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***OFFICIAL*** 2013 MINNESOTA VIKINGS SEASON THREAD (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Beo
- Start date
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Maybe that is just the way they want it?!The only two quarterbacks likely to be drafted that haven’t been linked to the Vikings yet are Garrett Gilbert of SMU and Brett Smith of Wyoming.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Peter King talks in his MMQB column about the Vikings tough decision on when to draft a QB. http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/21/2014-nfl-draft-rumors-monday-morning-quarterback/ He comes to the conclusion that the wiser course of action is not to draft one in round 1 and points to Russell Wilson and Nick Foles as a valid reason to avoid the first round QBs.
The problem with that is he is assuming that there are a Russell Wilson or Nick Foles type player in this draft. Frankly, I don't see QBs that have anything close to Wilson or Foles type resume in the later rounds. Take a look at the draft history of the QB drafted prior to 2011. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb He has to realize that odds are stacked against finding a franchise QB in the later rounds and 2012 or 2011 for that matter were not typical.
Bottom line is I don't believe the Vikings shouldn't avoid first round QBs just because they have been burned in the past.
The problem with that is he is assuming that there are a Russell Wilson or Nick Foles type player in this draft. Frankly, I don't see QBs that have anything close to Wilson or Foles type resume in the later rounds. Take a look at the draft history of the QB drafted prior to 2011. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb He has to realize that odds are stacked against finding a franchise QB in the later rounds and 2012 or 2011 for that matter were not typical.
Bottom line is I don't believe the Vikings shouldn't avoid first round QBs just because they have been burned in the past.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
I heard a few stories about Johnny Football's stock is dropping, to mid to late first. I'll just be happy if we DON'T take him, just like I didn't want T'eo last year.
Also it seems like all the QB's are dropping in rankings even for us at 8, which is fine by me.
Also it seems like all the QB's are dropping in rankings even for us at 8, which is fine by me.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
I don't believe any quarterback is 1st round worthy this year. Too many question marks for all of them. Some QB from this class could turn out to be franchise, but who is a huge guess. Pick 8 is way too early.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This guy does a pretty good job of summarizing what we have been talking about.
The idea of Cassel starting all season does not excite me. Norv will put him in position to be successful, but Cassel has limitations and those will be exposed the more he plays.
The idea of Ponder having to start frightens me. Although Ponder could improve under Norv's guidance, I think most of us have seen enough of Ponder by now that no one should want to see him starting again. I used to think he could be a quality back up QB. I do not really feel that way anymore. If he does re-emerge at some point, like Rich Gannon did later on in his career, I think it will have to be with another team.
I do however feel pretty good about the Vikings options if they should trade down to somewhere in the teens of the 1st round.
It would not be as big of a risk to draft a QB there (in the teens) as it would be at pick 8. The extra picks gained in a trade down would make such a pick even less of an investment, since the Vikings would have an extra pick(s) to use on another player, including possibly a second QB.
Mosley or Shazier will likely be 1st round picks. So if the Vikings are to get help there I think they need to trade down and be prepared to take two QB in the later rounds (even if this means cutting Ponder for a roster spot). It is possible that the QB the Vikings might draft at pick 8 could fall into the teens still as well. If not then one of these LB will likely be there. If they are not totally sold on any of these QB then it will not be a huge loss if a QB they do like gets taken before their pick after they trade down.
I think there will be plenty of teams willing to move up to the Vikings spot.
Most likely for one of the top 3 tackles or for a pass rusher. So Spielman will get all of those interested teams bidding against each other as well as he can and get the best price in a trade down while also still getting a quality player in the teens of the 1st round.
Then with extra picks gained, Spielman can think about using those to move back up to the 1st or early second round.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
It seems that Garoppolo perceived draft stock may have dipped in recent weeks and Mettenberger may have risen.
I am curious where Viking fans on this board stand. Who do you prefer out of the two?
I still prefer Garoppolo
I am curious where Viking fans on this board stand. Who do you prefer out of the two?
I still prefer Garoppolo
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Garoppolo has the quickest release from this year's stock, but to me it's Norv who likes his big armed QB which is why I think we'd most likely would take Mettenberger or Garoppolo
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I prefer Garappalo to Mettenberg as well.
I like Brett Smith and Garret Gilbert a bit more than those 2.
I like Brett Smith and Garret Gilbert a bit more than those 2.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Wow. Way to a take a stand.
I am surprised that you like Smith and Gilbert that much. I have Garappolo as Plan B. Smith and Gilbert are Plan C and D respectively.
BTW: I am not going to criticize anyone if they like Mettenberger better or someone else for that matter. Just want to know how people feel prior to the draft.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If they want to redshirt season the rookie QB (or at least until late in the season) then I do not see any reason to not take the QB with the most upside. If they draft 2 later QB then it won't matter as much if one of them develops more slowly. Just play whoever is the most ready.
When people are talking about Bortles as a project who would benefit from similar treatment (I suppose most QB likely would) then I just don't see the reason to invest as high of a pick in a player who will sit for a year when you can get other QB like that later on. On the same token do not pass on a higher upside player at QB just because you want the QB who is most ready to play today.
I would be ok with the second QB being a guy like Tajh Boyd or Logan Thomas who are not currently ready for prime time but maybe later on could be. As long as it is not a high pick, may as well take full advantage of Norv while he is here.
It looks like Rob Rang moved Savage up to QB 5 on his list right after Carr now. I really do not know what to think about this. Not like he was totally an unknown until recently but I didn't see Rang or anyone ranking him anywhere high until a couple weeks ago.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Scouting QB Brett Smith: Possible Draft Target For Cowboys?
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/3/17/5517222/scouting-wyoming-quarterback-brett-smith-2014-nfl-draft-target-dallas-cowboys-tony-romo
By Tom Ryle @TomRyleBTB on Mar 17 2014
The Dallas Cowboys are bringing Brandon Weeden in for a visit. That should be enough of an indication that they are not feeling terribly good about their depth at quarterback this year.
With Kyle Orton reportedly thinking about leaving the game, they may need an experienced backup, and they also may not want to give Tony Romo as much work in OTA and pre-season practice as they would if he was not coming off his second back surgery.
Weeden should be nothing more than a candidate for backup, given his age and less than stellar tenure with the Cleveland Browns. Further, the move this year to cut DeMarcus Ware may foreshadow that the inevitable end of Romo's time with the Cowboys may not be that far off. It is time for Dallas to consider using a draft pick on a quarterback.
With the position the team has in the draft and the pressing needs on defense, it is not likely that Dallas would use a high pick, however. Add in that Jerry Jones is not a big fan of taking quarterbacks high and the conclusion is that the team would want to find someone later in the draft that has potential upside, but will not be taken early. The best scenario would be an under the radar player who may have slipped because of where he played rather than his own talent and skill set.
Some months ago, I came across a name that seems to fit the bill, Wyoming's Brett Smith. When I read Dane Brugler's profile of him at CBS Sports, I thought he sounded a bit like an unpolished Romo. I was very interested to see how he would fare at the NFL Combine.
It turned out that he did not get an invitation to Indianapolis, a decision that many felt was one of the more puzzling snubs. I don't pretend to be someone who can evaluate a player with video, so I was wondering where I could get a good analysis of his play.
I got lucky. One of my Twitter friends, @landonmccool, is someone who does do video, and over the past few months, I have gained a good deal of respect for his observations and objectivity. He is a good follow for any Cowboys fan. (As a side note, I know your Twitter friends and followers can be known as Tweeps. Are the people on Twitter who constantly annoy you known as Twerps?) In a series of tweets, Landon put up his own analysis of Smith, and he has kindly provided me a reworked version of what he said.
I watched Brett Smith's pro day video twice now... Better than expected velocity... He measured in with 10 inch hands, which helps him grip and rip... VERY athletic... Mechanics were as good as I've seen them.
First thing you notice in game film is terrible OL play often limits the ability to properly evaluate him. When I first watched him, I felt like he tried to take off running too often (and I still think he does it quite a bit) but it's mostly out of necessity. He has very good elusiveness (probably because of the aforementioned OL issues). I think because of that, and the type of offense Wyoming ran, roll out passes are a big part of his game. He is effective throwing the ball while on the run to either side.
At first glance I called him "short" but I would now alter that to "slight". He is over 6'2" with good knee bend in his stance, but could certainly stand to fill out a bit more. He doesn't even look 210 lbs. I hear others have some issues with his downfield passing. A lot of downfield passing is comprised of timing (which he has) and power (which he can gain). His arm is more than adequate, but would like to see less arch, and more "rope" in his deep pass trajectory.
On the other hand, his mid range passing is fantastic. This is also where he sees a lot of let down from his teammates. He often puts the ball exactly where it needs to be in tight windows, just to have his WRs drop it. Short passes as well. When he misses, it's because the ball sails on him when he doesn't incorporate his lower body into the throw. All this is pretty amazing, BECAUSE... his throwing motion and ESPECIALLY his footwork, need A LOT of work.
(Before I get into his mechanics issues, I will say that his footwork and delivery looked noticeably better from his '13 tape to his pro day. I know that it isn't against live competition, but his impressive Pro Day to me showed what this kid can do with some time focusing on his throwing mechanics.)
Part of it his the offensive system, but his footwork is basically awful. I think this is why he often gets Johnny Football comparisons, because he performs at a high level despite very shaky mechanics. His delivery looks a lot like Philip Rivers's in the sense that he often looks like he is "pushing" the ball, instead of generating torque and whipping it. I would like to see Smith compact his motion a bit, he can hang his elbow at times. & I don't think he is getting enough torque from legs. When Smith gets his body turned and the ball all the way back by his ear, it can hum. When he doesn't he shorts it, or it sails on him. I hear scouts talk about "getting your lower body sync'd with your upper body", that's what's at play here.
Needs to be consistently getting his lower body involved in throwing motion and twisting his hips when delivering. You will at times see his lower body moving not in conjunction with his upper body, or sometimes not moving at all. Along with refining his mechanics, and his footwork, he will need to learn to scan defenses while dropping from under center. Not sure I saw any snaps where he dropped back from center, which is not uncommon for College QBs nowadays. When OUT of the pocket, his passing is smooth & his body IS in sync, but he needs to quiet his feet when he is IN the pocket though. Remind you of someone?
Overall
:
He was a tough evaluation. He was the best player on his team, by far, and would often have to carry the team. Because of the lack of talent around him to compete against top teams, it was tough to evaluate him versus top talent, and he did not a great W-L record as a starter.
However... I REALLY like this kid, and it seems like he would be a perfect developmental guy. The unknown is how quickly he would take to coaching. But even with no change in footwork, throwing motion, he could have success in this league. His athleticism, and competiveness make him difficult to defend on third downs. He plays with the proverbial "chip on his shoulder", and is tough. Seen him take tough hits, get scraped off the carpet, and be running the QB keeper on the next play. Toughness + Competitiveness + Hand Size + Athleticism + Smarts, sounds like it = NFL QB to me.
I think his floor is a decent backup, but his ceiling is very very high.
I'd be comfortable taking him in the late 4
th
or 5
th
.
Landon's analysis just reinforced my belief that Smith would be a great pickup for Dallas. And it makes me feel good that he saw the same similarity to Romo. I don't know that the Cowboys are looking at him, but I hope they are. I especially like the fact that he looks like a serviceable backup at worst, and may be a great player to bring in and tutor while Romo hopefully still has a few good seasons left.
I, for one, am not at all in favor of waiting for the point where the Cowboys have to replace Romo. It would be wise to go ahead and start looking for solutions now. Rookie contracts are inexpensive, especially for later round picks, and a mistake now would not be as costly as having a first rounder turn out to be a bust.
I don't think Smith would be a bust at all. He may be just what the team should be looking for.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/3/17/5517222/scouting-wyoming-quarterback-brett-smith-2014-nfl-draft-target-dallas-cowboys-tony-romo
By Tom Ryle @TomRyleBTB on Mar 17 2014
The Dallas Cowboys are bringing Brandon Weeden in for a visit. That should be enough of an indication that they are not feeling terribly good about their depth at quarterback this year.
With Kyle Orton reportedly thinking about leaving the game, they may need an experienced backup, and they also may not want to give Tony Romo as much work in OTA and pre-season practice as they would if he was not coming off his second back surgery.
Weeden should be nothing more than a candidate for backup, given his age and less than stellar tenure with the Cleveland Browns. Further, the move this year to cut DeMarcus Ware may foreshadow that the inevitable end of Romo's time with the Cowboys may not be that far off. It is time for Dallas to consider using a draft pick on a quarterback.
With the position the team has in the draft and the pressing needs on defense, it is not likely that Dallas would use a high pick, however. Add in that Jerry Jones is not a big fan of taking quarterbacks high and the conclusion is that the team would want to find someone later in the draft that has potential upside, but will not be taken early. The best scenario would be an under the radar player who may have slipped because of where he played rather than his own talent and skill set.
Some months ago, I came across a name that seems to fit the bill, Wyoming's Brett Smith. When I read Dane Brugler's profile of him at CBS Sports, I thought he sounded a bit like an unpolished Romo. I was very interested to see how he would fare at the NFL Combine.
It turned out that he did not get an invitation to Indianapolis, a decision that many felt was one of the more puzzling snubs. I don't pretend to be someone who can evaluate a player with video, so I was wondering where I could get a good analysis of his play.
I got lucky. One of my Twitter friends, @landonmccool, is someone who does do video, and over the past few months, I have gained a good deal of respect for his observations and objectivity. He is a good follow for any Cowboys fan. (As a side note, I know your Twitter friends and followers can be known as Tweeps. Are the people on Twitter who constantly annoy you known as Twerps?) In a series of tweets, Landon put up his own analysis of Smith, and he has kindly provided me a reworked version of what he said.
Games watched: vs SDSU (2012), vs. Boise St, vs. Nebraska, Pro Day Throwing Footage
I watched Brett Smith's pro day video twice now... Better than expected velocity... He measured in with 10 inch hands, which helps him grip and rip... VERY athletic... Mechanics were as good as I've seen them.
First thing you notice in game film is terrible OL play often limits the ability to properly evaluate him. When I first watched him, I felt like he tried to take off running too often (and I still think he does it quite a bit) but it's mostly out of necessity. He has very good elusiveness (probably because of the aforementioned OL issues). I think because of that, and the type of offense Wyoming ran, roll out passes are a big part of his game. He is effective throwing the ball while on the run to either side.
At first glance I called him "short" but I would now alter that to "slight". He is over 6'2" with good knee bend in his stance, but could certainly stand to fill out a bit more. He doesn't even look 210 lbs. I hear others have some issues with his downfield passing. A lot of downfield passing is comprised of timing (which he has) and power (which he can gain). His arm is more than adequate, but would like to see less arch, and more "rope" in his deep pass trajectory.
On the other hand, his mid range passing is fantastic. This is also where he sees a lot of let down from his teammates. He often puts the ball exactly where it needs to be in tight windows, just to have his WRs drop it. Short passes as well. When he misses, it's because the ball sails on him when he doesn't incorporate his lower body into the throw. All this is pretty amazing, BECAUSE... his throwing motion and ESPECIALLY his footwork, need A LOT of work.
(Before I get into his mechanics issues, I will say that his footwork and delivery looked noticeably better from his '13 tape to his pro day. I know that it isn't against live competition, but his impressive Pro Day to me showed what this kid can do with some time focusing on his throwing mechanics.)
Part of it his the offensive system, but his footwork is basically awful. I think this is why he often gets Johnny Football comparisons, because he performs at a high level despite very shaky mechanics. His delivery looks a lot like Philip Rivers's in the sense that he often looks like he is "pushing" the ball, instead of generating torque and whipping it. I would like to see Smith compact his motion a bit, he can hang his elbow at times. & I don't think he is getting enough torque from legs. When Smith gets his body turned and the ball all the way back by his ear, it can hum. When he doesn't he shorts it, or it sails on him. I hear scouts talk about "getting your lower body sync'd with your upper body", that's what's at play here.
Needs to be consistently getting his lower body involved in throwing motion and twisting his hips when delivering. You will at times see his lower body moving not in conjunction with his upper body, or sometimes not moving at all. Along with refining his mechanics, and his footwork, he will need to learn to scan defenses while dropping from under center. Not sure I saw any snaps where he dropped back from center, which is not uncommon for College QBs nowadays. When OUT of the pocket, his passing is smooth & his body IS in sync, but he needs to quiet his feet when he is IN the pocket though. Remind you of someone?
Overall
:
He was a tough evaluation. He was the best player on his team, by far, and would often have to carry the team. Because of the lack of talent around him to compete against top teams, it was tough to evaluate him versus top talent, and he did not a great W-L record as a starter.
However... I REALLY like this kid, and it seems like he would be a perfect developmental guy. The unknown is how quickly he would take to coaching. But even with no change in footwork, throwing motion, he could have success in this league. His athleticism, and competiveness make him difficult to defend on third downs. He plays with the proverbial "chip on his shoulder", and is tough. Seen him take tough hits, get scraped off the carpet, and be running the QB keeper on the next play. Toughness + Competitiveness + Hand Size + Athleticism + Smarts, sounds like it = NFL QB to me.
I think his floor is a decent backup, but his ceiling is very very high.
I'd be comfortable taking him in the late 4
th
or 5
th
.
Landon's analysis just reinforced my belief that Smith would be a great pickup for Dallas. And it makes me feel good that he saw the same similarity to Romo. I don't know that the Cowboys are looking at him, but I hope they are. I especially like the fact that he looks like a serviceable backup at worst, and may be a great player to bring in and tutor while Romo hopefully still has a few good seasons left.
I, for one, am not at all in favor of waiting for the point where the Cowboys have to replace Romo. It would be wise to go ahead and start looking for solutions now. Rookie contracts are inexpensive, especially for later round picks, and a mistake now would not be as costly as having a first rounder turn out to be a bust.
I don't think Smith would be a bust at all. He may be just what the team should be looking for.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
You are preaching to the choir on Smith and Gilbert. I was wondering back in early March why most draft sites did not have Gilbert even listed as a draft prospect. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=688643&page=19#entry16596775 Daniel Jeremiah, as far as I know, is the only scout to actually give him a grade. He gave him a grade of a 5th or 6th round pick as recently as last night.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
In the Gil Brandt article above, he says "When all is said and done, I think he'll end up being a mid-round draft pick, maybe even as early as the third round."
Now this was March 28th following Gilberts pro day. Brandt has moved on to getting Savage talked about as a early second round pick recently.
Rob Rang has more of a write up on Brett Smith now than he did a couple weeks ago. Has him as a 6-7th round prospect. Gilbert he has no write up on and considers him a 7th round pick. He had nothing on Savage a couple weeks ago and now has him ranked 5th overall and a second round pick.
So I agree that some of the usual suspects not talking about these 2 QB as much as some of the others.
Nolan Nowarcki's recent top 50 has the QB ranked this way- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000342706/article/nolan-nawrockis-top-50-2014-nfl-draft-prospects-big-board
6.00-6.49 -- Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 -- Chance to become NFL starter
17. Blake Bortles, QB, Central FloridaPossesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter, and his arrow is very clearly ascending.
Grade: 6.22 | Draft projection: Round 1
20. Teddy Bridgewater, QB, LouisvilleA calculated, football-smart, precision-matchup rhythm passer, Bridgewater would be best suited entering a warm-weather or dome environment, such as those most common in the South divisions. Would stand to benefit heavily from operating a short, dink-and-dunk rhythm passing game.
Grade: 6.15 | Draft projection: Round 1
23. Derek Carr, QB, Fresno StateAthletic, tough, instinctive, strong-armed, highly competitive quarterback who will impress in workouts, interviews and on the board, and improved his draft standing with those skills in the postseason. Will be a starter sooner rather than later, and the degree to which he's able to make those around him better will determine his ceiling.
Grade: 6.14 | Draft projection: Round 1
26. Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&MA once-in-a-generation, run-around, ad-lib, sandlot-style quarterback who consistently won games playing a brand of fast-paced, jailbreak football that often goes off script and can be difficult to game plan with and against. Has defied the odds and proved to be a great college-system quarterback, but still must prove he is willing to work to be great, adjust his hard-partying, Hollywood lifestyle and be able to inspire his teammates by more than his playmaking ability.
Grade: 6.12 | Draft projection: Rounds 1-2
41. Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Eastern IllinoisPossesses the physical tools to eventually earn an NFL starting job in a rhythm passing game with continued refinement but is more of a caretaker than a game changer and will require some patience adapting to the NFL game.
Grade: 5.82 | Draft projection: Round 2
44. AJ McCarron, QB, AlabamaAn efficient game-managing quarterback who has shown he can carry an offense at times throughout his career, but more often is dependent on a terrific supporting cast. Grades out most highly for his intangibles and decision-making.
Grade: 5.76 | Draft projection: Round 2
Interestingly he also has Ryan Shazier ranked 13th overall and ahead of Eric Ebron.
13. Ryan Shazier, OLB, Ohio StateShazier offers a tremendous combination of speed, tackling and coverage skills to become a playmaker as a run-and-hit 4-3 Will or perhaps a 3-4 weakside 'backer if protected by a block-occupying nose tackle. Value is increased by the fact that he will not have to come off the field.
Grade: 6.3 | Draft projection: Round 1
So that suggests what I have been saying that Mosley and Shazier are better players than any of the QB.
Now this was March 28th following Gilberts pro day. Brandt has moved on to getting Savage talked about as a early second round pick recently.
Rob Rang has more of a write up on Brett Smith now than he did a couple weeks ago. Has him as a 6-7th round prospect. Gilbert he has no write up on and considers him a 7th round pick. He had nothing on Savage a couple weeks ago and now has him ranked 5th overall and a second round pick.
So I agree that some of the usual suspects not talking about these 2 QB as much as some of the others.
Nolan Nowarcki's recent top 50 has the QB ranked this way- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000342706/article/nolan-nawrockis-top-50-2014-nfl-draft-prospects-big-board
6.00-6.49 -- Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 -- Chance to become NFL starter
17. Blake Bortles, QB, Central FloridaPossesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter, and his arrow is very clearly ascending.
Grade: 6.22 | Draft projection: Round 1
20. Teddy Bridgewater, QB, LouisvilleA calculated, football-smart, precision-matchup rhythm passer, Bridgewater would be best suited entering a warm-weather or dome environment, such as those most common in the South divisions. Would stand to benefit heavily from operating a short, dink-and-dunk rhythm passing game.
Grade: 6.15 | Draft projection: Round 1
23. Derek Carr, QB, Fresno StateAthletic, tough, instinctive, strong-armed, highly competitive quarterback who will impress in workouts, interviews and on the board, and improved his draft standing with those skills in the postseason. Will be a starter sooner rather than later, and the degree to which he's able to make those around him better will determine his ceiling.
Grade: 6.14 | Draft projection: Round 1
26. Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&MA once-in-a-generation, run-around, ad-lib, sandlot-style quarterback who consistently won games playing a brand of fast-paced, jailbreak football that often goes off script and can be difficult to game plan with and against. Has defied the odds and proved to be a great college-system quarterback, but still must prove he is willing to work to be great, adjust his hard-partying, Hollywood lifestyle and be able to inspire his teammates by more than his playmaking ability.
Grade: 6.12 | Draft projection: Rounds 1-2
41. Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Eastern IllinoisPossesses the physical tools to eventually earn an NFL starting job in a rhythm passing game with continued refinement but is more of a caretaker than a game changer and will require some patience adapting to the NFL game.
Grade: 5.82 | Draft projection: Round 2
44. AJ McCarron, QB, AlabamaAn efficient game-managing quarterback who has shown he can carry an offense at times throughout his career, but more often is dependent on a terrific supporting cast. Grades out most highly for his intangibles and decision-making.
Grade: 5.76 | Draft projection: Round 2
Interestingly he also has Ryan Shazier ranked 13th overall and ahead of Eric Ebron.
13. Ryan Shazier, OLB, Ohio StateShazier offers a tremendous combination of speed, tackling and coverage skills to become a playmaker as a run-and-hit 4-3 Will or perhaps a 3-4 weakside 'backer if protected by a block-occupying nose tackle. Value is increased by the fact that he will not have to come off the field.
Grade: 6.3 | Draft projection: Round 1
So that suggests what I have been saying that Mosley and Shazier are better players than any of the QB.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I like Mettenberger a bit better. From what I have seen he isn't afraid to "throw WRs open" which is the anti-Ponder...he doesn't need a big window and will allow his WRs to make plays. Granted he had some good ones at LSU, but you have to trust your arm and he seems to. Garappolo is ok but seems to float the ball quite a bit on plays down the field. I don't see that working too well in the NFL game...
Also, from what I have seen, Mettenberger seems to move well within the pocket to buy a little time. Not a runner by any means but can adjust to pressure while still looking down the field.
I honestly haven't seen much on Smith and Gilbert but will watch more as the draft approaches.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Decision on Ponder's option may not be easy
Posted by: Matt Vensel Updated: April 22, 2014
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/256111941.html
The Vikings have until May 3 to decide whether to exercise their fifth-year option on Christian Ponder, and while the team’s 2011 top pick has not met expectations and could see the Vikings draft a new quarterback of the future next month, the decision could be tougher than you think.
By picking up Ponder’s option for 2015, the only risk they would be taking is that Ponder could get hurt, as his fifth-year salary would only be guaranteed if he suffered a major injury that lingered into the 2015 league year, which starts in March.
If Ponder is healthy at the end of 2014, they can sever ties without paying him a dime in 2015.
“If he continues to [play below expectations], all you do is after the Super Bowl and before the league year begins, just release him and you’re not on the hook for anything, assuming he is healthy,” said Joel Corry, a former agent who now analyzes the business of football for National Football Post. “It’s low risk from their standpoint. Some teams may not want to take the risk [in that situation], but I don’t think you’re exposing yourself that much if you exercise the option.”
It would be difficult -- at least one would think -- for Ponder to suffer a devastating injury if he was relegated to clipboard duty on Sundays. And if he plays well enough to legitimately take back the starting job, that could be a good thing, right?
The fifth-year options for first-round picks were a compromise between the owners and union when the current collective bargaining agreement was negotiated in 2011. Corry said they are team-friendly in that they are only guaranteed for injury, “so it gives you a window to figure out if you want to keep the guy around if it’s someone you’re not sure about.” Several teams have already exercised options on 2011 first-rounders such as Cam Newton, Patrick Peterson and A.J. Green.
“For there not to be a fifth year, you didn’t play well or you are someone who has gotten into a bunch of off-the-field problems like Aldon Smith, whose option may not be picked up,” Corry said.
Corry said there will be a “feeling-out process” by NFL teams this year, as this is the first time the fifth-year options have come into play. The majority of them will be picked up. However, Ponder’s status appears to be one of the few option decisions that aren’t obvious slam dunks.
In three seasons, Ponder has thrown for 6,436 career yards with 38 touchdowns and 34 interceptions. The Vikings made the playoffs with him under center in 2012 but last season they finished in last place in the division after Ponder faltered and threw more picks than touchdowns.
Durability has also been an issue for Ponder, who has been injured in each of his NFL seasons.
Deciding to roll the dice on Ponder staying healthy will be a ten-million-dollar decision -- well, $9.686 million to be exact. Under the new CBA, players like Ponder who were selected between the 11th and 32nd overall picks would carry a fifth-year option equal to the average of the third through 25th highest-paid players at their position (in this case, in 2014). Quarterback is obviously the NFL’s most lucrative position. For comparison sake, All-Pro defensive end J.J. Watt’s fifth-year option for 2015 will cost just under $7 million.
But general manager Rick Spielman recently suggested that the Vikings haven’t made their minds up, and that makes sense because Ponder will get an opportunity to make a favorable impression on head coach Mike Zimmer and offensive coordinator Norv Turner at the team’s voluntary veteran minicamp next week. A strong week could help convince them to keep him around.
The Vikings have re-signed Matt Cassel and he is penciled in as the starter for now. The team also plans to select a quarterback at some point next month, perhaps even in the first round.
Corry said the best-case scenario is that Ponder rewards them for their faith by winning the starting job and finally becoming the quarterback they thought he would become, just like what Drew Brees did in San Diego a decade ago. The worst-case scenario, he said, would be Ponder emerging like that after the Vikings declined to pick up his option by May 3.
“They really don’t have a whole lot to lose,” Corry said. “Granted, anything can happen. Obviously it’s a violent sport and injuries occur. But the risk for injury really isn’t that great. That being said, if they didn’t exercise the option, I don’t think the fan base is going to be critical because his play hasn’t really warranted that type of salary for the option year.”
Posted by: Matt Vensel Updated: April 22, 2014
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/256111941.html
The Vikings have until May 3 to decide whether to exercise their fifth-year option on Christian Ponder, and while the team’s 2011 top pick has not met expectations and could see the Vikings draft a new quarterback of the future next month, the decision could be tougher than you think.
By picking up Ponder’s option for 2015, the only risk they would be taking is that Ponder could get hurt, as his fifth-year salary would only be guaranteed if he suffered a major injury that lingered into the 2015 league year, which starts in March.
If Ponder is healthy at the end of 2014, they can sever ties without paying him a dime in 2015.
“If he continues to [play below expectations], all you do is after the Super Bowl and before the league year begins, just release him and you’re not on the hook for anything, assuming he is healthy,” said Joel Corry, a former agent who now analyzes the business of football for National Football Post. “It’s low risk from their standpoint. Some teams may not want to take the risk [in that situation], but I don’t think you’re exposing yourself that much if you exercise the option.”
It would be difficult -- at least one would think -- for Ponder to suffer a devastating injury if he was relegated to clipboard duty on Sundays. And if he plays well enough to legitimately take back the starting job, that could be a good thing, right?
The fifth-year options for first-round picks were a compromise between the owners and union when the current collective bargaining agreement was negotiated in 2011. Corry said they are team-friendly in that they are only guaranteed for injury, “so it gives you a window to figure out if you want to keep the guy around if it’s someone you’re not sure about.” Several teams have already exercised options on 2011 first-rounders such as Cam Newton, Patrick Peterson and A.J. Green.
“For there not to be a fifth year, you didn’t play well or you are someone who has gotten into a bunch of off-the-field problems like Aldon Smith, whose option may not be picked up,” Corry said.
Corry said there will be a “feeling-out process” by NFL teams this year, as this is the first time the fifth-year options have come into play. The majority of them will be picked up. However, Ponder’s status appears to be one of the few option decisions that aren’t obvious slam dunks.
In three seasons, Ponder has thrown for 6,436 career yards with 38 touchdowns and 34 interceptions. The Vikings made the playoffs with him under center in 2012 but last season they finished in last place in the division after Ponder faltered and threw more picks than touchdowns.
Durability has also been an issue for Ponder, who has been injured in each of his NFL seasons.
Deciding to roll the dice on Ponder staying healthy will be a ten-million-dollar decision -- well, $9.686 million to be exact. Under the new CBA, players like Ponder who were selected between the 11th and 32nd overall picks would carry a fifth-year option equal to the average of the third through 25th highest-paid players at their position (in this case, in 2014). Quarterback is obviously the NFL’s most lucrative position. For comparison sake, All-Pro defensive end J.J. Watt’s fifth-year option for 2015 will cost just under $7 million.
But general manager Rick Spielman recently suggested that the Vikings haven’t made their minds up, and that makes sense because Ponder will get an opportunity to make a favorable impression on head coach Mike Zimmer and offensive coordinator Norv Turner at the team’s voluntary veteran minicamp next week. A strong week could help convince them to keep him around.
The Vikings have re-signed Matt Cassel and he is penciled in as the starter for now. The team also plans to select a quarterback at some point next month, perhaps even in the first round.
Corry said the best-case scenario is that Ponder rewards them for their faith by winning the starting job and finally becoming the quarterback they thought he would become, just like what Drew Brees did in San Diego a decade ago. The worst-case scenario, he said, would be Ponder emerging like that after the Vikings declined to pick up his option by May 3.
“They really don’t have a whole lot to lose,” Corry said. “Granted, anything can happen. Obviously it’s a violent sport and injuries occur. But the risk for injury really isn’t that great. That being said, if they didn’t exercise the option, I don’t think the fan base is going to be critical because his play hasn’t really warranted that type of salary for the option year.”
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Footballguy
Head-to-head: CBs Gilbert vs. Dennard
By John Holler
VikingUpdate.com
Posted Apr 21, 2014
http://min.scout.com/2/1395711.html
Of all the scenarios that the Vikings will face on draft weekend, one that seems clear is which positions will provide them a full basket of picks and which positions will be picked over of top talent.
There will be at least one offensive tackle off the board by the time the Vikings are scheduled to pick at No. 8. There will be at least one quarterback gone. The odds say that, thanks to Khalil Mack and Sammy Watkins, the Vikings won’t have their choice of linebackers or wide receivers.
But one thing that appears certain is that if the Vikings are looking at taking a cornerback, they will have their choice of the top cornerbacks in the 2014 draft.
Depending on whose draft acumen you give credence to, if the Vikings stay at No. 8 in both the first and second rounds, there won’t be any cornerbacks off the board when they pick in the first round but five or six (with the outside potential for more) by the time they pick in the second round.
Just as having elite quarterbacks has equated with long-term success in the NFL, so has the ability for elite cornerbacks to make the difference in taking away a quarterback’s most game-changing wide receiver option. There are good college cornerbacks and there are great college cornerbacks that enter the draft every year. Locking a great one down is a challenge, but one that often reaps big rewards by either making the play that changes the outcome of a game or getting offensive coordinators intimidated enough to consistently call plays away from a shutdown corner – effectively taking away one-third of the field.
There is a lot of speculation as to how the cornerback crop of 2014 will shake out, but the consensus is that there are two cornerbacks that are viewed as head and shoulders above the rest – Justin Gilbert of Oklahoma State and Darqueze Dennardof Michigan State.
If the Vikings have their finger on the pulse of the draft, they could drop back a few spots with the assurance that the player they want will still be there. If their idea is to grab a cornerback, it would seem the top two choices are Gilbert and Dennard.
The case for Justin Gilbert: Gilbert looks the part. He’s more than 6 feet tall, has 33-inch arms, ran a 4.37 at the Combine and had a 35½-inch vertical jump. He never missed a game, playing 51 games at OSU and starting the last 39 of those. Even though teams quit throwing his way to a large extent as a senior, he picked off seven passes and returned two of them for touchdowns. His straight-line speed creates a lot of jump balls and he is adept at high-pointing the ball. He is an accomplished prospect but needs some polishing. He allows too big a cushion and will need to improve his recognition of route-running to get the extra half-step elite cornerbacks have that he has yet to master. But he is a quiet leader who is very coachable and can be more easily molded into a scheme-specific system than a “diva” type who is looking to make big plays and takes other plays off. Gilbert has the athleticism to be a Pro Bowler in the right system.
The case for Darqueze Dennard: Another durable player, he started all 38 games he played in his final three seasons. In three years as a starter for Michigan State, he had 156 tackles and 10 interceptions. He had his most tackles and most interceptions as a senior, even though teams threw his way much less. He is a natural cover corner who can flip his hips and stick to a receiver to the point that an experienced quarterback will start going to the lower branches of the progression tree because the first option is moot. If the key of film evaluation is a consistent effort, it’s hard to find someone more accomplished than Dennard. Has excellent timing when it comes to innately understanding when the ball is arriving and turning, locating the ball and making a play. At 5-foot-11, he’s a touch undersized, but when it comes to a coverage corner, he is likely the best bet to be alternated with Xavier Rhodes and put on an island with a team’s top receiver, which, in the NFC North, is prevalent.
If the Vikings see something in either Gilbert or Dennard that they believe can be a glove fit in Mike Zimmer’s defensive ideology, they could use the eighth pick to “reach” for a player that, teamed with Rhodes, could create a dominant young tandem to help erase the current QB disparity in the division.
If the decision-makers covet both equally or believe that other top prospects likeTCU’s Jason Verrett, Ohio State’s Bradley Roby or Virginia Tech’s Kyle Fuller will be available later, the team could also look at trading down significantly into the 20s of the draft and have the confidence that a player they covet will still be on the board.
As things stand, if the Vikings have a cornerback they can’t do without by their scouting formula, the good news is that he will be available at No. 8 – bet the mortgage on it. It might even be a mild reach pick. Trading down to a willing partner is a possibility, but, with the unpredictability of the draft, if the Vikings want to go "all in" at cornerback, the options are wide open.
By John Holler
VikingUpdate.com
Posted Apr 21, 2014
http://min.scout.com/2/1395711.html
Of all the scenarios that the Vikings will face on draft weekend, one that seems clear is which positions will provide them a full basket of picks and which positions will be picked over of top talent.
There will be at least one offensive tackle off the board by the time the Vikings are scheduled to pick at No. 8. There will be at least one quarterback gone. The odds say that, thanks to Khalil Mack and Sammy Watkins, the Vikings won’t have their choice of linebackers or wide receivers.
But one thing that appears certain is that if the Vikings are looking at taking a cornerback, they will have their choice of the top cornerbacks in the 2014 draft.
Depending on whose draft acumen you give credence to, if the Vikings stay at No. 8 in both the first and second rounds, there won’t be any cornerbacks off the board when they pick in the first round but five or six (with the outside potential for more) by the time they pick in the second round.
Just as having elite quarterbacks has equated with long-term success in the NFL, so has the ability for elite cornerbacks to make the difference in taking away a quarterback’s most game-changing wide receiver option. There are good college cornerbacks and there are great college cornerbacks that enter the draft every year. Locking a great one down is a challenge, but one that often reaps big rewards by either making the play that changes the outcome of a game or getting offensive coordinators intimidated enough to consistently call plays away from a shutdown corner – effectively taking away one-third of the field.
There is a lot of speculation as to how the cornerback crop of 2014 will shake out, but the consensus is that there are two cornerbacks that are viewed as head and shoulders above the rest – Justin Gilbert of Oklahoma State and Darqueze Dennardof Michigan State.
If the Vikings have their finger on the pulse of the draft, they could drop back a few spots with the assurance that the player they want will still be there. If their idea is to grab a cornerback, it would seem the top two choices are Gilbert and Dennard.
The case for Justin Gilbert: Gilbert looks the part. He’s more than 6 feet tall, has 33-inch arms, ran a 4.37 at the Combine and had a 35½-inch vertical jump. He never missed a game, playing 51 games at OSU and starting the last 39 of those. Even though teams quit throwing his way to a large extent as a senior, he picked off seven passes and returned two of them for touchdowns. His straight-line speed creates a lot of jump balls and he is adept at high-pointing the ball. He is an accomplished prospect but needs some polishing. He allows too big a cushion and will need to improve his recognition of route-running to get the extra half-step elite cornerbacks have that he has yet to master. But he is a quiet leader who is very coachable and can be more easily molded into a scheme-specific system than a “diva” type who is looking to make big plays and takes other plays off. Gilbert has the athleticism to be a Pro Bowler in the right system.
The case for Darqueze Dennard: Another durable player, he started all 38 games he played in his final three seasons. In three years as a starter for Michigan State, he had 156 tackles and 10 interceptions. He had his most tackles and most interceptions as a senior, even though teams threw his way much less. He is a natural cover corner who can flip his hips and stick to a receiver to the point that an experienced quarterback will start going to the lower branches of the progression tree because the first option is moot. If the key of film evaluation is a consistent effort, it’s hard to find someone more accomplished than Dennard. Has excellent timing when it comes to innately understanding when the ball is arriving and turning, locating the ball and making a play. At 5-foot-11, he’s a touch undersized, but when it comes to a coverage corner, he is likely the best bet to be alternated with Xavier Rhodes and put on an island with a team’s top receiver, which, in the NFC North, is prevalent.
If the Vikings see something in either Gilbert or Dennard that they believe can be a glove fit in Mike Zimmer’s defensive ideology, they could use the eighth pick to “reach” for a player that, teamed with Rhodes, could create a dominant young tandem to help erase the current QB disparity in the division.
If the decision-makers covet both equally or believe that other top prospects likeTCU’s Jason Verrett, Ohio State’s Bradley Roby or Virginia Tech’s Kyle Fuller will be available later, the team could also look at trading down significantly into the 20s of the draft and have the confidence that a player they covet will still be on the board.
As things stand, if the Vikings have a cornerback they can’t do without by their scouting formula, the good news is that he will be available at No. 8 – bet the mortgage on it. It might even be a mild reach pick. Trading down to a willing partner is a possibility, but, with the unpredictability of the draft, if the Vikings want to go "all in" at cornerback, the options are wide open.
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Head-to-head: The ‘other’ QB options
By John Holler
VikingUpdate.com
Posted Apr 19, 2014
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that the Vikings are going to take a quarterback at some point during the 2014 draft and the prevailing wisdom is that they’re going to take one of the top-three-ranked quarterbacks – Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel orTeddy Bridgewater – with the eighth pick. Given the steep price that comes with moving up into the top five picks, it’s unlikely general manager Rick Spielman will sign off on trading up.
But, trading down is a definite option. Spielman has expressed a desire to have 10 draft picks on draft weekend – two more than the Vikings currently have. In the event all three of the top quarterbacks are gone, the Vikings could trade back in order to put themselves into a position to take a QB in the middle or late portion of the first round or wait until the eighth pick of the second round.
Putting their fate in the hands of others – sitting and waiting while other teams select players – is always a risky proposition. There would appear to only be one quarterback outside of the Big Three that the Vikings would likely have to trade up from their second round pick to land – Fresno State’s Derek Carr. His stock has been on the rise over the last month and, once thought as a player who would be a premium pick on Day 2 of the draft, he is now being viewed as a player who will likely be taken after the first third of the first round – anywhere from Arizona at No. 20 on down.
Would the Vikings be willing to drop down 10 spots or so to draft Carr and stockpile extra draft picks? If they like what they see in Carr, and there is plenty to like.
The case for Derek Carr: The brother of former No. 1 overall pick David Carr – who was taken by the Houston Texans in 2002 to become the face of the franchise – the younger Carr put up some eye-popping numbers in the high-octane Fresno State offense. In three seasons as a starter, he completed 1,077 of 1,616 passes for 12,731 yards with 113 touchdowns and just 24 interceptions. His yardage and touchdowns went up every year, as did his TD-to-interception ratio (26/9, 37/7, 50/8). He has a rocket for an arm and excellent touch on deep passes. He stands tall in the pocket and reads defenses well to find where pressure is coming from and moving to square his shoulders and deliver the ball, although he didn’t face many elite college teams during his career. As with many shotgun quarterbacks, scouts will question his ability to make the transition to a pro-style offense, but when you have a gun like Carr possesses, teams fall in love with upside – which is why he has gone from a second-round prospect to one who likely will go in the final dozen or so picks of the first round.
If the Vikings don’t make a move on Carr, then they will be dealing with the second tier of quarterbacks, namely Jimmy Garoppolo of Eastern Illinois, Zach Mettenberger of LSU and A.J. McCarron of Alabama. All three are different style quarterbacks, but all that will likely be available when the second round of the draft begins.
The case for Jimmy Garoppolo: The 2013 Walter Payton Award winner, the Heisman Trophy for FCS players, after throwing for more than 5,000 yards and 53 touchdowns, he has drawn a lot of comparisons to EIU alum Tony Romo. Neither is a physical specimen but have good football smarts and a strong arm to throw balls into a tight window. Garoppolo has a natural feel in the pocket and has a quick release to help avoid sacks. His learning curve will be big, but, as has been discussed here before, the Vikings are likely to start the season with Matt Cassel as their starter – you don’t pay a guy $5 million a year to sit and watch or be a sideline tutor. Garoppolo is a gun-slinger who will throw the risky pass, but his upside is pronounced and the buzz surrounding him is getting stronger all the time.
The case for Zach Mettenberger: Originally, he was supposed to compete withAaron Murray for the starting job at Georgia but was dismissed from the team for lying to head coach Mark Richt after being arrested on charges of sexual battery and underage drinking. He went to Butler (Kan.) Community College before ending up at LSU. A two-year starter at LSU, he is a pocket passer who threw for 5,700 yards with 34 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. However, his college career ended in November against Arkansas when he suffered a torn left ACL that kept him from working out at the NFL Scouting Combine or being able to perform fully in individual workouts. He has a gun for an arm and is a natural pocket passer whose strengths translate well to the NFL. He has prototypical size and stands tall in the pocket to deliver passes knowing he’s going to take a big hit. He has a learning curve due to his relative inexperience and his history (both injury and off-the-field) will need to be monitored and factored in. But he is gaining momentum based on his NFL-ready skill set and could be a sleeper to be a high second-round pick.
The case for AJ McCarron: A three-year starter for perennial powerhouse Alabama, he consistently faced the best defenses college football had to offer and posted a 36-4 career record. He finished his career completing 67 percent of his passes for more than 9,000 yards with 77 touchdowns and just 15 interceptions. He is a precision passer who throws darts and protects the ball well. He is very intelligent and reads defenses well. Considering that every Alabama opponent circled the date they played the Crimson Tide, few quarterbacks have had more pressure on them than McCarron did. He stood up to the pressure and became a true leader, winning 90 percent of his career starts. The biggest question mark is his arm strength. He doesn’t have an elite arm or throw with outstanding velocity, which is the primary reason many believe he will be on the board in the middle to end of the second round unless somebody falls in love with him. He is the dark horse pick here because he has a lot of similarities in his skill set to Christian Ponder and that hasn’t worked out for the Vikings.
Everyone seems to be of the impression that the Vikings are going to select a quarterback at No. 8. But, if they’re gone or the Vikings go in a different direction at No. 8 or they trade down to acquire more picks, the Plan B at quarterback could include four players that, if given the chance, could be the QB of the future for the Vikings.
By John Holler
VikingUpdate.com
Posted Apr 19, 2014
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that the Vikings are going to take a quarterback at some point during the 2014 draft and the prevailing wisdom is that they’re going to take one of the top-three-ranked quarterbacks – Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel orTeddy Bridgewater – with the eighth pick. Given the steep price that comes with moving up into the top five picks, it’s unlikely general manager Rick Spielman will sign off on trading up.
But, trading down is a definite option. Spielman has expressed a desire to have 10 draft picks on draft weekend – two more than the Vikings currently have. In the event all three of the top quarterbacks are gone, the Vikings could trade back in order to put themselves into a position to take a QB in the middle or late portion of the first round or wait until the eighth pick of the second round.
Putting their fate in the hands of others – sitting and waiting while other teams select players – is always a risky proposition. There would appear to only be one quarterback outside of the Big Three that the Vikings would likely have to trade up from their second round pick to land – Fresno State’s Derek Carr. His stock has been on the rise over the last month and, once thought as a player who would be a premium pick on Day 2 of the draft, he is now being viewed as a player who will likely be taken after the first third of the first round – anywhere from Arizona at No. 20 on down.
Would the Vikings be willing to drop down 10 spots or so to draft Carr and stockpile extra draft picks? If they like what they see in Carr, and there is plenty to like.
The case for Derek Carr: The brother of former No. 1 overall pick David Carr – who was taken by the Houston Texans in 2002 to become the face of the franchise – the younger Carr put up some eye-popping numbers in the high-octane Fresno State offense. In three seasons as a starter, he completed 1,077 of 1,616 passes for 12,731 yards with 113 touchdowns and just 24 interceptions. His yardage and touchdowns went up every year, as did his TD-to-interception ratio (26/9, 37/7, 50/8). He has a rocket for an arm and excellent touch on deep passes. He stands tall in the pocket and reads defenses well to find where pressure is coming from and moving to square his shoulders and deliver the ball, although he didn’t face many elite college teams during his career. As with many shotgun quarterbacks, scouts will question his ability to make the transition to a pro-style offense, but when you have a gun like Carr possesses, teams fall in love with upside – which is why he has gone from a second-round prospect to one who likely will go in the final dozen or so picks of the first round.
If the Vikings don’t make a move on Carr, then they will be dealing with the second tier of quarterbacks, namely Jimmy Garoppolo of Eastern Illinois, Zach Mettenberger of LSU and A.J. McCarron of Alabama. All three are different style quarterbacks, but all that will likely be available when the second round of the draft begins.
The case for Jimmy Garoppolo: The 2013 Walter Payton Award winner, the Heisman Trophy for FCS players, after throwing for more than 5,000 yards and 53 touchdowns, he has drawn a lot of comparisons to EIU alum Tony Romo. Neither is a physical specimen but have good football smarts and a strong arm to throw balls into a tight window. Garoppolo has a natural feel in the pocket and has a quick release to help avoid sacks. His learning curve will be big, but, as has been discussed here before, the Vikings are likely to start the season with Matt Cassel as their starter – you don’t pay a guy $5 million a year to sit and watch or be a sideline tutor. Garoppolo is a gun-slinger who will throw the risky pass, but his upside is pronounced and the buzz surrounding him is getting stronger all the time.
The case for Zach Mettenberger: Originally, he was supposed to compete withAaron Murray for the starting job at Georgia but was dismissed from the team for lying to head coach Mark Richt after being arrested on charges of sexual battery and underage drinking. He went to Butler (Kan.) Community College before ending up at LSU. A two-year starter at LSU, he is a pocket passer who threw for 5,700 yards with 34 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. However, his college career ended in November against Arkansas when he suffered a torn left ACL that kept him from working out at the NFL Scouting Combine or being able to perform fully in individual workouts. He has a gun for an arm and is a natural pocket passer whose strengths translate well to the NFL. He has prototypical size and stands tall in the pocket to deliver passes knowing he’s going to take a big hit. He has a learning curve due to his relative inexperience and his history (both injury and off-the-field) will need to be monitored and factored in. But he is gaining momentum based on his NFL-ready skill set and could be a sleeper to be a high second-round pick.
The case for AJ McCarron: A three-year starter for perennial powerhouse Alabama, he consistently faced the best defenses college football had to offer and posted a 36-4 career record. He finished his career completing 67 percent of his passes for more than 9,000 yards with 77 touchdowns and just 15 interceptions. He is a precision passer who throws darts and protects the ball well. He is very intelligent and reads defenses well. Considering that every Alabama opponent circled the date they played the Crimson Tide, few quarterbacks have had more pressure on them than McCarron did. He stood up to the pressure and became a true leader, winning 90 percent of his career starts. The biggest question mark is his arm strength. He doesn’t have an elite arm or throw with outstanding velocity, which is the primary reason many believe he will be on the board in the middle to end of the second round unless somebody falls in love with him. He is the dark horse pick here because he has a lot of similarities in his skill set to Christian Ponder and that hasn’t worked out for the Vikings.
Everyone seems to be of the impression that the Vikings are going to select a quarterback at No. 8. But, if they’re gone or the Vikings go in a different direction at No. 8 or they trade down to acquire more picks, the Plan B at quarterback could include four players that, if given the chance, could be the QB of the future for the Vikings.
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Footballguy
By Dave-Te' Thomas
NFL Draft Report
Posted Apr 21, 2014 http://min.scout.com/2/1396031.html
Terrence Brooks
Free Safety
Florida State University Seminoles #31
5:10.7-198
Dunnellon, Florida
Dunnellon High School
OVERVIEW
While all of the Seminoles units played a big part in the team going undefeated and capturing the national championship, the coaching staff will tell all that the reason for the defense’s dominance was the fact that the young starters responded well to the mentoring offered by Brooks and fellow defensive back Lamarcus Joyner.
The free safety packed a “punch” when working inside the box, making 33 of his 56 tackles in run support last season, limiting those ball carriers to 67 yards. He also provided the team with a “sheriff” in the deep area of the field, as just 17-of-52 passes targeted into his area (32.69%) were completed.
That production level helped Brooks play a vital role for an FSU defense that led the nation in scoring defense (12.1), pass defense (156.6) and interceptions (26), while ranking third in total defense (281.4). Important to that success was the safety’s ability to wreak havoc in the backfield as a blitzer, as his eight tackles behind the line of scrimmage not only ranked fourth on the team overall, but ranked second among all the defensive backs in the Atlantic Coast Conference ranks.
Brooks was a two-way standout at Dunnellon High School, where the Florida prospect rushed for 500 yards and registered 53 tackles, six interceptions and three pass breakups during his junior season. He split his time between receiver and cornerback as a senior, earning All-County first-team honors on defense while receiving offensive honorable mention.
Scout.com considered him to be the 51st-best cornerback nationally. ESPN placed him 21st among the cornerbacks in the prep ranks. A member of the Florida Times-Union Super 75 squad, that news service rated Brooks the seventh-best cornerback in the state. He concluded his career after playing in the Florida Athletic Coaches Association North-South All-Star game.
Brooks enrolled at Florida State, choosing the school over offers from Miami, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Purdue, Rutgers, South Florida and Central Florida. Playing mostly on special teams as a freshman, he managed just two solo tackles. It was much of the same the following year, as Brooks was listed second on the depth chart at free safety, posting 17 tackles with five pass deflections through 11 games on the 2011 schedule.
The coaches wanted to get their best athletes on the field in 2012 and Lamarcus Joyner was shifted to cornerback, allowing Brooks the opportunity to seize the free safety position as a junior. He responded with 51 tackles while starting all 14 games. He deflected four passes and picked off two others for the Seminoles in 2012.
Named All-American first-team by CBS Sports, Brooks was also selected All-Atlantic Coast Conference first-team as a senior. He finished fifth on the team with a career-high 56 tackles in 2013, intercepting two passes while breaking up five other throws. He also rerouted or jammed his coverage assignments away from 22 other pass attempts. Two of his eight tackles behind the line of scrimmage caused fumbles, recovering one of those turnovers to set up an FSU touchdown drive.
CAREER NOTES
Brooks started his last 27 games — 14 at free safety and 13 at strong safety - appearing in a total of forty-eight contests, as he recorded 126 tackles (88 solos) with a 13-yard sack and 9.5 stops for losses of 36 yards…Intercepted five passes and deflected 15 others, as he also caused three fumbles and recovered another.
NFL Draft Report
Posted Apr 21, 2014 http://min.scout.com/2/1396031.html
Terrence Brooks
Free Safety
Florida State University Seminoles #31
5:10.7-198
Dunnellon, Florida
Dunnellon High School
OVERVIEW
While all of the Seminoles units played a big part in the team going undefeated and capturing the national championship, the coaching staff will tell all that the reason for the defense’s dominance was the fact that the young starters responded well to the mentoring offered by Brooks and fellow defensive back Lamarcus Joyner.
The free safety packed a “punch” when working inside the box, making 33 of his 56 tackles in run support last season, limiting those ball carriers to 67 yards. He also provided the team with a “sheriff” in the deep area of the field, as just 17-of-52 passes targeted into his area (32.69%) were completed.
That production level helped Brooks play a vital role for an FSU defense that led the nation in scoring defense (12.1), pass defense (156.6) and interceptions (26), while ranking third in total defense (281.4). Important to that success was the safety’s ability to wreak havoc in the backfield as a blitzer, as his eight tackles behind the line of scrimmage not only ranked fourth on the team overall, but ranked second among all the defensive backs in the Atlantic Coast Conference ranks.
Brooks was a two-way standout at Dunnellon High School, where the Florida prospect rushed for 500 yards and registered 53 tackles, six interceptions and three pass breakups during his junior season. He split his time between receiver and cornerback as a senior, earning All-County first-team honors on defense while receiving offensive honorable mention.
Scout.com considered him to be the 51st-best cornerback nationally. ESPN placed him 21st among the cornerbacks in the prep ranks. A member of the Florida Times-Union Super 75 squad, that news service rated Brooks the seventh-best cornerback in the state. He concluded his career after playing in the Florida Athletic Coaches Association North-South All-Star game.
Brooks enrolled at Florida State, choosing the school over offers from Miami, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Purdue, Rutgers, South Florida and Central Florida. Playing mostly on special teams as a freshman, he managed just two solo tackles. It was much of the same the following year, as Brooks was listed second on the depth chart at free safety, posting 17 tackles with five pass deflections through 11 games on the 2011 schedule.
The coaches wanted to get their best athletes on the field in 2012 and Lamarcus Joyner was shifted to cornerback, allowing Brooks the opportunity to seize the free safety position as a junior. He responded with 51 tackles while starting all 14 games. He deflected four passes and picked off two others for the Seminoles in 2012.
Named All-American first-team by CBS Sports, Brooks was also selected All-Atlantic Coast Conference first-team as a senior. He finished fifth on the team with a career-high 56 tackles in 2013, intercepting two passes while breaking up five other throws. He also rerouted or jammed his coverage assignments away from 22 other pass attempts. Two of his eight tackles behind the line of scrimmage caused fumbles, recovering one of those turnovers to set up an FSU touchdown drive.
CAREER NOTES
Brooks started his last 27 games — 14 at free safety and 13 at strong safety - appearing in a total of forty-eight contests, as he recorded 126 tackles (88 solos) with a 13-yard sack and 9.5 stops for losses of 36 yards…Intercepted five passes and deflected 15 others, as he also caused three fumbles and recovered another.
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
TommyKramer
Footballguy
Aaron Donald should be our pick. He wasn't just a "freak athlete", he was in the discussion because of his impressive production on the field.
Yeah, he's under 300...but he plays that too his advantage and the good will far outweigh the bad.
The kicker is that we might even be able to trade down a bit and still get him...just can't get greedy. He'll be gone before most expect.
Yeah, he's under 300...but he plays that too his advantage and the good will far outweigh the bad.
The kicker is that we might even be able to trade down a bit and still get him...just can't get greedy. He'll be gone before most expect.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Evan Silva Thinks the Vikings Should Draft Aaron Donald
BY DAN ZINSKI -
APR 19TH, 2014 http://thevikingage.com/2014/04/19/evan-silva-thinks-vikings-draft-aaron-donald/
Rotoworld’s Evan Silva has chimed in with a new two round mock, and he has a little bit of an off-the-wall pick for the Vikings at #8.
Aaron Donald? Really Silva?
Here’s what Silva says about this seemingly weird selection:
“Mike Zimmer’s new Geno Atkins. Although this match may seem surprising because it probably doesn’t appear often in other mock drafts, we don’t know how Minnesota’s new defensive-minded coach feels about Sharrif Floyd, and Zimmer’s units have always functioned at their maximum with deep rotations of explosive pass rushers. Donald is the type of all-out-effort player Zimmer loves. The Vikings were very involved on Henry Melton during free agency — even after signing Linval Joseph — strongly suggesting they believe the interior defensive line remains a weakness.”
I confess, when I saw that the Vikings were after Melton, I had the same thought. That Mike Zimmer might not like Sharrif Floyd.
And knowing how important that 3-tech position is to Zimmer’s defense, and how huge Geno Atkins became working within that defense, it’s natural to look at a player like Donald and see the fit.
I suppose if Mike Zimmer looks at Donald and sees Geno Atkins, you have to seriously consider taking him even if it means leaving the linebacker position unaddressed until later in the draft.
There’s also the BPA argument. It’s possible that Donald will be the BPA at #8, and the same logic applies to him that applies to Sammy Watkins.
If he’s there and you think he’s really that good, you have to take him, regardless of your supposed “needs.”
Hopefully, teams behind the Vikings who like Aaron Donald are listening to these arguments. I’m thinking specifically of the Bears.
Someone email Silva’s mock to the Bears along with Rick Spielman’s phone number, just in case they lost it.
Maybe I’m just overly captivated by certain linebacker and quarterback possibilities, but I would be a tad disappointed if the Vikings did end up taking Donald at 8. He looks like a good player and all, but dang, going DT in the first a year after going DT in the first? Even if Floyd isn’t a good fit for Zimmer?
Isn’t there a good DT in the third or fourth who could develop into Geno Atkins? Atkins himself wasn’t taken until the fourth round.
This is why the trade down is such a compelling option for the Vikings. You can move back several spots and still get an Aaron Donald or a C.J. Mosley or a Ha Ha Clinton-Dix or a Justin Gilbert.
Any of those guys would instantly make the Vikings a more talented defense. But I’m not sure I would be totally happy taking any one of them at 8.
Charley Walters: Vikings' likely aim at top of draft is trade or defenseBy Charley Walterscwalters@pioneerpress.com
mailto:cwalters@pioneerpress.com?subject=TwinCities.com:
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_25600805/charley-walters-vikings-likely-aim-at-top-draft
With the NFL draft just 18 days away, it now looks like the Vikings will do one of two things with their No. 8 overall pick: Trade down to accumulate more picks or take the best defensive player available. No quarterback.
The defensive player would be expected to be either a defensive lineman -- Aaron Donald from Pittsburgh is a possibility -- or free safety Hasean Clinton-Dix from Alabama. Using No. 8 on a defensive player would mean the Vikings would expect that player to start the first game of next season.
It's unclear how Mike Zimmer, the Vikings' new defense-minded coach, regards defensive tackleSharrif Floyd, whom the Vikings drafted with their No. 23 pick last year.
There seems virtually no chance that the Vikings will take a quarterback in the first round, although they are expected to draft one to develop in the second or third round.
The value in taking a quarterback, considering what's expected to be available, simply isn't there at No. 8. That's to say there's no QB who would ensure success, for instance, as with Andrew Luck when he was chosen No. 1 overall by Indianapolis two years ago.
The Vikings have so many defensive needs that they cannot afford to pick a QB. Although QBsJohnny Manziel, Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater all have assets, they also have flaws.
Remember, the Vikings misfired when choosing QBChristian Ponder with the No. 12 overall pick in the 2011 draft. General manager Rick Spielmancan't afford to miss on a quarterback again, especially with a No. 8 pick.
Moving down in the draft would allow the Vikings, who currently have 10 picks, to gain more picks this year and maybe even a first-round pick next year.
At some point in this year's draft, the Vikings are expected to take a running back who excels at pass protection and would replace departed Toby Gerhart.
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I think that Aaron Donald is a great player and a player that teams might consider trading up to pick 8 for. If the Vikings used that pick on Donald the defense would be much improved but would still lack quality linebackers. I think Shazier is comparable in talent to Donald at a position of greater need to the Vikings.
BY DAN ZINSKI -
APR 19TH, 2014 http://thevikingage.com/2014/04/19/evan-silva-thinks-vikings-draft-aaron-donald/
Rotoworld’s Evan Silva has chimed in with a new two round mock, and he has a little bit of an off-the-wall pick for the Vikings at #8.
Aaron Donald? Really Silva?
Here’s what Silva says about this seemingly weird selection:
“Mike Zimmer’s new Geno Atkins. Although this match may seem surprising because it probably doesn’t appear often in other mock drafts, we don’t know how Minnesota’s new defensive-minded coach feels about Sharrif Floyd, and Zimmer’s units have always functioned at their maximum with deep rotations of explosive pass rushers. Donald is the type of all-out-effort player Zimmer loves. The Vikings were very involved on Henry Melton during free agency — even after signing Linval Joseph — strongly suggesting they believe the interior defensive line remains a weakness.”
I confess, when I saw that the Vikings were after Melton, I had the same thought. That Mike Zimmer might not like Sharrif Floyd.
And knowing how important that 3-tech position is to Zimmer’s defense, and how huge Geno Atkins became working within that defense, it’s natural to look at a player like Donald and see the fit.
I suppose if Mike Zimmer looks at Donald and sees Geno Atkins, you have to seriously consider taking him even if it means leaving the linebacker position unaddressed until later in the draft.
There’s also the BPA argument. It’s possible that Donald will be the BPA at #8, and the same logic applies to him that applies to Sammy Watkins.
If he’s there and you think he’s really that good, you have to take him, regardless of your supposed “needs.”
Hopefully, teams behind the Vikings who like Aaron Donald are listening to these arguments. I’m thinking specifically of the Bears.
Someone email Silva’s mock to the Bears along with Rick Spielman’s phone number, just in case they lost it.
Maybe I’m just overly captivated by certain linebacker and quarterback possibilities, but I would be a tad disappointed if the Vikings did end up taking Donald at 8. He looks like a good player and all, but dang, going DT in the first a year after going DT in the first? Even if Floyd isn’t a good fit for Zimmer?
Isn’t there a good DT in the third or fourth who could develop into Geno Atkins? Atkins himself wasn’t taken until the fourth round.
This is why the trade down is such a compelling option for the Vikings. You can move back several spots and still get an Aaron Donald or a C.J. Mosley or a Ha Ha Clinton-Dix or a Justin Gilbert.
Any of those guys would instantly make the Vikings a more talented defense. But I’m not sure I would be totally happy taking any one of them at 8.
Charley Walters: Vikings' likely aim at top of draft is trade or defenseBy Charley Walterscwalters@pioneerpress.com
mailto:cwalters@pioneerpress.com?subject=TwinCities.com:
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_25600805/charley-walters-vikings-likely-aim-at-top-draft
With the NFL draft just 18 days away, it now looks like the Vikings will do one of two things with their No. 8 overall pick: Trade down to accumulate more picks or take the best defensive player available. No quarterback.
The defensive player would be expected to be either a defensive lineman -- Aaron Donald from Pittsburgh is a possibility -- or free safety Hasean Clinton-Dix from Alabama. Using No. 8 on a defensive player would mean the Vikings would expect that player to start the first game of next season.
It's unclear how Mike Zimmer, the Vikings' new defense-minded coach, regards defensive tackleSharrif Floyd, whom the Vikings drafted with their No. 23 pick last year.
There seems virtually no chance that the Vikings will take a quarterback in the first round, although they are expected to draft one to develop in the second or third round.
The value in taking a quarterback, considering what's expected to be available, simply isn't there at No. 8. That's to say there's no QB who would ensure success, for instance, as with Andrew Luck when he was chosen No. 1 overall by Indianapolis two years ago.
The Vikings have so many defensive needs that they cannot afford to pick a QB. Although QBsJohnny Manziel, Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater all have assets, they also have flaws.
Remember, the Vikings misfired when choosing QBChristian Ponder with the No. 12 overall pick in the 2011 draft. General manager Rick Spielmancan't afford to miss on a quarterback again, especially with a No. 8 pick.
Moving down in the draft would allow the Vikings, who currently have 10 picks, to gain more picks this year and maybe even a first-round pick next year.
At some point in this year's draft, the Vikings are expected to take a running back who excels at pass protection and would replace departed Toby Gerhart.
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I think that Aaron Donald is a great player and a player that teams might consider trading up to pick 8 for. If the Vikings used that pick on Donald the defense would be much improved but would still lack quality linebackers. I think Shazier is comparable in talent to Donald at a position of greater need to the Vikings.
JMon348
Footballguy
You left off:
Who else is on this train? I can't remember a DT flashing this much.
TommyKramer
Footballguy
Aaron Donald should be our pick. He wasn't just a "freak athlete", he was in the discussion because of his impressive production on the field.
Yeah, he's under 300...but he plays that too his advantage and the good will far outweigh the bad.
The kicker is that we might even be able to trade down a bit and still get him...just can't get greedy. He'll be gone before most expect.
Yeah, he's under 300...but he plays that too his advantage and the good will far outweigh the bad.
The kicker is that we might even be able to trade down a bit and still get him...just can't get greedy. He'll be gone before most expect.
I hope the Vikings brass will get back to basics related to their roster:
1. Draft for talent/potential (BPA).
2. Use free agency and trades for need.
Drafting for need is a stupid, short-sighted strategy to begin with...since injuries, suspensions, expiring contracts, new coaches/schemes, et al mean that today's needs or positions of strength will be different this time next year. Just get as much talent/potential on the 53-man roster as is absolutely possible while fielding the most talented, competitive eleven on offense, defense, and special teams as we can. Then if we end up having 4 good RBs when we only need 3, or ???, make a deal with a team who can spare something that will make one of our 53 other roster spots better (at a position where we aren't as strong).
I don't care if the Vikings go PK at 1.08 and DT/DT/DT in rounds 2-3! LOL, okay, I'd care (a lot). But if it turns out the Vikings got the very-best talent on the board when they picked? Fine. We're not sniffing an NFC Championship Game or Super Bowl in 2014-2015 anyway...so if you start adding Pro Bowlers at multiple spots in that "starting 11" (offense, defense, special teams), it won't be more than 2-3 seasons before we ARE there. Frequently. But if we keep drafting "best QB available" because we need a QB, or "best LB available" because we need a LB, my daughters might be out of college the next time the team is playing a meaningful game in Jan/Feb. And I might be dead.
1. Draft for talent/potential (BPA).
2. Use free agency and trades for need.
Drafting for need is a stupid, short-sighted strategy to begin with...since injuries, suspensions, expiring contracts, new coaches/schemes, et al mean that today's needs or positions of strength will be different this time next year. Just get as much talent/potential on the 53-man roster as is absolutely possible while fielding the most talented, competitive eleven on offense, defense, and special teams as we can. Then if we end up having 4 good RBs when we only need 3, or ???, make a deal with a team who can spare something that will make one of our 53 other roster spots better (at a position where we aren't as strong).
I don't care if the Vikings go PK at 1.08 and DT/DT/DT in rounds 2-3! LOL, okay, I'd care (a lot). But if it turns out the Vikings got the very-best talent on the board when they picked? Fine. We're not sniffing an NFC Championship Game or Super Bowl in 2014-2015 anyway...so if you start adding Pro Bowlers at multiple spots in that "starting 11" (offense, defense, special teams), it won't be more than 2-3 seasons before we ARE there. Frequently. But if we keep drafting "best QB available" because we need a QB, or "best LB available" because we need a LB, my daughters might be out of college the next time the team is playing a meaningful game in Jan/Feb. And I might be dead.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I hear what you are saying datonn the Vikings have not made any significant investment at the LB position since they drafted Greenway who is no longer the player he once was.
When best player available meets the teams greatest need that becomes the best pick with the most overall impact to the team. By trading down into the teens the Vikings can make those 2 things meet.
The Vikings need 2 LB who can play 3 downs and cover in nickle and other sub-packages. Greenway does not qualify, he is terrible in coverage.
When best player available meets the teams greatest need that becomes the best pick with the most overall impact to the team. By trading down into the teens the Vikings can make those 2 things meet.
The Vikings need 2 LB who can play 3 downs and cover in nickle and other sub-packages. Greenway does not qualify, he is terrible in coverage.
^ Agreed Biabreakable...and let's just say that I'm hoping the Vikings can move down into the 1.teens and that LB is the BPA when they are on the clock (with an extra day two pick and day three pick(s) for their troubles). But if we're there at 1.08 and we've got no trade? If WR Watkins, or WR Evans, or one of the OTs is the true BPA? Take them. Jennings isn't getting any younger, Simpson hasn't yet figured it out, and another super-talented BIG to help Peterson and/or the "bridge" QB would help too. Even if said OT had to play out of position for a season or two.
If QB is the BPA at 1.08 (or if we can trade down)? Take him. If DT Donald, or one of the LBs is BPA? Take him. Just don't "force" the selection of a player we think we need to fill out the 2014 line-up. As by the time 2015 comes around, we'll have 2-3 new holes or lacks of depth that we don't even currently foresee.
If QB is the BPA at 1.08 (or if we can trade down)? Take him. If DT Donald, or one of the LBs is BPA? Take him. Just don't "force" the selection of a player we think we need to fill out the 2014 line-up. As by the time 2015 comes around, we'll have 2-3 new holes or lacks of depth that we don't even currently foresee.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I hear you and I think Spielman has done a pretty good job of drafting BPA (other than the Ponder pick) while also addressing needs.
Spielman and Studwell may think they can find a diamond in the rough LB such as Mauti who will pan out for a lesser investment, but I think Shazier is a very special talent on par with Aaron Donald and well worth a 1st round pick on his talent alone. That he fits what the Vikings most need would cause me to draft him over Donald because I think they are similar top talents available at their respective positions.
If Evans or Watkins do fall to pick 8 I think it will be even easier for the Vikings to trade down. Donald carries that type of value that may cause teams to want to move up for him also. So I think the Vikings are in a good position to find a trade partner and move down.
Spielman and Studwell may think they can find a diamond in the rough LB such as Mauti who will pan out for a lesser investment, but I think Shazier is a very special talent on par with Aaron Donald and well worth a 1st round pick on his talent alone. That he fits what the Vikings most need would cause me to draft him over Donald because I think they are similar top talents available at their respective positions.
If Evans or Watkins do fall to pick 8 I think it will be even easier for the Vikings to trade down. Donald carries that type of value that may cause teams to want to move up for him also. So I think the Vikings are in a good position to find a trade partner and move down.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Teams nowadays, draft the best available player that fit a need, period. It's that simple.
Our Vikings need a QB so we will draft one, maybe in the first or maybe in the second round. Same thing goes for us needing LB'er help, CB, maybe a S to play besides Harrison, OG and a 3rd down RB. Most likely we will get these players during the draft.
Once the draft is down to the last 1-2 rounds, then and usually then would the Vikings and other teams grab the best player available, no matter of the position.
Our Vikings need a QB so we will draft one, maybe in the first or maybe in the second round. Same thing goes for us needing LB'er help, CB, maybe a S to play besides Harrison, OG and a 3rd down RB. Most likely we will get these players during the draft.
Once the draft is down to the last 1-2 rounds, then and usually then would the Vikings and other teams grab the best player available, no matter of the position.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I wonder if the drop in talent at the linebacker position is as steep as the scouts are projecting. The Vikings hypothetically could a good OLB like Carl Bradford or a Christian Kirksey in the late 3rd or 4th round. ILB Preston Brown could be a steal in the 5th round. I seen enough 1st round linebackers bust, like Rolando McClain and Aaron Curry, to be wary of the position.
Zimmer might be able to see something in these later round guys. He got full value out of Vontaze Burfict.
Zimmer might be able to see something in these later round guys. He got full value out of Vontaze Burfict.
I think Spielman's been very good for the most part, with one GLARING exception (Ponder). Between Spielman, Studwell, Zimmer, and Turner, I trust them to hit a lot more than they miss. I just hope I'm not proven wrong in having that trust in them 3-4 years from now.
It's nice...actually having hope again. I think the Cover-Two Defense is just positive spin for a "Bend AND Break" defense, and I never thought Frazier should be the HC...from the very beginning, when he was interim head coach. Nice guy (GREAT guy), and a players coach. But it seemed as though nice = soft, in this particular case. And soft doesn't get it done in the NFL. Peterson got him to the playoffs in one of the best seasons for a RB of all-time! But other than that? What did Frazier really accomplish in Minnesota? Let Spielman and Studwell do their thing. Let Zimmer do his thing. And let Turner get the most out of his QBs and other offensive talent, and let's play.
It's nice...actually having hope again. I think the Cover-Two Defense is just positive spin for a "Bend AND Break" defense, and I never thought Frazier should be the HC...from the very beginning, when he was interim head coach. Nice guy (GREAT guy), and a players coach. But it seemed as though nice = soft, in this particular case. And soft doesn't get it done in the NFL. Peterson got him to the playoffs in one of the best seasons for a RB of all-time! But other than that? What did Frazier really accomplish in Minnesota? Let Spielman and Studwell do their thing. Let Zimmer do his thing. And let Turner get the most out of his QBs and other offensive talent, and let's play.
jestertj
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You make a good point here about some of the risk of using a high pick at the LB position that this does not always pan out. However you look at Shazier's character and background, he does not seem like a guy I am worried about struggling at the next level. But maybe there is some dirt on him I do not know?
Burfict was considered one of the top LB as a prospect but he dropped out of the draft due to character concerns, not because he couldn't play. This has been something Zimmer has been able to do with multiple players on defense such as Pacman Jones and a few others. So I think that is great, the Vikings can consider taking on some of these risks as Zimmer has been able to get these players focused and to keep their noses clean for the most part.
What I do not really like about the idea of trusting Zimmer to develop a diamond in the rough LB is that the Vikings already have players like this on their roster in Mauti, Cole, Hodges. So drafting another 3rd day LB does not seem like an upgrade at the position to me when the roster is already full of these project type LB.
Shazier brings elite speed to the position that you just will not be able to match with a lesser pick investment imo.
Now looking at the Bengals recent draft history you will see that Zimmer was able to form a very good defense mostly by using players who were not 1st round picks, instead the Bengals have loaded up on offense with their 1st round picks for the most part and Zimmer has been able to get good performance out of players taken later in the draft, particularly at LB. So I think this is part of why Zimmer was brought in by Spielman and that may in fact be the front offices plan as demonstrated by the late picks of Mauti, Cole, Hodges.
Shazier has the closing speed that I just don't think you can find with a later draft pick. Teams have been doing a lot of 3 step drops to negate the Vikings pass rush. The best way to stop the 3 step drop short passing game is by having a LB who can jump routes like this or make receivers pay for those catches while the corners play press. RIght now teams will exploit the Vikings short and over the middle or in the seams because the linebacker coverage is so poor.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Another reason Burfict went undrafted is he had the worst combine of any linebacker in his draft class. He ran 5.09 40 and his jumps were just terrible. Linebackers can get away with not having great speed if they have good agility. I have read that the 60 yard shuttle is a better indication of their sideline to sideline speed. It going to be interesting to see where Skov gets drafted after having such a disappointing 40 time.
I not saying that Shazier will not be an outstanding linebacker. I just don't know if it is wise to invest heavily in the position when there are quite a few good linebackers emerging from the later rounds.
I not saying that Shazier will not be an outstanding linebacker. I just don't know if it is wise to invest heavily in the position when there are quite a few good linebackers emerging from the later rounds.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Who are some of the other LB you like?
I came across these salary cap articles for future reference-
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
My wishlist:
0. Khalil Mack - simply won't be available at #8.
1. Johnny Manziel - yep, I'm still driving that bandwagon.
2.. CJ Mosley
3. Mike Evans (can you imagine him lined up opposite CP for the next 5 years?)
0. Khalil Mack - simply won't be available at #8.
1. Johnny Manziel - yep, I'm still driving that bandwagon.
2.. CJ Mosley
3. Mike Evans (can you imagine him lined up opposite CP for the next 5 years?)
jhexel
Footballguy
My wishlist:
0. Khalil Mack - simply won't be available at #8.
1. Johnny Manziel - yep, I'm still driving that bandwagon.
2.. CJ Mosley
3. Mike Evans (can you imagine him lined up opposite CP for the next 5 years?)
PA on KFAN told Florio earlier this week that they'd jump all over Evans at #8 if he's there...take it for what it's worth as he's obviously the biggest Purple-homer there is but he's fairly plugged in as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
A couple of coverage LB who could be considered later in the draft are Telvin Smith of Florida State and Kevin Pierre-Lewis of Boston College.
Both could be options as late as round 4 and would play in subpackages.
It is certainly a step down from a 3 down player like Shazier or Mosley but they could help.
Both could be options as late as round 4 and would play in subpackages.
It is certainly a step down from a 3 down player like Shazier or Mosley but they could help.
snogger
Footballguy
My wishlist:
0. Khalil Mack - simply won't be available at #8.
1. Johnny Manziel - yep, I'm still driving that bandwagon.
2.. CJ Mosley
3. Mike Evans (can you imagine him lined up opposite CP for the next 5 years?)
He might only last 2 or 3 seasons if he plays all out like he did in college, but those would be 2 or 3
seasons!!!
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Anthony Barr at 8 would be a very good pick IMO. I think we tend to overlook the obvious sometimes. He reminds me of Jason Taylor.
Add in the fact that this is not a good draft for DEs. The Vikings really need depth at the position. I am also of the opinion that the best way for a team to improve its pass defense is to improve its pass rush.
Add in the fact that this is not a good draft for DEs. The Vikings really need depth at the position. I am also of the opinion that the best way for a team to improve its pass defense is to improve its pass rush.
HeirCoryell
Footballguy
What's the farthest down The Vikes could trade where you'd still feel good about them getting an impact player?
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Seriously people still want Johnny Football?? 
I don't see him having a good or long NFL career. He's too small and fragile for the NFL game IMO.
I'd think we will either grab a defensive player with our top pick, or we'll trade down either to middle or late first and then make a move on a QB with either first two picks. The value of this year's QB crop has fallen with many of these QBs going late first or in the 2nd round. Sure someone will be in love with 1-2 of these QB's and obtain them early or mid first, hopefully not us and NOT Johnny Football.
I don't see him having a good or long NFL career. He's too small and fragile for the NFL game IMO.I'd think we will either grab a defensive player with our top pick, or we'll trade down either to middle or late first and then make a move on a QB with either first two picks. The value of this year's QB crop has fallen with many of these QBs going late first or in the 2nd round. Sure someone will be in love with 1-2 of these QB's and obtain them early or mid first, hopefully not us and NOT Johnny Football.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
You guys are like this with this "too small" stuff.Seriously people still want Johnny Football??
I'd think we will either grab a defensive player with our top pick, or we'll trade down either to middle or late first and then make a move on a QB with either first two picks. The value of this year's QB crop has fallen with many of these QBs going late first or in the 2nd round. Sure someone will be in love with 1-2 of these QB's and obtain them early or mid first, hopefully not us and NOT Johnny Football.
2015.
Seriously though, "impact players" can certainly be had on Day Two. Even Day Three. Odds of winning the lottery go down the more players that come off the board. But I would have no problem with the team loading up on more picks on Day Two or even in next year's draft. Just so long as we aren't trading one diamond for a box of cubic zirconium. If we moved down to ~1.13-1.17 and picked up a couple extra tasty picks? I'd be 110% down with that! Get into the 1.20s and beyond, and they better be confident they can get Bridgewater or that one of the studly CB/LB is still on the board.
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