*** Official 2012-13 Hot Stove Thread (1 Viewer)

[Good Posting Judge]

You can't perpetually play for three years from now.

Myers seems like he's ready to contribute this year. Your point is well taken about the risk of him not panning out, but Shields might develop labrum trouble, or blow out his elbow. There are no guarantees on either side.It's hard to doubt the Rays, given how well they've been able to make something out of nothing for several years now. Mostly by developing their cost-controlled prospects and not trying to cash them in for a short-term fix.

 

[Eephus]

You can't perpetually play for three years from now.

True but Myers, Odorizzi and Montgomery weren't in A ball

 

[MAC_32]

You can't perpetually play for three years from now.

Then you have to develop prospects and pick up free agents better. The Royals have not. The Royals always seem to have a loaded farm system, but when they get to the majors it doesn't translate. Whenever they dip into the free agent/trade market they routinely make bad moves, not in hindsight, at the time of the signing - usually comes to fruition too.This isn't just a strong of bad luck, it's an organizational issue. The Guthrie and Santana signings followed by this wreaks of sheer panic. If the horses on offense don't breakout this year I see the ship being blown up again in the next 2 years. With no young organizational pitching to build around most of the guys nearing free agency will be sent packing and a new 5 year plan is born.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Rany Jazayerli ‏@jazayerliOf the last 14 hitters to win Minor League PoY, 12 of them turned into stars. And one of the two misses has a mitochondrial disease.

 

[Frostillicus]

I forgot Francoeur was the current RF. I think I'm now moving towards the camp that believes they needed to make moves like this, but not this move.

 

[Eephus]

The move smacks of an organization that has lost confidence in their ability to assess talent and lost their patience with developing it. Butler and Gordon took a few years in the Majors to find success. Moustakas and Hosmer seem to be heading down the same track if their lucky. Montgomery lost his command and Duffy got hurt. Hochevar remains one of the poster boys for the folly of signability. Not all prospects struggle in their first appearance in the bigs; maybe Myers would have been the exception. In their defense, the Royals have seen more of Myers than anybody else. His strikeout rate isn't that terrible though. It's more like Jay Bruce's than Brett Jackson's.

I've been waiting for the Royals to decide that they're in their window. But it's hard to see it as anything other than wishful thinking coming off another 90 loss season.

 

[Daywalker]

Do the Dodgers go for a higher price then 2.1 bill if everyone knew a 250mill/year tv deal was on the horizon? Isn't the franchise a steal at that price? Why wouldn't Fox buy the team back?

 

[Premier]

Another side note is that the Rays just freed up 10M in salary that they will likely allocate to a bat.

I hope they give Myers the Matt Moore contract.

 

[Balco]

Another side note is that the Rays just freed up 10M in salary that they will likely allocate to a bat. I hope they give Myers the Matt Moore contract.

They should go after a bat with good platoon splits. No reason to spend $$$ on a long term deal, unless Laroche wants to sign for 2 years.I wonder if they convert Mike Montgomery to reliever as well.

 

[shadyridr]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

A's turned down Myers for Anderson, straight up. A little different situation because Oakland's OF is a bit more formidable, but you'd think they could offload Crisp, or somebody. Huh.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

 

[shadyridr]

A's turned down Myers for Anderson, straight up. A little different situation because Oakland's OF is a bit more formidable, but you'd think they could offload Crisp, or somebody. Huh.

WOAHI actually think Anderson is one of the top, young pitchers in the game and better than Shields but dude always gets hurt.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I have no reason to know but I wonder if something isn't rotten in Denmark with Myers.

Their choice not to promote this fall was curious to me. We're they afraid if him being exposed?

That said, I agree with all that based on perceived value, this is an awful deal. Moore or price should have been the prize for that package.

 

[the moops]

Moore or price should have been the prize for that package.

This is even more outrageous in the opposite direction.

 

[Northern Voice]

Saw this posted elsewhere, is this accurate that the Rays have brought in a new front line-ish starter basically every year? <div><br></div><div>2005: Kazmir<div>2006: Shields</div><div>2007: Jackson</div><div>2008: Garza</div><div>2009: Price</div><div>2010: Davis</div><div>2011: Hellickson</div><div>2012: Moore</div><div>2013: Archer</div></div>

 

[Don Quixote]

Put me down in the baffling camp. I could understand it if the Royals were close to the playoffs (kind of like when the Nats traded away the top of their farm system for Gio) and they thought Shields and Davis could put them over the top, but I'm not seeing it.

I also think Myers will be better than their other young hitters, such as Hosmer, Butler, and Moustakas. Sure, he could bust, but Baseball America has a pretty good track record on minor league players of the year (last 5: Trout, Hellickson, Heyward, Wieters, Bruce).

 

[MAC_32]

Their choice not to promote this fall was curious to me. We're they afraid if him being exposed?

Just based on memory, streakiness was the primary issue. He would seem to push a promotion then go in a 10 day cold spell, think this happened twice and if I remember correctly got a minor injury late in the season. Thoughts are kid of hazy though, didn't keep detailed notes but he kept going on and off my roster because of his C eligibility.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

Who said this???

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

Who said this???

You argued that:

The worst case is he never adjusts to major league pitching, something that happens A LOT to top prospects.

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.

By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Can someone who understands advanced stats please educate me on dWAR?

I was looking at some past players and noticed that Edgar Martinez had a negative dWAR in years where he played 0 innings in the field. Is that because there is a position adjustment and DH has a negative adjustment? I would think that a DH would just have a 0 dWAR value.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

How about Domonic Brown?EDIT: Although I hope he can still succeed at the MLB level.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

How about Domonic Brown?EDIT: Although I hope he can still succeed at the MLB level.

That's a good one. His 2010 is closer to Wil Myers status, but he was a year older, and he still only hit 20 HRs to Myers' 37. Although the PCL (where Myers played) is notoriously hitter-friendly as I understand it. I worry (as a Nats fan) that Dom Brown could be taking the circuitous Matt Wieters route to stardom. Stud prospect who just takes a little longer to become what people thought he'd be.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

Who said this???

You argued that:

The worst case is he never adjusts to major league pitching, something that happens A LOT to top prospects.

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.

By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

Again, who said Myers was high risk because he is a prospect? I said no such thing, I was just commenting on the "cornerstone" comment which I found hilarious. But ok, I'll play along. I offered Milledge and LaRoche as examples, you and I both know I can dig up pages and pages of top prospects that never panned out for various reasons.

Jeremy Hermida (#4 prospect in 2006) .975 OPS in AA in 2005, currently without a team

Brandon Wood (#3 prospect in '06 and #8 in '07) Very good minor league hitter, many .900 OPS seasons

Andy Marte (#9 prospect in 2005) Power, high walks and the ability to go the other way. "Can't miss"

Delmon Young Ranked in top five including #1 prospect, has not exactly become a cornerstone

Sean Burroughs (top ten 2000-2002) Consistent minor league hitter, future batting champ according to many scouts

Carlos Pena (#5 in 2002) Killed minor league pitching, solid MLB player but nothing close to spectacular

Casey Kotchman (#6 in 2005) .323/.406/.491/.897 career minor league numbers

Can I list Brandon Wood twice? Or would that be "misguided?"

 

[Eephus]

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

How about Domonic Brown?EDIT: Although I hope he can still succeed at the MLB level.

That's a good one. His 2010 is closer to Wil Myers status, but he was a year older, and he still only hit 20 HRs to Myers' 37. Although the PCL (where Myers played) is notoriously hitter-friendly as I understand it. I worry (as a Nats fan) that Dom Brown could be taking the circuitous Matt Wieters route to stardom. Stud prospect who just takes a little longer to become what people thought he'd be.

Brown's reputation got inflated in 2010 by a red hot month when he first got called up to AAA.

 

[Premier]

Carlos Pena had a 46-homer year. Pretty sure he shouldn't be on that list.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

Who said this???

You argued that:

The worst case is he never adjusts to major league pitching, something that happens A LOT to top prospects.

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.

By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

Again, who said Myers was high risk because he is a prospect? I said no such thing, I was just commenting on the "cornerstone" comment which I found hilarious. But ok, I'll play along. I offered Milledge and LaRoche as examples, you and I both know I can dig up pages and pages of top prospects that never panned out for various reasons.

Jeremy Hermida (#4 prospect in 2006) .975 OPS in AA in 2005, currently without a team

Brandon Wood (#3 prospect in '06 and #8 in '07) Very good minor league hitter, many .900 OPS seasons

Andy Marte (#9 prospect in 2005) Power, high walks and the ability to go the other way. "Can't miss"

Delmon Young Ranked in top five including #1 prospect, has not exactly become a cornerstone

Sean Burroughs (top ten 2000-2002) Consistent minor league hitter, future batting champ according to many scouts

Carlos Pena (#5 in 2002) Killed minor league pitching, solid MLB player but nothing close to spectacular

Casey Kotchman (#6 in 2005) .323/.406/.491/.897 career minor league numbers

Can I list Brandon Wood twice? Or would that be "misguided?"

Yeah, I wasn't just referring to your post. Should have been clearer. A lot of the defenses of the trade from the KC perspective have made the argument that Shields is a sure thing based on past years and Myers isn't because he's still a "prospect."I'm guessing if you had the time and energy you could go on with your list like that for a while. But I could make the same list of guys with Shields' resume who flamed out. Look through the Cy Young ballots from just the last couple years and you'll find names like Dice-K, Webb, Ubaldo, Josh Johnson, Clay Buchholz, etc. My point was that at this stage in the game, Myers' development into an excellent player is only slightly less likely than Shields continuing at that level, and the money/years flips the equation pretty heavily.

 

[Eephus]

Carlos Pena had a 46-homer year. Pretty sure he shouldn't be on that list.

True but he was 29 and with his fifth organization by then. Some of the criticism of Myers as a prospect isn't about his raw talent but rather how long it will take him to adjust to MLB hitting.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not sure where you guys have been but the Roylas have been "building up their farm system" for the better part of two decades now. They need to move, they have the hitting to be a playoff team but their pitching is the suck. That is a great trade for the Royals IMO.

Also every time Eephus posts something in here I think of this guy

I dont mind trading prospects but if youre gonna trade the minor leaguer of the year and one of the top prospects in baseball, you better get back better than a #2 starter who had his career year two years ago. Plus he only has two years left on his deal. Dont get me wrong, Sheilds is very good and any team would be happy to have him but then they threw in a bunch of other big name prospects as well. Just doesnt make sense. Any Myers isnt a young prospect. He can probably make an impact in 2013.

Bingo.This is a baffling trade. The idea that Myers is high-risk simply because he's a prospect seems misguided. Sure he might flop, but Shields might flop too, like he did in 2010. I'd rather have Shields for 2013, but the six years of club control and the upside outweighs that by many miles.

Who said this???

You argued that:

The worst case is he never adjusts to major league pitching, something that happens A LOT to top prospects.

Which is true, especially if you're talking about top prospects in general, including very green ones. But I think it's a relatively low risk considering his stature and his production at AAA already. I think the chance he flops/gets hurt is only slightly greater than the chance Shields flops/gets hurt, so that when you consider the upside and the years of team/cost control, it's a no-brainer.You used Milledge as a flop example, but Milledge never hit at AA or AAA like Myers. Andy LaRoche kinda did, but not as well, and not at 21.

By the way I'm removing the Davis/Odorizzi part of the trade because I figure that's about a wash. Shields for Myers is the meat of this deal. He's murdering AA and AAA at 21. Guys like that sometimes fail, but mostly they don't.

Again, who said Myers was high risk because he is a prospect? I said no such thing, I was just commenting on the "cornerstone" comment which I found hilarious. But ok, I'll play along. I offered Milledge and LaRoche as examples, you and I both know I can dig up pages and pages of top prospects that never panned out for various reasons.

Jeremy Hermida (#4 prospect in 2006) .975 OPS in AA in 2005, currently without a team

Brandon Wood (#3 prospect in '06 and #8 in '07) Very good minor league hitter, many .900 OPS seasons

Andy Marte (#9 prospect in 2005) Power, high walks and the ability to go the other way. "Can't miss"

Delmon Young Ranked in top five including #1 prospect, has not exactly become a cornerstone

Sean Burroughs (top ten 2000-2002) Consistent minor league hitter, future batting champ according to many scouts

Carlos Pena (#5 in 2002) Killed minor league pitching, solid MLB player but nothing close to spectacular

Casey Kotchman (#6 in 2005) .323/.406/.491/.897 career minor league numbers

Can I list Brandon Wood twice? Or would that be "misguided?"

Yeah, I wasn't just referring to your post. Should have been clearer. A lot of the defenses of the trade from the KC perspective have made the argument that Shields is a sure thing based on past years and Myers isn't because he's still a "prospect."I'm guessing if you had the time and energy you could go on with your list like that for a while. But I could make the same list of guys with Shields' resume who flamed out. Look through the Cy Young ballots from just the last couple years and you'll find names like Dice-K, Webb, Ubaldo, Josh Johnson, Clay Buchholz, etc. My point was that at this stage in the game, Myers' development into an excellent player is only slightly less likely than Shields continuing at that level, and the money/years flips the equation pretty heavily.

It is a business decision vs a baseball decision. The best trades consider both but this one is mostly just a decision based on getting more wins in the next couple years to fill the stands and maybe get a pennant race to a city that could use one. KC already has a Myers, his name is Eric Hosmer who was the toast of the minor leagues and was a guy many thought would bust out last year into star territory. Now at age 23 he's washed up and Myers is certain to be better? That is laughable. While I was one of the first to criticize people who thought he was gonna put up Bagwell numbers last year I'll also be the first to say that he still has a long way to go until we figure out what kind of player he is. So KC is sick of these guys, they have him, Mous and Butler already and have a guy in Sal Perez who has a chance to be special.

Year after year after year you run out these top prospects and finish 70-92, it is not a good business model. The time is now, White Sox and Twins are in a transition phase and the Indians are just God awful from top to bottom. The Tigers can't seem to ever live up to expectations and are the clear favorites but if you can win against those other teams, and do decent away from the division you have a shot.

Should they have gotten a better baseball deal? Yeah sure. But they get a proven #2 starter who will be #1 for them and a back of the rotation guy who should be better than the trash they've been throwing out there the past few years. You have a line-up with Gordan who is grossly underrated, Butler who is a natural hitter, Moustakis who should continue to progress into a All-Star, Escobar who if he draws more walks is a real weapon and Sal Perez who has some serious power. If Hosmer can rebound and get things straight that is a very good, young line-up. Their bullpen always seems to be pretty good so the issue is starting pitching.

Business decision. Worst case scenario is you finish 70-92 the next two years and are criticized when Myers becomes a star. They'd be criticized anyway, they are the Royals. So you take a chance and hope the pitching sustains you through the year and you get into September for the first time in ten years with a chance to make the playoffs with your stands full and hot dog buns on back order.

You can't perpetually play for three years from now, Kansas City regardless of the baseball numbers made the right decision IMO. Whether they got the best deal is another matter and not really pertinent to me, they did something they thought could finally elevate the franchise. To me at this moment, it's a good trade for both teams. Tampa certainly has more to gain long-term and they really didn't need Shields anyway, so good for them. But the Royals did not get fleeced here, they made what they thought was the right business decision which might be a smart thing considering where their baseball decisions have gotten them the past 20 years.

 

[Northern Voice]

They would have been much further ahead IMO throwing stupid money at Anibal Sanchez and keeping Myers. The fact that they didn't may mean Anibal wasn't going there, no matter the price, in which case they paid what they had to to get a top of rotation pitcher.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Business decision.

I guess I can buy that. I don't know much about the vibe in KC but from what I can gather the fans there are tired of losing and are getting angry with the Royals (and the Chiefs). And you're right about this being a good time to strike with the AL Central way down across the board except for the Tigers. But it seems like if you're gonna deal guys of that caliber you should be able to do better than two arb seasons of a #2 starter and an end of rotation guy/reliever. Just looking at it purely from a "value of the assets" standpoint it jumps out as really one-sided. Kind of wonder if they started out going for Price considering the quality of prospects and then just fell short, pulled a couple prospects back, and did they best they could.

 

[guru_007]

They would have been much further ahead IMO throwing stupid money at Anibal Sanchez and keeping Myers. The fact that they didn't may mean Anibal wasn't going there, no matter the price, in which case they paid what they had to to get a top of rotation pitcher.

This is what I'm inclined to believe too.Just because you offer the guy a lot of money, doesn't mean he has to go to your club. I'm not saying I like the deal for the Royals, considering they needed to sweeten the deal by adding three prospects on top of Myers - but, now they at least can probably field a team that wins 80+ games this year. And if they are a few games away from the playoffs, maybe next offseason they can try landing another top line starter - Santana is only on a one year deal, so they'll have money freed up.One thing I was considering is there was a comparison made of Myers to Jay Bruce. Is Jay Bruce worthy of a trade for Shields and Davis alone? Would the Rays do that trade? Would the Reds do that trade? Personally I don't think Bruce is all that great. The Royals have been stockpiling prospects over the years, and really not getting much in return for them. This trade was a huge stretch, imho, but at least it appears they are willing to try to win now.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

 

[Premier]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

Rays are built to win now too, and Myers is ready.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

Rays are built to win now too, and Myers is ready.

Not saying Starling to the Rays. Saying generally if the idea is that you're tired of playing for three years from now and you want to win because the AL Central is down and the fan base is impatient, why not dangle Starling? As you say, Myers might contribute next year, to the Royals as well as the Rays. Starling can't.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

Rays are built to win now too, and Myers is ready.

Not saying Starling to the Rays. Saying generally if the idea is that you're tired of playing for three years from now and you want to win because the AL Central is down and the fan base is impatient, why not dangle Starling? As you say, Myers might contribute next year, to the Royals as well as the Rays. Starling can't.

How do you know they didn't try that? They probably did. And back to my point above, the Royals already have a Wil Meyers: his name is Eric Hosmer. How many of these guys do you want on a team? We already have pudding for dessert, why are why buying more pudding when we could get a pork shank?

 

[Bogart]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

Rays are built to win now too, and Myers is ready.

Not saying Starling to the Rays. Saying generally if the idea is that you're tired of playing for three years from now and you want to win because the AL Central is down and the fan base is impatient, why not dangle Starling? As you say, Myers might contribute next year, to the Royals as well as the Rays. Starling can't.

How do you know they didn't try that? They probably did. And back to my point above, the Royals already have a Wil Meyers: his name is Eric Hosmer. How many of these guys do you want on a team? We already have pudding for dessert, why are why buying more pudding when we could get a pork shank?

I'm hungry now.

 

[Thunderlips]

Seems to me like people are selling Davis short while pumping up Ordozzi. Isn't Ordozzi a "Davis style" prospect, yet a couple of years younger?...and while being younger is usually better; aren't we to assume that Ordozzi's youth isn't going to allow him the 200IP capability for the next couple of years that Davis already has?

This trade makes the Royals better than they were for the next couple of years....and while I'm not going to argue against them maybe signing Haren for a year and re-evaluating....if healthy, Shields will give them a gamer for the next two years.*

* and at the worst, he's young and good enough that if they're sucking during the stretch run two years from now....they could move him in an effort to recoup the lost minor league talent.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Seems to me like people are selling Davis short while pumping up Ordozzi. Isn't Ordozzi a "Davis style" prospect, yet a couple of years younger?...and while being younger is usually better; aren't we to assume that Ordozzi's youth isn't going to allow him the 200IP capability for the next couple of years that Davis already has?This trade makes the Royals better than they were for the next couple of years....and while I'm not going to argue against them maybe signing Haren for a year and re-evaluating....if healthy, Shields will give them a gamer for the next two years.** and at the worst, he's young and good enough that if they're sucking during the stretch run two years from now....they could move him in an effort to recoup the lost minor league talent.

Haren signed with the Nats.

 

[Thunderlips]

Seems to me like people are selling Davis short while pumping up Ordozzi. Isn't Ordozzi a "Davis style" prospect, yet a couple of years younger?...and while being younger is usually better; aren't we to assume that Ordozzi's youth isn't going to allow him the 200IP capability for the next couple of years that Davis already has?This trade makes the Royals better than they were for the next couple of years....and while I'm not going to argue against them maybe signing Haren for a year and re-evaluating....if healthy, Shields will give them a gamer for the next two years.** and at the worst, he's young and good enough that if they're sucking during the stretch run two years from now....they could move him in an effort to recoup the lost minor league talent.

iHaren signed with the Nats.

Right.....I meant I wouldnt have had a problem with them signing him before.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Look, teams of this ilk will do desperate things like offering Juan Gonzalez a 7 year $148 mm contract, giving Bobby Higginson a fat above-market deal and signing a older Pudge a 4 year $40mm dollar deal. I lived the Royals for 15 years, same #### year after year after year. Except the Tigers had no prospects because Randy Smith was a complete moron, possibly the dumbest GM of any sport, ever. So they did what they could to fill the seats for years and they went 12 straight years without a winning season. Sucked.

Then they started drafting better (Verlander, Granderson), getting guys in trades (Bonderman, Polanco, Carlos Guillen) and then really getting lucky/smart in free agency (Kenny Rogers, Magglio). Would they have traded a Wil Myers away in 2005? No, but they didn't have any Wil Myers guys either, in fact the Tigers haven't had any real elite position prospects since Alan Trammell. But if this was 2005 and the Tigers were in the same spot with this roster, I would welcome the trade as a fan. You just can't run out the same type of team year in and year out and expect fans to stay interested, at some point you have to take a chance and your window might be small. I say the window is now.

Also Shields already said he'd talk extension, lock him up for four years and this deal looks less lopsided. I'm not even arguing the Royals perspective to be argumentative, just think there is a certain point where you have to do something drastic.

 

[Premier]

What about Shields outside the Trop and without the Rays top-notch defense behind him? Isn't that a seriously legitimate concern?

 

[Eephus]

Also if the idea is to trade prospects because you want to win soon, why not deal Starling instead of Myers? That guy's not gonna contribute in the next two seasons and he would've brought a king's ransom.

Rays are built to win now too, and Myers is ready.

Not saying Starling to the Rays. Saying generally if the idea is that you're tired of playing for three years from now and you want to win because the AL Central is down and the fan base is impatient, why not dangle Starling? As you say, Myers might contribute next year, to the Royals as well as the Rays. Starling can't.

How do you know they didn't try that? They probably did. And back to my point above, the Royals already have a Wil Meyers: his name is Eric Hosmer. How many of these guys do you want on a team? We already have pudding for dessert, why are why buying more pudding when we could get a pork shank?

Hosmer is left handed hitting 1B with supposedly a great hit tool (although he didn't show it in 2012) but just OK power for his position. Myers is a right handed bat, should be a plus defender in RF and projects as a bigger power threat than Hosmer does. The Royals already have a Hosmer but his name is Billy Butler, but probably the old doubles hitting Butler.KC finished tied for last in the AL in HRs. They need another power bat.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What about Shields outside the Trop and without the Rays top-notch defense behind him? Isn't that a seriously legitimate concern?

Royals D as good or better than Rays D. Kauffman is about an even park factor so it's not like he's going to Coors, should be ok.

 

[Premier]

What about Shields outside the Trop and without the Rays top-notch defense behind him? Isn't that a seriously legitimate concern?

Royals D as good or better than Rays D. Kauffman is about an even park factor so it's not like he's going to Coors, should be ok.

Hope you're right. I'll never root against the guy.

 

[Premier]

What about Shields outside the Trop and without the Rays top-notch defense behind him? Isn't that a seriously legitimate concern?

Royals D as good or better than Rays D. Kauffman is about an even park factor so it's not like he's going to Coors, should be ok.

Defense? By defensive efficiency — a measure of what percentage of the time a defense turns a ball in play into an out — the Rays have had the best or second-best defense in the major leagues for each of the past three years. By comparison, over the past three seasons the Royals have ranked 28th, 24th, and 26th in defensive efficiency.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What about Shields outside the Trop and without the Rays top-notch defense behind him? Isn't that a seriously legitimate concern?

Royals D as good or better than Rays D. Kauffman is about an even park factor so it's not like he's going to Coors, should be ok.

Defense? By defensive efficiency — a measure of what percentage of the time a defense turns a ball in play into an out — the Rays have had the best or second-best defense in the major leagues for each of the past three years. By comparison, over the past three seasons the Royals have ranked 28th, 24th, and 26th in defensive efficiency.

Despite leading the league in defensive efficiency in 2012 the Rays defense struggled. The Rays did the unusual in 2012 and became the first team since the 1945 Washington Senators to lead the league in ERA (3.19) and commit the most errors (114).The Rays went from first in fielding in 2011 to last in fielding in 2012. Their defense only allowed 27 unearned runs in 2011 and they matched that total by their 68th game in 2012. Their catchers tied a major league record with 5 catchers interference calls which all came within the first 58 games of the year.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Royals fielding:

C Sal Perez Raw but physical and strong throwing arm. Developing.

1B meh, league average

2B meh, Chris Getz is only known as the subway vigilante's nephew, not as a plus fielder

SS Alcides Escobar: great range, gets to everything, great hands, still makes bad decisions. Gold glove calibar fielder (not Jeter GG but Hardy GG)

3B Mosutakis Above average fielder, soft hands, strong arm and smart. Average range

LF Gordan is the best LFer in baseball

CF Dyson and Cain both have ridiculous range, especially Cain.

RF Franceour one of the best OF arms in baseball, throws a Tiger out at 3B every series

I always tell my closest Tiger fan friends that I wish the Tigers looked like the Royals on D. Seems like they could use a better 2Bman but I like the rest of the team and especially love the OF and Escobar. Rays could be better, I like the Royals regardless.

 

[Premier]

Yea I really know nothing about the Royals. Like, at all. I probably know more about a few NBA teams.

(that last sentence is a lie)

 

[Brady Marino]

Heyman reports the Twins are going to sign Kevin Correia to a two year deal. Excuse me while I yawn.