*** Official 2013 San Diego Chargers **** (1 Viewer)

[BoltNlava]

Bolo ties = child # 8??? lol....

 

[Gr00vus]

Bolo ties = child # 8??? lol....

You'd never catch Fouts wearing a bolo tie.

 

[BoltNlava]

ok this made me LOL

 

[Riversco]

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Under no circumstances should they do that. They WILL lose an air war with Peyton Manning. They need to commit to the run and dominate time of possession. Keep Manning on the sideline as much as possible.

 

[Tau837]

But the numbers support my argument. Rivers is better than Fouts, it really isn't even close.

I think you are right, but by a smaller margin than you are saying.

You are right because when all is said and done Fouts was a ~.500 QB that never won the big one. Rivers is 30 games over .500 already and he's still playing.

But I don't think you can compare their passing numbers out of context. For instance in '81 when Fouts threw for 4802 yards. Sounds impressive.... until you consider the #2 QB in the NFL(Tommy Kramer) threw for 3912 yards. He wouldn't even break the top 10 this year. HOF Joe Montana started all 16 games and threw for 223 yards/game... barely breaking the top 25 in 2013. Just behind Jason Cambell and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Barely squeaking ahead of Matt McGloin.

I honestly think that Coryell/Fouts would have had a 6000 yard season in the modern era where the league has moved toward defenders not being allowed to touch receivers down field and even after they have the ball there are so many rules regarding how they are allowed to tackle a receiver. If Fouts had the protection of modern day QB's he probably would have played longer as well. It's just a different game.

I'm the biggest Rivers fan around here. But I don't think it's justifiable to rank him above Fouts at this point.

First off, Fouts is a HOFer. At this time, Rivers is a long shot to make the HOF.

Also, Fouts stood out from his peers to a greater degree. Consider:

1. Fouts was 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 2 times. Rivers has never been 1st or 2nd team All Pro.

2. Fouts was also OPOY in 1982 and won a couple MVP awards (though not the AP award) that year. Rivers has not won any comparable awards.

3. Fouts led the league in passing yards 4 times, passing yards per game 6 times, and passing TDs 2 times. Rivers has been among the league leaders in many categories but not so frequently at the top of major categories. No doubt to some degree there is a difference there in volume of attempts, but it's still a positive for Fouts.

4. The Chargers' offense was #1 in yards 5 times under Fouts and #1 in points 3 times, compared to once each under Rivers.

Rivers definitely has a much better record as a starter, but to what degree does that have to do with playing in a weaker division than Fouts and/or having a better defense? I'm not sure, but I suspect that was part of it.

Now consider that Fouts did all that in an era where the rules were much less in favor of the offense than they are today. QBs were not protected in the same way, and defenders could play very physical with receivers.

I think Rivers could surpass Fouts before his career is over, but he's not there yet IMO.

Rivers has a higher career Y/A, while maintaining an INT% almost half of Fouts. Rivers career completion % is 64.4%, Fouts is 58.8%.

This ignores Rivers' edges in durability, winning %, and all of the counting stats (Rivers will obliterate all of Fouts records assuming he stays health the next 3-4 years).

I also think it's interesting that many Bolt fans were ready to ship Rivers out of town after his seasons with 20 and 15 INTS in 2011 and 2012. Fouts threw at least 15 INTs 9 times, and had 20+ INTs 5 times.

We can discuss this further in the offseason, but I am compelled to respond to this.

1. You ignored the majority of my points (HOF, major awards, performance of Chargers offense, different rules, etc.). Those things collectively dwarf the numbers.

2. Any Chargers fans who were ready to get rid of Rivers entering this season were off base, as has already been discussed extensively in this thread. Regardless, that has no relevant bearing to this tangent of discussion.

3. My post did not ignore winning percentage, as you claim here. I speculated about some reasons for the disparity that had nothing to do with Fouts or Rivers specifically -- division strength and quality of defense. You didn't comment on that.

4. I interpreted your original post as saying the numbers show Rivers is already better than Fouts. You say here that Rivers will eventually surpass Fouts' numbers, making it sound like you are saying he will eventually surpass Fouts. That is possible, though far from certain. But I wasn't necessarily arguing that, I was arguing against the idea that he should already be judged as better.

5. As for the numbers you brought up here, you overstate what they show:

a. You compare their completion percentage here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' completion percentage index has averaged 112.6 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 112.0. Especially considering that Fouts' numbers include his end of career numbers and Rivers' don't yet, that is a wash.

b. You compare their interception percentage here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' interception percentage index has averaged 105.9 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 101.2. Rivers has definitely been better, but not as much as just comparing their interception percentages without context suggests.

c. You compare their YPA here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' YPA index has averaged 116.9 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 114.9. Especially considering that Fouts' numbers include his end of career numbers and Rivers' don't yet, that is very close to a wash.

 

[BoltBacker]

Bolo ties = child # 8??? lol....

You'd never catch Fouts wearing a bolo tie.

At one time wasn't Fouts home in Indian Ford, Oregon? I'm guessing whatever they wear in Indian Ford makes Grizzly Adams look like a metrosexual.

 

[BoltBacker]

I disagree with those saying Rivers should dive for the first in that situation. Rivers is a great QB but he moves like an ice-burgh. He may have good size but he doesn't use his frame to generate power like some QB's near the LOS and more importantly has no quickness imo.

With one yard to go for a first down, Rivers has converted on 24 of his 29 career rush attempts.

His 82.76% conversion rate almost exactly matches the NFL average of 82.92% for QBs over the last 12 years.

The league average for RBs over the last 12 years is 69.44%, which suggests that teams really should run more QB sneaks and fewer RB dives on third- or fourth-and-one.

I don't care what any stats say..... if Rivers never runs the ball again it will be too soon.

Also, anyone running a dive into a goal-line defense absorbs more punishment imo, no matter what position they play.

 

[FF Ninja]

I don't have an opinion on Fouts vs. Rivers, but I do think that awards mean much less than anything else. They are so subjective. Didn't Derek Anderson make it to the Pro Bowl? Also, when there are less teams, awards are easier to come by. It's not huge, but 13 teams vs. 16 teams does make a difference. Winning percentage is tough, too. Division strength and surrounding players make such a huge impact. As an outsider, I just can't form a strong opinion one way or another here. There are strong cases for both players (although looking at stats while ignoring eras is really weak - those indexes provided by JWB were very pertinent).

 

[BoltBacker]

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

You do make a point.

People point to the Butler forced fumble as a turning point in the game but CIN still had the lead at half. The momentum really wasn't wrestled away from CIN until SD opened up the offense a little bit in the third quarter and made CIN respect both the pass and the run. Once they had the lead that put a lot more pressure on Dalton to try to move down field in chunks.

 

[BoltBacker]

The Chargers slid from #22 to #25 in the draft with today's win, with the Bengals, Chiefs, and Eagles all ahead of them now. The Bengals and Eagles both might go CB.

I think some years that might be a big deal(they actually dropped from the teens to mid 20's in just a few weeks).

At OL, Mathews will go early but you have Kouandjio, Lewan, Erving, Robinson, Richardson, Ogbuehi, Collins, and Martin all rated pretty similar from what I've read.

At CB you have Dennard, Gilbert, Ekpre-Olomu, Roby, Verett, Roberson, Fuller, Joyner that could swing wildly based on interviews and combine.

I was hoping for three of these guys based on drafting in the middle of each round but I still think they can draft two of these guys drafting closer to the end of each round.

 

[tommyGunZ]

But the numbers support my argument. Rivers is better than Fouts, it really isn't even close.

I think you are right, but by a smaller margin than you are saying.

You are right because when all is said and done Fouts was a ~.500 QB that never won the big one. Rivers is 30 games over .500 already and he's still playing.

But I don't think you can compare their passing numbers out of context. For instance in '81 when Fouts threw for 4802 yards. Sounds impressive.... until you consider the #2 QB in the NFL(Tommy Kramer) threw for 3912 yards. He wouldn't even break the top 10 this year. HOF Joe Montana started all 16 games and threw for 223 yards/game... barely breaking the top 25 in 2013. Just behind Jason Cambell and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Barely squeaking ahead of Matt McGloin.

I honestly think that Coryell/Fouts would have had a 6000 yard season in the modern era where the league has moved toward defenders not being allowed to touch receivers down field and even after they have the ball there are so many rules regarding how they are allowed to tackle a receiver. If Fouts had the protection of modern day QB's he probably would have played longer as well. It's just a different game.

I'm the biggest Rivers fan around here. But I don't think it's justifiable to rank him above Fouts at this point.

First off, Fouts is a HOFer. At this time, Rivers is a long shot to make the HOF.

Also, Fouts stood out from his peers to a greater degree. Consider:

1. Fouts was 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 2 times. Rivers has never been 1st or 2nd team All Pro.

2. Fouts was also OPOY in 1982 and won a couple MVP awards (though not the AP award) that year. Rivers has not won any comparable awards.

3. Fouts led the league in passing yards 4 times, passing yards per game 6 times, and passing TDs 2 times. Rivers has been among the league leaders in many categories but not so frequently at the top of major categories. No doubt to some degree there is a difference there in volume of attempts, but it's still a positive for Fouts.

4. The Chargers' offense was #1 in yards 5 times under Fouts and #1 in points 3 times, compared to once each under Rivers.

Rivers definitely has a much better record as a starter, but to what degree does that have to do with playing in a weaker division than Fouts and/or having a better defense? I'm not sure, but I suspect that was part of it.

Now consider that Fouts did all that in an era where the rules were much less in favor of the offense than they are today. QBs were not protected in the same way, and defenders could play very physical with receivers.

I think Rivers could surpass Fouts before his career is over, but he's not there yet IMO.

Rivers has a higher career Y/A, while maintaining an INT% almost half of Fouts. Rivers career completion % is 64.4%, Fouts is 58.8%.

This ignores Rivers' edges in durability, winning %, and all of the counting stats (Rivers will obliterate all of Fouts records assuming he stays health the next 3-4 years).

I also think it's interesting that many Bolt fans were ready to ship Rivers out of town after his seasons with 20 and 15 INTS in 2011 and 2012. Fouts threw at least 15 INTs 9 times, and had 20+ INTs 5 times.

We can discuss this further in the offseason, but I am compelled to respond to this.

1. You ignored the majority of my points (HOF, major awards, performance of Chargers offense, different rules, etc.). Those things collectively dwarf the numbers.

2. Any Chargers fans who were ready to get rid of Rivers entering this season were off base, as has already been discussed extensively in this thread. Regardless, that has no relevant bearing to this tangent of discussion.

3. My post did not ignore winning percentage, as you claim here. I speculated about some reasons for the disparity that had nothing to do with Fouts or Rivers specifically -- division strength and quality of defense. You didn't comment on that.

4. I interpreted your original post as saying the numbers show Rivers is already better than Fouts. You say here that Rivers will eventually surpass Fouts' numbers, making it sound like you are saying he will eventually surpass Fouts. That is possible, though far from certain. But I wasn't necessarily arguing that, I was arguing against the idea that he should already be judged as better.

5. As for the numbers you brought up here, you overstate what they show:

a. You compare their completion percentage here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' completion percentage index has averaged 112.6 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 112.0. Especially considering that Fouts' numbers include his end of career numbers and Rivers' don't yet, that is a wash.

b. You compare their interception percentage here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' interception percentage index has averaged 105.9 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 101.2. Rivers has definitely been better, but not as much as just comparing their interception percentages without context suggests.

c. You compare their YPA here without accounting for difference in eras. Per PFR, Rivers' YPA index has averaged 116.9 in his career to date, compared to Fouts' career average of 114.9. Especially considering that Fouts' numbers include his end of career numbers and Rivers' don't yet, that is very close to a wash.

1) Awards dwarf performance numbers? I disagree.

2) Agreed.

3) Perhaps you didn't "ignore" winning %, but you casually dismissed it.

4) Rivers' per game, per attempt, TD/INT ratio, etc. numbers ARE already better than Fouts. Of course Rivers hasn't bested Fouts' career counting stats; Fouts accumulated almost 15 years of stats as a starter, while Rivers just finished his 8th year. Yet Rivers will pass Fouts in TDs either at the end of next season or early 2015, and in yards in early 2016. Obviously the different eras cloud this picture somewhat, but it's hard to argue that Fouts is the better player when Rivers bests him in virtually all stats, both counting and efficiency.

5a) I would expect Rivers' career completion % to end up higher than it currently is now. The offensive system he's currently playing in, and likely to be playing in throughout the remainder of his career is far more completion % friendly than Norv's system that Philip ran for 6 years. Perhaps not 69.5% every year from now on, but 65% or higher seems likely.

5b) Rivers > Fouts, even adjusting for eras.

5c) Rivers > Fouts, even adjusting for eras.

And while I certainly understand the value in adjusting across eras, I think that adjustment somewhat unfairly skews the data in favor of Fouts due to Don Coryell's brilliance. There is no question that Fouts benefited immensely from Coryell's system that changed the way NFL offenses operated.

 

[tommyGunZ]

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

You do make a point.

People point to the Butler forced fumble as a turning point in the game but CIN still had the lead at half. The momentum really wasn't wrestled away from CIN until SD opened up the offense a little bit in the third quarter and made CIN respect both the pass and the run. Once they had the lead that put a lot more pressure on Dalton to try to move down field in chunks.

I think some of you clamoring for McCoy and Whiz to open up the offense from the opening snap are not taking into account the full value of how a conservative running attack early in the game can limit overall possessions and disguise offensive packages that yield bigger dividends when deployed later in the game. Especially with a pass defense as poor as San Diego's, limiting possessions against teams with potent air attacks like Cincy and Denver seems like a no brainer.

 

[Gr00vus]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

And Fluker as well, he was in a walking boot after the game IIRC.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Eric Weddle is ####### awesome

 

[DanFouts]

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

You do make a point.

People point to the Butler forced fumble as a turning point in the game but CIN still had the lead at half. The momentum really wasn't wrestled away from CIN until SD opened up the offense a little bit in the third quarter and made CIN respect both the pass and the run. Once they had the lead that put a lot more pressure on Dalton to try to move down field in chunks.

I think some of you clamoring for McCoy and Whiz to open up the offense from the opening snap are not taking into account the full value of how a conservative running attack early in the game can limit overall possessions and disguise offensive packages that yield bigger dividends when deployed later in the game. Especially with a pass defense as poor as San Diego's, limiting possessions against teams with potent air attacks like Cincy and Denver seems like a no brainer.

I love a strong running game, and think it's a great gameplan. I just think they get real conservative in the redzone and that costs them TDs. That fade to Green should be a staple play. Now if you are at the 1 yard line, it's something different...(Redskins game)....

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

You do make a point.

People point to the Butler forced fumble as a turning point in the game but CIN still had the lead at half. The momentum really wasn't wrestled away from CIN until SD opened up the offense a little bit in the third quarter and made CIN respect both the pass and the run. Once they had the lead that put a lot more pressure on Dalton to try to move down field in chunks.

I think some of you clamoring for McCoy and Whiz to open up the offense from the opening snap are not taking into account the full value of how a conservative running attack early in the game can limit overall possessions and disguise offensive packages that yield bigger dividends when deployed later in the game. Especially with a pass defense as poor as San Diego's, limiting possessions against teams with potent air attacks like Cincy and Denver seems like a no brainer.

I love a strong running game, and think it's a great gameplan. I just think they get real conservative in the redzone and that costs them TDs. That fade to Green should be a staple play. Now if you are at the 1 yard line, it's something different...(Redskins game)....

RIGHT!

 

[BoltNlava]

The Wiz at head coach failed in Ariz for a reason...I think he tries to get too cute. Mix that with our current HC there will be befuddlement. Don't get me wrong, I want the Wiz to stay but study more on what makes our personnel work. 1 year to do that was asking too much after our team was torn apart by gm inability and Norv's game management (mis?)...I think a sweet spot blend will be needed to make a strong run. For now let the River's run and go with that. After all we all know we need another strong draft to make this work.

I for one am pretty surprised at the progress in a very short time.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The Wiz at head coach failed in Ariz for a reason...I think he tries to get too cute. Mix that with our current HC there will be befuddlement. Don't get me wrong, I want the Wiz to stay but study more on what makes our personnel work. 1 year to do that was asking too much after our team was torn apart by gm inability and Norv's game management (mis?)...I think a sweet spot blend will be needed to make a strong run. For now let the River's run and go with that. After all we all know we need another strong draft to make this work.

I for one am pretty surprised at the progress in a very short time.

the Whiz failed as a HC in Ariz because his HOF QB retired and they never replaced him.

I dont think its his fault he couldnt coach up John Skelton

 

[BoltNlava]

The Wiz at head coach failed in Ariz for a reason...I think he tries to get too cute. Mix that with our current HC there will be befuddlement. Don't get me wrong, I want the Wiz to stay but study more on what makes our personnel work. 1 year to do that was asking too much after our team was torn apart by gm inability and Norv's game management (mis?)...I think a sweet spot blend will be needed to make a strong run. For now let the River's run and go with that. After all we all know we need another strong draft to make this work.

I for one am pretty surprised at the progress in a very short time.

the Whiz failed as a HC in Ariz because his HOF QB retired and they never replaced him.

I dont think its his fault he couldnt coach up John Skelton

I guess we'll see. Some team will tab him as HC and we'll be out an opportunity to see a quality oc be another wash and rinse style leader....Norv is not everyone, I know, but he's good at what he does. I think it may be the same with Wiz. We'll see tho...as you say qb is key so there's always an out there.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

And Fluker as well, he was in a walking boot after the game IIRC.

All three of those guys missed practice today.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

And Fluker as well, he was in a walking boot after the game IIRC.

All three of those guys missed practice today.

I thought the backup to Hardwick played really well on Sunday

 

[BoltNlava]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

And Fluker as well, he was in a walking boot after the game IIRC.

All three of those guys missed practice today.

I thought the backup to Hardwick played really well on Sunday

me as well....May have impact on playcalling tho

 

[tommyGunZ]

Any more news on Mathews and Hardwick? I can't find much.

And Fluker as well, he was in a walking boot after the game IIRC.

All three of those guys missed practice today.

Yep. You a Darren Smith fan MT?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

 

[BoltNlava]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

so based on this info is it run heavy or pass?????? Anyone? I'm not sure of the bkups capabilities.

 

[Gr00vus]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

That could have been the last play of his career. He really got knocked silly on that one.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

That could have been the last play of his career. He really got knocked silly on that one.

Gosh I hope not. I love Hardwick, and he's had a phenomenal year to this point, per my naked eye (not sure how he grades out per FO).

 

[BoltBacker]

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

You do make a point.

People point to the Butler forced fumble as a turning point in the game but CIN still had the lead at half. The momentum really wasn't wrestled away from CIN until SD opened up the offense a little bit in the third quarter and made CIN respect both the pass and the run. Once they had the lead that put a lot more pressure on Dalton to try to move down field in chunks.

I think some of you clamoring for McCoy and Whiz to open up the offense from the opening snap are not taking into account the full value of how a conservative running attack early in the game can limit overall possessions and disguise offensive packages that yield bigger dividends when deployed later in the game. Especially with a pass defense as poor as San Diego's, limiting possessions against teams with potent air attacks like Cincy and Denver seems like a no brainer.

I love a strong running game, and think it's a great gameplan. I just think they get real conservative in the redzone and that costs them TDs. That fade to Green should be a staple play. Now if you are at the 1 yard line, it's something different...(Redskins game)....

Same here, just noting that when the game turned they were being more aggressive. I've posted all season long that the most important part of SD's best defensive performances have been due to Rivers/McCoy playing keep away from the opposition. I'm hardly "clamoring" for any sort of change.

 

[BoltBacker]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

That could have been the last play of his career. He really got knocked silly on that one.

Concussions for offensive lineman(or defensive lineman for that matter) are pretty scary because constant helmet to helmet contact is inevitable. If it was a CB it wouldn't be nearly as worrisome. As good as the SD OL looked last week it's important to remember that both Hardwick and Dunlap have had concussion issues this season. I hope nobody is lulled into thinking the OL is "fixed" somehow based on the fact they made it to the final eight. Dunlap, Hardwick, and Clary all need to be pushed and hopefully unseated by FA's and/or rookies by the end of next season imo.

I hope Hardwick is healthy and has no ill effects from this injury. He's been a solid player over his career but I've always thought that despite the fact he's supposed to be a close friend of Rivers they have had some big miscommunications over the years for two long time veteran teammates.

 

[Gr00vus]

Also, for those who don't listen to 1090 all day, Hardwick was concussed on Sunday, and has not been cleared go resume practicing this week.

After the Dielman ordeal, I think the Chargers are probably one of the more conservative teams with regard to protecting their players. Big loss if Nick doesn't play Sunday, but I'm thinking it's very doubtful at this point.

That could have been the last play of his career. He really got knocked silly on that one.

Gosh I hope not. I love Hardwick, and he's had a phenomenal year to this point, per my naked eye (not sure how he grades out per FO).

I hope not too. But that's about what led Dielman to retire. He's been in the league longer than Dielman was.

 

[Gr00vus]

Today is bolo tie day. I'm not kidding.

I used to have some of these back in the 80s.

 

[DanFouts]

Hardwick back at practice....

But Matthews not....

 

[tommyGunZ]

Hardwick back at practice....

But Matthews not....

Overall this is good news.

I suspect rest outweighed the value in Mathews practicing today. Hardwinna being cleared is outstanding news.

 

[DanFouts]

Hardwick back at practice....

But Matthews not....

Overall this is good news.

I suspect rest outweighed the value in Mathews practicing today. Hardwinna being cleared is outstanding news.

Bolts From The Blue @BFTB_Chargers
RT @UTkrasovic: Mathews is present for McCoy' post-practice address. No walking boot. Gimpy gait.

Matthews now officially "Questionable...game time decision"....I hope they can just inject that sucker....Brown/Woodhead power game does not inspire me....

 

[BoltBacker]

I have to give Rivers/McCoy/Telesco a lot of credit, didn't think they had a shot at the playoffs let alone winning a game in the playoffs. Allen/Fluker are definitely two important pieces to build this team around moving forward. Brady will be 37 by the start of the season next year(Manning 38). There is definitely a change at the top of the conference coming very soon.

 

[Polar Dude]

So Whisenhunt moves on to Detroit. Chud comes back?

 

[DanFouts]

Tough game to call....Chargers O line and D line look as good as they have all year. Ingram...wow! Butler....wow!

And that D front 7 play has made secondary look at least average (as opposed to putrid). I still get heart palpitations every time someone throws deep...that 4th quarter pass to AJ Green double covered would have changed the game.

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Damn Whiz.....so insistent on maintaining a horrible running game the first 3 quarters with Matthews out.....could have won if they opened up it up earlier

 

[Riversco]

Tough game to call....Chargers O line and D line look as good as they have all year. Ingram...wow! Butler....wow!

And that D front 7 play has made secondary look at least average (as opposed to putrid). I still get heart palpitations every time someone throws deep...that 4th quarter pass to AJ Green double covered would have changed the game.

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Damn Whiz.....so insistent on maintaining a horrible running game the first 3 quarters with Matthews out.....could have won if they opened up it up earlier

You can't do that. The running game got them this far. You have to have faith that the running game will work. Credit the Broncos for stopping it.

 

[Riversco]

Next year will be very entertaining!

 

[Tau837]

Tough game to call....Chargers O line and D line look as good as they have all year. Ingram...wow! Butler....wow!

And that D front 7 play has made secondary look at least average (as opposed to putrid). I still get heart palpitations every time someone throws deep...that 4th quarter pass to AJ Green double covered would have changed the game.

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Damn Whiz.....so insistent on maintaining a horrible running game the first 3 quarters with Matthews out.....could have won if they opened up it up earlier

You can't do that. The running game got them this far. You have to have faith that the running game will work. Credit the Broncos for stopping it.

The running game that got them this far was Mathews. He was done for the game just a couple minutes into the second quarter, and they should have opened it up much sooner.

 

[Tau837]

I didn't see anyone mention the fact that Whisenhunt was allowed to have three interviews during the week leading up to this game. That seems very unusual, and it's hard for me to believe that time might not have been better spent watching film and game planning for this game. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed here. Did no one else have any concerns over that?

 

[Gr00vus]

I didn't see anyone mention the fact that Whisenhunt was allowed to have three interviews during the week leading up to this game. That seems very unusual, and it's hard for me to believe that time might not have been better spent watching film and game planning for this game. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed here. Did no one else have any concerns over that?

I doubt his interviewing caused Wright to drop an easy interception or Novak to miss a field goal or for the defense to have serious problems getting off the field on 3rd down. If they can make those plays (like championship teams do) they probably win this one.

Could they have been a bit more imaginative with the play calls in the 1st half - sure. Should they have changed things up when it was clear Mathews wasn't effective - sure. But they were sticking to the recipe that won them one and got them close in another. They almost made it in this one too.

Not enough pass rush today. Also I still think they should nab a stud NT if they can.

It's galling to see Vazquez go to the pro bowl. Don't know why they didn't keep that guy.

Still a positive season overall. If they do good stuff in the draft and FA they they're legitimate contenders.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Those wondering why the Chargers didn't open up the offense earlier - did you guys see Rivers getting hammered every time he dropped back in the first half? OL was horrendous in the first half.

Better team won today. Would have loved the boys to pull out a shocker late, but they didn't deserve to win today. Too many offsides penalties. The dropped pick by Wright. Gates not showing up. OL playing as bad as we've seen in 2 months. Weddle played like ####.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I didn't see anyone mention the fact that Whisenhunt was allowed to have three interviews during the week leading up to this game. That seems very unusual, and it's hard for me to believe that time might not have been better spent watching film and game planning for this game. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed here. Did no one else have any concerns over that?

I doubt his interviewing caused Wright to drop an easy interception or Novak to miss a field goal or for the defense to have serious problems getting off the field on 3rd down. If they can make those plays (like championship teams do) they probably win this one.

Could they have been a bit more imaginative with the play calls in the 1st half - sure. Should they have changed things up when it was clear Mathews wasn't effective - sure. But they were sticking to the recipe that won them one and got them close in another. They almost made it in this one too.

Not enough pass rush today. Also I still think they should nab a stud NT if they can.

It's galling to see Vazquez go to the pro bowl. Don't know why they didn't keep that guy.

Still a positive season overall. If they do good stuff in the draft and FA they they're legitimate contenders.

Need two corners who are ready to play immediately and two guards.

I'd also be interested in a WR via FA to come in and draw some safety attention from Allen.

 

[FF Ninja]

Tough game to call....Chargers O line and D line look as good as they have all year. Ingram...wow! Butler....wow!

And that D front 7 play has made secondary look at least average (as opposed to putrid). I still get heart palpitations every time someone throws deep...that 4th quarter pass to AJ Green double covered would have changed the game.

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Damn Whiz.....so insistent on maintaining a horrible running game the first 3 quarters with Matthews out.....could have won if they opened up it up earlier

You can't do that. The running game got them this far. You have to have faith that the running game will work. Credit the Broncos for stopping it.

I think last night really highlighted the difference between Woodhead and Mathews. I know people love Woodhead, but he's just not a very good runner. Sure, he can pick up yards on draw plays when the defense is playing the pass, but the guy is an easy arm tackle and is pretty much worthless when used as real, early down back to run between the tackles and give you 2nd and 5. Instead, you end up with 2nd and 8, then 3rd and 6. He's got great hands and 4.4 speed, so he's an asset, but he'll always be a niche player.

Last night also highlighted that this offensive line has overachieved this year, but still needs some improvement. Rivers was getting almost instant pressure from a 4 man rush in the first half.

As an outsider, I'd like to see the Chargers improve the line and maybe bring in a free agent like Gerhart to replace Ronnie Brown. I've always liked Brown, but he turns 33 next year and I think Gerhart would make a nice fill in for Mathews or Woodhead if either were to miss time. He won't be super cheap but they need a contingency plan should Mathews walk after next year or miss time in 2014. I'd really like to see an additional weapon for Rivers, but I feel like defense has to be the next focus. If they can snag a Maclin or Holmes on the cheap then they should absolutely do it, but I don't think anyone like Nicks or Decker will be feasible.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Those wondering why the Chargers didn't open up the offense earlier - did you guys see Rivers getting hammered every time he dropped back in the first half? OL was horrendous in the first half.

Better team won today. Would have loved the boys to pull out a shocker late, but they didn't deserve to win today. Too many offsides penalties. The dropped pick by Wright. Gates not showing up. OL playing as bad as we've seen in 2 months. Weddle played like ####.

3/5 of the starting Oline didnt practice all week, throw in Woodhead who couldnt block me and you have a disaster, took em a half to get their feet under them

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Tough game to call....Chargers O line and D line look as good as they have all year. Ingram...wow! Butler....wow!

And that D front 7 play has made secondary look at least average (as opposed to putrid). I still get heart palpitations every time someone throws deep...that 4th quarter pass to AJ Green double covered would have changed the game.

But key to winning will be the offense...(and related to each other)

1. Can they change their pitiful red zone ways....

2. Will they let Rivers loose. Seems like lots of conservative play calling as if they fears Rivers will throw pick six, fumble, etc at critical stage.

Damn Whiz.....so insistent on maintaining a horrible running game the first 3 quarters with Matthews out.....could have won if they opened up it up earlier

You can't do that. The running game got them this far. You have to have faith that the running game will work. Credit the Broncos for stopping it.

I think last night really highlighted the difference between Woodhead and Mathews. I know people love Woodhead, but he's just not a very good runner. Sure, he can pick up yards on draw plays when the defense is playing the pass, but the guy is an easy arm tackle and is pretty much worthless when used as real, early down back to run between the tackles and give you 2nd and 5. Instead, you end up with 2nd and 8, then 3rd and 6. He's got great hands and 4.4 speed, so he's an asset, but he'll always be a niche player.

Last night also highlighted that this offensive line has overachieved this year, but still needs some improvement. Rivers was getting almost instant pressure from a 4 man rush in the first half.

As an outsider, I'd like to see the Chargers improve the line and maybe bring in a free agent like Gerhart to replace Ronnie Brown. I've always liked Brown, but he turns 33 next year and I think Gerhart would make a nice fill in for Mathews or Woodhead if either were to miss time. He won't be super cheap but they need a contingency plan should Mathews walk after next year or miss time in 2014. I'd really like to see an additional weapon for Rivers, but I feel like defense has to be the next focus. If they can snag a Maclin or Holmes on the cheap then they should absolutely do it, but I don't think anyone like Nicks or Decker will be feasible.

The focus should be in this order:

Corners

Corners

Oline

Linebacker

Oline

WR

RB

This first round seems deep at Corner, several going in round1 in mocks I see, dont mean they can all play, I say go FA for a one corner and drart depth at the spot.

More Oline help please

If gates returns, move L.Green to start opposite Keenan would be the move I would make as HC/OC not sure how feasible it is but kid needs to be on the field every play.

Ronnie BRown is toast, Woodhead is a good COP/PPR player but if over used he kills you, like he did yesterday missing blocks and getting exposed. Need a capable backup in the Draft or a smart FA move

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

So Whisenhunt moves on to Detroit. Chud comes back?

I think Chud was a norv turner underling, not sure if the current staff has any tied to him

 

[cstu]

As much as I knock this team for losing in the playoffs, they deserve a lot of credit for only one losing season (7-9 even) in 10 years.

That's not something I ever expected when I became a fan in 2003.