Spartans346
Footballguy
I have Chris Cooley and he isn't doing much this year all because of Brunell is a terrible QB. Give me Volek. 
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
*****Offical I hate Mark Brunell thread******* (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Spartans346
- Start date
whhwalker
Footballguy
Billy Volek...are you insane? Other than 2 games two years ago what has he accomplished? He got beat out by Vodka Collins for goodness sake.
Mark Brunell is a solid yet unspectacular 180, 1 and 1 guy who is playing for a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator who invented 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Moss/Cooley of 2005 was one year and perhaps was the exception to the rule.
Mark Brunell is a solid yet unspectacular 180, 1 and 1 guy who is playing for a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator who invented 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Moss/Cooley of 2005 was one year and perhaps was the exception to the rule.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I'm wondering about Campbell too. Is he ready? They have a lot of talent at WR. Can Brunell turn it around or is he toast?
Sleeper 43
Footballguy
The sooner they bench Brunell and let Jason Campbell begin to grow the better off they'll be. You trade down and pick this guy up to bench him for 3 years? I ocudl see if Brunell was capable but at this point in time, Brunell is done.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
They've spent so much money on QBs the last 4-5 seasons it's ridiculous. They drafted Patrick Ramsey round 1.. didn't they draft another real high? Then they trade for Brunell and give him a sick contract that he doesn't deserve. Then they trade Ramsey away (cap penalty), and they draft Campbell round 1. QB is probably the one position they've spent the most on... they're still paying for some of the QBs they missed on!Brunell is terrible, yes. I completely agree. He can't pass the ball more than 10 yards from the line of scrimage. We may very well see Campbell this season if Brunell continues to play poorly
Last edited by a moderator:
Sleeper 43
Footballguy
The local word is that Saunders doesnt think Campbell is ready.He also likes Todd Collins alot becasue hes familiar with his system.To sum it up it looks like Gibbs likes Campbell but gave Saunders full power of the offense.
videoguy505
Footballguy
... yet I'm still thinking of starting him next week vs. the Texans. Hell, I've had Plummer in the lineup for the first two weeks and survived. But after week 3 it might be time to cut Brunell loose and warm up Alex Smith.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I have a thread going where I mentioned Brunell...NFC notes
Washington: Brunell has perfected the following play/scenario.
It’s 3rd down and 5…he drops back, WRs are covered, he quickly moves to one side of the field…cutting down the area he can put the ball by ¾..suddenly realizes that this will not work, and he throws the ball at the line of scrimmage out of bounds and jogs to the sidelines to catch a breather…folks stick a fork in Brunell, he’s awful. He was a couple of seasons ago but they masked him somehow in Washington…he now is completely exposed in Al Saunders offense…dagummitt, if you can’t throw for the 1st down then tuck it under and run you SOB!
Not a Skinsfan or Brunell owner, but he has had a primetime game 2 weeks ina row and I am sick of watching him.
Washington: Brunell has perfected the following play/scenario.
It’s 3rd down and 5…he drops back, WRs are covered, he quickly moves to one side of the field…cutting down the area he can put the ball by ¾..suddenly realizes that this will not work, and he throws the ball at the line of scrimmage out of bounds and jogs to the sidelines to catch a breather…folks stick a fork in Brunell, he’s awful. He was a couple of seasons ago but they masked him somehow in Washington…he now is completely exposed in Al Saunders offense…dagummitt, if you can’t throw for the 1st down then tuck it under and run you SOB!
Not a Skinsfan or Brunell owner, but he has had a primetime game 2 weeks ina row and I am sick of watching him.
Last edited by a moderator:
dgreen
Footballguy
Well, he can avoid a rush better than Brunell and he'd probably take more chances downfield (as in, he'd probably take A chance downfield). Unless there's something going on with the receivers we don't know about (like running wrong routes, not being open, etc), I can't see how Campbell would be a downgrade.
Brunnel has not looked good, but the brilliant play calling has not helped. Let's see, run on 1st, run on 2nd and then on 3rd, when it's 3rd and 7+ pass. Not giving the guy much chance for success. They need to throw more on 1st and 2nd down. And, getting the ball to Moss should be a priority, and it has not been. Thus, the offense sucks and Brunnel (with no Portis too mind you) is bearing the brunt of that critiscm, but look at Gibbs and Saunders too.
Campbell won't help this offense. They flat out stink. This was way overdue. A fluke win last year vs the cowboys due to a parcells brainfart gave them 1 win and they were lucky they played the bears early on. If it was late in the year they would have been destroyed.
They are WAY overrated. Another team to have no players on.
They are WAY overrated. Another team to have no players on.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
OK, this is my area since my sarcastic name says it all. Here is why Gibbs keeps him starting, and why the almighty Gibbs is WRONG.
1. "He doesn't make mistakes" - Sure he does. He misses open WRs. He throws the ball too early when pressured. He locks in on 1 WR. He throws it out of bounds when a play has a 85% chance of working. These are mistakes, just like throwing an INT. The idea that he doesn't make mistakes is just an excuse for his poor performance.
2. "He's a veteran" - So is Kerry Collins, and who the hell wants him. Who is not an aged veteran? Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Rex Grossman, Palmer, Carr . I'll be glad to take them all. Again, it's another excuse for Brunell's poor play.
3. "He just isn't on the same page as his WRs yet" - After 3 ####### years? He knows where they should be. Don't give me this new offense, new WR crap. Every team in the league deals with it. And don't tell me a WR doesn't know where the hell to go. I think Randel-El is smart enough to figure out where to go. He was a ####### QB. McNabb sure had a hard time getting on the same page with Stallworth. That took what, 0 games? Brunell has been with these guys for months, and Moss for over a year. Another excuse.
4. "The OL isn't giving him time" - Please, he has no time cause the OL has no idea where he'll be going. Brunell rolls out of the pocket more than Michael Vick. It's hard to develop a pocket for a guy that doesn't want to be in it. This OL might not be great, but they don't suck. Another excuse.
5. "No backups are ready" - This may be the only legit argument. Campbell has shown nothing. Collins looked great for a half in preseason, but that's against 3rd stringers.
It comes down to this. We aren't winning with Brunell and the last 2 seasons were abysmal on offense. Even making the playoffs last year, it was horrid, horrid, horris except for Portis. From a passing perspective, there's nothing to speak of except for screens to Moss. Brunell has probably not thrown 5 passes over the middle all year. Sure Brunell isn't technically losing games based on a caoches definition, but he is losing games from a team perspective. I don't want a QB that goes out there not to lose, I want a QB that can make plays. I can live with the occassional INT.
So why not play a QB that can actually use the middle of the field? Campbell has a great arm and decent feet. Collins has a good arm...certainly better than Brunell. This team has a ton of weapons (Moss, Lloyd, El, Portis, Cooley). You can't simply keep making up excuses for Brunell when he's the weak link in the chain. The team is more than willing to mess with every other position on the team, yet a horrible QB seems to be untouchable.
It's time to see what Campbell/Collins can do and stop relying on your defense to win games to cover for a poor QB. Find out what Campbell has, and if it isn't anything, Snyder-boy can get ready to overpay another FA for QB this offseason.
1. "He doesn't make mistakes" - Sure he does. He misses open WRs. He throws the ball too early when pressured. He locks in on 1 WR. He throws it out of bounds when a play has a 85% chance of working. These are mistakes, just like throwing an INT. The idea that he doesn't make mistakes is just an excuse for his poor performance.
2. "He's a veteran" - So is Kerry Collins, and who the hell wants him. Who is not an aged veteran? Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Rex Grossman, Palmer, Carr . I'll be glad to take them all. Again, it's another excuse for Brunell's poor play.
3. "He just isn't on the same page as his WRs yet" - After 3 ####### years? He knows where they should be. Don't give me this new offense, new WR crap. Every team in the league deals with it. And don't tell me a WR doesn't know where the hell to go. I think Randel-El is smart enough to figure out where to go. He was a ####### QB. McNabb sure had a hard time getting on the same page with Stallworth. That took what, 0 games? Brunell has been with these guys for months, and Moss for over a year. Another excuse.
4. "The OL isn't giving him time" - Please, he has no time cause the OL has no idea where he'll be going. Brunell rolls out of the pocket more than Michael Vick. It's hard to develop a pocket for a guy that doesn't want to be in it. This OL might not be great, but they don't suck. Another excuse.
5. "No backups are ready" - This may be the only legit argument. Campbell has shown nothing. Collins looked great for a half in preseason, but that's against 3rd stringers.
It comes down to this. We aren't winning with Brunell and the last 2 seasons were abysmal on offense. Even making the playoffs last year, it was horrid, horrid, horris except for Portis. From a passing perspective, there's nothing to speak of except for screens to Moss. Brunell has probably not thrown 5 passes over the middle all year. Sure Brunell isn't technically losing games based on a caoches definition, but he is losing games from a team perspective. I don't want a QB that goes out there not to lose, I want a QB that can make plays. I can live with the occassional INT.
So why not play a QB that can actually use the middle of the field? Campbell has a great arm and decent feet. Collins has a good arm...certainly better than Brunell. This team has a ton of weapons (Moss, Lloyd, El, Portis, Cooley). You can't simply keep making up excuses for Brunell when he's the weak link in the chain. The team is more than willing to mess with every other position on the team, yet a horrible QB seems to be untouchable.
It's time to see what Campbell/Collins can do and stop relying on your defense to win games to cover for a poor QB. Find out what Campbell has, and if it isn't anything, Snyder-boy can get ready to overpay another FA for QB this offseason.
Last edited by a moderator:
broncofan13000
Footballguy
Brunell is quickly becoming my most hated player in fantasy football. 
redman
Footballguy
So the "Air Coryell" offensive scheme that both of these guys came out of is considered "3 yards and a cloud of dust"? I think the addition of Saunders has caused the offense to take a couple of steps backwards at least insofar as they're learning a new (albeit closely related) scheme; the hope would be that they'd then take three or more steps forward. I'm also not likeing what I'm seeing, however, from Saunders' play-calling given what has appeared to be a pass-first approach early in the game. The bread and butter of this offensive line is run-blocking, which they rediscovered last year when they won the last 5 games of the season. I think Saunders is too focused on calling explosive plays early rather than simply playing to the team's natural strength, which would be establishment of the run first. That would open things up for the offense and would probably make pass blocking easier, which in turn would take pressure off of Brunell. As for Brunell personally, I'm reassessing my stance going into the season that he was still a good NFL QB as long as he was healthy. He looks very indecisive out there and he's bouncing/short-arming passes to open guys who aren't very far downfield. Given the other problems on offense (Portis' absence; pass protection problems; new offense) it's hard to isolate Brunell as the problem but I don't like what I'm seeing so far.
redman
Footballguy
I'm high on Campbell and think he's ready to get playing time and would be playing by now for most teams if they had drafted him as high as the Redskins did (different from saying he's better than most starting QB's). If Campbell started the rest of the season I'd figure him to throw about an equal number of TD's and INT's, likely between 14 and 18 of each, and maybe between 2700 and 3100 yards. The problem is that starting him now guarantees that the team won't make the playoffs this year. The prospects for the playoffs are already bad at 0-2, but this division will be a dog fight all year long, so they're right back in it if they pull themselves to a 4-4 record by mid-season IMHO. I don't think they're ready just yet to turn this into a learning year for Campbell.
What are they saying over at extremeskins.com today about that debacle last night? If Ramsey were here the drumbeat would be loud and long for him to come in, but so far it's been very quiet amongst the Redskins faithful. Gee, maybe King George will reveal some inside scoop tonight with Sonny and Buges at 6:50.
dgreen
Footballguy
Well, I wouldn't propose going to Campbell now if I didn't think he was a better option to reach the playoffs than Brunell. I'm not saying to bring him in so he can begin to get his learn on.Who knows. Maybe the game film will show Brunell did well with what he had to work with. But, if it doesn't show that, I wouldn't give him more than one more game. If he can't look decent against Houston, hopefully with a healthy Portis, then he just might be done.
dgreen
Footballguy
I've been avoiding extremeskins today. It has to be a cluster you-know-what over there right now.
But would looking good against Houston be fools gold, designed to lure them into playing him again against Jax and reverting to the mean? I'm sort of rooting for a Brunell "injury" right now. Nothing serious, just enough for him to miss 3-4 weeks and remove any excuse for not starting Campbell. We need to see if he's the one or if we have to move on in the off season.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I think Gibbs will make the move at the bye. We are probably 2-5 at that stage.
I do not think Campbell is any better than Brunell right now. I don't think he should be. He hasn't played in a real game in almost 3 years. But at 2-5 in a tough division, you need to see if you have the answer at QB for the next 3-4 years. If you aren't willing to put him in when the season is bascially done, he shouldn't be on the team at all.
I do not think Campbell is any better than Brunell right now. I don't think he should be. He hasn't played in a real game in almost 3 years. But at 2-5 in a tough division, you need to see if you have the answer at QB for the next 3-4 years. If you aren't willing to put him in when the season is bascially done, he shouldn't be on the team at all.
dgreen
Footballguy
Probably. I think Brunell would have to look amazing against HOU for me to have confidence in him against JAX. Not that he needs my confidence, of course.
You know, Ramsey was hurt at just the right time last year to pave the way for Brunell's return. IIRC, it was an injury where Ramsey could have returned the same game. But, Gibbs used that as his doorway to go to Brunell which he probably wanted to do for a few weeks.
redman
Footballguy
I'm convinced that every bi-polar Redskins fan on earth posts there. I try to avoid it for the most part for the first 48 hours after a game, win or lose.
redman
Footballguy
You're assuming a static and not dynamic team performance, meaning you're ruling out improvement over the first 7 games. I know they'll improve, the question is how much. Remember, a hallmark of Gibbs' teams is that they get better as the season wears on.
Warpig
Footballguy
I think they are trying to establish the running game and see what kinda horses they have should Portis be out longer than expected. This in turn is causing the passing game to sag. I'll have to admit, Brunell has certainly lost several steps but something tells me that his WR's are to blame as well. It seemed like whenever he missed a 3rd down pass he looked frustrated like someone wasn't doing their job. Then ofcourse you have the over-rated Chris Samuels who looked like a turnstile...can anyone tell me why this guy is so hyped? Other than Moss and Cooley they have severe mediocrity at the WR spot. Brandon Lloyd? Seriously? Antwaan Randle El...he's a couple notches below Slash! People have figured out that if you take Moss out of the equation the Redskins offense stalls (until Portis is back). I guess Al Saunders forgot how to utilize his TE.After watching both Redskins games, it appears to me Brunell has lost his nads. Yep, I think he's too scared to take a shot with the ball. How many times did it look like he was going to pull the trigger last night, then he pulled it back or short hopped it. Can't be indecisive like that. The Skins have playmakers on offense, Brunell has to trust them. It's obvious he's looking for the safe pass and that's good, but damn, he needs to grow a set and let it fly sometimes. Not turn into 4th Q Brett Favre, but take a shot downfield sometimes.
I see a lot of criticism on the OL, but that's tough on them. Brunell runs into more sacks then most QBs I've seen. He also doesn't seem to know how to step up in a pocket anymore. He's mastered the back pedal then bail out. Being stuck in obvious passing situations doesn't help the OL either as does Brunell taking FOREVER sometimes to get rid of the ball. Granted they aren't the best OL out there, but they're not bad at all.
I see a lot of criticism on the OL, but that's tough on them. Brunell runs into more sacks then most QBs I've seen. He also doesn't seem to know how to step up in a pocket anymore. He's mastered the back pedal then bail out. Being stuck in obvious passing situations doesn't help the OL either as does Brunell taking FOREVER sometimes to get rid of the ball. Granted they aren't the best OL out there, but they're not bad at all.
dgreen
Footballguy
One of the things about 2004 was that nobody on offense was playing well. Yes, Brunell hung around so long because of Gibbs' loyalty, but also because receivers weren't open, the line wasn't protecting, and the ground game was subpar. Making a QB change would not help those problems. Ramsey benefited from the rest of the team playing better those last few weeks.It's hard for any of us to say if it's the receivers due to the TV angles. We can't see all the time who's open and what's going on in the secondary. However, there was several plays last night where Lloyd and Cooley were clearly wide open and running across the field and Brunell flat out just couldn't hit them. These were passes any QB should make and Brunell just skipped the ball to them. It's sad really :(
Re: Campbell coming in. It's been stated by the coaches that on gameday, Collins is #2 and Campbell #3. BUT if they were to make a change prior to the game, then Campbell would move to #1, not Collins. Saunders said there won't be a #3 to #2 to #1 progression for Campbell. It's #3 to #1 whenever it happens.
redman
Footballguy
I'm not as gloomy about the WR talent as you are. Randle El has already shown me enough to be optimistic about him. The frustrating thing is that this offense is built for speed and stretching the field vertically and horizontally to make big plays but Brunell is either unwilling or unable to pass to them downfield.
dgreen
Footballguy
There was a play last night where Brunell was sacked. On the replay, they show Moss on a fly pattern, he was wide open, and showed frustration to look back and see the sack. Madden made some comment about Brunell not having time, but he did have time. He either didn't look to Moss or, for whatever reason, just didn't throw it. I even remember a play where the blitz was picked up but Brunell threw some crap up off his back foot. He would have had enough time to plant and throw.
redman
Footballguy
I will say this: however good or bad Brunell has looked over the last 2+ seasons, I think a weakness in his game tends to be the ability to read the entire field rather than just a portion of it. He seems to fail to recognize open receivers a lot. I also agree with Madden's comment about him releasing the ball under pressure too early. Brunell's no wimp, but it does seem like he was trying to avoid hits on some of those throws.
swirvenirvin
Footballguy
Thats your fault for drafting any Redskins besides maybe Portis but I was staying away even before the injury. Did you think Brunell was going to get better from last yr. The only reason he put up halfway good stats is because of Moss and Portis. He is just awful
BoltzNBrew
Footballguy
My wife is a skins fan and she is sick of the run,run,pass,punt offence the skins are running.
Yep, Moss was clearly frustrated throughout the night so you know he was open at times and Brunell just didn't get it to him or didn't see him.or how about the play near the redzone when Cooley was running free going across the field to the left side? Brunell sees him, goes for the pass, then basically pulls it back at the last second and short hops it. WTF was that? He hits Cooley in stride and it's a possible TD, at least a 1st down. Next play, INT I believe (the wounded duck)there was also a play in the 2nd half after the Skins got the ball in decent field position. 3rd down and Brunell goes on a designed roll left play. He has Brandon Lloyd running free across the field coming into Brunell's field of vision and Brunell 2 hops it to his ankles. So frustrating....
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, there was another play, on like 3rd-and-8, where Brunell had protection, looked right for a couple seconds, then just threw it out of bounds.
buster c
Footballguy
after 58 minutes of futility, Brunell came to life with the game out of reach. I sat in stunned silence as he led this drive with the game out of reach. He stood in the pocket with confidence, firing darts downfield and not these weak pathetic 'outside the numbers' lobs he had been doing throughout the game. I know the Cowgirls were in a prevent, but if he had played like this throughout, the Skins would have won easily
1-10-WAS20 (1:48) M.Brunell pass to C.Fauria to WAS 26 for 6 yards (B.James).
2-4-WAS26 (1:20) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell pass to C.Cooley to WAS 49 for 23 yards (R.Williams).
1-10-WAS49
58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell pass to S.Moss to DAL 31 for 20 yards (P.Watkins).
1-10-DAL3133) (Shotgun) M.Brunell pass deep middle to S.Moss to DAL 7 for 24 yards (R.Williams).
1-7-DAL711) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell spiked the ball to stop the clock.
2-7-DAL711) M.Brunell pass incomplete short middle to C.Cooley (P.Watkins). Pass knocked away 8 yards deep in end zone.
3-7-DAL706) M.Brunell sacked at DAL 13 for -6 yards (sack split by J.Hatcher and G.Ellis). Penalty on WAS-J.Jansen, Offensive Holding, declined.
1-10-WAS20 (1:48) M.Brunell pass to C.Fauria to WAS 26 for 6 yards (B.James).
2-4-WAS26 (1:20) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell pass to C.Cooley to WAS 49 for 23 yards (R.Williams).
1-10-WAS49
58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell pass to S.Moss to DAL 31 for 20 yards (P.Watkins).1-10-DAL31
33) (Shotgun) M.Brunell pass deep middle to S.Moss to DAL 7 for 24 yards (R.Williams).1-7-DAL7
11) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Brunell spiked the ball to stop the clock.2-7-DAL7
11) M.Brunell pass incomplete short middle to C.Cooley (P.Watkins). Pass knocked away 8 yards deep in end zone.3-7-DAL7
06) M.Brunell sacked at DAL 13 for -6 yards (sack split by J.Hatcher and G.Ellis). Penalty on WAS-J.Jansen, Offensive Holding, declined.
redman
Footballguy
Interesting. I'm listening to Joe Gibbs' presser from this afternoon, and he got the following question at 29:20 into the press conference:
"Mark blamed himself on the interception on the one-yard line. He said it was a bad decision and a badly thrown ball. You lived through Joe Theismann getting old. Is Mark still capable of making all the throws?
"I think that's also one of the things we'll, you know, that's another scenario just like we mentioned a bunch of them here. And that's one of the things that Marks always going to have to fight at this point in his career, um, you know, I don't see that. He made a bunch of throws like I said in the 4th quarter and made them about as good as you'd want someone to throw them. A corner route in there where he got the ball to Santana. He threw it back across the middle. He got the ball in the small crack to get it to Chris. Um, so you know you go back and look at the film and see that he's capable of making the throws, and that was late in the game after he's been getting hit."
I bolded the relevant part. I think he was starting to acknowledge some concern about Brunell, and then stopped himself and reverted
to form and defended his guy. The throws he was referring to were all in that 2-minute drill during garbage time late in the 4th quarter, so those are straw men.
Also, Saunders was quoted after the game in response to a question about the complexity of his offense by saying, "I don't know. Kurt Warner was able to win a Super Bowl in his first season in it." That comment can easily be taken as a shot at Brunell, or at least evidence that Saunders may believe that Brunell is very much part of the problem. (I'll try to find a link to the quote as what I've posted here is second hand.)
If you've got room on your roster, I'd start thinking about adding Jason Campbell to it. He won't play this coming week, but if Brunell continues to look miserable, Campbell will get the call and with those receivers could have some decent value.
"Mark blamed himself on the interception on the one-yard line. He said it was a bad decision and a badly thrown ball. You lived through Joe Theismann getting old. Is Mark still capable of making all the throws?
"I think that's also one of the things we'll, you know, that's another scenario just like we mentioned a bunch of them here. And that's one of the things that Marks always going to have to fight at this point in his career, um, you know, I don't see that. He made a bunch of throws like I said in the 4th quarter and made them about as good as you'd want someone to throw them. A corner route in there where he got the ball to Santana. He threw it back across the middle. He got the ball in the small crack to get it to Chris. Um, so you know you go back and look at the film and see that he's capable of making the throws, and that was late in the game after he's been getting hit."
I bolded the relevant part. I think he was starting to acknowledge some concern about Brunell, and then stopped himself and reverted
to form and defended his guy. The throws he was referring to were all in that 2-minute drill during garbage time late in the 4th quarter, so those are straw men.
Also, Saunders was quoted after the game in response to a question about the complexity of his offense by saying, "I don't know. Kurt Warner was able to win a Super Bowl in his first season in it." That comment can easily be taken as a shot at Brunell, or at least evidence that Saunders may believe that Brunell is very much part of the problem. (I'll try to find a link to the quote as what I've posted here is second hand.)
If you've got room on your roster, I'd start thinking about adding Jason Campbell to it. He won't play this coming week, but if Brunell continues to look miserable, Campbell will get the call and with those receivers could have some decent value.
