the US is a lot more obese than the EU, Korea, and Japan. Those are peer regions.

Yeah - I was looking at average BMI in the first link but you have to scroll down and link to it there. I was trying to figure out what it means and it seems like maybe the US is high in both very obese people and also very fit people. Not sure if that’s the right conclusion for a really high obesity rate but just high BMI average or not. Makes sense to me. There’s a huge workout/fitness culture in the US that I could see not existing in other countries.

The ratio that really hurts in the us is the male female ratio. We have the fattest women and it's getting worse. There was a projection that seemed to indicate women will by median weigh more than men controlled for height in this decade.

Women have really been crushed by the HAES movement and we have no idea what the world looks like healthcare wise with them out of control on obesity and alcohol.

 

[FairWarning]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Depending where the injury is with your knee, I could do low impact like the treadmill or biking. A stairclimber was out, the knee would pop.

 

[JAA]

10-12% is not normal

12-15% is more along the lines of normal.

Fat is a critical component to the longevity of the human race

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone know how tall Hari is? I’m checking him out and it seems he was just over 200# at his heaviest. The way he throws around how obese he was, I expecting 300+ pounds.

Weighing 2 bills, he’d be obese at 5’ 9”

Yea, I actually figured that out on my own. that’s based on BMI, correct? I just incorrectly assumed the dude was really fat. I don’t love what BMI says, because it says I’m overweight. I’m at 26.5. Eat pretty well and exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week. I’ve got abs bro BMI wants me to lose 15 pounds. 15! I’ve never had a dr say a word about my weight. I’m in shape. I probably carry 5-10#s of fat. Losing that would put me in the 170s. Which I haven’t been in for 25-30 years. Maybe when my knee chills out, I’ll see if I can get into the 170s. I can’t imagine taking drugs for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a 15# weight loss. But this thread has made me think about what I could change. I’m going to drastically cut sugar and see what happens.

Have you measured your body composition?

Sub 20% body fat last month. Lowest ever was 15.5%

Though this is debatable, closer to 10-12% is a reasonable goal, if you’re “fit”.

And that doesn’t account for visceral fat %, which is much more closely correlated with disease.

10% of 185 = 18.5, so yeah, you could loose that much fat and still be healthy

It would be interesting to know how many people are in the 10-12% body fat range. It can’t be many. I’m usually one of the more fit people in most groups. Especially in my age group. I was easily in the best shape of anyone on that group trip to snowbird last year

ETA: I don’t doubt that I’d still be healthy. I’ve just weighed around 185 forever.

I am 58. According to my non-scientific scale I weigh 173.5 lbs, 14.1% Body Fat, Visceral Fat of 9. According to my non-scientific Apple Health app my VO2 is 40.

While on topic of the diet and exercise aspect of discussion, this week has been very difficult for me. I have low T and delayed my injection so I could get bloodwork done at the "low" point of cycle (I inject one every 3 weeks). MY energy levels and overall mood are slumping this week. I am injecting tonight and hopefully improve it (usually does). Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

And all this VO2 max talk has made me want to see what mine really is. The data on my watch is only from one week in December. Weird.

Depending where the injury is with your knee, I could do low impact like the treadmill or biking. A stairclimber was out, the knee would pop.

Yea. Unfortunately I’m well versed in knee injuries/chronic pain etc. I walk a ton at work so never do any treadmill at the gym. I do elliptical, bike, versaclimber, row, this thing that simulates Skiing and I will run the stairs if the knee is feeling good.

Right now I can’t do any of that

 

[Max Power]

Societal gains

Women are celebrating their Ozempic weight loss — by getting boob jobs: ‘Best decision I ever made’

“Losing the weight, getting the breast augmentation — it’s self-care that makes me feel good about me.”

nypost.com

 

[Terminalxylem]

Seems like that one is somewhat outdated:

List of countries by obesity rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point is, this is a human nature problem and not just America. Honestly, if it were not for the amount of walking/biking many of the European nations have they would be right there with us in many instances.

ETA - for average BMI - should have specified that.

This graphic still shows that the US is an outlier by global standards.

I mean, sure, obviously let's ignore Africa, much of India, and much of China. I get that those are bad comparison points. But the US is a lot more obese than the EU, Korea, and Japan. Those are peer regions.

I don’t think anyone denies the US is fat. But Korea and Japan are outliers in the other direction.

IMO Europe, Canada, and Australia/New Zealand are better comparators. We’re certainly worse than them, too, but that doesn’t negate the fact that average BMIs are ballooning nearly everywhere in the developed world.

 

[AAABatteries]

Societal gains

Women are celebrating their Ozempic weight loss — by getting boob jobs: ‘Best decision I ever made’

“Losing the weight, getting the breast augmentation — it’s self-care that makes me feel good about me.”

nypost.com

Your avatar reminded me....

Mac gets fat! - It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia Fat Mac S07E01 Dennis & Mac IASIP funny clip

Find ALL of my videos here:https://www.youtube.com/user/kootallica/videosMac gets fat It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia Fat Mac S07E01 Dennis & Mac IASIP...

www.youtube.com

 

[AAABatteries]

No Restrictions!

 

[Terminalxylem]

10-12% is not normal

12-15% is more along the lines of normal.

Fat is a critical component to the longevity of the human race

10-12 is a lower, healthy bf percentage, not uncommon among young males, and some older recreational athletes. I think @DA RAIDERS identifies as the latter, which is why I picked that as a goal. I wanted to show the target weight he believed unrealistic wasn’t completely off the mark. I mean, he weighed that much when he was younger, so clearly it’s possible.

Actually, it’s always interesting hearing people dismiss target weights, often followed by “I haven’t weighed that much since college!?!” Ummmm, OK, how do you think body composition should change from young adulthood to middle age? We don’t typically gain muscle or bone mass after college, so what’s left?

Also, can you expound upon the longevity comment?

 

[Sand]

The ratio that really hurts in the us is the male female ratio. We have the fattest women and it's getting worse. There was a projection that seemed to indicate women will by median weigh more than men controlled for height in this decade.

Women have really been crushed by the HAES movement and we have no idea what the world looks like healthcare wise with them out of control on obesity and alcohol.

I can't find it right now, but saw a study a bit back that talked about a large portion of 40-50 year old women get 2 minutes of vigorous exercise per year. The above surprises me none. Nor does the fact that middle aged women tend to have, on average, a huge rate of health problems.

 

[belljr]

The ratio that really hurts in the us is the male female ratio. We have the fattest women and it's getting worse. There was a projection that seemed to indicate women will by median weigh more than men controlled for height in this decade.

Women have really been crushed by the HAES movement and we have no idea what the world looks like healthcare wise with them out of control on obesity and alcohol.

I can't find it right now, but saw a study a bit back that talked about a large portion of 40-50 year old women get 2 minutes of vigorous exercise per year. The above surprises me none. Nor does the fact that middle aged women tend to have, on average, a huge rate of health problems.

Yep usually on our anniversary. It's the best 2 minutes of our year......

 

[DA RAIDERS]

10-12% is not normal

12-15% is more along the lines of normal.

Fat is a critical component to the longevity of the human race

10-12 is a lower, healthy bf percentage, not uncommon among young males, and some older recreational athletes. I think @DA RAIDERS identifies as the latter, which is why I picked that as a goal. I wanted to show the target weight he believed unrealistic wasn’t completely off the mark. I mean, he weighed that much when he was younger, so clearly it’s possible.

Actually, it’s always interesting hearing people dismiss target weights, often followed by “I haven’t weighed that much since college!?!” Ummmm, OK, how do you think body composition should change from young adulthood to middle age? We don’t typically gain muscle or bone mass after college, so what’s left?

Also, can you expound upon the longevity comment?

I don’t think it’s unrealistic. I’ve just been the same weight, 185, for a looooong time. For me, I definitely made a concerted effort to put on a lot of muscle from 25-35. I was scrawny as a kid. My nicknames were skeletor and bones. Losing 10% of my body weight seems like a lot. But it’s really not I guess.

I’ve never had a dr tell me I should lose weight. I’m pretty fit, workout a lot more than most my age. Skied snowbird open to close last year. Which was no joke. Do I carry 5-10#s of excess fat? Yep. Do I want to lose it? Based on results, no. But I haven’t really tried. I may give it a shot once I figure out this knee issue.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

From the first link on this page there's this little nugget of info: While the Body Mass Index (BMI) is a common but flawed obesity measure, the Waist-to-Height Ratio (WHtR) offers a more accurate assessment by considering waist circumference.

I can get on board with that. BMI paints an ugly picture for me but WHtR puts me just into the yellow which I can buy. I'll be in the green again soon.

https://anamcara.co.za/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/weightchartratio-waist-to-height.gif

I also like this new measure calling upon me to take care instead of demanding I sacrifice one of my legs.

 

[Judge Smails]

Super interesting thread. Best I’ve seen in the FFA for a long time.

 

[culdeus]

To recap, the main reasons: 1. People should be able to lose weight without them. 2. Lawsuits have been threatened. 3. Because.

This is simply not the case.

To recap, Whole bunch of wishcasting and ignoring what people are actually saying in this thread.

People are irrational about the obesity epidemic in this country

Is wishcasting a new political word? Democrat or Republican? I loved learning that snowflakes are inherently evil.

Wishcasting is just a fancy word for doomer. Ive only seen it in the context of actual weather events.

 

[Terminalxylem]

10-12% is not normal

12-15% is more along the lines of normal.

Fat is a critical component to the longevity of the human race

10-12 is a lower, healthy bf percentage, not uncommon among young males, and some older recreational athletes. I think @DA RAIDERS identifies as the latter, which is why I picked that as a goal. I wanted to show the target weight he believed unrealistic wasn’t completely off the mark. I mean, he weighed that much when he was younger, so clearly it’s possible.

Actually, it’s always interesting hearing people dismiss target weights, often followed by “I haven’t weighed that much since college!?!” Ummmm, OK, how do you think body composition should change from young adulthood to middle age? We don’t typically gain muscle or bone mass after college, so what’s left?

Also, can you expound upon the longevity comment?

I don’t think it’s unrealistic. I’ve just been the same weight, 185, for a looooong time. For me, I definitely made a concerted effort to put on a lot of muscle from 25-35. I was scrawny as a kid. My nicknames were skeletor and bones. Losing 10% of my body weight seems like a lot. But it’s really not I guess.

I’ve never had a dr tell me I should lose weight. I’m pretty fit, workout a lot more than most my age. Skied snowbird open to close last year. Which was no joke. Do I carry 5-10#s of excess fat? Yep. Do I want to lose it? Based on results, no. But I haven’t really tried. I may give it a shot once I figure out this knee issue.

I was the same way: skinny guy in high school, who religiously lifted through college, and a couple decades after. Gained 25-30 pounds of muscle. Remained active, though I quit lifting about a decade ago, but still had the same target weight. And my weight was stable, so I thought everything was OK. After all, I was never overweight, and far more active than my peers.

75 hard taught me that was inaccurate. Lifting or not, we lose muscle with age, and gain fat.

So I recalibrated my weight about 15 pounds lower, and since losing it, I feel much more energetic. Plus my functional strength hasn’t seemed to change.

So I’d strongly consider a lower goal, even if you’ve weighed the same for a long time. All you joints will thank you.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

10-12% is not normal

12-15% is more along the lines of normal.

Fat is a critical component to the longevity of the human race

10-12 is a lower, healthy bf percentage, not uncommon among young males, and some older recreational athletes. I think @DA RAIDERS identifies as the latter, which is why I picked that as a goal. I wanted to show the target weight he believed unrealistic wasn’t completely off the mark. I mean, he weighed that much when he was younger, so clearly it’s possible.

Actually, it’s always interesting hearing people dismiss target weights, often followed by “I haven’t weighed that much since college!?!” Ummmm, OK, how do you think body composition should change from young adulthood to middle age? We don’t typically gain muscle or bone mass after college, so what’s left?

Also, can you expound upon the longevity comment?

I don’t think it’s unrealistic. I’ve just been the same weight, 185, for a looooong time. For me, I definitely made a concerted effort to put on a lot of muscle from 25-35. I was scrawny as a kid. My nicknames were skeletor and bones. Losing 10% of my body weight seems like a lot. But it’s really not I guess.

I’ve never had a dr tell me I should lose weight. I’m pretty fit, workout a lot more than most my age. Skied snowbird open to close last year. Which was no joke. Do I carry 5-10#s of excess fat? Yep. Do I want to lose it? Based on results, no. But I haven’t really tried. I may give it a shot once I figure out this knee issue.

I was the same way: skinny guy in high school, who religiously lifted through college, and a couple decades after. Also gained 25-30 pounds of muscle. Remained active but quit lifting about a decade ago, but still had the same target weight.

75 hard taught me that was inaccurate. Lifting or not, we lose muscle with age, and gain fat.

So I recalibrated my weight about 15 pounds lower, and since losing it, I feel much more energetic. Plus my functional strength hasn’t seemed to change.

So I’d strongly consider a lower goal, even if you’ve weighed the same fir a long time. All you joints will thank you.

The last sentence is the kicker. With my knee so pissed, I told my wife the other day, losing 10+ pounds could only help it. Man I’m really hoping to avoid surgery.

 

[3C's]

To recap, the main reasons: 1. People should be able to lose weight without them. 2. Lawsuits have been threatened. 3. Because.

This is simply not the case.

To recap, Whole bunch of wishcasting and ignoring what people are actually saying in this thread.

People are irrational about the obesity epidemic in this country

Is wishcasting a new political word? Democrat or Republican? I loved learning that snowflakes are inherently evil.

Wishcasting is just a fancy word for doomer. Ive only seen it in the context of actual weather events.

Right, like where some of the internet "meteorologists" forecast (wishcast) a major event like a blizzard but the data doesn't support it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The bias to make obesity a moral judgment seems almost impossible to overcome in some people.

I suppose anything is possible in some people. But I don't see bias or morality as a prime factor.

Yes, I guess it goes way back to Gluttony as one of "7 deadly sins" but I'm not sure how many see obesity as "Gluttony". It seems more like eating and exercise choices. At least that's the case if one believes what you eat or if you exercise has any impact on obesity.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I counsel patients regarding diet and exercise, and reassure them when they become frustrated at the difficulty losing weight. I emphasize they shouldn't let perfect be enemy of the good, and any dietary improvement/activity increase/weight loss is better than none.

Interesting. That's quite a bit different from "unfortunately, diet and exercise seldom succeed in real world conditions."

 

[Joe Bryant]

Bottom line, I still got up at 5:30AM and ran my 5 miles in 90+% humidity. Was it fun, no but it is part of my normal now and that is the "lifesyle" change that must occur for most to see the benefits of diet and exercise. I know I may be in the minority, but the felling I have when done is incredible and makes it worth the work put in.

I think you're hitting on some of the real issue. Doing this is not fun. Restricting what one eats is not fun.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

Yes. Injuries to lower body are a worry. Swimming is great if you have access to it. Rowing has legs of course but might be able to work around that.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

This is the way.

I’ve done something to my knee. I’m awaiting an MRI. As soon as the swelling and pain subsided enough that I could hobble around, I went back to the gym. I can’t walk very well. I’m taking the f’ing elevator at the gym. But I’ve been twice this week and will go today and maybe tomorrow. Which would be my normal routine.

I’m trying to figure out a cardio exercise I can do without using my legs I’m going to give the goofy machine that has bike pedals that you do with your arms a shot. There’s also a skiers erg? Deal that I can do I’m gonna get hella swole in my upper body if this keeps up

Yes. Injuries to lower body are a worry. Swimming is great if you have access to it. Rowing has legs of course but might be able to work around that.

My ridiculous gym has 3 pools. I’ll be swimming once I get the injury figured out

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

this is not something "everyone can do." In fact, barely anyone can do it

Do you have thoughts on:

1. Why it seems that 50 years ago, lots of people were able to not be obese?
2. Why today in countries like Japan, 96% of the population is able not to be obese?

This goes back to my water is wet comment. The way food is made/sold/marketed is different. We’re old enough that we remember the microwave being introduced. Remember the hungry man ads? We went from cooking with fresh ingredients, for the most part, to cooking prepacked crap laden with preservatives, sugar, salt, all the wrong oils and HFCS.

Take popcorn. Extra buttery microwave popcorn. Really not good for you. Loaded with trans fats and other chemicals. If you Cook the popcorn your self you control what goes in it. That’s an easy 3-4 hundred calorie difference and no chemicals/transfats. Hell, you could cook it in bacon fat and it will be healthier for you.

Occam’s razor.

Maybe you missed this.

 

[bigbottom]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

Cultural differences. And probably genetic differences as well.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

Cultural differences. And probably genetic differences as well.

Not saying you're wrong necessarily -- I'm open to the idea that the US was just destined by genetics and culture to have a higher baseline rate of obesity than Japan. But those can't explain (easily, anyway) why obesity has gotten so much worse in the US compared to, say, the 1970s. Our genetics and culture probably haven't changed enough to explain that.

 

[Doug B]

Our genetics and culture probably haven't changed enough to explain that.

Our culture absolutely has.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

this is not something "everyone can do." In fact, barely anyone can do it

Do you have thoughts on:

1. Why it seems that 50 years ago, lots of people were able to not be obese?
2. Why today in countries like Japan, 96% of the population is able not to be obese?

This goes back to my water is wet comment. The way food is made/sold/marketed is different. We’re old enough that we remember the microwave being introduced. Remember the hungry man ads? We went from cooking with fresh ingredients, for the most part, to cooking prepacked crap laden with preservatives, sugar, salt, all the wrong oils and HFCS.

Take popcorn. Extra buttery microwave popcorn. Really not good for you. Loaded with trans fats and other chemicals. If you Cook the popcorn your self you control what goes in it. That’s an easy 3-4 hundred calorie difference and no chemicals/transfats. Hell, you could cook it in bacon fat and it will be healthier for you.

Occam’s razor.

Maybe you missed this.

Thanks. I saw your post. Was wondering if @AAABatteries had thoughts. And others of course too.

I find the "hardly anyone can do it" fascinating when somehow someway 96% of Japanese people do it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

Cultural differences. And probably genetic differences as well.

Thanks. Can you elaborate? What specific cultural or genetic differences?

 

[Doug B]

I find the "hardly anyone can do it" fascinating when somehow someway 96% of Japanese people do it.

The Japanese people don’t do it actively. Being near a healthy BMI is one of the consequences of living in Japanese society right now. It was also a consequence of living in American society pre-WWII, and to a lesser extent pre-1970.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Sustained weight loss is really hard for Americans but not for other cultures??

Yeah, not buying it.

Better diet, more exercise. Americans are lazy and fat.

With few exceptions, obesity is a problem in much of the developed world.

Yeah, the idea of lazy American's as it pertains to obesity is really lazy humans. We are basically the top major world power but just about everybody on the planet is overweight (by BMI) save several African nations and the far East.

Most Obese Countries 2025

Detailed data of the most obese countries, detailing the prevalence of obesity in various nations, highlighting the top countries with the highest rates of obesity.

worldpopulationreview.com

Thanks. Why do most people think US is 36% and Japan, a very developed country, is 4%?

this is not something "everyone can do." In fact, barely anyone can do it

Do you have thoughts on:

1. Why it seems that 50 years ago, lots of people were able to not be obese?
2. Why today in countries like Japan, 96% of the population is able not to be obese?

This goes back to my water is wet comment. The way food is made/sold/marketed is different. We’re old enough that we remember the microwave being introduced. Remember the hungry man ads? We went from cooking with fresh ingredients, for the most part, to cooking prepacked crap laden with preservatives, sugar, salt, all the wrong oils and HFCS.

Take popcorn. Extra buttery microwave popcorn. Really not good for you. Loaded with trans fats and other chemicals. If you Cook the popcorn your self you control what goes in it. That’s an easy 3-4 hundred calorie difference and no chemicals/transfats. Hell, you could cook it in bacon fat and it will be healthier for you.

Occam’s razor.

Maybe you missed this.

Thanks. I saw your post. Was wondering if @AAABatteries had thoughts. And others of course too.

I find the "hardly anyone can do it" fascinating when somehow someway 96% of Japanese people do it.

It’s not that they’re doing something that we’re not. What they are ingesting is better and healthier than what most Americans are ingesting. The US food industry has a monetary agenda to stock holders and fat cats to produce the cheapest possible product. that is as addictive as possible. and has the longest possible shelf life. There are genetics in play, but the easiest place to start is that the food they eat is healthier.