***Official 1/6 Select Committee thread*** (1 Viewer)

[roadkill1292]

The night after Rosen and Donoghue related the tale of Trump trying to replace them at DOJ with Jeffrey Clark, Clark went on Tucker Carlson. 

I just listened to the interview in its entirety and not once did Clark refute a word of the testimony. Instead he used his six minutes to whine about the FBI executing a search warrant earlier that day and not letting him put on his pants.

If the testimony is false, go on Hannity and Tucker and tell us, for god's sake. You'll never find more sympathetic ears. I'd be mortified to support these clowns.

 

[timschochet]

Pretty sure I just gave you a detailed explanation why I don't care about her motivations for all second hand accounts she relayed and that I was willing to give heavy weight to her first hand accounts. 

I remember this being a common talking point for Blasey Ford. Pretty sure Bruce and Tim used to ask this repeatedly. My position was similar in that her motivation wasnt as important as the fact that she was relaying a 35 year old story that was missing more details than it had. Our default position should be rejection. 

Pretty sure there is an exchange in there where one of them asked me if I thought she was telling the truth. My reply was "I don't care"

This of course was a loaded feed trough for virtue points. 

Blasey Ford’s testimony was a first hand account. You just wrote that you’re willing to give heavy weight to first hand accounts. 

You doscounted Blasey Ford because she couldn’t remember certain details and it was 35 years ago. Yet she remembered the important part- that Brett Kavanaugh tried to rape her. In the final analysis, the only way you could have discounted her testimony is if you believed she was lying. That’s why I asked you if you believed she was lying. It wasn’t for virtue points. It was the only logical result of your comments at the time. 

 

[Prinefan]

ya get things done,like warning the capital police that the crowd coming on the 6th is going to be armed lol

I know you didn't hear the police scanner at the time of the Ellipse speech but THE POLICE ALREADY IDENTIFIED ARMED PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE METAL DETECTORS. 5 were spotted that I heard on the scanner recording at the hearing. Only a thousand or so people wouldn't go through the metal detectors so probably safe to assume there were more.  Then Trump was going to lead them to the Capital and FIGHT LIKE HELL in his own words.

Really?  You and others try coming in this thread without knowing what you're talking about (apologies to any who actually did the "American Democracy" thing and tuned in), and then you talk like you do know what's going on.  Please either learn what you're talking about, or troll elsewhere.    

 

[The Dude]

Who could it be, Biden, Harris, then who else is there?   Those 2 arent beating DeSantis.   Dems would need someone other than those two.   Would Chris Murphy run vs dem?   Mitch Landrieu?   Gavin Newsome?   Need someone fresh, the first 2 have that, but not the cache.   

At the risk of providing pro-trumpers a diversion - I got some for you - one very out of left field.

Matthew Mcconaughey (somewhat serious)

Jon Stewart (similar vein as trump as far as not on the radar at this point years back but with moral compass - as far as I know)

Sherrod Brown

Gretchen Whitmer as vice

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The night after Rosen and Donoghue related the tale of Trump trying to replace them at DOJ with Jeffrey Clark, Clark went on Tucker Carlson. 

I just listened to the interview in its entirety and not once did Clark refute a word of the testimony. Instead he used his six minutes to whine about the FBI executing a search warrant earlier that day and not letting him put on his pants.

If the testimony is false, go on Hannity and Tucker and tell us, for god's sake. You'll never find more sympathetic ears. I'd be mortified to support these clowns.

In a similar vein ...

Indeed, it’s fair to question the journalistic decisions behind some of these reports. Most of us had never heard of Cassidy Hutchinson until a few days ago. Her claims definitely deserve scrutiny. But testimony under oath is the price of entry to this conversation. Indeed, the two men in question, Tony Ornato and Bobby Engel, have been able to get denials into print without even agreeing to speak on the record. In other words, they’ve refused to call up reporters and say, “I never said what she claims and the incident did not happen.” They have been able to get reporters to report that people ‘familiar with their thinking’ say they will deny it. I assure you: They could get their on-the-record quotes into print at the drop of a hat. All it takes is a phone call.

 

[The Dude]

Plus - is it me or are we making too big a deal out of the incident in the beast?  That's nothing compared to the actions regarding supporters with AR's

 

[The Commish]

we all know you will say ''she was just saying what she heard ''

Many of us are already saying that because that's what she's actually saying.  

 

[sho nuff]

Plus - is it me or are we making too big a deal out of the incident in the beast?  That's nothing compared to the actions regarding supporters with AR's

Seems that is the intention here.  Make the biggest deal out of the small issue that was second hand…then throw away anything else she said

 

[The Commish]

Plus - is it me or are we making too big a deal out of the incident in the beast?  That's nothing compared to the actions regarding supporters with AR's

 

The "limo story" is the most sensational story for sure...it's also probably the least meaningful of ANY of the things we learned yesterday.  It could not exist at all and any open minded person be left wondering "WTF?!?!?!".  We've already been presented what passed 50 years ago as a "smoking gun" and somehow people are still demanding one be found.

People continue to say "this is all stuff we already knew"....I didn't know a good many of the things that were brought up yesterday.  I didn't know the prevalence of weapons in the immediate area of the Capitol grounds.  I didn't know that this prevalence was communicated, basically in real time, to the WH.  I didn't know Trump told them to take down the metal detectors.  I DID know he got really angry when the SS would not take him to the Capitol and that a confrontation happened.  Whether it was EXACTLY as described doesn't really matter IMO.  The point reasonable people should take away from that episode is that the SS doesn't blindly take orders from the President.  They understand what their job is and do it first.  I didn't know that the "no guns at the Capitol" is a direct result of ignoring the President's wishes.

This one particular event is the "look squirrel!!!!!!" moment from yesterday.  Nothing else is being talked about.  That's a feature not a bug.

 

[Mookie]

Plus - is it me or are we making too big a deal out of the incident in the beast?  That's nothing compared to the actions regarding supporters with AR's

It's evidence of Trump's intent to lead his armed minions into a full on, violent coup. I doubt he was fully serious in fighting his SS detail though as (1) his hands are too small to grab anything forcefully; and (2) he's a coward who would prefer to hunker down in his bunker watching it all unfold on TV.   

 

[ZADO]

And sexism has entered the discussion.

there are male secretaries brother,methinks its YOU who is inserting sexism lol

 

[ZADO]

on Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that three agents who were with Trump in the vehicle dispute that he “assaulted or grabbed at the leader of his security detail or that he grabbed for the steering wheel,” according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with the agents’ accounts. Various outlets also reported that Ornato and Bobby Engel, the lead Secret Service agent in the vehicle, are willing to testify to the committee disputing Hutchinson’s account.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

She's been a loyal R her entire career working for Cruz and Steve Scalise before Meadows.

This was all a master plan to get to this point. All signs point to deep state.

The "deep state" that has been used as an all encompassing boogeyman by the far right as a group of individuals trying to overthrow the country is in fact the far right. So I have to give them credit deep state absolutely exists because it's them. 

 

[roadkill1292]

In a similar vein ...

Yes, Ornato could easily clear up this minor point with two quick phone calls, one to CNN and one to Fox.

It's fairly important to note that Ornato had been hired away from the Secret Service to be Trump's Deputy Chief of Staff. He's since returned to the USSS but I'm told that's a fairly unusual act of line crossing.

It may be more likely that Donald was just yelling at Engel when Engel refused to take him to the Capitol. Yawn.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Blasey Ford’s testimony was a first hand account. You just wrote that you’re willing to give heavy weight to first hand accounts. 

You doscounted Blasey Ford because she couldn’t remember certain details and it was 35 years ago. Yet she remembered the important part- that Brett Kavanaugh tried to rape her. In the final analysis, the only way you could have discounted her testimony is if you believed she was lying. That’s why I asked you if you believed she was lying. It wasn’t for virtue points. It was the only logical result of your comments at the time. 

Pretty sure I just gave a detailed post where I said 

My position was similar in that her motivation wasnt as important as the fact that she was relaying a 35 year old story that was missing more details than it had. Our default position should be rejection 

35 year old stories missing tons of details will almost always be horribly incorrect. Motivations mean nothing. 

They are also almost impossible to defend fairly.

Which is why my default position is rejection. This is mostly the legal position too. (I am aware of exceptions where there is no statute of limitations)

Your question of "is she lying" has no bearing. It is nothing more than an attempt to play a sexism card or whatever other dumb cards you guys play.

 

[roadkill1292]

And if the committee didn't get this confirmed with Engel and Ornato beforehand, that's pretty sloppy. But one error doesn't invalidate everything else we've heard.

 

[pantherclub]

on Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that three agents who were with Trump in the vehicle dispute that he “assaulted or grabbed at the leader of his security detail or that he grabbed for the steering wheel,” according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with the agents’ accounts. Various outlets also reported that Ornato and Bobby Engel, the lead Secret Service agent in the vehicle, are willing to testify to the committee disputing Hutchinson’s account.

So........did she lie on purpose?

 

[JIslander]

Pretty sure I just gave a detailed post where I said 

My position was similar in that her motivation wasnt as important as the fact that she was relaying a 35 year old story that was missing more details than it had. Our default position should be rejection 

35 year old stories missing tons of details will almost always be horribly incorrect. Motivations mean nothing. 

They are also almost impossible to defend fairly.

Which is why my default position is rejection. This is mostly the legal position too. (I am aware of exceptions where there is no statute of limitations)

Your question of "is she lying" has no bearing. It is nothing more than an attempt to play a sexism card or whatever other dumb cards you guys play.

Its a "dumb / sexism card" to ask if you think she's lying?  Just give your best answer

 

[Prinefan]

So........did she lie on purpose?

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see his answer,  If yes? he's full-on "Trump-blind".  If not, he's trolling.

 

[parasaurolophus]

lol of course, why would you

Right. I wouldn't. Because I realize she could 100% think she is telling the truth and be relaying false information. Hell she could think she is lying and be telling the truth. 

So why would it matter? 

Judge: Mr Matlock that's hearsay. 

Matlock: but judge I really believe she is an honest person. 

Judge: well sure then, since the defense attorney that isn't a part of this trial didn't object, I will allow it. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

And if the committee didn't get this confirmed with Engel and Ornato beforehand, that's pretty sloppy. But one error doesn't invalidate everything else we've heard.

Not sure if you saw this, but I posted upthread a June 8 article in which a source claimed Engel testified to the committee that there was a disagreement with Trump, while sitting in the Beast, over whether to go to the WH or Capitol. No mention of some of the specific details recounted by Hutchinson, but it does seem the committee had confirmation

 

[roadkill1292]

on Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that three agents who were with Trump in the vehicle dispute that he “assaulted or grabbed at the leader of his security detail or that he grabbed for the steering wheel,” according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with the agents’ accounts. Various outlets also reported that Ornato and Bobby Engel, the lead Secret Service agent in the vehicle, are willing to testify to the committee disputing Hutchinson’s account.

I support getting them fully on the record about that little drive. And if the committee won't seek their accounts, I support them going on a major news show to force the committee's hand.

But this remains way down on the list of importance. It pails in light of other things we've learned.

 

[Desert_Power]

 

Yep. Making this thread unreadable, as I'm sure is the objective.

 

[roadkill1292]

Not sure if you saw this, but I posted upthread a June 8 article in which a source claimed Engel testified to the committee that there was a disagreement with Trump, while sitting in the Beast, over whether to go to the WH or Capitol. No mention of some of the specific details recounted by Hutchinson, but it does seem the committee had confirmation

I did indeed see that. Whether or not Trump grabbed at somebody in the front seat isn't really important.

What's important is if it's true that 45 demanded to be taken to the Capitol. The other stuff is just being used to discredit Hutchinson because that's all they got.

 

[ZADO]

So........did she lie on purpose?

how would i know ? 

 

[JIslander]

Right. I wouldn't. Because I realize she could 100% think she is telling the truth and be relaying false information. Hell she could think she is lying and be telling the truth. 

So why would it matter? 

Judge: Mr Matlock that's hearsay. 

Matlock: but judge I really believe she is an honest person. 

Judge: well sure then, since the defense attorney that isn't a part of this trial didn't object, I will allow it. 

not speaking for @pantherclub here, but I suspect the comment was "why would you" as its clear there's vested interest only in owning the libs here versus getting to the truth of J6

 

[roadkill1292]

"If Cassidy Hutchinson was such an important person in the White House, why didn't she call in the National Guard?!"

 

[ZADO]

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see his answer,  If yes? he's full-on "Trump-blind".  If not, he's trolling.

nobody answered my question either

If everyone knew about what might happen why didnt she say something sooner to someone in charge of the capital and why wouldnt Pelosi know what everyone else seemed to know and act accordingly? 

 

[ZADO]

"If Cassidy Hutchinson was such an important person in the White House, why didn't she call in the National Guard?!"

or at the very least someone in the know 

 

[JIslander]

"If Cassidy Hutchinson was such an important person in the White House, why didn't she call in the National Guard?!"

Right --this whole is either on Hutcheson or Pelosi -- end of story

 

[roadkill1292]

or at the very least someone in the know 

 People with actual authority already knew about the problems. The question now is why didn't POTUS use his to give the Capitol the protection it needed.

Because if, as we suspect, Don withheld additional law enforcement to give the mob a better chance to injure or intimidate Congress and the Veep, he needs to go to jail.

 

[parasaurolophus]

"If Cassidy Hutchinson was such an important person in the White House, why didn't she call in the National Guard?!"

I love that this was just dropped in without reference. I am saying that seriously. 

You forced me to Google the quote and experience the feeling of "please let this be an actual non sarcastic trump quote. Or at least a family member" 

 

[Chaz McNulty]

on Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that three agents who were with Trump in the vehicle dispute that he “assaulted or grabbed at the leader of his security detail or that he grabbed for the steering wheel,” according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with the agents’ accounts. Various outlets also reported that Ornato and Bobby Engel, the lead Secret Service agent in the vehicle, are willing to testify to the committee disputing Hutchinson’s account.

So they are willing to testify that no one told Hutchison that Trump grabbed at the person or steering wheel?

 

[lazyike]

This tweet from Trump----hang on, this.....truth from Trump is classic:

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1542108117902565377?t=DJOGF8V6ggUNrfOTKQo0SQ&s=19 

"I don't even know this Cassidy person, except I've heard very bad things about her"

I have some very bad things about her mostly and especially from myself!

 

[lazyike]

This tweet from Trump----hang on, this.....truth from Trump is classic:

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1542108117902565377?t=DJOGF8V6ggUNrfOTKQo0SQ&s=19 

"I don't even know this Cassidy person, except I've heard very bad things about her"

Triple post!

 

[lazyike]

This tweet from Trump----hang on, this.....truth from Trump is classic:

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1542108117902565377?t=DJOGF8V6ggUNrfOTKQo0SQ&s=19 

"I don't even know this Cassidy person, except I've heard very bad things about her"

Triple post

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Plus - is it me or are we making too big a deal out of the incident in the beast?  That's nothing compared to the actions regarding supporters with AR's

Not sure if you saw this, but I posted upthread a June 8 article in which a source claimed Engel testified to the committee that there was a disagreement with Trump, while sitting in the Beast, over whether to go to the WH or Capitol. No mention of some of the specific details recounted by Hutchinson, but it does seem the committee had confirmation

The Beast is the limo. They weren't in the Beast.

 

[zoonation]

I'm not saying that what has been said so far isn't damning - certainly is, but we've heard all of this before.

When are we going to get an actual smoking gun that is going to finally fulfill the WE GOT 'EEM NOW we've been promised over and over and over again?

Trump has always been the focus of all of this - not side characters and supporting cast.  If you can't get Trump then what is all of this for?  So he won't run again?  That's not even remotely what were were promised over the last 6 years.

If you can't get Trump, then you've failed once again. 

We've heard testimony from someone who heard Trump directly order that the magnetometers stop being used so his armed supporters could make his crowd look bigger?  this was the first time I've heard that evidence.   

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The Beast is the limo. They weren't in the Beast.

Is it? I thought I saw somewhere that "the Beast" is like "Air Force One", used to describe whatever vehicle POTUS is currently in. But even as I type this it doesn't sound plausible

 

[Prinefan]

nobody answered my question either

If everyone knew about what might happen why didnt she say something sooner to someone in charge of the capital and why wouldnt Pelosi know what everyone else seemed to know and act accordingly? 

None of us actually know that answer and wouldn't want to give you misinformation by trying to answer.  I'm sure it will be addressed in time.  Now back to Pantherclub's question to you?  Do you believe she lied?

BTW-Pelosi's a Democrat.  Only the Republicans knew blood was about to be spilled.

 

[massraider]

We've heard testimony from someone who heard Trump directly order that the magnetometers stop being used so his armed supporters could make his crowd look bigger?  this was the first time I've heard that evidence.   

Narrator:

This, in fact, had not been heard before.

 

[zoonation]

The secret service are going to make that woman look really bad lol

To think what she said was even remotely believable 

They will never testify.  You are being fished.  They don't get to come before congress and answer only that specific question.  they would open themselves up to a plethora of questions about a whole variety of topics.  Which is why they will never do it. 

And, as Tim has said, there is no credible source confirming they actually want to testify.  It's PR move 101: cite an unverifiable source which claims they want to testify.  Get it into the spin cycle.  Have people (like you) take the bait knowing they will never question how the story got out there in the first place and, when they ultimately do not testify (which they won't), they know your opinion will already be formed and remain unchanged despite the complete lack of any credible evidence.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

on Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that three agents who were with Trump in the vehicle dispute that he “assaulted or grabbed at the leader of his security detail or that he grabbed for the steering wheel,” according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with the agents’ accounts. Various outlets also reported that Ornato and Bobby Engel, the lead Secret Service agent in the vehicle, are willing to testify to the committee disputing Hutchinson’s account.

I haven't seen any outlet report that Ornato or Engel are willing to testify.

I've seen a number of outlets report that an unnamed source says that Ornato and Engel are willing to testify.

If we're being sticklers about hearsay, we should phrase that right.

 

[Dickies]

There are a lot of posts to read through. It appears they have gotten their talking points

 

[Prinefan]

We've heard testimony from someone who heard Trump directly order that the magnetometers stop being used so his armed supporters could make his crowd look bigger?  this was the first time I've heard that evidence.   

He actually knew they were armed when he said to remove the mags.  "They're not here to hurt me".

 

[sho nuff]

nobody answered my question either

If everyone knew about what might happen why didnt she say something sooner to someone in charge of the capital and why wouldnt Pelosi know what everyone else seemed to know and act accordingly? 

Did she not testify as to bringing it up to her boss, Meadows?

 

[massraider]

Is it? I thought I saw somewhere that "the Beast" is like "Air Force One", used to describe whatever vehicle POTUS is currently in. But even as I type this it doesn't sound plausible

I think they just call it the Big Car now. 

Since 2017 they're using The Beast as code whenever a bucket of extra crispy KFC arrives at the West Wing via Grubhub now. 

 

[pantherclub]

how would i know ? 

What do you think?  Because you most certainly are implying she is lying

 

[Tom Skerritt]

I'd hate to be married to some of you people. The tireless defensiveness and deflection is nauseating.

Was thinking this very same thing this morning. I feel very badly for their wives and children. Must be an oppressive household. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The Beast: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/trump-s-new-limo-cost-16m-comes-fridge-his-blood-n912841

According to Wikipedia, the presidential limo was nicknamed The Beast during the Bush II and Trump administrations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_state_car_(United_States)#:~:text=Bush's presidential state car was,use and one for backup.

I don't know what it's called now. But the nickname didn't refer to the SUV.