***Official 2011 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[CentralPA]

I still think Reid survives bc the FO will 'blame' Dijon, VYoung and Castillo and they will all be elsewhere next year. I will support all change including dumping Reid bc he let the stink of loser get on this team with all the blown 4 th quarter leads and now the team is left injury plagued and hapless for the rest of the year.

Yes, unfortunately he and the rest of the staff (minus Castillo, he better not be there next year) are probably going to stay. No matter how bad it gets. I guess he may have earned that right but after some of the lamebrain crap he has been pulling this year it's hard for me to agree with him still being head coach. His time has gotten stale. I'm at the point where it might be time to blow this thing up and move in a new direction.

 

[The_Man]

One other thing I've learned from the Ravens -- the way to build long-term, sustainable success is to draft well then break the bank to retain your homegrown blue chip players, instead of using that money to chase after some other team's stars. Drafting well gives you a constant crop of good players who are a relative bargain until their rookie deal ends. And that frees up the cap room to fairly reward your homegrown stars when the time comes, ensuring locker room harmony. The Ravens let good players go all the time (LeRon McClain, Todd Heap, Kelly Gregg this year alone) because it gave them the money to lock up Ngata long-term. Just like they've let Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard and Ovie Mughelli and other guys go to keep Suggs and Ed Reed. In chasing after other team's high-priced guys, the Eagles haven't taken care of a home-grown star like Jackson, and now they're paying the price in internal strife. They need to draft better, and pay guys like Jackson and McCoy, even if it means they can't chase expensive free agents.

You left out Leaders. That's the biggest thing Baltimore has that we don't, IMO. Aquiring the young talent is still necessary but you also need some structure.While I think and believe Jackson has the talent it's not what everyone thinks. He's a glorified deep-threat. The NFL will figure everyone out and in doing so they just play a man over Jackson and dare him to go over the middle...and he's to scared to do so.Since you're a Baltimore fan could you weigh in on a guy like Chuck Pagano? Anything about him would be appreciated. TIA

This is the first I've heard of Pagano getting any head coaching buzz, but it could be a genius pick. I would hate to lose him but I guess that would be fair compensation for Harbaugh, right? The Ravens players talk about him the exact same way they talked about Rex, how much they love and respect him, and would go through a wall for him. But he's much less of a personality than Rex was as Defensive Coordinator, which I think is a good thing. He's only a first-year DC, but the players say some very interesting things about his gameplanning -- that he does a great job of setting up schemes that enable every single player to take advantage of what his individual strengths are. More than that, they say he does a great job of analyzing his own defense's weaknesses and anticipates how opposing offenses will try to exploit those weaknesses, then comes up with plans to counter those attacks. It's almost like he's baiting a trap for them. Last year the Ravens had 27 sacks all season, with 15 Forced Fumbles, and 19 INTs. This year, in 11 games, they have 38 sacks, 16 Forced Fumbles and 12 INTs.The Ravens run a 3-4, not a 4-3, as someone above mentioned. I think he could be a very interesting pick even with just one year of experience as a coordinator. I'm sure he could pluck a really good Ravens defensive assistant coach to be his D coordinator in Philly. He'd have to find an offensive guru to turn that whole side of the operation over to.

 

[Jason Wood]

Most of you know I've long defended Andy, but I thought that last night would tell the tale.

Unfortunately, it told the wrong story. Andy has lost this team. It happens, and to Reid's credit he held that from happening long enough to become the longest tenured coach in the league.

But he's leaving IMHO. Barring winning out, I honestly think he'll be gone next year now.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

One other thing I've learned from the Ravens -- the way to build long-term, sustainable success is to draft well then break the bank to retain your homegrown blue chip players, instead of using that money to chase after some other team's stars. Drafting well gives you a constant crop of good players who are a relative bargain until their rookie deal ends. And that frees up the cap room to fairly reward your homegrown stars when the time comes, ensuring locker room harmony. The Ravens let good players go all the time (LeRon McClain, Todd Heap, Kelly Gregg this year alone) because it gave them the money to lock up Ngata long-term. Just like they've let Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard and Ovie Mughelli and other guys go to keep Suggs and Ed Reed. In chasing after other team's high-priced guys, the Eagles haven't taken care of a home-grown star like Jackson, and now they're paying the price in internal strife. They need to draft better, and pay guys like Jackson and McCoy, even if it means they can't chase expensive free agents.

You left out Leaders. That's the biggest thing Baltimore has that we don't, IMO. Aquiring the young talent is still necessary but you also need some structure.While I think and believe Jackson has the talent it's not what everyone thinks. He's a glorified deep-threat. The NFL will figure everyone out and in doing so they just play a man over Jackson and dare him to go over the middle...and he's to scared to do so.Since you're a Baltimore fan could you weigh in on a guy like Chuck Pagano? Anything about him would be appreciated. TIA

This is the first I've heard of Pagano getting any head coaching buzz, but it could be a genius pick. I would hate to lose him but I guess that would be fair compensation for Harbaugh, right? The Ravens players talk about him the exact same way they talked about Rex, how much they love and respect him, and would go through a wall for him. But he's much less of a personality than Rex was as Defensive Coordinator, which I think is a good thing. He's only a first-year DC, but the players say some very interesting things about his gameplanning -- that he does a great job of setting up schemes that enable every single player to take advantage of what his individual strengths are. More than that, they say he does a great job of analyzing his own defense's weaknesses and anticipates how opposing offenses will try to exploit those weaknesses, then comes up with plans to counter those attacks. It's almost like he's baiting a trap for them. Last year the Ravens had 27 sacks all season, with 15 Forced Fumbles, and 19 INTs. This year, in 11 games, they have 38 sacks, 16 Forced Fumbles and 12 INTs.The Ravens run a 3-4, not a 4-3, as someone above mentioned. I think he could be a very interesting pick even with just one year of experience as a coordinator. I'm sure he could pluck a really good Ravens defensive assistant coach to be his D coordinator in Philly. He'd have to find an offensive guru to turn that whole side of the operation over to.

I'm not sure even if there is a buzz for him. Adding him was just me looking at successful units around the league and seeing who may get some of the attention.Thanks for the 3-4 clarification. I thought there was a time where they went back and fourth from a 3-4 to 4-3 but wasn't sure.Thanks again for the info, it's appreciated

 

[Amused to Death]

Most of you know I've long defended Andy, but I thought that last night would tell the tale.Unfortunately, it told the wrong story. Andy has lost this team. It happens, and to Reid's credit he held that from happening long enough to become the longest tenured coach in the league.But he's leaving IMHO. Barring winning out, I honestly think he'll be gone next year now.

Letting Seattle run the clock down before kicking the FG at the end of the 1st half without calling a TO just seemed like Andy was raising the white flag. And when asked about in the post-game PC, he got all indignant with the reporter, like "how dare you ask such a stupid question". If he really wants to take responsibility for the team, he has to answer that question. Its a legitimate question Andy. Take responsibility and answer it.

 

[Insein]

As a Baltimore fan, watching this year's Eagles team is like watching a replay of the 2007 Ravens. In 2006, they went 13-3. In 2007, they started 4-2, but then Steve McNair got hurt, and they ended up losing 9 straight (including at winless Miami) before finishing at 5-11. It was clear that Billick had to go, even though he had just signed a huge contract extension before the season. Guys had tuned him out, stopped trying, etc. It was hard, but it was the best thing for the franchise -- and I think the Eagles need a similar reboot.One other thing I've learned from the Ravens -- the way to build long-term, sustainable success is to draft well then break the bank to retain your homegrown blue chip players, instead of using that money to chase after some other team's stars. Drafting well gives you a constant crop of good players who are a relative bargain until their rookie deal ends. And that frees up the cap room to fairly reward your homegrown stars when the time comes, ensuring locker room harmony. The Ravens let good players go all the time (LeRon McClain, Todd Heap, Kelly Gregg this year alone) because it gave them the money to lock up Ngata long-term. Just like they've let Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard and Ovie Mughelli and other guys go to keep Suggs and Ed Reed. In chasing after other team's high-priced guys, the Eagles haven't taken care of a home-grown star like Jackson, and now they're paying the price in internal strife. They need to draft better, and pay guys like Jackson and McCoy, even if it means they can't chase expensive free agents.

Well said on both parts. Getting rid of a successful coach is not the end of the world. Sometimes change is necessary. Billick is way happier being an analyst now and a young up and comer like Jon Harbaugh got a shot. Ravens are still contenders. There's no reason the Eagles can't follow the same success (except that the Ravens have way better talent evaluators in drafting). The leaders part comes from having guys grow up on the team. You can't buy a leader from another team unless they are naturally built to be one. A guy like Troy vincent is a natural leader and it took him a few seasons to grow into the role and be comfortable enough to be looked upon as one for the Eagles in the early 2000's. Dawkins was a natural leader by example. He grew up on this team and became his by the time Andy got here. McNabb was not a leader but he had seniority and was a guy to look to. He had more leadership than we are seeing right now though. When you sign a bunch of new guys and throw them in with a bunch of young players, then there is no leaders. Its just a group of guys aimlessly moving around or just trying to get theirs regardless of everyone else.

 

[Insein]

Most of you know I've long defended Andy, but I thought that last night would tell the tale.Unfortunately, it told the wrong story. Andy has lost this team. It happens, and to Reid's credit he held that from happening long enough to become the longest tenured coach in the league.But he's leaving IMHO. Barring winning out, I honestly think he'll be gone next year now.

Letting Seattle run the clock down before kicking the FG at the end of the 1st half without calling a TO just seemed like Andy was raising the white flag. And when asked about in the post-game PC, he got all indignant with the reporter, like "how dare you ask such a stupid question". If he really wants to take responsibility for the team, he has to answer that question. Its a legitimate question Andy. Take responsibility and answer it.

I laughed when he did it because I knew he would. Its embarassing when an NFL head coach has a worse sense of clock management than an average Madden player.

 

[babydemon90]

At a minimum, Andy as GM needs to end. Sure, he's been good at getting rid of players that are past their prime, but they've been horrible at getting those blue-chip players in the middle rounds.

 

[delusional]

Most of you know I've long defended Andy, but I thought that last night would tell the tale.Unfortunately, it told the wrong story. Andy has lost this team. It happens, and to Reid's credit he held that from happening long enough to become the longest tenured coach in the league.But he's leaving IMHO. Barring winning out, I honestly think he'll be gone next year now.

How no one was fired today is beyond me.

 

[Saint]

I like Riley Cooper..

But does like mean he's an NFL starter? Would Riley Cooper be a #1 or #2 on any team is this league right now? Does he project to be in the next 2 years? Riley cooper is a white Hank Baskett.

I don't think we draft a tall white guy in the 5th round as a WR #1 or WR #2. All I'm saying is I like Cooper as a decent WR #3/#4 that can stretch the field and presents a good target. Don't be a hater.

Yes but I asked if any of those guys were NFL starting calibur talent. I like Cooper as a 4th WR because thats what he gives you. Those last drafts have yielded 0 (ZERO) starting calibur players. Usually teams can hang their hat on at least 1 guy that they know can be plugged in. Kelce I guess is that guy but how much is it him being good and how much is it being hand picked by Mudd to be his prototypical center? The 2010 draft is a complete bust right now. We can say Nate Allen might be servicable one day but we could have had Earl Thomas. These have been the 2 worst drafts of Reid's tenure and thats saying something.

My viewpoint is if you make the 53-man roster and can play on the field, I consider that starting talent. So IMO, Cooper is starting caliber. I think he has better hands and body control than Hank Baskett. I also think he's a different mold than Maclin/Jackson and it's a good fit in the offense. If you are asking if we drafted guys that are BREAKOUT solid #1s/#2s then I agree with you. I was not enraptured with the pickup of Brandon Graham. As a matter of fact I was screaming for Earl Thomas... but oh well... we see how that worked out. Nate Allen has been streaky at best.No disagreement on the number of misses in early rounds, but again, to the original point, my context was NFL caliber and I consider WR3/4 NFL caliber. I don't know much on the OL/DL, other than the fact Watkins is finally starting and has struggled from my understanding.

 

[CentralPA]

At a minimum, Andy as GM needs to end. Sure, he's been good at getting rid of players that are past their prime, but they've been horrible at getting those blue-chip players in the middle rounds.

I thought Roseman had total control over that now. I didn't think Andy had any GM power for several years.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Yes, the last two drafts are Roseman's. Now, how much of them were based on input from Andy, I dunno.

 

[delusional]

Yes, the last two drafts are Roseman's. Now, how much of them were based on input from Andy, I dunno.

Dont know what is worse, a lawyer drafting our team or andy reid...even worse, both of them together

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Yes, the last two drafts are Roseman's. Now, how much of them were based on input from Andy, I dunno.

Dont know what is worse, a lawyer drafting our team or andy reid...even worse, both of them together

And then they BOTH deferred to Howard Mudd for their first pick this past year...

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I know it's early and just for the sake of discussion if we go 4-12 or 5-11 and are in a position to draft Luck, Barkley, Griffen or Jones would you? This is supposed to be a great year for QB's and we are only really tied to Vick for one more season and he isnt getting any younger.

Just curious...I got the idea from here

ETA:

This is assuming they all come out and I only added Luck because who knows where he goes and what could happen between now and April.

 

[renesauz]

I don't quite get all the comments in here. The defense got gashed by Lynch, but no more than I was expecting. The O-line played well, and McCoy was Sanders-esque.

The D-line played hard (not their fault our LBs and Safeties suck). MOST of the team was playing hard...and got hamstrung by 2 horrific interceptions by Vince Young. Take those 2 away and Philly wins that game.

Young had the decency to look distraught after his 3rd pick (the 2nd horrific one). He is what we thought he was...a second string QB playing (poorly) on the road.

Desean Jackson, on the other hand....needs to be benched. We no longer need his services this year, or any other.

 

[renesauz]

I know it's early and just for the sake of discussion if we go 4-12 or 5-11 and are in a position to draft Luck, Barkley, Griffen or Jones would you? This is supposed to be a great year for QB's and we are only really tied to Vick for one more season and he isnt getting any younger.

Just curious...I got the idea from here

ETA:

This is assuming they all come out and I only added Luck because who knows where he goes and what could happen between now and April.

NO chance at luck...but Barkley is intriguing.............

 

[Insein]

I know it's early and just for the sake of discussion if we go 4-12 or 5-11 and are in a position to draft Luck, Barkley, Griffen or Jones would you? This is supposed to be a great year for QB's and we are only really tied to Vick for one more season and he isnt getting any younger.

Just curious...I got the idea from here

ETA:

This is assuming they all come out and I only added Luck because who knows where he goes and what could happen between now and April.

I would take a very long look at a QB. The question is, who will be coaching and who will be drafting by then? If its Andy, then not a chance. If its a new guy, then its almost guaranteed he'll want to bring in his QB.

 

[Saint]

I don't quite get all the comments in here. The defense got gashed by Lynch, but no more than I was expecting. The O-line played well, and McCoy was Sanders-esque.The D-line played hard (not their fault our LBs and Safeties suck). MOST of the team was playing hard...and got hamstrung by 2 horrific interceptions by Vince Young. Take those 2 away and Philly wins that game.Young had the decency to look distraught after his 3rd pick (the 2nd horrific one). He is what we thought he was...a second string QB playing (poorly) on the road.Desean Jackson, on the other hand....needs to be benched. We no longer need his services this year, or any other.

I'm a mad eagles fan now... If they don't spend some high draft picks on LBs.. I will be really really pissed. The reality is, whether or not we like it, we have Vick another year. I like Kafka, I think we can do something with him. We absolutely need to address the LB position and it has to be top guys and not some 5th/6th round picks.

 

[scratcher]

The Case Against Keeping Andy ReidBy Tommy LawlorThis isn’t my definitive opinion. Rather, this is a logical case for why Reid should be let go. I’ve intentionally avoided many generic criticisms that I think are tired, overused, and sometimes inaccurate. I will post the argument for keeping Reid in a day or so. No matter which side you agree with, I don’t think this is an easy decision. “The problem is nostalgia. It’s like a drug. It keeps you from seeing things the way they are and that’s a danger when you got people depending on you.” – quote from a recent episode of The Walking Dead.Andy Reid is not a good coach. He is a very, very good coach. Maybe great. Some people believe you must win a Super Bowl in order to be considered a great coach. If that’s the standard, then Reid is just below that level. No matter how you slice it, the man has had a remarkable career and brought a lot of success to the Eagles organization.The question facing Eagles owner Jeff Lurie isn’t about Reid’s past and his many accomplishments. The question is this: is Andy Reid the right coach for the Eagles in 2012 and beyond? We saw Andy Reid lead Donovan McNabb, Terrell Owens, and Brian Westbrook to the Super Bowl. Can he do that with Michael Vick, DeSean Jackson, and LeSean McCoy? There are serious reasons to doubt this. The last playoff game the Eagles won was a divisional round matchup with the Giants after the 2008 season. Since then the team lost to Dallas and Green Bay in the wildcard round. This year…no playoffs at all.Think about that 2008 team. Donovan McNabb was the quarterback. He had won more than a few playoff games in his Eagles career. The line featured Tra Thomas, Jon Runyan, and Jamaal Jackson. Those weren’t just veteran players, but they were also team leaders. Remember Westbrook going to the ground at the 1-yard line in the 2007 game at Dallas? Westy got the credit for that, but it was Runyan who “ordered” him to do it in the huddle prior to the play.The defense was led by a crew of veteran DBs, Sheldon Brown, Quintin Mikell, and of course Brian Dawkins. Those guys lacked top speed, but blown assignments were few and far between. Trent Cole was the lone star of the front seven, but that group knew how to play the run and didn’t make many mistakes. The mastermind of the defense was Jim Johnson.Andy Reid came to the Eagles in 1999. He was an offensive guy and knew that he needed a veteran coach to run the defense. Reid might have been the head coach, but Johnson ran the defense. He controlled that side of the ball and didn’t need any guidance. He knew the X’s and O’s. Just as importantly, he knew how to run a defense. Johnson understood how to wield power. He knew that there were times to be tough and times to be nice. He was a leader. He took ownership of that side of the ball. It might have been Andy Reid’s Eagles, but it was Jim Johnson’s defense.The 2011 Eagles couldn’t be more different from the 2008 Eagles. When adversity hit the ’08 group, they rallied around the leaders and the team came alive down the stretch. They made it all the way to the NFC title game and lost a close game at Arizona. That team struggled with 4th quarter comebacks. They kept games close, but couldn’t get over the hump late in games. The 2011 Eagles are blowing leads. They can’t stop teams from getting over the hump. The 2011 team isn’t faced with adversity. They go seek it out. They track it down and embrace it. Getting the lead is supposed to be the hard part of life in the NFL, not keeping it. Want to sum up the 2011 Eagles in a phrase?When push comes to shoveThe Eagles turn to dovesLife for Reid hasn’t been as good without his veteran core of players and his legendary Defensive Coordinator. The team has continued to win (until this year), but the success has been marginal rather than special. The last bye in the playoffs was 2004. That was also the last team to win 12 or more games.Reid made some brilliant decisions when he was first hired by the Eagles. He surrounded himself with a mixture of coaches. There were veterans and young guys. There were friends and strangers. The coaches came from a variety of backgrounds so there were a lot of interesting ideas on the table. Look back at the original staffHC – Andy ReidOC – Rod DowhowerDC – Jim JohnsonQB – Brad ChildressRB – Ted WilliamsWR – David CulleyTE – Pat ShurmurOL – Juan CastilloQC – Tom MelvinDL – Tommy BrasherLB – Ron RiveraDB – Leslie FrazierQC – Steve SpagnuoloST – Jim HarbaughThat group has produced 6 NFL head coaches. Johnson turned down some interviews or it could have been 7. Amazing.One of the ways you judge a coach is by who he hires. That shows the ability to find good people and to make sound decisions. Reid suffered from his own success. That coaching staff got pulled apart as the guys got new jobs. At first, Reid did okay with replacing them. He hired or promoted Marty Mornhinweg, Pete Jenkins, Trent Walters, and Sean McDermott. These coaches were “good enough” at the very least.Then Reid hit a real rocky patch. He hired a slew of coaches that didn’t work out. Rory Segrest, Ted Braisher, Mike Reed, Bill Shuey, and James Urban all spent time on the staff, but are now gone. Reid’s mojo for making great hires seems to be a thing of the past.He did make some good new hires starting in 2010. Reid brought in Bobby April to be the Special Teams coach. April is acknowledged as one of the STs gurus in the league. This wasn’t a guess on Reid’s part. He paid big bucks for a proven coach. Reid did the same thing after the 2010 season when he brought in Howard Mudd to run the offensive line and Jim Washburn to run the defensive line. For lack of a better term, these guys are star coaches. Go back to the original staff. No one could be described in such a way. That group had plenty of successful veterans, but not guys who were huge names.Reid was a longtime college assistant before joining the Green Bay staff in 1992. He developed a lot of relationships over the years. He had a good feel for which coaches were highly thought of in the coaching world. That background helped build the great staff of 1999. Now Reid is an established head coach. People no longer talk to him the same way. Since Reid is in a position to hire, he doesn’t get straight talk. He’s now “sold” on other coaches. Everyone wants him to hire a buddy or relative. Either Reid trusted the wrong people or he’s just lost his ability to read people and know who’s selling and who isn’t.To combat this, Reid filled vacancies with people he directly knew. Mike Caldwell was a LB on the early Reid teams and is now the LBs coach. Mike Zordich played for the Eagles, but left just as Reid got here. He did serve as an intern in recent years and is now coaching the Safeties. Johnnie Lynn ran the Giants defense when John Fox left. Reid gameplanned and coached against him plenty. Lynn is now the CBs coach. Duce Staley is on the staff, working with the RBs. Is this the best way to build a staff or is it the football version of nepotism? You can argue both ways, but I don’t think 31 other teams are all that jealous of the staff that Reid has put together.Jim Johnson’s death was tough for obvious reasons. Just about everyone loved him. His death was a huge blow to the football side of things as well. Reid thought he had the perfect replacement in Sean McDermott. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case. McDermott struggled with trying to fill Johnson’s shoes, both as an X’s and O’s guy and as a leader. After 2 mediocre seasons, he was fired. Reid then made one of the strangest decisions in recent memory. He gave the DC job to Juan Castillo. A lot of people have stated that making the OL coach the DC is unprecedented. That is wrong. The English language does not have a word to correctly describe this move. Maybe the Inuits do. Maybe there is a Gaelic phrase or something in Aramaic. Not English.The Castillo experiment has failed. I won’t fully go into the thinking behind the move. That’s a lengthy column in and of itself. I’ll simply say that at a time when Reid needed to make a great move, he went with someone he trusted rather than someone who was trained to do the job. Trust is great, but it isn’t as important as training and ability. This is, after all, the NFL…the best of the best.Reid loves the phrase “I need to put my players in better position to succeed”. Too bad that doesn’t apply to the coaching staff. If Chad Hall begged to play QB, would Reid put him in? Chad was recruited to the Air Force Academy to play QB. Give him a shot. So what if he lacks the size, skills, and experience to do the job. He wants it. Of course Reid would never make a move like this.After the 2006 season John Harbaugh talked to Reid about moving from STs coach to a defensive spot. Harbaugh was made the DBs coach for the 2007 season. He then got hired by the Ravens to be their HC in 2008. Reid helped a friend. He moved him to a defensive assistant spot in order to further the guy’s career. That was smart and the right thing to do.Castillo has asked Andy for years to move him to defense, where Castillo played and coached early on in his career. Had Andy made him the LBs coach, that would have been reasonable.Making Castillo the DC did a dis-service to Juan, the defense, the whole team, and Andy himself. Reid knew he had all new positional assistants. He knew there was a lockout and likely to be a short offseason, if any. These circumstances would have been hard on Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson, or Jim Johnson. They were devastating to Castillo. And the Eagles.Think back for a minute to the Eagles teams of 2000-03. The team went to the playoffs each year. They won division titles from 2001-03. Would you trade the talent of those teams for the talent of the current roster? I wouldn’t. The results, yes, but not the pure talent. Those teams were very different from the current bunch.The Eagle way used to be playing good defense, being sound in the kicking game, and finding ways to win. The offense didn’t turn the ball over. The team didn’t make many mistakes. Penalties weren’t a huge issue. The skill players weren’t great, but dropped passes weren’t a regular problem. Those Eagles made you beat them. They didn’t help you out. There was a real toughness about those teams. They were physically, mentally, and emotionally tough. All for one and one for all. They played Eagles football.The 2002 season was the greatest indicator. Donovan McNabb broke his lower leg vs Arizona. Koy Detmer started in his place at SF on a Monday night game. The team came out laser sharp and had total control of the game. Detmer got hurt about halfway through. He was put on a cart. Before it pulled away, the whole team came over to slap hands with him. I had never seen that before. Now, it is somewhat common. That was the ultimate sign of how together that team was. They loved each other. AJ Feeley stepped in for Detmer and finished that win. He then went 4-1 as a starter. The rest of the team picked up their game to help the young QB along. That was Eagles football.2011? You have a proven veteran like Vince Young who can’t get the job done. He struggles. His receivers aren’t helping him out. The defense isn’t coming up big. This isn’t Eagles football. I don’t know what the hell this is. 53 guys wear the same jersey, but they don’t play as one.Andy Reid and his coaches were able to create a certain mindset and atmosphere on those early teams. Being a Philadelphia Eagle meant something. Too many guys now love to put on the jersey, but don’t do the little things it takes to make the jersey mean something. You don’t win because you’re an Eagle. You win by playing Eagles football, something that hasn’t really been here since 2008.Remember when Andy Reid was innovative and interesting? The main reason he hired Jim Johnson was because he loved JJ’s blitzing. Reid wanted a defense that could attack and be creative. Under JJ’s tutelage, Brian Dawkins went from being a FS to being a weapon. Teams were nervous about playing the Eagles. The team ended Michael Irvin’s career in 1999. The next year they started Troy Aikman on the road to retirement by knocking him out of the season opener and causing him to miss the next 2 games. That was Troy’s final year.The offense did some good things. Reid didn’t have great players, but he got the most out of his weapons. The ghost reverse first hit the NFL in 2001. Reid liked the idea and stole it. He knew that to make it really work you needed to hand the ball to the WR from time to time so that defenses would honor that threat. How many people remember that James Thrash had 18 carries in 2002? He ran for 2 TDs. That year the Eagles finished 5th in rushing attempts and 7th in yards. Reid was innovative with the run game. In 2003 he had the 3-headed monster in the backfield, turning Duce, Westy, and Correll Buckhalter into one terrific RB.STs used to be wild. Koy Detmer was great on fake FGs. The Eagles ran some brilliant fake FGs back in those days. Detmer optioned to David Akers for 15 yards in 2002. My favorite was an over the shoulder flip to Akers in 2000. Brian Dawkins scored a long TD on a fake punt in 2002. And of course there was the onside kick to open the 2000 season. That is part of Eagles history.Not only was that a great STs move, it was a great psychological move. Reid wanted to show his players that it was time to be aggressive. Reid rolled the dice and that onside kick helped to jump start an era of great success. When is the last time Reid did anything remotely close to that? I don’t mean making a risky call. When is the last time he tried pushing the button of the team in an open way?Reid is famous for punishing OG George Hegamin back in the summer of 1999. Hegamin made him angry one day. Reid punished him by having Hegamin drive the sled up and down the field for an afternoon. The next day, Reid cut him. In the middle of the 1999 season Reid wasn’t happy that DT Bill Johnson was laughing in the locker room after a miserable 33-7 loss to the Carolina Panthers. Johnson was cut the next day. Reid had control of the locker room. He had control of the team. He knew what buttons to push to scare or encourage the team. I don’t think you see any of that anymore.Andy has good relationships with his players. Guys love to come here. They want to play for Reid. He has a terrific reputation around the league. Maybe that is part of the problem. Football teams aren’t supposed to be full of love. The reason Jim Burt doused Bill Parcells with the initial bucket of Gatorade wasn’t to celebrate. It was Burt’s way of saying “F you!”. Parcells had ridden Burt a lot that year and Burt was sick of it. Charles Haley hated Jimmy Johnson with a passion. They didn’t “not get along”. There was real, pure hatred. Both Parcell and Johnson won Super Bowls with those players. Tom Coughlin and Plaxico Burress will never go on vacation together. They won a SB. A locker room needs to be functional, not happy.Andy Reid has a tremendous track record. No one disputes that. Unfortunately, the skills he used to build up that record no longer seem to be present. He hasn’t made great hires. He doesn’t seem to have the pulse of the team. He hasn’t done a good job of pushing buttons to get the team going. You wouldn’t consider him to be innovative or creative based on recent years. Rather than making the most of what he’s got to work with, Reid now delivers a mediocre product made from some really good parts. The Eagles have become underachievers, one of the worst things you can say to a coach about his team.

 

[Insein]

The Case Against Keeping Andy Reid

By Tommy Lawlor

Andy Reid has a tremendous track record. No one disputes that. Unfortunately, the skills he used to build up that record no longer seem to be present. He hasn’t made great hires. He doesn’t seem to have the pulse of the team. He hasn’t done a good job of pushing buttons to get the team going. You wouldn’t consider him to be innovative or creative based on recent years. Rather than making the most of what he’s got to work with, Reid now delivers a mediocre product made from some really good parts. The Eagles have become underachievers, one of the worst things you can say to a coach about his team.

That pretty much sums it up right there. Good read.

 

[dhockster]

The Case Against Keeping Andy ReidBy Tommy LawlorThis isn’t my definitive opinion. Rather, this is a logical case for why Reid should be let go. I’ve intentionally avoided many generic criticisms that I think are tired, overused, and sometimes inaccurate. I will post the argument for keeping Reid in a day or so. No matter which side you agree with, I don’t think this is an easy decision. “The problem is nostalgia. It’s like a drug. It keeps you from seeing things the way they are and that’s a danger when you got people depending on you.” – quote from a recent episode of The Walking Dead.Andy Reid is not a good coach. He is a very, very good coach. Maybe great. Some people believe you must win a Super Bowl in order to be considered a great coach. If that’s the standard, then Reid is just below that level. No matter how you slice it, the man has had a remarkable career and brought a lot of success to the Eagles organization.The question facing Eagles owner Jeff Lurie isn’t about Reid’s past and his many accomplishments. The question is this: is Andy Reid the right coach for the Eagles in 2012 and beyond? We saw Andy Reid lead Donovan McNabb, Terrell Owens, and Brian Westbrook to the Super Bowl. Can he do that with Michael Vick, DeSean Jackson, and LeSean McCoy? There are serious reasons to doubt this. The last playoff game the Eagles won was a divisional round matchup with the Giants after the 2008 season. Since then the team lost to Dallas and Green Bay in the wildcard round. This year…no playoffs at all.Think about that 2008 team. Donovan McNabb was the quarterback. He had won more than a few playoff games in his Eagles career. The line featured Tra Thomas, Jon Runyan, and Jamaal Jackson. Those weren’t just veteran players, but they were also team leaders. Remember Westbrook going to the ground at the 1-yard line in the 2007 game at Dallas? Westy got the credit for that, but it was Runyan who “ordered” him to do it in the huddle prior to the play.The defense was led by a crew of veteran DBs, Sheldon Brown, Quintin Mikell, and of course Brian Dawkins. Those guys lacked top speed, but blown assignments were few and far between. Trent Cole was the lone star of the front seven, but that group knew how to play the run and didn’t make many mistakes. The mastermind of the defense was Jim Johnson.Andy Reid came to the Eagles in 1999. He was an offensive guy and knew that he needed a veteran coach to run the defense. Reid might have been the head coach, but Johnson ran the defense. He controlled that side of the ball and didn’t need any guidance. He knew the X’s and O’s. Just as importantly, he knew how to run a defense. Johnson understood how to wield power. He knew that there were times to be tough and times to be nice. He was a leader. He took ownership of that side of the ball. It might have been Andy Reid’s Eagles, but it was Jim Johnson’s defense.The 2011 Eagles couldn’t be more different from the 2008 Eagles. When adversity hit the ’08 group, they rallied around the leaders and the team came alive down the stretch. They made it all the way to the NFC title game and lost a close game at Arizona. That team struggled with 4th quarter comebacks. They kept games close, but couldn’t get over the hump late in games. The 2011 Eagles are blowing leads. They can’t stop teams from getting over the hump. The 2011 team isn’t faced with adversity. They go seek it out. They track it down and embrace it. Getting the lead is supposed to be the hard part of life in the NFL, not keeping it. Want to sum up the 2011 Eagles in a phrase?When push comes to shoveThe Eagles turn to dovesLife for Reid hasn’t been as good without his veteran core of players and his legendary Defensive Coordinator. The team has continued to win (until this year), but the success has been marginal rather than special. The last bye in the playoffs was 2004. That was also the last team to win 12 or more games.Reid made some brilliant decisions when he was first hired by the Eagles. He surrounded himself with a mixture of coaches. There were veterans and young guys. There were friends and strangers. The coaches came from a variety of backgrounds so there were a lot of interesting ideas on the table. Look back at the original staffHC – Andy ReidOC – Rod DowhowerDC – Jim JohnsonQB – Brad ChildressRB – Ted WilliamsWR – David CulleyTE – Pat ShurmurOL – Juan CastilloQC – Tom MelvinDL – Tommy BrasherLB – Ron RiveraDB – Leslie FrazierQC – Steve SpagnuoloST – Jim HarbaughThat group has produced 6 NFL head coaches. Johnson turned down some interviews or it could have been 7. Amazing.One of the ways you judge a coach is by who he hires. That shows the ability to find good people and to make sound decisions. Reid suffered from his own success. That coaching staff got pulled apart as the guys got new jobs. At first, Reid did okay with replacing them. He hired or promoted Marty Mornhinweg, Pete Jenkins, Trent Walters, and Sean McDermott. These coaches were “good enough” at the very least.Then Reid hit a real rocky patch. He hired a slew of coaches that didn’t work out. Rory Segrest, Ted Braisher, Mike Reed, Bill Shuey, and James Urban all spent time on the staff, but are now gone. Reid’s mojo for making great hires seems to be a thing of the past.He did make some good new hires starting in 2010. Reid brought in Bobby April to be the Special Teams coach. April is acknowledged as one of the STs gurus in the league. This wasn’t a guess on Reid’s part. He paid big bucks for a proven coach. Reid did the same thing after the 2010 season when he brought in Howard Mudd to run the offensive line and Jim Washburn to run the defensive line. For lack of a better term, these guys are star coaches. Go back to the original staff. No one could be described in such a way. That group had plenty of successful veterans, but not guys who were huge names.Reid was a longtime college assistant before joining the Green Bay staff in 1992. He developed a lot of relationships over the years. He had a good feel for which coaches were highly thought of in the coaching world. That background helped build the great staff of 1999. Now Reid is an established head coach. People no longer talk to him the same way. Since Reid is in a position to hire, he doesn’t get straight talk. He’s now “sold” on other coaches. Everyone wants him to hire a buddy or relative. Either Reid trusted the wrong people or he’s just lost his ability to read people and know who’s selling and who isn’t.To combat this, Reid filled vacancies with people he directly knew. Mike Caldwell was a LB on the early Reid teams and is now the LBs coach. Mike Zordich played for the Eagles, but left just as Reid got here. He did serve as an intern in recent years and is now coaching the Safeties. Johnnie Lynn ran the Giants defense when John Fox left. Reid gameplanned and coached against him plenty. Lynn is now the CBs coach. Duce Staley is on the staff, working with the RBs. Is this the best way to build a staff or is it the football version of nepotism? You can argue both ways, but I don’t think 31 other teams are all that jealous of the staff that Reid has put together.Jim Johnson’s death was tough for obvious reasons. Just about everyone loved him. His death was a huge blow to the football side of things as well. Reid thought he had the perfect replacement in Sean McDermott. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case. McDermott struggled with trying to fill Johnson’s shoes, both as an X’s and O’s guy and as a leader. After 2 mediocre seasons, he was fired. Reid then made one of the strangest decisions in recent memory. He gave the DC job to Juan Castillo. A lot of people have stated that making the OL coach the DC is unprecedented. That is wrong. The English language does not have a word to correctly describe this move. Maybe the Inuits do. Maybe there is a Gaelic phrase or something in Aramaic. Not English.The Castillo experiment has failed. I won’t fully go into the thinking behind the move. That’s a lengthy column in and of itself. I’ll simply say that at a time when Reid needed to make a great move, he went with someone he trusted rather than someone who was trained to do the job. Trust is great, but it isn’t as important as training and ability. This is, after all, the NFL…the best of the best.Reid loves the phrase “I need to put my players in better position to succeed”. Too bad that doesn’t apply to the coaching staff. If Chad Hall begged to play QB, would Reid put him in? Chad was recruited to the Air Force Academy to play QB. Give him a shot. So what if he lacks the size, skills, and experience to do the job. He wants it. Of course Reid would never make a move like this.After the 2006 season John Harbaugh talked to Reid about moving from STs coach to a defensive spot. Harbaugh was made the DBs coach for the 2007 season. He then got hired by the Ravens to be their HC in 2008. Reid helped a friend. He moved him to a defensive assistant spot in order to further the guy’s career. That was smart and the right thing to do.Castillo has asked Andy for years to move him to defense, where Castillo played and coached early on in his career. Had Andy made him the LBs coach, that would have been reasonable.Making Castillo the DC did a dis-service to Juan, the defense, the whole team, and Andy himself. Reid knew he had all new positional assistants. He knew there was a lockout and likely to be a short offseason, if any. These circumstances would have been hard on Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson, or Jim Johnson. They were devastating to Castillo. And the Eagles.Think back for a minute to the Eagles teams of 2000-03. The team went to the playoffs each year. They won division titles from 2001-03. Would you trade the talent of those teams for the talent of the current roster? I wouldn’t. The results, yes, but not the pure talent. Those teams were very different from the current bunch.The Eagle way used to be playing good defense, being sound in the kicking game, and finding ways to win. The offense didn’t turn the ball over. The team didn’t make many mistakes. Penalties weren’t a huge issue. The skill players weren’t great, but dropped passes weren’t a regular problem. Those Eagles made you beat them. They didn’t help you out. There was a real toughness about those teams. They were physically, mentally, and emotionally tough. All for one and one for all. They played Eagles football.The 2002 season was the greatest indicator. Donovan McNabb broke his lower leg vs Arizona. Koy Detmer started in his place at SF on a Monday night game. The team came out laser sharp and had total control of the game. Detmer got hurt about halfway through. He was put on a cart. Before it pulled away, the whole team came over to slap hands with him. I had never seen that before. Now, it is somewhat common. That was the ultimate sign of how together that team was. They loved each other. AJ Feeley stepped in for Detmer and finished that win. He then went 4-1 as a starter. The rest of the team picked up their game to help the young QB along. That was Eagles football.2011? You have a proven veteran like Vince Young who can’t get the job done. He struggles. His receivers aren’t helping him out. The defense isn’t coming up big. This isn’t Eagles football. I don’t know what the hell this is. 53 guys wear the same jersey, but they don’t play as one.Andy Reid and his coaches were able to create a certain mindset and atmosphere on those early teams. Being a Philadelphia Eagle meant something. Too many guys now love to put on the jersey, but don’t do the little things it takes to make the jersey mean something. You don’t win because you’re an Eagle. You win by playing Eagles football, something that hasn’t really been here since 2008.Remember when Andy Reid was innovative and interesting? The main reason he hired Jim Johnson was because he loved JJ’s blitzing. Reid wanted a defense that could attack and be creative. Under JJ’s tutelage, Brian Dawkins went from being a FS to being a weapon. Teams were nervous about playing the Eagles. The team ended Michael Irvin’s career in 1999. The next year they started Troy Aikman on the road to retirement by knocking him out of the season opener and causing him to miss the next 2 games. That was Troy’s final year.The offense did some good things. Reid didn’t have great players, but he got the most out of his weapons. The ghost reverse first hit the NFL in 2001. Reid liked the idea and stole it. He knew that to make it really work you needed to hand the ball to the WR from time to time so that defenses would honor that threat. How many people remember that James Thrash had 18 carries in 2002? He ran for 2 TDs. That year the Eagles finished 5th in rushing attempts and 7th in yards. Reid was innovative with the run game. In 2003 he had the 3-headed monster in the backfield, turning Duce, Westy, and Correll Buckhalter into one terrific RB.STs used to be wild. Koy Detmer was great on fake FGs. The Eagles ran some brilliant fake FGs back in those days. Detmer optioned to David Akers for 15 yards in 2002. My favorite was an over the shoulder flip to Akers in 2000. Brian Dawkins scored a long TD on a fake punt in 2002. And of course there was the onside kick to open the 2000 season. That is part of Eagles history.Not only was that a great STs move, it was a great psychological move. Reid wanted to show his players that it was time to be aggressive. Reid rolled the dice and that onside kick helped to jump start an era of great success. When is the last time Reid did anything remotely close to that? I don’t mean making a risky call. When is the last time he tried pushing the button of the team in an open way?Reid is famous for punishing OG George Hegamin back in the summer of 1999. Hegamin made him angry one day. Reid punished him by having Hegamin drive the sled up and down the field for an afternoon. The next day, Reid cut him. In the middle of the 1999 season Reid wasn’t happy that DT Bill Johnson was laughing in the locker room after a miserable 33-7 loss to the Carolina Panthers. Johnson was cut the next day. Reid had control of the locker room. He had control of the team. He knew what buttons to push to scare or encourage the team. I don’t think you see any of that anymore.Andy has good relationships with his players. Guys love to come here. They want to play for Reid. He has a terrific reputation around the league. Maybe that is part of the problem. Football teams aren’t supposed to be full of love. The reason Jim Burt doused Bill Parcells with the initial bucket of Gatorade wasn’t to celebrate. It was Burt’s way of saying “F you!”. Parcells had ridden Burt a lot that year and Burt was sick of it. Charles Haley hated Jimmy Johnson with a passion. They didn’t “not get along”. There was real, pure hatred. Both Parcell and Johnson won Super Bowls with those players. Tom Coughlin and Plaxico Burress will never go on vacation together. They won a SB. A locker room needs to be functional, not happy.Andy Reid has a tremendous track record. No one disputes that. Unfortunately, the skills he used to build up that record no longer seem to be present. He hasn’t made great hires. He doesn’t seem to have the pulse of the team. He hasn’t done a good job of pushing buttons to get the team going. You wouldn’t consider him to be innovative or creative based on recent years. Rather than making the most of what he’s got to work with, Reid now delivers a mediocre product made from some really good parts. The Eagles have become underachievers, one of the worst things you can say to a coach about his team.

This article sums up why I could read Tommy Lawlor any day of the week. Great analyst and Bleeds Eagles green.

 

[delusional]

Read this today.

Since 1999, and not including this year, Reid holds an embarrassing 24-42 regular season record against teams that qualified for the playoffs. How does a .364 winning percentage sound?

 

[JAA]

While it may not be fair to evaluate the draft so soon it would look as if they may be the 2 worst drafts in the history of the team.



Seeing Brandon Graham up there and watching JPP now makes me angry.

This

We'll enjoy seeing Earl Thomas kick ### tonight too...

THIS! I like many other Eagles fans felt that when the Eagles moved up in the draft that year, it was an absolute done deal that we were getting Earl Thomas. I was never more stunned in my life when they called Brandon Graham. In retrospect, I don't know why I should have been surprised. Its what they do. Its what they've always done.

Sorry but when we traded up and drafted Shawn Andrews instead of Steven Jackson I was more upset. I wanted Jackson in a big way ...

 

[JAA]

Now that we can start planning for the draft.....any chance we grab a top QB since Vick won't finish a season? At the rate we are losing we could get Barclay or the kid at Baylor.

Baylor Griffin III will be a 1st round pick, no chance we land him

 

[JAA]

If we can get a top QB this season may be worth it.

We need to fix LBs more than anything.

fixed

 

[JAA]

I never would have thought this, but could Andy Reid be fired BEFORE the season is over?I don't think it would happen, but at least we as fans would know that something is going to change for next year.Maybe the players would actually play with the fat man gone. The problem with my idea is who would take over as coach? I don't think we have one coach that is worth a damn, except Howard Mudd.I would actually keep Howard Mudd and fire everyone else tomorrow.

Marty would be interim.To be honest, I could see him leaving this offseason to be a HC in college

 

[JAA]

Banner is going to stay cause he's the money man but I would like to see roseman go too. His drafts have been pretty awful. Have we gotten any starters out of the bunch? Not just guys who are starting because of circumstance, guys who are viable nfl starting calibur players? Here's his 2 years as GM.

2011 - Philadelphia Eagles RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 23 Danny Watkins G Baylor 2 54 Jaiquawn Jarrett DB Temple 3 90 Curtis Marsh DB Utah State 4 116 Casey Matthews LB Oregon 4 120 Alex Henery K Nebraska 5 149 Dion Lewis RB Pittsburgh 5 161 Julian Vandervelde G Iowa 6 191 Jason Kelce C Cincinnati 6 193 Brian Rolle LB Ohio State 7 237 Greg Lloyd LB Connecticut 7 240 Stanley Havili RB USC 2010 - Philadelphia Eagles RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 13 Brandon Graham DE Michigan 2 37 Nate Allen FS South Florida 3 86 Daniel Te'o-Nesheim DE Washington 4 105 Trevard Lindley DB Kentucky 4 121 Keenan Clayton LB Oklahoma 4 122 Mike Kafka QB Northwestern 4 125 Clay Harbor TE Missouri State 5 134 Ricky Sapp DE Clemson 5 159 Riley Cooper WR Florida 6 200 Charles Scott RB LSU 7 220 Jamar Chaney MLB Mississippi State 7 243 Jeff Owens DT Georgia 7 244 Kurt Coleman FS Ohio State

Other than Alex Henery, who's a kicker, who on this list screams NFL Starter?

This seems like the least of your concerns? Michael VickLeSean McCoyDeSean JacksonJeremy MaclinJason AvantBrent CelekJason PetersJason BabinCullen JenkinsTrent ColeAsante SamuelNnamdi AsomughaDominique Rodgers-CromartieThere are teams that would KILL for talent like this (trust me, I watch one of them every week). The draft is for accumulating talent. The Eagles are not losing because they haven't accumulated enough talent from 2010-2011. They are losing because they have great players playing like ####. Now, whether or not that's Reid's fault or the players' fault, who knows...

HC, O, and D coaching has left a lot to be desired all season

 

[JAA]

Some coaching names to throw out there (with not much knowledge of them) who seem to be potential HC's

Chuck Pagano- Baltimore DC

Dennis Allen- Denver DC

Winston Moss- Asst. HC/ Inside LBers

Darren Perry- Secondary- Safeties Coach

Mike Pettine- DC Jets

Winston Moss would seem to read as a good one and looks to be sure to get a HC job next year.

Doesn't Pagano run a 3-4? That would be a massive undertaking to change the defense to a 3-4. Not sure what type of defenses the other run, but I am all for having a defensive minded coach taking over the team. It should come as no surprise that Reid's best years as a head coach came when he was using Ray Rhodes defensive players.

With our DL and LBs I disagree.To be honest, I really think this is a PERFECT opportunity for Cowher to come back. Blue Collar city not unlike Pittsburgh. Lots of talent. Hes a players coach. If he could get a reasonable Pitts like 3-4 defense through LB/DB evaluation he could win a lot of games here. Heck, he could keep Marty here on offense if he cared.

 

[G-King]

I never would have thought this, but could Andy Reid be fired BEFORE the season is over?I don't think it would happen, but at least we as fans would know that something is going to change for next year.Maybe the players would actually play with the fat man gone. The problem with my idea is who would take over as coach? I don't think we have one coach that is worth a damn, except Howard Mudd.I would actually keep Howard Mudd and fire everyone else tomorrow.

Marty would be interim.To be honest, I could see him leaving this offseason to be a HC in college

I would love to see Marty in AZ. Wiz is not head coach material (or atleast needs to relinquish all offensive decisions.)

 

[dhockster]

Read this today.

Since 1999, and not including this year, Reid holds an embarrassing 24-42 regular season record against teams that qualified for the playoffs. How does a .364 winning percentage sound?

I am not defending Reid, but that statistic means very little unless you put it in context and see where they rank versus every other teams winning percentage against playoff teams. My guess is that they are middle of pack based on the following: if the average playoff teams record was 10-6 (which is probably too low), the winning percentage for playoff teams would be .625. That means that their opponents winning percentage would be .375. The Eagles are pretty close to that, and the average winning percentage is probably lower than .375.

 

[scratcher]

The counterargument (by the same guy):

The Case For Keeping Andy ReidBy Tommy LawlorThis isn’t my definitive opinion. Rather, this is a logical case for why Reid should be kept as coach. No matter which side you agree with, I don’t think this is an easy decision. 32 NFL teams would all love a perfect coach. That man doesn’t exist. Bill Belichick is flawed. So were legends like Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, and even Tom Landry. Head coaches, being somewhat human, make mistakes. They call the wrong play, cut the wrong player, or hire the wrong assistant. They screw up.Successful head coaches get more right than wrong when it comes to making decisions. You don’t win by accident. You might for a year or even two, but not for long. Over time you see a pattern emerge and find out which coaches make too many mistakes and which coaches are more right than wrong. They keep winning.At the end of 2007 Romeo Crennel looked like a smart guy. His Cleveland Browns had just had a breakout season. Life was good. 6 games into the 2009 season Josh McDaniels had the Broncos sitting at 6-0. Life was good. Both coaches fell apart after that and were fired. Cleveland remains irrelevant. The Broncos were 6-20 the rest of the way under McDaniels, but are playing well this year under new coach John Fox.Both Crennel and McDaniels had a taste of success, but neither could stand the test of time. Life in the NFL is hard. Too many injuries? Tough. Couple bad calls? Tough. Other teams in your division having fluke years? So what. In the NFL, you win or you hit the bricks. Coaches are hired to be fired. You deliver or else.Andy Reid has delivered, over and over. 2011 is an obvious exception. This season has been a disaster. Expectations by most were sky high. Struggling a bit is one thing, but 4-8 is mind blowing. That said, firing Reid for having a bad year would be short sighted and a mistake. The second he became available, all but a handful of teams would be interested. Would you really want Reid taking over the Skins, ‘Boys, or Gmen? Um, no. Hell no. Reid is a winner. Hate his faults all you want, but look at his record. The man wins.But what about 2011? You can’t give him a pass for this year, right? No. I don’t give him a pass. Andy Reid built up a lot of goodwill from 1999-2010. He burned through that this year. His savings account went from huge to empty. A bad season in 2012 would be a whole other story. You’d then have a pattern of losing and that would make it reasonable to fire Reid. History tells you he won’t lose in 2012. Reid has never had consecutive losing seasons with the Eagles.Having a bad year doesn’t make you incompetent or bad at what you do. In 1989 Jerome Brown had 10.5 sacks. In 1991 he had 9. Sandwiched in there was the 1990 season when Brown had just one sack. Should the Eagles have cut him? Of course not. His track record dictated that the bad year was an anomaly. Study the track record. 2011 is bad, but the Eagles were in the playoffs the previous 3 years. Check out this list of names:Chan GaileyDave CampoBill ParcellsWade PhillipsJason GarrettNorv TurnerMarty SchottenheimerSteve SpurrierJoe GibbsJim ZornMike ShanahanJim FasselTom CoughlinThose are the other NFC East coaches during Reid’s tenure (minus the Cardinals). All of those coaches combined have a record of 9-13 in the playoffs in that span. Andy Reid is 10-9. Coughlin did lead the Giants to a Super Bowl. That sets him apart and Reid is accountable for not bringing a Lombardi Trophy to the NovaCare Complex.Take another look at that list of names. Those guys have great resumes. There is a mixture of college coaches, NFL winners, former SB winners, and hotshot assistants. Out of that group, Coughlin delivered one Super Bowl and a lot of luck was involved in that win. Hiring a good coach is hard. Hiring a SB winner is very hard. Finding a great coach is next to impossible.Point is that a lot of coaches have been hired in Reid’s tenure. Most have been failures. Coughlin won a Super Bowl, but his team has been mediocre ever since. He’s on the hot seat more than Reid right now, despite having the better record in 2011.If I thought firing Reid would definitely push the Eagles toward the Super Bowl, I’d be all for it. Unfortunately, there is no such certainty. Firing Reid guarantees you nothing but change. Fans want that change because of the nightmare season. That’s emotion talking and not logic.The only reason to replace Reid is if you can upgrade. That is a major challenge. How many coaches better than Reid are available right now? I know…Gruden, Cowher, and Jeff Fisher. Those are big names, but aren’t necessarily better coaches. If you judge strictly by SB wins, yes, but that also puts Barry Switzer above Bud Grant and I’m not buying that for a second.Would I take Gruden over Reid for just 1 game? Yes. Absolutely. The problem is you’re hiring a guy for 5 years. Gruden has shown that he’s all over the place. He cannot build a wining program because he tinkers too much. Cowher and Fisher would be fine if trying to build a team from the ground up. Those guys are good coaches. I think both would be lost with the Eagles built as they are. And the Eagles have too much talent in place to go on a rebuilding mission. Also…think about time. Gruden won the SB in 2002. Cowher in 2005. The NFL is different now. Reid went to the SB in 2004 and think how much things have changed since then. Those guys have great reputations, but don’t fall into the trap of hiring names. The Skins did that with Mike Shanahan. Wonder how much they regret that move?Is there a great assistant to be had? There are some names of interest, but there is no one I find so compelling that it makes me think he would be likely to improve on Reid.The NFL is all about offense these days. You must have a QB. Reid has proven to be a QB guru. He drafted and developed Donovan McNabb. Ditto with AJ Feeley. Ditto with Kevin Kolb. Then he signed Mike Vick off the street and has him throwing the ball much better than Vick ever dreamed of in Atlanta.Ask a Skins fan how nice it would be to have good QB play. It has been a while since they had a really good QB down there. Heck, ask an Eagles fan who sat through the wasteland of the 1991-1998 period. The Eagles had good QB play in spurts, but never for an entire season. The team won a pair of Wildcard games in that period, but didn’t come close to anything more than that. Having a franchise QB is critical. Having a coach who can find and develop QBs is hugely important.A lot of people think Reid has simply been here too long and it is time for a change. I understand that notion and it does make sense, but Reid isn’t your typical coach. Reid became fascinated with the personnel side of things while in Green Bay. He talked to Ron Wolf a lot and learned that part of the NFL. Most coaches obsess on keeping veteran players. They want to grow old with the guys they know. Reid is the exact opposite. He understands roster turnover and even embraces it.Reid has let a lot of good veterans go in his time here. It killed me to see Troy Vincent and Hugh Douglas leave. That was really heartbreaking. It was the right thing to do, though. Reid had the strength to let them walk and the Eagles were better off for it. Reid had one set of players in his 2004 Super Bowl run. There were a lot of new faces in 2008 when the team again came close. The 2011 Eagles are different than them and the 2012 team will be different than this bunch.Think about this. Reid clinched division titles with McNabb (2001, 2003-2004), Feeley (2002), Garcia (2006), and Vick (2010) at quarterback. That should tell you that Reid can handle change. That should show you that he’s able to adapt better than people think.Speaking of which…one of the accusations against Reid is that he isn’t self-aware, won’t self-scout, and won’t change. Not true. Put on an Eagles game from 1999. Then 2002. Then 2003. Then 2006. Then 2008. Then 2011. You’ll see different offenses. The changes aren’t dramatic, but they are there. Reid began here with a simple attack out of the I-formation. By 2002 he was using a 3-WR set. He began mixing in a lot of shotgun after that. 2003 was a real fun offense. Lots of Ace Formation for the first time (2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB). The offense was efficient. By 2006 the Eagles were vertical and explosive. Reggie Brown and Donte Stallworth were vertical threats. When McNabb got hurt, the offense really featured Brian Westbrook. He became a workhorse RB. The 2008 offense became really vertical with the explosive speed of DeSean Jackson. The FB was phased out. This year, with Vick as the starter and Howard Mudd’s new blocking scheme, there are new running plays and some different passing plays. Middle screens, WR screens, and even TE screens are now featured plays.Reid had the infamous 2007 game with the Giants where McNabb was sacked 237 times (at least it seemed that way). Since then, gameplans against good pass rushing teams have focused on protection. Reid does this by alignment, by using extra blockers, and by calling certain plays. I don’t think there has been a game quite like that one since then.No one (except Andy/Marty) like the Eagles pass-run ratio. That said, things have gotten a bit better. After 12 games, LeSean McCoy leads the NFC in rushing (2nd in NFL). He has 215 carries. Brian Westbrook had 277, 240, and 233 in his best seasons. Keep in mind that Shady still has 4 games left. He’s on pace for 286 carries this year. Only Duce Staley with 325 back in 1999 would have had more in a season. And that year Reid had to run because the passing offense was such a mess.Back in 2005 Reid had a veteran team. He was dealing with the TO situation in the summer and that meant trying to get Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis a lot of reps with McNabb at Lehigh. There was a lot of passing. That Eagles team completely fell apart and went 6-10. The next year at Lehigh Reid had a totally different mindset. He thought the 2005 team hadn’t been tough enough so Reid ran run play after run play. That was a tough, physical camp. Reid was punishing his team for the sloppy 2005 season. Reid was more passive in 2005, letting his assistants run drills and handle things. In 2006 he was more active, and not just on offense. Reid was all over the practice fields. He felt the team needed his presence and he changed his methods.Reid also made another change at that training camp. He had a play clock on the field. To that point, the Eagles had a really bad problem of getting to the line late. That led to penalties and/or wasted timeouts. Reid used the clock to get the offense in the habit of moving quicker and that issue has gone down quite a bit. Reid also had been calling his own plays from the time he got here. That changed in the middle of the 2006 season. Since then, Marty Mornhinweg has called the plays.One of the problems Reid had to deal with was his own success. He lost the great coaching staff he initially built when he came to the Eagles. Guys left to go become head coaches and coordinators for other teams. Reid stumbled with many of his replacement hires. This caught up to the Eagles over time. Reid realized this and made a lot of coaching changes after the 2010 season. Reid is fiercely loyal so firing guys wasn’t something that came easy to him. Reid also realized that he’d lost his feel for the coaching community that he had back when he was an assistant. This time when he went to hire coaches he decided to focus on people he knew rather than guys that were suggested to him. The staff now has a lot of former Eagles and/or veteran coaches that Reid had a relationship with. Reid identified a problem and tried to correct it.Reid did make one mistake in his hires. The Juan Castillo as DC experiment is a major failure and Reid will have to rectify that in the offseason. If Reid is willing to admit the mistake and make a change, he can be forgiven. If Reid tries to fight for Castillo to keep his job, then we’ve got a whole other discussion. I don’t think that will happen. Reid showed with last year’s firings that he’s willing to make hard decisions when they must be made.Reid is slow to change. I don’t think anyone would dispute that. His stubborn streak is about the size of his gut and that’s not a good thing. The notion that he won’t adjust or change is false. He just doesn’t do it quickly.Although Reid no longer calls plays, he still has a strong hand in the offense. The playbook is his. He helps design the gameplan each week. Reid is one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. He’s able to keep the Eagles among the top offenses in football by adjusting the scheme to take advantage of the personnel. The early offense was built around McNabb. The 2004 attack fed the ball to a big, physical workhorse WR. The 2006 team was built around a dynamic runner/receiver. Now the offense is a mixture because of Maclin, McCoy, DeSean, Celek, Avant, and of course…Vick. I think a strong case can be made for Reid as the greatest screen coach in NFL history. If you go back over the years you will see the Eagles coming up with different ways to run the screen pass every year or two. It is brilliant the way Reid is able to tweak such a simple play.Reid’s biggest strength might be his people skills. That sounds crazy to anyone who has listened to a Reid press conference, but it is true. There is a reason that guys like Hugh Douglas, Shawn Barber, Feeley, Dorsey Levens, and Jeremiah Trotter returned to the Eagles after leaving. They loved Big Red and wanted to play for him again. Even disgruntled players like John Welbourn and Terrell Owens hinted that they regretted leaving the Eagles. I’d love to give Donovan McNabb some truth serum and hear his thoughts on Reid vs the situations in WAS and MIN. That would be interesting.Fans hate to hear “This is on me. I’ve got to do a better job.” They hate it with a passion. Players appreciate it. The thing that I wish more people understood is that Andy isn’t calm and quiet with the team. He gets them in a meeting room and rips them up and down. The thing is that it stays in the room. You don’t have the kind of success Reid has without knowing how to get after players. Wade Phillips is a coach who prefers the nice guy approach. He has success for a few years, but eventually the players take advantage of him and Wade is out. Reid seems harmless to those on the outside, but he runs that locker room. Andy rules the roost.Notice that in a year where not much has gone right, there isn’t an issue with players going to the media to rip on Reid. DeSean Jackson is in the middle of a highly volatile situation. Reid continues to protect his player and DeSean hasn’t gone off. He isn’t playing like he should, but he could make that situation a lot worse if he started running his mouth to the media. Hasn’t happened.Some people love to throw the “Reid’s lost the locker room” accusation out there. I haven’t seen any evidence of that. It is a cliched thing to say about a veteran coach in a down year, but there’s nothing to back it up. The team is struggling, but this isn’t a case of players turning their back on Reid or not caring. Did you see Vince Young throw his body into a defender to lay out a block last week? Have you watched Trent Cole play? Jason Avant? Brent Celek? And so on. This team doesn’t lack effort. The guys are playing hard. Problem is that effort can’t make up for mistakes.Go back to the previous Eagles coaches. Rich Kotite didn’t lose the locker room. He just never had it. Defensive players openly hated Rich. His 1994 team lost their final 7 games and it was clear that he had to go. Ray Rhodes was very popular, but was a bit like Wade Phillips. Ray didn’t control the team and by his final year the players were doing as they pleased. Dave Spadaro has told stories of players being on cell phones while sitting at practice. Can you imagine such a thing under Reid?Reid is respected by other coaches and players. In his time here, Philly became a place players wanted to go. Vince Young signed here because he wanted to play for Reid. Terrell Owens wanted no part of Baltimore, but did everything he could to get to Philly. Nnamdi Asomugha wanted to be an Eagle. And so on. Go back to the Rhodes era. We landed 2 big time free agents, Ricky Watters and Troy Vincent. Ricky knew Ray from their time together in SF and it helped we paid him a lot when other teams weren’t so keen on him. Troy got a huge deal from us and also wanted to play near his hometown. The other stars we talked to had no interest in coming here. They used us to get better deals elsewhere. Guys like Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, John Randle, and even Nate Newton used our name for leverage. They didn’t want any part of the Eagles. Reid has made Philly an NFL hot spot.Reid’s most interesting relationship might be the one with Michael Vick. Reid took a flyer on Vick at a time when only a couple of teams had interest. The Eagles had a stable environment that would make life easier for Vick. The Eagles also had Reid, someone that Vick would respect and answer to. Vick didn’t need a buddy-buddy coach. He had that in Atlanta with Jim Mora (jr or whatever he is). That didn’t work too well. Vick needed someone that would enforce rules and hold him accountable. Reid did this and continues to do this. To Vick’s credit, he’s been basically a model citizen since leaving prison (except in the Red Zone).Reid didn’t plan on the Vick era ever happening. We’re supposed to be in Year 2 of the Kolb era, but he got hurt and Vick stepped in. Mike came alive once in the lineup and Reid rolled the dice. He stuck with Vick and dealt Kolb away in the offseason. This team is now financially married to Vick for a year or two. The question heading into the future is how to get Vick back to his 2010 playing level. I don’t think firing Reid and bringing in a new coach would help that situation.Vick has looked terrific at times this season, but then makes a crucial mistake here and there and the Eagles end up losing. He doesn’t need major changes. Switching systems would be a setback for him. The best thing is for Reid and his staff to have a full offseason to work with Vick and get him back to the 2010 form.One of the things I like most about Reid is that he’s faced with tough circumstances, but hasn’t sold his soul to the devil. Reid did add a lot of veterans this year, but has 2 rookies starting on the O-line. He cut veteran DTs to keep Cedric Thornton on the initial roster. Reid knows there is increasing pressure on him as he gets closer to the end of his Eagles career, but he’s still got one eye on the present (coach side of him) and one eye on the future (personnel side of him). Reid was willing to bench DeSean before a game with Arizona a few weeks back. The Eagles lost that and it might cost the team dearly. Reid felt enforcing rules and doing things the right way was more important than cutting corners and letting the players do as they wanted. Reid remains committed to doing things his way. I think that is a very good sign.Finally, let’s look at a couple of recent Super Bowl winners. Green Bay won the 2010 SB. Back in 2008 they were 6-10. The defense stunk. Mike McCarthy went out and hired veteran DC Dom Capers. The defense was good in 2009 and the team made the playoffs. The defense was outstanding in 2010 and the team won the SB.In 2008 the Saints were 8-8. The defense stunk. Sean Payton hired veteran DC Gregg Williams to come in and run the defense. That unit improved immediately and the won the SB in 2009.Both coaches had the right QB. They had the skill players and the OL. They had some pieces on defense, but not the right coach. The Juan Castillo experiment has failed in 2011. Expect to see a new DC in January or February of 2012. If the Eagles make the right hire, there is no reason to think the team can’t be a Super Bowl contender next season.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Still nothing in there sways me to have him back for another year.

 

[scratcher]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

 

[delusional]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

Its rather pathetic that people still think the eagles have a shot & can turn this around period. They get a win against a miami team that had 3 back up OL guys in the game, Long having to leave the game and their starting qb getting hurt. On top of that they did jack the second half. Yet that game is probably going to save Reids job because to the media & FO, the previous 8 losses were just fluke & they will be back to riding Reid like he won 4 superbowls alreadyeditted. Meant to say Long, not Locker

 

[renesauz]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

Its rather pathetic that people still think the eagles have a shot & can turn this around period. They get a win against a miami team that had 3 back up OL guys in the game, Locker having to leave the game and their starting qb getting hurt. On top of that they put did jack the second half. Yet that game is probably going to save Reids job because to the media & FO, the previous 8 losses were just flukes.

To be fair, a couple of those losses WERE just flukes.But...I'm starting to come around to the idea that we need a change too. Even with a couple more wins, this team would have underperformed badly.

 

[JAA]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

Its rather pathetic that people still think the eagles have a shot & can turn this around period. They get a win against a miami team that had 3 back up OL guys in the game, Locker having to leave the game and their starting qb getting hurt. On top of that they put did jack the second half. Yet that game is probably going to save Reids job because to the media & FO, the previous 8 losses were just flukes.

To be fair, a couple of those losses WERE just flukes.But...I'm starting to come around to the idea that we need a change too. Even with a couple more wins, this team would have underperformed badly.

wha??Nothing was flukey about our collapses or getting dominated on both sides of the ball, as well as getting out coached.

 

[renesauz]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

Its rather pathetic that people still think the eagles have a shot & can turn this around period. They get a win against a miami team that had 3 back up OL guys in the game, Locker having to leave the game and their starting qb getting hurt. On top of that they put did jack the second half. Yet that game is probably going to save Reids job because to the media & FO, the previous 8 losses were just flukes.

To be fair, a couple of those losses WERE just flukes.But...I'm starting to come around to the idea that we need a change too. Even with a couple more wins, this team would have underperformed badly.

wha??Nothing was flukey about our collapses or getting dominated on both sides of the ball, as well as getting out coached.

Flukey is a perfect word. Even terrible, collapsing teams don't blow fourth quarter leads in 6 or 7 games in the same year. That's a HUGE statistical anomoly...pretty much the definition of "flukey".Doesn't change the fact that even if you give 2 wins back....your initial point remains completely valid...the team collapsed, and seriously underperformed. I'm not one to call for Reid's head...but I'm not about to argue to save it either.

 

[Amused to Death]

Its rather pathetic that hte Eagles still have a shot at the playoffs at 4-8. If we were even a somewhat decent team we would be walking into the playoffs.

Its rather pathetic that people still think the eagles have a shot & can turn this around period. They get a win against a miami team that had 3 back up OL guys in the game, Locker having to leave the game and their starting qb getting hurt. On top of that they put did jack the second half. Yet that game is probably going to save Reids job because to the media & FO, the previous 8 losses were just flukes.

To be fair, a couple of those losses WERE just flukes.But...I'm starting to come around to the idea that we need a change too. Even with a couple more wins, this team would have underperformed badly.

wha??Nothing was flukey about our collapses or getting dominated on both sides of the ball, as well as getting out coached.

Flukey is a perfect word. Even terrible, collapsing teams don't blow fourth quarter leads in 6 or 7 games in the same year. That's a HUGE statistical anomoly...pretty much the definition of "flukey".Doesn't change the fact that even if you give 2 wins back....your initial point remains completely valid...the team collapsed, and seriously underperformed. I'm not one to call for Reid's head...but I'm not about to argue to save it either.

The Eagles blew all those 4 quarter leads because even average OC's can out-coach our DC. A flukey occurrence is where you really don't have control over the outcome. Andy had complete control over who to hire and what players to use. Both have been an epic failure on the field. I agree its an anomaly. But that anomaly occurred in when JC was named the DC. Unprecedented anomaly even. But the results were expected and even predicted.

 

[dhockster]

To summarize the Eagles playoff chances:

-If both the Cowboys and Giants win this weekend, or the Eagles lose, the Eagles are eliminated.

-If the Eagles win and the Cowboys win and the Giants lose, The Eagles are still alive and would need to beat the Cowboys

next week, have the Giants loss to the Jets, and in the final week beat the Redskins and have the Giants beat the Cowboys.

-If the Eagles win and the Giants win and the Cowboys lose, The Eagles are still alive and would need to beat the Cowboys

next week, have the Giants loss to the Jets, and in the final week beat the Redskins and have the Cowboys beat the Giants.

-If the Eagles win and both the Cowboys and Giants lose, The Eagles are still alive and would actually control their own destiny

in the final week of the season if they beat the Cowboys next week and the Giants lose to the Jets. If the Giants beat the Jets

next week and the Eagles beat the Cowboys, The Eagles need to beat the Redskins in the final week of the season and have the Cowboys

beat the Giants.

Will any of this happen? 99% probability it will not. However, how distraught would all the philly haters (non-Eagle fans Philly haters) be

if this underacheiving team made the playoffs? I suspect some on this board would be distraught as well because Andy would keep

his job.

When I think it won't happen, I think back to 2008 When we needed Houston to upset Chicago, Tampa Bay to upset Oakland, and us to

beat Dallas for us to make the playoffs. Sigh. I can always hope.

 

[delusional]

Random shots went out today and i noticed this

Crazy stat from Cousin Sal of the Bill Simmons podcast Monday: In the 50 years from 1960 to 2010, the Cowboys blew two fourth quarter leads of 12 points or more. This season, they've blown three fourth quarter leads of 12 points or more.

That's enough to fire Jason Garrett on the spot.

Seen this today too

Joselio Hanson and Trent Cole were both fined for hits against the Dolphins on Sunday.

Hanson was fined $15,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit on J.P. Losman. Hanson said he didn't mean to hit Losman in the head and said he would appeal to the NFL.

"I don't think it's right," Hanson said. Cole was fined $15,000 for hitting Losman too low and also plans to appeal the league's decision. This is the second consecutive week Cole has been fined. He was fined $7,500 from the Seahawks game. He has been fined "four or five" times this season and said he has lost count of the amount of money he has been docked.

"The NFLPA is not happy about it," defensive end Jason Babin said. "Nobody [on defense] is."

What stood out is in bold. Think this is the first time I heard about the PA being aggravated with the constant fining of players.

 

[Amused to Death]

Random shots went out today and i noticed this

Crazy stat from Cousin Sal of the Bill Simmons podcast Monday: In the 50 years from 1960 to 2010, the Cowboys blew two fourth quarter leads of 12 points or more. This season, they've blown three fourth quarter leads of 12 points or more. That's enough to fire Jason Garrett on the spot.

Saw that too. If only he had won the game after their bye, he'd be considered a great coach. Blow as many 4th quarter leads as you want, as long you win that game after your bye you're doing good.

 

[JAA]

To summarize the Eagles playoff chances:-If both the Cowboys and Giants win this weekend, or the Eagles lose, the Eagles are eliminated.-If the Eagles win and the Cowboys win and the Giants lose, The Eagles are still alive and would need to beat the Cowboysnext week, have the Giants loss to the Jets, and in the final week beat the Redskins and have the Giants beat the Cowboys.-If the Eagles win and the Giants win and the Cowboys lose, The Eagles are still alive and would need to beat the Cowboysnext week, have the Giants loss to the Jets, and in the final week beat the Redskins and have the Cowboys beat the Giants.-If the Eagles win and both the Cowboys and Giants lose, The Eagles are still alive and would actually control their own destinyin the final week of the season if they beat the Cowboys next week and the Giants lose to the Jets. If the Giants beat the Jetsnext week and the Eagles beat the Cowboys, The Eagles need to beat the Redskins in the final week of the season and have the Cowboys beat the Giants.Will any of this happen? 99% probability it will not. However, how distraught would all the philly haters (non-Eagle fans Philly haters) beif this underacheiving team made the playoffs? I suspect some on this board would be distraught as well because Andy would keephis job.When I think it won't happen, I think back to 2008 When we needed Houston to upset Chicago, Tampa Bay to upset Oakland, and us tobeat Dallas for us to make the playoffs. Sigh. I can always hope.

... time to save Andy's job

 

[dhockster]

So 4 things need to happen for the Eagles to make the playoffs, and the Eagles control 2 of them.

-Jets beat the Giants

-Eagles beat the Cowboys

-Giants beat the Cowboys

-Eagles beat the Redskins

The Giants play the Jets before the Eagles play the Cowboys on Saturday, so if the Giants win, it is

a meaningless game for both the Eagles and Cowboys (Whether the Cowboys win or loss to the Eagles, the

division would be decided by who wins the Cowboy/Giant game in the last week). If the Giants lose to the

Jets, The Eagles would be still alive and need to win. The Cowboys, however, would then also have a chance

to win the division by beating the Eagles, so they will have additional incentive to win.

One question about the final week if the Eagles are still alive: currently, the Eagles game, Giants game, and

Jets/Miami game are all at one O'Clock. Traditionally, the Jets and Giants don't play in the same time slot so

that the networks can maximize viewing by the New York audiences. It would make sense to move the Giants/Cowboys

game to 4 O'Clock because that is the more meaningful game to put up against the other 4 O'Clock games. However,

if the league does that and the Eagles beat the Redskins, then the game becomes meaningless to the Giants. The Eagles

win the division if the Giants win, and the Cowboys win the division if the Giants lose. Do you think the league

would do that? I seem to remember a few years ago, the league had this situation happen and they said they would try

and schedule so that as many teams as possible would play with incentive to win. It would probably be fitting for this

season to have the Eagles play a horrible first 12 games, get back into it on the last week of the season, and be eliminated

because the Giants had nothing to play for.

 

[CentralPA]

I would hope that they'd move the Eagles and Redskins game to a 4:15 start but that probably wouldn't be the game everyone wants to see. At the same time the Giants/Cowboys game becomes meaningless if the Eagles lose so the best way to maximize viewership would be to move Washington/Philly to a 4:15 start. I don't see how this isn't done by the league.

 

[dhockster]

I would hope that they'd move the Eagles and Redskins game to a 4:15 start but that probably wouldn't be the game everyone wants to see. At the same time the Giants/Cowboys game becomes meaningless if the Eagles lose so the best way to maximize viewership would be to move Washington/Philly to a 4:15 start. I don't see how this isn't done by the league.

The only problem is that leaves the Jets game and the Giants game at the same time. The networks don't like this because they don't maximize their audience. I will be surprised if the league leaves both the Jets and Giants game at 1 O'Clock.

 

[Please See Mine]

I would hope that they'd move the Eagles and Redskins game to a 4:15 start but that probably wouldn't be the game everyone wants to see. At the same time the Giants/Cowboys game becomes meaningless if the Eagles lose so the best way to maximize viewership would be to move Washington/Philly to a 4:15 start. I don't see how this isn't done by the league.

Eagles game will become meaningless if the Giants lose at 1, though.Probably best to roll the dice that the Eagles will beat the Redskins and put Dallas-NYG at 4:15. Dallas as a national game is probably for the best either way.

 

[CentralPA]

I would hope that they'd move the Eagles and Redskins game to a 4:15 start but that probably wouldn't be the game everyone wants to see. At the same time the Giants/Cowboys game becomes meaningless if the Eagles lose so the best way to maximize viewership would be to move Washington/Philly to a 4:15 start. I don't see how this isn't done by the league.

Eagles game will become meaningless if the Giants lose at 1, though.Probably best to roll the dice that the Eagles will beat the Redskins and put Dallas-NYG at 4:15. Dallas as a national game is probably for the best either way.

Guess that's why I am not an NFL Exec.

 

[The_Man]

NFL has done a great job of moving games to avoid meaningless games as much as possible in Week 17. If the Eagles game could be rendered meaningless by the result of the Giants-Cowboys, then they will have them play at the same time or before to ensure the Eagles play to win.

I'm wondering if Giants-Cowboys becomes the Flex game for Week 17.

 

[delusional]

Dont think i ever been happier for a Giants win