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Nope. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...-ways-than-bmi-charts-to-assess-health-risks/
Mounjaro (Zepbound as a weight loss drug) is actually a different class than Ozempic (Wegovy). The former bonds two different receptors involved in appetite/satiety/weight regulation, and is more potent, but has less long term data.
Many of the same arguments regarding vaccine uptake apply - there’s no way Americans can be expected to behave like the Japanese.
Wasn't sure if you saw the article below -- posted it in this thread this past Saturday. It's clear to me that to achieve a society-wide reduction in obesity down to Japan's level, the U.S. would have to become, socio-culturally, a lot like Japan. And not just in the obesity-facing aspects ... in almost all aspects: lack of social cynicism, social trust, ready acquiescence to government and to experts, lower expectations of privacy, collectivism over individualism, and many more.
The Land That Doesn't Need Ozempic
Some 43% of Americans are obese, compared with just 4.5% of Japanese people. What explains this gap?time.com
Yes, as it is for a huge number of people. Don't want to make this an "I lift bro" thing but I used to lift hard and I got "big". And there's plenty of people just like me at gyms all over the country. See the link I posted above. From that: "And a third of those who were identified as overweight by their BMI had normal amounts of body fat."
It's just weight divided by the square of your height. Doesn't take into account how much of that weight is muscle, fat or bone, or any other demographic factors like age, gender, ethnicity, etc.
Mentioned earlier waist to height ratio. Very simple and a much better metric.
Chantix helped, as it doubles to triples the rate of effective smoking cessation, more so than any other intervention.
It’s not perfect, but one of the better quick-and-dirty estimates of overweight/obesity, with plenty of data showing its value as a proxy for healthy weight.
Yeah, most people attributing their bloated BMIs to extra muscle are probably off the mark. On the contrary, BMI tends to underestimate adiposity in comparison to better tools like DEXA, especially in white males.
Here's a better "real world" comparison. Using info my wife told me today, my FIL (who is taller than me) weighs 10lbs less than me, yet his waist is 10" bigger than mine. He has little bird legs and arms but a nice round belly. Based on BMI alone he is much more fit than me. In fact his BMI says he's very near "normal".
www.ama-assn.org
www.hsph.harvard.edu
Sugar intake releases opioids and dopamine just like any number of addictive drugs.
Can you elaborate a little on the weight you gained weightlifting?
Even though it correlates with some diseases, BMI is not a measure of physical fitness.Here's a better "real world" comparison. Using info my wife told me today, my FIL (who is taller than me) weighs 10lbs less than me, yet his waist is 10" bigger than mine. He has little bird legs and arms but a nice round belly. Based on BMI alone he is much more fit than me. In fact his BMI says he's very near "normal".
Here's more on BMI flaws, including from the AMA.
"Given the report’s findings, the new policy supports AMA in educating physicians on the issues with BMI and alternative measures for diagnosing obesity."AMA adopts new policy clarifying role of BMI as a measure in medicine
Policy aimed at clarifying how body mass index (BMI) can be used as a measure in medicine.
BMI a poor metric for measuring people’s health, say experts | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
Clinicians should pull back on the widespread use of body mass index (BMI) as a metric for assessing people’s health because it can lead to patient distrust and delayed care, say some health experts.
It would be interesting to start a nutrition thread, where people delineated what constitutes a healthy diet. While I’m sure we’d agree on a few things, I bet overall nutritional knowledge is all over the map.
It’s not perfect, but in terms of a rule it kinda is all we have.
I think you are giving people too much credit. I guess also depends on what you mean by the basics of nutrition. But my sense is people don't really know all that much. And most don't look at labels so don't even know what they're eating half the time.
Said it a start of thread sugar/caffeine is an addiction, very similar to alcohol.
This seems high for US and low for Japan from my travels. I might see 1 person in 100 smoking in the US. 15% seems impossible unless they are counting occasional stuff really tight or there are sections of the population that just smoke like crazy.
Ever been down south, Chief?
Absolutely. I found it far easier to give up alcohol (which was an addiction for me, not just a casual thing) than to cut out sugar.
Just insert the word “scalable” instead of “societal.”
Down here in 'Bama where you'd expect personal chimneys everywhere I really don't see anyone smoking. Very rare. I don't know how they count 15%, but man that seems high.
No they sure don't. I'd be curious to know how much things we ingest today has added sugar in them now compared to 50 years ago? It's 5pm and I'm too lazy to fire up the Googles but I'd argue that it isn't all about personal choice. I think there has been some nefarious "slipping in of the sugar" into our diet on the sly to amplify the addiction.
I'll go put on myand sit in the corner now.
But with food labels, it's so easy now.
I guess I could see someone who couldn't read having trouble with inadvertently getting more sugar than they choose. But that seems like a small number of people.
If the battle was educating people about food, and that there's a lot of bad food out there, that battle is won.
People know the food is bad. Everyone drinking Coca Cola knows sugar is bad for you.
Everyone knows never walking or getting any exercise is bad for you.
You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. My entire point is that society is looking for an effective solution at a macro level. I am specifically NOT conflating societal with effective. That is, we know that personal responsibility is effective, but only at an individual level and not at a societal level.
This is spot on! US citizens would not accept the government intrusion/ mandates or the discrimination that the Japanese live under. Plus, Japan considers itself in crisis mode right now, regarding the fact that the younger generations are completely ignoring the healthy lifestyle guidelines set up by Japan. It’s weird to understand the Japanese perspective when we see what’s going on in the US. My guess is that the Japanese are in crisis mode because they are afraid of becoming what the US has become.Many of the same arguments regarding vaccine uptake apply - there’s no way Americans can be expected to behave like the Japanese.
Wasn't sure if you saw the article below -- posted it in this thread this past Saturday. It's clear to me that to achieve a society-wide reduction in obesity down to Japan's level, the U.S. would have to become, socio-culturally, a lot like Japan. And not just in the obesity-facing aspects ... in almost all aspects: lack of social cynicism, social trust, ready acquiescence to government and to experts, lower expectations of privacy, collectivism over individualism, and many more.
The Land That Doesn't Need Ozempic
Some 43% of Americans are obese, compared with just 4.5% of Japanese people. What explains this gap?
Never did I say I was a musclebound 60yo (wouldn't have said that about 30 or 40yo me either) or that I looked like either of those 2 pics. I used those 2 pics to highlight 2 different body types showing that 1 of those 2, who are both extremely fit, is considered overweight by simple BMI. Can't even tell you how much muscle I gained because that wasn't something I really thought about. I only thought about pushing more weight than anyone else in the gym and worked out 2 hours/day 6/days a week to (try to) get there. I too have lost muscle and gained fat since the "height" of those days, probably as much as 20 lbs muscle lost or more
shrug: ) . My chest is down a couple of inches, my biceps are down to 16", and because of my going the "F it" route as I turned 60 and that lasting until early this year I added some bad pounds (quite a few). (Also did that during the "shutdown" but that was different) That's on the way back down and should be back to good in about a month, not that it's too bad now. I don't spend 2 hours in a gym lifting anymore, in fact I don't even go to a gym. I have my own gym in a basement room but the most I'll spend on weights is about 30 minutes several times a week. On a day like today I'll go for a 20-25 mile bike ride. Others I'll use the rowing machine for 6000m, the elliptical, do some kettlebell, and something I need a lot more of, stretching. Probably should consider doing Yoga, thought about tai chi too. Once I'm back down to my target weight (within a month probably) I'm going to see how much more I can drop. I'll certainly continue to lose muscle as I age and that'll get me closer/close to a "normal" BMI but I'm not worried about that metric, it just gives me something to shoot for. WtHR is just above .5 but I'm hoping to be at or below that soon (also within about a month).Those are certainly steps in right direction but good nutrition is really more than that. I'll give a few quick examples from friends of mine, these are all recent and these guys are generally pretty healthy, i.e. play sports look generally healthy. All 3 had pretty serious health issues flagged by a doctor 1) struggles with weight gain which is also impacting his knees and his ability to play sports, had no idea that eating a salad w/ blue cheese or ranch dressing every day was contributing to this. 2) signs of diabetes, when discussing nutrition w/ him says "sugar is sugar" thinking a soda and a bowl of raspberries was the same thing 3) also signs of diabetes despite having no weight issues, was not eating any whole grains eating lots of white flour products regularly.
I'm considered obese by a typical BMI chart for that exact reason. Even while I was in the military I had to get "measured" because I didn't pass the height weight standards alone. I also have room to cut some weight as I'm typically around 18% body fat. I'd have to drop 50 lbs to get into the normal "optimal" range and that just isn't happening.
The struggle is real.
Now, yes. The Nutritional Food Label didn't really come into existence until 1994 according to this article. And the one that we are familiar with today that lists out everything didn't come around until 2020 so while it's been around for a while, it's also fairly recent. I grew up in the 70's & 80's. Sugar was the drug of the day for kids like me.
Shoulda read AAA's response and just ditto'd it
That's fine, but it still leaves the question outstanding. Addressed to all who continue to espouse personal responsibility as a solution at the individual level:
