cstu
Footballguy
Yes, and these are all very good signings so far.
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*** Official 2012 San Diego Chargers **** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bicycle_seat_sniffer
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
That would make sense. I can see the Chargers drafting a backup RB rather than over-paying for Tolbert though.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Green is penciled in to be the starter. He played well at the end of the year replacing Dielman and worked well with Gaither. The team said he'll get penciled in at starting LG. I'm sure there will be a rookie drafted to backup and compete though.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
He is pretty old too, just s depth move IMO. But if he can tackle, then he's better than what they got
cstu
Footballguy
He may not be a guy to have on 3rd downs, but there's nothing wrong with having guys who can tackle. Being able to stop the run is huge in this divison.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
Ughhh. I completely disagree with that.I don't think it's a coincidence that a team like New Orleans is in salary cap hell, can't afford to retain their All-Pro guard in Nicks but replaces him with a more cost effective but still Pro-Bowl player in Grubbs. I think that's the real difference between the NO offense and the SD offense, besides the fact NO is still passing when they are up by 20.
I'm happy they retained the services of Gaither but really what have they done to improve the OL that sucked last year? They've pretty much just kept guys that haven't been getting it done for years now. During the season it seems obvious that the reason they go on losing streaks is because of the OL. After a few months, maybe because we are FF geeks, it doesn't seem all that strange they choose to pour resources in other areas. Sign Carl Nicks and Josh Morgan for less than it would have cost to retain Vincent Jackson. Or even Grubbs and Meachem. Or at the very least improve the center position. Just look to improve your weakest unit.
I look at the OL and compare it to the unit that ended the season missing the playoffs and I don't see much improvement. Does anyone else?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think they are trying to assemble a LB corp full of situation-type players. Johnson seems pretty highly paid to be a running situation LB. They should have spent just a little more and signed Grubbs.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'd call it a mixed bag so far.The most important move was bringing back Gaither so kudos for that. I like the McClain move.Meachem and Johnson were overpaid imo and didn't address the areas of greatest need: OL and DL.I would have really liked to seen a guy like Richard Marshall. Still in his prime. Would have offered a ton of flexibility to either push Cason at CB or team with Weddle at S. Has proven he can be solid at both positions. He would have been a 3-down player payed only slightly higher than Johnson who is more of a situation player on defense.I was a little disappointed they didn't make a run at Soliai but at $9mil/season that's a pretty steep price. Still, SD should be willing to overspend in the trenches imo. They have to improve in those two phases of the game otherwise all these other moves are kind of meaningless.
Kevin Acee: "Hardwick, Meachem, Gaither, Johnson, McClain count $13.65 million against cap in 2012. Vincent Jackson's cap number=$13 million."
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I was going by this link...http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4365/paul-soliai
... but I trust your source more.
I agree, it seems like there was a great deal of interest in him so I'm not sure why he accepted the deal in MIA... maybe he just enjoys the lifestyle/tax situation in FLA and gave MIA a home town discount.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
After they released McNeil shouldn't they have freed up quite a bit more cap space?"$10,500,000 million (salary) - $1,194,000 million (cap penalty) = $9,306,000 (cap savings)Let's round it out to $9.3 million, and the Chargers cap space goes from $14.9 million to $24.2 million overnight, just by releasing Marcus McNeill. Now, the big question.... What can $24.2 million buy the Chargers? Your answer is after the jump."This was before FA began obviously.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Chargers | Charlie Whitehurst added Fri Mar 16, 07:58 PM
The San Diego Chargers agreed to terms with free-agent QB Charlie Whitehurst (Seahawks) on a two-year contract Friday, March 16.
Link to story
Thanks for the free pick Seattle
The San Diego Chargers agreed to terms with free-agent QB Charlie Whitehurst (Seahawks) on a two-year contract Friday, March 16.
Link to story
Thanks for the free pick Seattle
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Chargers |Billy Volek released Fri Mar 16, 09:54 PM
The San Diego Chargers released QB Billy Volek Friday, March 16. Volek was due a $750,000 roster bonus Thursday, March 22.
Our view: Volek became expendable once the Chargers re-signed Charlie Whitehurst. He is a valuable veteran backup and should get some interest around the league.
Link to story
Billy Volek player page
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Chargers | Atari Bigby agrees to two-year deal Fri Mar 16, 09:50 PM
The San Diego Chargers have agreed to terms with free-agent SS Atari Bigby (Seahawks) on a two-year, $2.5 million deal, Friday, March 16, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. Bigby can earn up to $4.5 million through playing time incentives.
Link to story
The San Diego Chargers released QB Billy Volek Friday, March 16. Volek was due a $750,000 roster bonus Thursday, March 22.
Our view: Volek became expendable once the Chargers re-signed Charlie Whitehurst. He is a valuable veteran backup and should get some interest around the league.
Link to story
Billy Volek player page
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Chargers | Atari Bigby agrees to two-year deal Fri Mar 16, 09:50 PM
The San Diego Chargers have agreed to terms with free-agent SS Atari Bigby (Seahawks) on a two-year, $2.5 million deal, Friday, March 16, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. Bigby can earn up to $4.5 million through playing time incentives.
Link to story
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Chargers | Randy McMichael returns Sat Mar 17, 06:30 PM
Free-agent TE Randy McMichael is returning to the San Diego Chargers. He agreed to a two-year deal. Financial terms are not yet available.
Free-agent TE Randy McMichael is returning to the San Diego Chargers. He agreed to a two-year deal. Financial terms are not yet available.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Division rivals...
KC improves their RT spot with Winston at ~$5.5mil/season.
OAK improves at G signing Brisiel for ~$4mil/season.
Meanwhile, AJ seems fine with Green and Clary as starters but can find ~$4.5mil/season for a #4 WR/returner in Royal and ~$5mil/season for a part time LB in Johnson. For that matter Grubbs, a pro-bowl guard, only went for a little more $ than what Meachem was signed for. Can you imagine how much better this team would be with Grubbs/Brisiel/Winston starting and having Clary/Vasquez for depth if, oh I dunno, there might be an injury on the OL at some point this season?
KC improves their RT spot with Winston at ~$5.5mil/season.
OAK improves at G signing Brisiel for ~$4mil/season.
Meanwhile, AJ seems fine with Green and Clary as starters but can find ~$4.5mil/season for a #4 WR/returner in Royal and ~$5mil/season for a part time LB in Johnson. For that matter Grubbs, a pro-bowl guard, only went for a little more $ than what Meachem was signed for. Can you imagine how much better this team would be with Grubbs/Brisiel/Winston starting and having Clary/Vasquez for depth if, oh I dunno, there might be an injury on the OL at some point this season?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I have to believe they're going to address OL and DL in the draft. Johnson's good depth (I think his signing speaks to uncertainty about Mouton and how old Spikes is), but they still need to improve the pass rush.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Michael Bush signs for 4 years $12 mill to back up Forte. Did SD even look? No they are after Jackie Battle?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Brinkley? Hester? Ugh. If they dont draft someone in like round 3/4 or address in F/A helps us if Ryan gets hurt
cstu
Footballguy
I'm not worried - this is a deep RB draft and the Chargers have a knack for finding hidden gems.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I know people have a lot of preconceived notions about Kevin Smith because he was on the really crappy Lions teams and looked bad the year after his ACL tear. Right now I think he has the most talent of any of the FA guys left. Smith would have to think he is 3rd string for the Lions, and backing up an often injured Ryan Mathews at second string may look enticing. He would be cheap and I do not think he would be a downgrade from Tolbert.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I couldn't agree more.This team has so many holes I don't think they really have the luxury of spending $ or even mid picks on backups RB's. I think they really need a starting OG, OT, NT, and DE. I don't really see that happening unless they play the draft like the Patriots. Of course, when you are the Patriots you sign guys like Gallery, Allen and Gonzales for $1mil or less and you don't HAVE to take guys in the draft just to fill holes. I would much rather have those three guys for less than they paid Eddie Royal as an example.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
O RLY???
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I wouldn't be against him as a camp participant but I think it's very possible that a few guys with more upside may be available as rosters trim down. In particular Goodson(CAR) and Washington(SEA) may be on the roster bubble. Goodson has shown flashes in the past but calling that backfield crowded would be an understatement. Washington has actually been pretty healthy of late but with Lynch taking on the role as lead back it's left Washington with 80 carries combined over the past two seasons. He's certainly not a spring chicken but because he's been used so sparingly I think there's a lot of tread left on those tires.
They've missed on a few mid-to-late rounders (Gartrell Johnson, Marcus Thomas), but they've hit on a few as well (Darren Sproles, Michael Turner).'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Interesting thought. Not sure if he's willing to take a cheap deal, but if so, I'd approve of taking a flyer on Smith. I always thought he ran with tenacity when I watched him in Detroit.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I agree that the OL needs help, and I'm guessing AJ and Co. have determined that our position in the draft means we'll likely have an opportunity to add a big beast. I'm probably in the minority, but I love the Royal signing. I was never comfortable with Goodman and/or Cason back there fielding punts last year, and let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Floyd is going to be the #2 guy for 16 games. I like VBrown, but I'm not sure I'm ready for him to move into the #2 role for the 8+ games Malcom will miss. Royal has some of the best hands in the game (his drop percentage is minuscule) and will be a fantastic weapon for Philip on 3rd downs. I really, really like adding Royal and Meachem for ~ the same dollars as it would have cost us for VJax.
I also love the Royal signing. It wouldn't surprise me if he's more productive than Meachem. His stats haven't been good over the last few years, but he's quick, he runs good routes, and he has good hands. He can play, he just needs an accurate QB. (Similar to Deion Branch.)
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Another thing I like is Royal's ability to add a little "wiggle". Meachum seems to be in the same line as Jackson, Floyd, and Brown, guys that are more fast than quick. Obviously there are many ways to be productive, but this offense has lacked a receiver who could catch a short in and juke a couple defenders for a big gain. Sproles was certainly that guy, but it puts a different pressure on the defense having a receiver provide that escapability factor.
I don't love the Royal signing. He's a good punt returner, but as a WR he's ranged from bad to atrocious from 2009-2011. The hype about his low drop rate notwithstanding, his catch rates have been 47%, 57%, 38% in the last three years compared to 61%, 58%, 51% for the Broncos overall.
Tau837
Footballguy
And aside from that, he only averaged 9.8 ypr over the past 3 seasons. That has to be one of the few lowest averages in the NFL.I must say I'm a bit surprised at all of the positive comments about his receiving skills. It's fine to have him return punts, but I would hope he doesn't see the field much on offense. On the other hand, if that were to end up being true, it seems like they overpaid for him (3 years, $13.5M).Another thing is that Royal has some durability issues. He has been on the injury report for thigh, quadriceps, hamstring, groin (2010 and 2011), ankle, toe, and concussion issues over the past two seasons, and he had hip surgery last offseason. In 2010, he played in 16 games but only started 10. Last year, he played in only 12 games, and only started 8 games.At this point, it seems that Meachem, Floyd, Brown, Royal, and Goodman are the 5 WRs who will make the roster. I suppose that means Royal will be the #4 WR over Goodman, so at least he shouldn't see too many snaps.
Tau837
Footballguy
Wow, if that turns out to be true, the Meachem signing will turn out to be a really bad signing.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I highly doubt that Royal out produces Meachem during their tenure in SD together.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Garay signs 2-year deal to remain with Chargers
HUGE
HUGE
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I just don't understand it. Lofton signs a contract like this...."Updating previous reports, New Orleans Saints LB Curtis Lofton is scheduled to make a base salary of $700,000 in 2012 and his salary cap number will be $1.7 million. He will receive a $1.1 million base salary as well as a $5 million roster bonus in 2013, a $1 million base salary and a $2 million roster bonus in 2014. In 2015, he is scheduled to receive a $2.4 million base salary, a $4.5 million roster bonus and a $100,000 workout bonus. He is scheduled to make a $5.4 million base salary in 2016 and will also receive a $100,000 workout bonus. He could make a base salary of $6 million in 2017 but has year of his contract is voidable."
... which is pretty much a 'prove it' contract where he makes very little the first year and if he proves to be valuable enough for the team to keep him he'll earn the rest of the contract. His cap figure appears(at least on the surface) to be much less than Jarret Johnson, yet Lofton seems to me like a better and more versatile 3-down player. Worst case scenario you have an entire year to groom a younger guy if you sign Lofton and he doesn't work out.
Since nobody else mentioned it I thought I'd throw in that Garay agreed to terms. So now they have both Garay and Hardwick back - the anchors of two completely uninspiring units this past season. People can say they are probably planning drafting OL/DL in the draft but at this point but how many OL/DLman do they need to draft just to improve on what they had last year which was pretty awful? You should get more games out of Gaither this season BUT you have to remember that you won't be getting any games out of Dielman this year and starting the year with Green(last I heard) is just awful. There's a chance they bring back Castillo so they can have yet another piece of the DL that was pretty terrible last year. Do they have a large number of first day picks that I'm not aware of?
I don't blame non-Charger fans for asking every year if the team goes into their annual tail spin because of the loss of a Sproles or now a VJ but am I alone among Charger fans that think the losing streak stems from inadequacies in both the OL and DL almost every single year? It seems like a glaring mismanagement of resources to me. They have been active in FA and I really liked the additions of McClain and Bigby but I guess I don't see anywhere near the improvement on this roster I was hoping to see at the end of the season.
QB - Slightly Worse - I don't think Volek is a world beater but he'd probably be the backup if he'd have accepted a pay cut.
RB - Slightly Worse - If Mathews is 100% healthy all year than they may actually be better with the improvement at FB but at this point I don't know how you can guess he'll be able to carry the entire load. Tolbert also brought intangibles to the table.
WR - Same. People seem to see something entirely different from Royal than I've been seeing for several years now. Nice rookie season... how long ago was that? He's had plenty of opportunity to step up in DEN. I still remember when he was supposed to be the "Wes Welker of the DEN offense".
TE - Same. I was hoping for an upgrade here now that Gates is at a point in his career where you have to assume he'll get dinged up for a few games every year. Rosario? Really?
OL - Same. Shocking.
DL - Worse. Again, shocking. They are now at the point they are hoping Castillo accepts an offer so they have the same poorly performing unit from last year.
LB - Slightly Better? This depends on what you expect out of Johnson. If you think he's a PT contributor at best I don't see a great deal of improvement here.
DB - Same. I actually like Bigby and think he has a shot to improve on the unit from last year but I don't think you can automatically assume he'll be better than Gregory until he proves it on the field. I really hoped they were going to bring in someone to push Cason who can be terrible at times.
Before people remind me that the draft is less than a month away I'd just like to ask how many starters people expect SD to net from the draft? Even if it were a "perfect draft"?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
It seems like not only is the coaching staff and front office in a holding pattern but the entire roster is being treated like a team that contended last year. It's kind of confusing. This was a .500 team last year and I see almost no reason for expectations of improvement from top to bottom. What a waste of Rivers in his prime.I hope Spanos is taking this year to find his next coach/gm. Typically I'm the one saying that there isn't as big a difference from the poor and elite teams in this league as we make them out to be but there is no way this roster is a SB contender. I don't even see a single playoff victory as possible with the current roster due to the weakness in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Luckily there aren't any dominant teams in the division so if everything fell just right they might lose a playoff game but really I think every other team in the division has improved more than SD. Again, what a waste of Rivers in his prime.
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cstu
Footballguy
BoltBacker, I agree with about the OL/DL - it's almost always a weakness and still is. Some comments about your position analysis:
QB - this comes down to how Rivers plays so I would rate it the same, if not better assuming Rivers plays like he normally does. If we need a backup then the season is over anyway.
RB - Tolbert did a very respectable job he really shouldn't have seen the field as much as he did. Mathews has to stay healthy for this team to go anywhere.
WR - I never felt VJax was a dominant player - nice stats at the end of the year but he wasn't a dominant #1. Meachem is a poor man's VJax, Vincent Brown should be better and Royal should be effective on special teams and as a #4 WR. Overall I like this unit better than last year's.
TE - Can't count on Gates staying healthy and Rosario is at least younger...at best the same but probably worse since Gates is another year older.
Agree with you on the OL and defense. The good news is that they can take all OL and defense in the draft. I wouldn't even draft a RB since there will be UDFA's available due to the depth of this class.
QB - this comes down to how Rivers plays so I would rate it the same, if not better assuming Rivers plays like he normally does. If we need a backup then the season is over anyway.
RB - Tolbert did a very respectable job he really shouldn't have seen the field as much as he did. Mathews has to stay healthy for this team to go anywhere.
WR - I never felt VJax was a dominant player - nice stats at the end of the year but he wasn't a dominant #1. Meachem is a poor man's VJax, Vincent Brown should be better and Royal should be effective on special teams and as a #4 WR. Overall I like this unit better than last year's.
TE - Can't count on Gates staying healthy and Rosario is at least younger...at best the same but probably worse since Gates is another year older.
Agree with you on the OL and defense. The good news is that they can take all OL and defense in the draft. I wouldn't even draft a RB since there will be UDFA's available due to the depth of this class.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
The only reason I liked the Meachem signing is because he seems likely to be ~75% as productive as VJ at 50% the salary. I agree with you on Brown, I've said all along that I'd like to see him get as much playing time as possible and I think he will pick up some of the slack.I just look at what teams like SF and NE and think their approach was much better. Lloyd/Gonzales or Manningham/Ginn are making roughly 50% of what Meachem/Royal are and if they were in SD I think they would be every bit as effective.I'm obviously not nearly as bullish on Royal as some of the people in this thread seem to be. He's a 4th year vet with a 19/144/1 stat line as a WR last year. Didn't hear a single bronco fan disappointed in losing him.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
hey Boltbacker, I think we have to accept that this team is kind of mini-rebuilding, especially in the trenches. Unfortunately I dont think SD makes the playoffs again, but the silver lining is that Norv will be gone, so will AJ (not sure if that is good or bad, he was money early in his career in SD but now I think he lost his touch).
Window is closed
Window is closed
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Window is never closed when you have a HOF quarterback. If we've learned anything the past few years, it's that anyone can get hot at the right time and make a SB run. See the Giants, Cardinals, Seahawks, Panthers, Bucs, etc.
cstu
Footballguy
Or when you're an ever optimistic Chargers fan who's a glutton for punishment.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Rivers isnt going into the HOF, get real
Sad reality of life in Charger-ville: this post could have been dated 3/2010, 3/2011, or 3/2012.
Tau837
Footballguy
As a huge Rivers fan, unfortunately I have to agree.Of his contemporaries to date, there are already at least 3 (Peyton Manning, Brady, and Brees) who IMO are locks and 3 others (Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers) who are significantly ahead of Rivers at this point. (Not including Favre and Warner, both HOF locks whose careers overlapped Rivers' career.)Rivers isnt going into the HOF, get real
For Rivers to make it, he's going to have to do two or more of the following:
1. Play for several more years at a high level (higher than last year)
2. Win one or more MVPs
3. Earn multiple All Pro selections
4. Win at least one Super Bowl
Tau837
Footballguy
Totally agree. Highly unlikely that Rivers makes the HOF unless he just accumulates a huge number of career yards and td's and ends up in the Top 5 in both categories. The Warren Moon route, I guess.As a huge Rivers fan, unfortunately I have to agree.Of his contemporaries to date, there are already at least 3 (Peyton Manning, Brady, and Brees) who IMO are locks and 3 others (Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers) who are significantly ahead of Rivers at this point. (Not including Favre and Warner, both HOF locks whose careers overlapped Rivers' career.)Rivers isnt going into the HOF, get real
For Rivers to make it, he's going to have to do two or more of the following:
1. Play for several more years at a high level (higher than last year)
2. Win one or more MVPs
3. Earn multiple All Pro selections
4. Win at least one Super Bowl
cstu
Footballguy
He already has 4 and it would be difficult to keep an 8 or 9 time Pro Bowl QB out of the HOF. However, the two guys QB's with careers closest to Rivers so far are Bledsoe and Esiason and both fell off after 30.His best chance though is winning a SB and I think it would be a lock if he wins one.As a huge Rivers fan, unfortunately I have to agree.Of his contemporaries to date, there are already at least 3 (Peyton Manning, Brady, and Brees) who IMO are locks and 3 others (Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers) who are significantly ahead of Rivers at this point. (Not including Favre and Warner, both HOF locks whose careers overlapped Rivers' career.)Rivers isnt going into the HOF, get real
For Rivers to make it, he's going to have to do two or more of the following:
1. Play for several more years at a high level (higher than last year)
2. Win one or more MVPs
3. Earn multiple All Pro selections
4. Win at least one Super Bowl
Tau837
Footballguy
Here are the QBs who have been inducted since the class of 2000:Troy AikmanHe already has 4 and it would be difficult to keep an 8 or 9 time Pro Bowl QB out of the HOF. However, the two guys QB's with careers closest to Rivers so far are Bledsoe and Esiason and both fell off after 30.His best chance though is winning a SB and I think it would be a lock if he wins one.As a huge Rivers fan, unfortunately I have to agree.Of his contemporaries to date, there are already at least 3 (Peyton Manning, Brady, and Brees) who IMO are locks and 3 others (Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers) who are significantly ahead of Rivers at this point. (Not including Favre and Warner, both HOF locks whose careers overlapped Rivers' career.)Rivers isnt going into the HOF, get real
For Rivers to make it, he's going to have to do two or more of the following:
1. Play for several more years at a high level (higher than last year)
2. Win one or more MVPs
3. Earn multiple All Pro selections
4. Win at least one Super Bowl
Warren Moon
Steve Young
Dan Marino
John Elway
Jim Kelly
Joe Montana
The next four QBs likely to be inducted are:
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
So how will Rivers measure up to those 11 QBs?
Montana, Elway, Brady, and Aikman all won multiple Super Bowls, in addition to other compelling accomplishments. Manning, Young, Favre, and Warner each won one Super Bowl, earned at least 2 1st team All Pro selections, and won at least one MVP award, in addition to other compelling accomplishments. Marino held all of the all-time records when he retired. It seems unlikely at this point that Rivers will measure up to this group.
That leaves the current/recent HOF QB bar set by Moon and Kelly. Moon retired from the NFL in the top 4 all time in passing attempts, completions, yards, and TDs. Kelly led his team to 4 straight Super Bowls.
If Rivers ultimately retires in the top 5 in yards and TDs and/or leads his teams to 4 straight Super Bowls, he should get in. But at this point, both of those accomplishments seem like long shots.
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