Zyphros
Footballguy
Team B just did another.
Team B gave: Ellington, Hurns
Team C gave: Olsen, Sankey, 2015 4th, 2016 4th
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
*** OFFICIAL *** 13/14 Off-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Concept Coop
- Start date
Team B gave: Ellington, Hurns
Team C gave: Olsen, Sankey, 2015 4th, 2016 4th
cstu
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Even if they did end up at QB4/TE4 for the long-haul, would that still be worth it?Adam Harstad said:
Current QB4/TE4 in FBG consensus rankings are Matt Stafford and Jordan Cameron. Would you trade Aaron Rodgers for those two on a rebuilding team? I dunno, I guess it's "fair" in a sense, but I wouldn't do it.
I like Jordan Reed too, but I'm only going to give up a stud in a trade for a true difference making tight end a la Graham/Gronk. That's what Reed has to become to really make him a valuable dynasty piece. If he's the next Vernon Davis, a consistently top 5 ranked TE from year to year....meh. Reed could become the next Graham/Gronk, but it's a longshot.
The same goes for RG3 and QBs. Unless you're a true difference maker then I don't see a ton of difference between QB4 and QB8 or QB12.
I think people are starting to see Rodgers as oldish because he's 30. But he's still likely got 6-8 years left. That's similar to a guy like Demaryius Thomas or Eddie Lacy in terms of length of career left.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I agree with you on Rodgers' value. I've got him in my top 10 overall, (one of only two staffers to do so, in fact). I have a much higher opinion of Jordan Reed than you do (he put up identical per-game stats to Keenan Allen last year at a position where the baseline is substantially lower and where rookies are substantially less likely to do anything of note). I also think that there's a mighty huge gap between "Gronk/Graham" and "not a valuable dynasty piece", and that Jordan Reed would have no trouble settling into that range.
I can easily see both sides of the Rodgers for Griffin/Reed trade, and there are plenty of situations where I'd be happy to make that trade in either direction. I was mostly just taking major exception to the characterization of Griffin and Reed as "a bunch of mediocre players".
I will go against the masses and say I like Colston.
I think the 2 years Colston can put up is way better than anything Wallace will ever put up in a season. Age be gone when your dealing with getting the player with the way higher point upside for the next 2 years.
Turbo Punch
Footballguy
12 team PPR
Gave Gerhardt, G Tate, 2015 3rd
Got Jeremy Hill, Paul Richardson, 2015 2nd
Gave Gerhardt, G Tate, 2015 3rd
Got Jeremy Hill, Paul Richardson, 2015 2nd
Last edited by a moderator:
One More Rep
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
One More Rep
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'd pay that for RG3. I'm not convinced that Floyd is a future WR1 and still see RG3 as a foundation piece at QB.
pghrob
Hail to the Chief
12 team, 25 man rosters, all td's = 6 pts, PPR.
Start q,r,r,w,w,t,f,d/st,k
Team A gives Mike Wallace
Team B gives If Mike Wallace finishes this season (2014) in top 12 of wr scoring of dynasty league, then team A gets B's 2015 first round rookie pick. Anything less then it's B's 2015 2nd round rookie pick. Team B has fairly good team and should be in bottom half of rookie draft.
Start q,r,r,w,w,t,f,d/st,k
Team A gives Mike Wallace
Team B gives If Mike Wallace finishes this season (2014) in top 12 of wr scoring of dynasty league, then team A gets B's 2015 first round rookie pick. Anything less then it's B's 2015 2nd round rookie pick. Team B has fairly good team and should be in bottom half of rookie draft.
r0llin_game
Footballguy
With the season finally starting, please post your trades here:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=712887
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=712887
Thank you for the measured and thoughtful response here - I appreciate anyone who can place all players in a reasonable light. My league has accuracy-based scoring for QBs (2 points completion, -1 point attempt) in addition to 5 point TD passes and 25 yards/point for passers. QBs that are heavy volume passers and over 65% accurate are gods, so the Drew Brees' of the world are vastly superior to the dual-threat Cam Newtons of the world. It's a 60 year cap league, and Bridgewater and Janis had no contract yet (we have taxi squads where you can park a rookie, but players can be "stolen" from it with future draft picks). Bell has one year left and Allen two. But we have extensions to keep beyond the life of the original contract, and a player whose contract is up will garner a rookie draft compensation pick commensurate with his finish in the rankings at that position.
Either way, I added much needed depth for my team this year by making that trade, so I have no regrets. And I really like Allen in TE premium leagues like mine. But it has inspired in me a reconsideration on my dynasty philosophy:
I think Bridgewater's skill set and abilities are such that he stands a chance of some day getting into the upper echelon of passers in my format. I traded him, however, because I'm starting to question the wisdom of waiting for a rookie QB to develop into that type of player (a more acute issue for contract-dynasty leagues). It seems to take most rookie passers a while to develop, by which time much of the advantage of being able to award a long contract is worn out (we have 5 year max contracts, you can only award one per season, and I had drafted Watkins in this case). The owner of Luck is still waiting for him to take the step up into the next level, in part b/c Hamilton's system is lower volume. The Russell Wilson owner appears likely to have to wait another year as well b/c Seattle runs so well and has a dominant defense. The RG3 owner is panicking b/c the new regime in Washington is employing a system that is less amenable to his skill set. Meanwhile, the Phil Rivers owner happily watched him finish third in scoring in our system last year while he spent his first round draft pick on Eddie Lacy.
I am taking the time to follow up here because I'm curious about your (and many of the Football Guys) philosophy on drafting/developing QBs in dynasty. Is any QB worth drafting because he is in the right system? Norv seems like the right guy for Bridgewater to develop, but Norv has bounced around quite a bit. Peterson's possible retirement in a few years might open up more chances to pass, but that's far from certain and requires layers of speculation and projection. The window on QBs is open so much longer than RBs, I wonder if it isn't worth it to just sell the farm to trade for an elite QB after they've developed, knowing you'll have a chance to rebuild your roster elsewhere more quickly. I know many of the website guys argue for building a core of WRs, but in the Accuracy QB scoring the really good QBs ARE a scarce commodity - which is why rookies get hopefully (and desperately) over-valued.
Regards,
S^2
Scoonie Pencil
Footballguy
QRRWWWTFKD TE Premium, 12 devy picks/year that are part of the rookie draft
Team A Receives: Josh Gordon, Andre Ellington
Team B Receives: Michael Floyd, Lache Seastrunk
Team C Receives: Terrence Williams, 2015 1st (probably mid-to-late)
Team D Receives: Ryan Matthews, 2015 3rd (probably mid-to-late)
Team A Receives: Josh Gordon, Andre Ellington
Team B Receives: Michael Floyd, Lache Seastrunk
Team C Receives: Terrence Williams, 2015 1st (probably mid-to-late)
Team D Receives: Ryan Matthews, 2015 3rd (probably mid-to-late)
Last edited by a moderator:
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Now, I'm not really familiar with your scoring system and what kind of ramifications it would have on positional rankings, but my philosophy on QBs is to assume that, if they're any good, they'll at least be contributing by their second year as a starter. Tom Brady was widely panned as a game manager early in his career, but he finished 10th, 11th, and 11th in his 2nd-4th seasons. In fact, pretty much every eventual top-10 QB winds up with a startable fantasy season within his first two years under center. There are exceptions (Drew Brees wasn't startable, from a fantasy standpoint, until his third year, and Ben Roethlisberger was dynamite his first two years but didn't have the volume to make a fantasy impact), but they're rare. If Teddy Bridgewater is the real deal, he should be giving low-end QB1 production within the next two-three years. Or, to put it another way, unless Bridgewater is a bust, you should be able to get 2+ startable seasons out of him on a 4-year contract. Again, I'm not familiar with your scoring system, but according to PFR, Luck/Griffin/Wilson have so far combined for five top-12 finishes in standard scoring, including a 5th place finish by Griffin and a 4th place finish by Luck. IF Bridgewater is any good, he'll likely be producing similarly by 2015 or, if he takes a little bit longer to develop, 2016 at the latest.
As far as making that jump to true first-tier QB production... that jump is never a sure thing. Some guys make it, some guys don't. A lot of really good QBs never make it, which is why I had Drew Brees over Andrew Lucky for the last two years- I thought Luck was a stellar prospect, but there's no guarantees he'll ever reach the heights Brees is performing at, even if Luck lived up to expectations on the field. In that respect, if you really want that elite, high-end production, the only really reliable way to acquire it is to trade for a proven stud like Peyton, Rodgers, or Brees. It's just a matter of determining whether that's the best use of resources, or whether you're better off settling from second-tier QB production on the cheap and using those resources to upgrade elsewhere.
This is very good advice and pretty much how I treat QB's in most leagues.
I especially agree with the part having a solid starter is enough and using resources to improve at other positions is the best way to improve your team. It is great having one of the elite options but sometimes the cost to acquire that asset can be spent better somewhere else
Last edited by a moderator:
Like Team A's haul even though I am a big Floyd believer. Loses on Floyd>Ellington a little but big difference between Gordon and Seastrunk
I might sell Matthews for TWill straight up let alone a 2015 1st. Nice deal
One More Rep
Footballguy
I prefer the 1st looking at next years class but do like Ball by quite a bit over Stacy
One More Rep
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
bishop sankey, branden oliver, a later looking 1st (probably 1.11-1.13) and a small defensive upgrade for gio bernard. 16 teams, RBs .5 ppr.
One More Rep
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Best dynasty move Ive made in a long while. Really proud of that swing, as I had TOTAL faith in Evans...
Also turned that 2015st + another for Alshon.
Really rebuilt that team I took over quite well (bunch of other moves too, inc getting Gordon)... Not gonna finish too high this year, maybe 3rd-5th place but feel like next year Im set up to win
