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I really don't get this sentiment. He took over a 6-10 Giants team and went 10-5-1 the very next year. In his fourth year he took a fairly mediocre team to the Super Bowl. He had a winning record in NY and made the playoffs in 3 out of 7 years. What exactly is bad about that?
Yep, this is a theater production now. They won't name a HC until the DC and OC are also in place. So negotiating problems with Zorn and Ryan are holding up hiring a coach. Absolutely ####### stupid. Just hire a head coach. Then hire coordinators. Other teams do it this way, including teams that finish ahead of Washington in the standings. Trying to work out all the details of all the hires before the first one is announced is childish. Are they then going to take bids for podiums to go at the news conference, and work that out before all the hires are announced as well?
They should be shot anyway.
I don't like it because, alot of the parts are in place. Now how many guys won't restructure? Will Flecther wanna leave? If we where going to start all over. Why not give Cowher everything the he wanted, or what ever it took, to get him to comeback. Are there any Giants, that are Fassel guys? Strahan, Toomer? Did Synder take Fassel, because, Fassel can be a puppet? This is bad. BAD, BAD,BAD!!!!Soomething good however, Cerrato WAS NOT at Senior Bowl!!! But neither was Fassel. Zorn and Ryan where there!
I'm familiar with this poster over there and he and his friend - who appears to be affiliated with the Browns in some sort of scouting capacity - seem to be legit. This doesn't surprise me in the least.
My impression is that Fassel is Norv-lite. By that I mean that he, like Norv had some initial success (and obviously more success than Norv did by getting to the Super Bowl), but over time his soft manner lost him the respect and control of the players, and that proved to be his downfall. Norv may be too harsh of a comparison now that I type that idea out, but anyway that seems to be what happened. I don't know that Fassel is a horrible head coaching candidate - using some Redskins history I'd liken him to Jack Pardee, who was neither good nor bad, as evidence by his 24-24 record. What I don't like about him is that he's a compromise who manages to fail to accomplish either of two main goals that I think the team should have in choosing its next coach: maintain as much stability and continuity as possible, and hire a guy who has a shot not just to be a decent coach for a short time, but a very good coach for a long time. To me, Williams' strength is on the first point, though he may be able to meet the criteria of the second given his age and hopefully the lessons learned under Gibbs; Spagnuolo would represent a shot at the second that forsakes the first goal almost totally, as there would be a makeover of the entire coaching staff at a minimum.
I know not everyone in this thread is a 'Skins fan, but the mental image I have of us while this search lingers on is a group of men standing outside in the cold huddling around one of those oil drums that has a fire inside it, warming our hands together, waiting for news.
Oh yeah, the other thing the PFT guy said this morning was that teams can no longer trade picks for anything other than HC and GM, so they won't be trading a pick for Ryan.
Of course, I'd love Cowher much more and especially if he could get some of the people he had around him in PIT. I just don't think that he's an option. He probably doesn't think the Redskins organization is stable enough to want to even hear what Danny has to offer. So, I wouldn't caompare Fassel or anyone to him because I just don't think it's a fair comparison.As for some of the players leaving or not restructuring...they all realize in the end that this is a business. If they are getting paid good money that they are not sure they can get elsewhere...in the end that is the most important part for each of them. Again, I'm not a Fassel supporter...just will be more open to it, IF he comes with several experienced guys who show promise. I just don't want another Marvin Lewis situation where Rex Ryan comes and is DC for one year and then gets a HC gig.
Don't forget the bottles in the paper bags. And don't bogart.redman said:I know not everyone in this thread is a 'Skins fan, but the mental image I have of us while this search lingers on is a group of men standing outside in the cold huddling around one of those oil drums that has a fire inside it, warming our hands together, waiting for news.
Don't forget the bottles in the paper bags. And don't bogart.redman said:I know not everyone in this thread is a 'Skins fan, but the mental image I have of us while this search lingers on is a group of men standing outside in the cold huddling around one of those oil drums that has a fire inside it, warming our hands together, waiting for news.
Red, you make a REAL good point here. To be honest it really scares me too. Fassel is kind of like Norv and the thought of Norv or Norv Jr is just plain old scary. Bone chilling terror at that! I am one that is not in favor of Greg Williams though. I think he hasn't shown much in BUF and I wonder about him even as a DC. I pointed out before that I'd welcome Fassel if he came w/ experienced assist coaches, but don't want to see another Marvin Lewis situation where Rex Ryan comes to WAS for one year and then gets a HC gig after. What a mess...BTW - Move over a bit...I'm not getting any heat from the fire in the oil drum.redman said:
Maybe we need a :fireinanoildrum: smilie.redman said:I know not everyone in this thread is a 'Skins fan, but the mental image I have of us while this search lingers on is a group of men standing outside in the cold huddling around one of those oil drums that has a fire inside it, warming our hands together, waiting for news.
In the meantime, this will have to do:Maybe we need a :fireinanoildrum: smilie.redman said:I know not everyone in this thread is a 'Skins fan, but the mental image I have of us while this search lingers on is a group of men standing outside in the cold huddling around one of those oil drums that has a fire inside it, warming our hands together, waiting for news.
That would definitely throw a monkey wrench into the 'Skins plans.
Andyman = Karl Swanson, in the team's PR/marketing dept. All you'll get from him is the company line here.
Confirmed?
That's long been the speculation and it's pretty much universally accepted in the ES world.
When we got Norv, he was Spagnulo, not Fassel. Fassel is more like hiring Norv when San Diego did. Now, I know the jury is far from out on Norv Turner 2008, but I do think it's clear that he's a better coach now than he was in 2000. A lot of bad things happened to the Chargers in the playoffs, and he still made some excellent playcalls (while his game management decisions still weren't his strong suit).I don't think we can assume that Fassel's weaknesses in the past will be his weakness with the Skins. Nor am I sure his failure with the Ravens means much as we have no idea how much leeway Offensive Genius and Extra Special Buddy Brian Billick gave him. I know I personally felt several times in the past three years that Boller was about to turn a corner and the Ravens cut him off at the knees every time.Red, you make a REAL good point here. To be honest it really scares me too. Fassel is kind of like Norv and the thought of Norv or Norv Jr is just plain old scary. Bone chilling terror at that! I am one that is not in favor of Greg Williams though. I think he hasn't shown much in BUF and I wonder about him even as a DC. I pointed out before that I'd welcome Fassel if he came w/ experienced assist coaches, but don't want to see another Marvin Lewis situation where Rex Ryan comes to WAS for one year and then gets a HC gig after. What a mess...BTW - Move over a bit...I'm not getting any heat from the fire in the oil drum.
Regardless, the rest of the press is pretty much COMPLETELY in the dark and he's got the inside word, not just speculation. Company line or not, it's more than what we hear from the likes of Schefter.That said, I just read his only relevant post since his absence and I got nothing out of it
You're a bit kinder to Norv than I am. The 2007 version of Norv - Norv 3.0 - inherited a 14-2 team with as much talent on the roster as any team in the NFL and won 11 games with them - three fewer than last year. The thing he should be proudest of, and rightfully so, are the two playoff wins, particularly the second one @ Indy with backups in the game. I also think the game @ NE was an excellent effort and is another feather in his cap. But again, I think it's still relatively easy to look good coaching that team. Anyway, I agree that when Norv was first hired, it was comparable to Spaguolo in that he was a hot, young assistant who was getting his first head coaching job with the hopes he'd turn out to be great. Joe Gibbs was the same way, as was Spurrier though he was hired from the college ranks. I have no problem with the hiring of Norv in 1994 - nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I've made clear my position that the best chance you have to find a great coach is to be the team that is the first to hire a young, untested coach. My complaint about the team's handling of Norv was its unreasonably long retention of him when the team was clearly not responding to him and taking the proverbial next step. He should have been fired after the 1997 season, or certainly after the 1998 season.When we got Norv, he was Spagnulo, not Fassel. Fassel is more like hiring Norv when San Diego did. Now, I know the jury is far from out on Norv Turner 2008, but I do think it's clear that he's a better coach now than he was in 2000. A lot of bad things happened to the Chargers in the playoffs, and he still made some excellent playcalls (while his game management decisions still weren't his strong suit).I don't think we can assume that Fassel's weaknesses in the past will be his weakness with the Skins. Nor am I sure his failure with the Ravens means much as we have no idea how much leeway Offensive Genius and Extra Special Buddy Brian Billick gave him. I know I personally felt several times in the past three years that Boller was about to turn a corner and the Ravens cut him off at the knees every time.Red, you make a REAL good point here. To be honest it really scares me too. Fassel is kind of like Norv and the thought of Norv or Norv Jr is just plain old scary. Bone chilling terror at that! I am one that is not in favor of Greg Williams though. I think he hasn't shown much in BUF and I wonder about him even as a DC. I pointed out before that I'd welcome Fassel if he came w/ experienced assist coaches, but don't want to see another Marvin Lewis situation where Rex Ryan comes to WAS for one year and then gets a HC gig after. What a mess...BTW - Move over a bit...I'm not getting any heat from the fire in the oil drum.
He'll occasionally give inside info, but invariably that info is fun and benign as to the team's interests (e.g. "big player signing announcement coming soon!"). No way in hell does he spill something that jeopardizes the team's plans here via a premature, unauthorized disclosure, especially on something as critical as a head coaching search.Regardless, the rest of the press is pretty much COMPLETELY in the dark and he's got the inside word, not just speculation. Company line or not, it's more than what we hear from the likes of Schefter.That said, I just read his only relevant post since his absence and I got nothing out of it
The expectation here is both that he'll be ready before training camp - likely working out during at least some of the mini-camps, and will enter next season as the starter. I think the vast majority of 'Skins fans would agree with me on that. Fortunately, his injury is non-surgical, and he was already making progress in rehab while the team was still playing, though he was still weeks away from being able to practice and play.
What tipped you off, the near-rioting in the streets?
Zorn isn't someone I've paid much attention to, but apparently he's been an impressive up-and-comer in the assistant coaching ranks for a while, so much so that it appears that the Seahawks are aggressively trying to keep him on. Ironically, I'm far more interested in someone like Zorn being our head coach than someone like Fassel, though I think the best choice for a variety of reasons is Williams.
Um, seriously... don't head coaches generally get to pick their own offensive and defensive coordinators? Are Snyder and Cerrato going to be hiring the new coaches' interior decorators too?Why would anybody take this ###### ####### job?
There has to be some type of internal problem with Williams and Snyder right? I just cant see breaking up the coaching staff and starting over as a good thing for a young offense. Seems like the Skins were right on the verge of something special.......as a Cowboys fan I dont mind seeing that taken down before it gets going any better....What tipped you off, the near-rioting in the streets?Zorn isn't someone I've paid much attention to, but apparently he's been an impressive up-and-comer in the assistant coaching ranks for a while, so much so that it appears that the Seahawks are aggressively trying to keep him on. Ironically, I'm far more interested in someone like Zorn being our head coach than someone like Fassel, though I think the best choice for a variety of reasons is Williams.
I'm with you - I don't understand what's going on, but I don't like how it's looking more and more likely that the person they hire will be entirely remaking the coaching staff. And I agree that the team seemed to be building towards being at least a pretty good team, though I know that not all 'Skins fans agree.There has to be some type of internal problem with Williams and Snyder right? I just cant see breaking up the coaching staff and starting over as a good thing for a young offense. Seems like the Skins were right on the verge of something special.......as a Cowboys fan I dont mind seeing that taken down before it gets going any better....What tipped you off, the near-rioting in the streets?
Rumor has it that it's Cerrato, but who knows. The Redskins have been more reclusive and stand-offish than cold war Russia since Gibbs retired. The longer this goes on, the more clear it's not going to be Williams. He's a pretty prideful person, I can't imagine him taking it after all of this nonsense unless there has been a guarantee in private prior to now.
I'm not sure that makes any sense beyond this point though. What would they be guaranteeing to him that would also placate him through a further wait to interview someone like Spagnuolo?"Hey Gregg, you're our guy, and you'll get the offer, but we want to wait two more weeks to interview Spags. Don't worry. Really."
It was a real big reach on a conspiracy theory level, only thing I can think of is they're keeping it a secret as a ruse to get these other interviews in hopes of bringing them in as a DC under him. But yeah...that's a monumental reach and makes no sense at all...but then again, nothing over the past 2 weeks has made sense.In other words, why wait any longer if you know that Gregg's your guy?
I don't see how that would work.
I'm with you - it doesn't make sense. I sure hope that Snyder and Co. are crazy like a fox, because all I see is crazy right now.It was a real big reach on a conspiracy theory level, only thing I can think of is they're keeping it a secret as a ruse to get these other interviews in hopes of bringing them in as a DC under him. But yeah...that's a monumental reach and makes no sense at all...but then again, nothing over the past 2 weeks has made sense.In other words, why wait any longer if you know that Gregg's your guy?
I don't see how that would work.
I agree that my problem with Norv was that he had a losing record against everyone in the division (counting Arizona, who was still in the NFC East). For some reason, he kept staying around and we kept on heading down the road of "no direction." Add that there was no dicipline on the team in his tenure and enough was enough!You're a bit kinder to Norv than I am. The 2007 version of Norv - Norv 3.0 - inherited a 14-2 team with as much talent on the roster as any team in the NFL and won 11 games with them - three fewer than last year. The thing he should be proudest of, and rightfully so, are the two playoff wins, particularly the second one @ Indy with backups in the game. I also think the game @ NE was an excellent effort and is another feather in his cap. But again, I think it's still relatively easy to look good coaching that team. Anyway, I agree that when Norv was first hired, it was comparable to Spaguolo in that he was a hot, young assistant who was getting his first head coaching job with the hopes he'd turn out to be great. Joe Gibbs was the same way, as was Spurrier though he was hired from the college ranks. I have no problem with the hiring of Norv in 1994 - nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I've made clear my position that the best chance you have to find a great coach is to be the team that is the first to hire a young, untested coach. My complaint about the team's handling of Norv was its unreasonably long retention of him when the team was clearly not responding to him and taking the proverbial next step. He should have been fired after the 1997 season, or certainly after the 1998 season.When we got Norv, he was Spagnulo, not Fassel. Fassel is more like hiring Norv when San Diego did. Now, I know the jury is far from out on Norv Turner 2008, but I do think it's clear that he's a better coach now than he was in 2000. A lot of bad things happened to the Chargers in the playoffs, and he still made some excellent playcalls (while his game management decisions still weren't his strong suit).I don't think we can assume that Fassel's weaknesses in the past will be his weakness with the Skins. Nor am I sure his failure with the Ravens means much as we have no idea how much leeway Offensive Genius and Extra Special Buddy Brian Billick gave him. I know I personally felt several times in the past three years that Boller was about to turn a corner and the Ravens cut him off at the knees every time.Red, you make a REAL good point here. To be honest it really scares me too. Fassel is kind of like Norv and the thought of Norv or Norv Jr is just plain old scary. Bone chilling terror at that! I am one that is not in favor of Greg Williams though. I think he hasn't shown much in BUF and I wonder about him even as a DC. I pointed out before that I'd welcome Fassel if he came w/ experienced assist coaches, but don't want to see another Marvin Lewis situation where Rex Ryan comes to WAS for one year and then gets a HC gig after. What a mess...BTW - Move over a bit...I'm not getting any heat from the fire in the oil drum.
The more I think of it...the media isn't helping. I think JLC and a few others are making the process crazy or more like a circus than the FO. I will say that the FO is not helping matters with the way some things are being done, but if it wasn't for pure speculation being reported constantly as almost FACT, then the fans would be on the edge of their seat about everything. The process itself has become tiresome in that everything is being reported now like "THIS IS IT!"I'm with you - it doesn't make sense. I sure hope that Snyder and Co. are crazy like a fox, because all I see is crazy right now.It was a real big reach on a conspiracy theory level, only thing I can think of is they're keeping it a secret as a ruse to get these other interviews in hopes of bringing them in as a DC under him. But yeah...that's a monumental reach and makes no sense at all...but then again, nothing over the past 2 weeks has made sense.In other words, why wait any longer if you know that Gregg's your guy?
I don't see how that would work.
It has no doubt contributed, but I'm not convinced that everything they've been reporting has been off the mark. For example, are we sure that they weren't about to hire Fassel, such that the additional rumors about Ryan and Zorn joining him on his coaching staff were all fictitious? I posted this on the Extremeskins board, but it applies here:The more I think of it...the media isn't helping. I think JLC and a few others are making the process crazy or more like a circus than the FO. I will say that the FO is not helping matters with the way some things are being done, but if it wasn't for pure speculation being reported constantly as almost FACT, then the fans would be on the edge of their seat about everything. The process itself has become tiresome in that everything is being reported now like "THIS IS IT!"I'm with you - it doesn't make sense. I sure hope that Snyder and Co. are crazy like a fox, because all I see is crazy right now.It was a real big reach on a conspiracy theory level, only thing I can think of is they're keeping it a secret as a ruse to get these other interviews in hopes of bringing them in as a DC under him. But yeah...that's a monumental reach and makes no sense at all...but then again, nothing over the past 2 weeks has made sense.In other words, why wait any longer if you know that Gregg's your guy?
I don't see how that would work.
conspiracy theories abound, anyone else think they're using the press leaks to their advantage?Either they're leaking the info to gauge fan reaction, or maybe they're doing this to ease the blow of Williams not being the guy by naming Fassel...all of the fans freak, then they announce the real person and we all breathe a sigh of relief. This just needs to be over with...I'm losing my sanity...I hate conspiracy theories.The more I think of it...the media isn't helping. I think JLC and a few others are making the process crazy or more like a circus than the FO. I will say that the FO is not helping matters with the way some things are being done, but if it wasn't for pure speculation being reported constantly as almost FACT, then the fans would be on the edge of their seat about everything. The process itself has become tiresome in that everything is being reported now like "THIS IS IT!"
For a long time, it was Vinny who had the reputation as being the biggest leaker out in Ashburn. He'd operate like someone in the Clinton White House, leak stuff to make an opponent look bad or see how it went over with "plausible deniability". So I wonder if some of these leaks on the HC search are coming right from the top.conspiracy theories abound, anyone else think they're using the press leaks to their advantage?Either they're leaking the info to gauge fan reaction, or maybe they're doing this to ease the blow of Williams not being the guy by naming Fassel...all of the fans freak, then they announce the real person and we all breathe a sigh of relief. This just needs to be over with...I'm losing my sanity...I hate conspiracy theories.The more I think of it...the media isn't helping. I think JLC and a few others are making the process crazy or more like a circus than the FO. I will say that the FO is not helping matters with the way some things are being done, but if it wasn't for pure speculation being reported constantly as almost FACT, then the fans would be on the edge of their seat about everything. The process itself has become tiresome in that everything is being reported now like "THIS IS IT!"
Dictators don't care what you think, they do what they want to do. They surely don't look for approval from anyone, but themselves.
