*** Official 2013 San Diego Chargers **** (2 Viewers)

[BoltBacker]

On another note, the defense looked horrible yesterday.

The defense has been terrible all year. Rivers/McCoy have been successful hiding how bad the defense is with long sustained drives in certain games but it really hasn't played well all year.

 

[BoltBacker]

and BTW weddle is awful this year, I was never a big fan but hes getting abused

Overall a play here and there this team could be 6-2.

I disagree, there are plenty of plays where Weddle is making the tackle that would otherwise be a long play possibly for a TD. He hasn't caused a lot of turnovers but I don't think he's the problem.

Donald Butler(when healthy) is the guy that looked like a shell of his former self imo. Maybe he was playing hurt? He just didn't seem like the same dominating guy from last year. Butler/Cox are the two guys that have been bitterly disappointing on defense imo. Some people might add Te'o lacking the ability to be a force on all those running plays vs WAS but my expectations of Te'o are pretty low and getting lower. He's a 2 down LB that may not even be all that special against the run?

This team is closer to a 3-5 team than a 6-2 team imo. They went out and won games vs DAL and IND. They were lucky enough to have JAX on their schedule. They haven't really deserved a win in any of the rest, those games, they could just have gone either way. Overall, they looked like a team that would struggle to play .500 going into the season and SURPRISE, that's what they have proven to be.

 

[BoltBacker]

I thought it was a bad spot after the TD was overturned. They marked it about a full yard out. I thought it should have been more like six inches.

That's something I didn't understand either. I think the announcers even mentioned the exact words "six inches short" and I agree the spot was too far away. I thought maybe it wouldn't make a difference because the center usually walks up to the ball, picks it up, and then leans forward which puts it further forward than the actual spot of the ball.

I understand the criticism of the Woodhead draw in short yardage, I've been saying the same thing even when it's been a success this year. For all the people crucifying the coaches for not running Mathews I thought it had been posted the coaches called a run to Mathews and Rivers audibled out of it to throw to Gates. Most of Rivers audibles have been great this year(especially the past few weeks) so I find it difficult to suddenly criticize him for one that goes bad. I just hate to see a one-matchup pattern at the goal line. People are also ignoring the fact Mathews simply hasn't been a success in goal line situations over the past year or year and a half.

I was shocked there wasn't a play to Royal similar to the goal line play Welker scored against WAS the previous week. It's the exact pick play that was called for a penalty in TEN. It's illegal but teams run them all the time(as den demonstrated). I just don't think SD has the people to run a goal line offense like they proved before the half vs JAX. Even if you get pushed back a few yards due to penalty you are better off with some sort of multi-read option imo than either an inside run with the players SD has or putting Rivers in a situation to audible to a Gates-gets-open-or-? type play.

With all the problems SD has inside the five yard line I also don't understand why Ladarius Green isn't a big part of that package. I think he has earned more PT(he's been great on ST's) all over the field, but in particular how can you not give more chances to an athletic 6'6" guy on the goal line?

 

[BoltBacker]

This teams needs a true shut-down corner.

I agree but I think 31 other teams would also like Richard Sherman. Can't think of many others. To their credit they went out and signed the highest rated CB available in FA so I give them credit for trying.

 

[FF Ninja]

Complete unmitigated disaster at the goal line. Not sure why there werent three straight power run plays. 1 damn yard with two timeouts and a 1st and goal from inside the 1. Brutal. Not to mention we pay the fullback 3 mill for doing nothing.

I thought it was a bad spot after the TD was overturned. They marked it about a full yard out. I thought it should have been more like six inches.

Either way, with two time-outs, the play calls should have been Mathews over the top or Rivers on a sneak. Repeat as necessary until fourth down. Play-action every once in a while in that situation is okay, but it should be pretty rare. An inside handoff to the scatback should be even more rare.

I usually try not to second-guess the play-calling in those situations because it's hard to do well and generally smacks of mistaking hindsight for insight. But in this case, the play-calling was pretty weird.

Yeah, I thought they said 6" but then they put the nose of the ball right up against the 1 yard line. Almost like they got confused which line the ball was supposed to be up against. Either way, the use of Woodhead at that juncture was boggling and infuriating as a Mathews owner. I hope they cut Mathews before the last year of his contract. This environment is toxic for him. Woodhead has his uses, but they've gone from trying to use him in situations where his and Ryan's talents overlapped to straight up using him at his weakest points where Mathews is strongest. I still think Mathews should be in for more passing downs and should receive some targets, but I guess Whisenhunt knows best.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

They need a pass rush. Dallas lost their only pass rusher in Ware and they stink even worse than they were. If you can get a pass rush on a QB without blitzing all the time, you make even great Qbs like Manning and Brady look human, especially from up the middle.

Like everyone else, I think they'll give up 500 yards on defense next week because they won't get to Manning enough. If you do not get to him, he will kill you. Being at home will help but Manning is the master at controlling that line of scrimmage and using no huddle to neutralize any problems with the clock and noise. However, we'll see how not having Fox will affect them, it certainly didn't help Houston to not have Kubiak on the sideline in the 2nd half of that game vs Indy.

 

[Tau837]

People are also ignoring the fact Mathews simply hasn't been a success in goal line situations over the past year or year and a half.

This is untrue, at least according to the Data Dominator, which says Mathews has been given exactly 1 carry inside the opposing 5 yard line since the start of the 2012 season. It was his 3 yard TD run against JAX this season.

 

[BoltBacker]

People are also ignoring the fact Mathews simply hasn't been a success in goal line situations over the past year or year and a half.

This is untrue, at least according to the Data Dominator, which says Mathews has been given exactly 1 carry inside the opposing 5 yard line since the start of the 2012 season. It was his 3 yard TD run against JAX this season.

Hmmmmm... I was surprised by this because my first "WTF!" moment watching Mathews was a fumble inside the 5 in a home loss to the Falcons in 2012. When I looked for that run I don't think they include any of the runs that result in a fumble. Remember, you are talking about a guy that has 15 rushing TD vs 13 fumbles over his career. So I looked at ALL his carries from the 5yd line or closer and I was surprised....

2010 0-5

2011 4-5 !! he had six total rushing TD for the season so four of the six came from inside the five !!

2012 0-0

2013 1-1

I guess I have always felt he was a poor goal line back from inside the five based upon my early impressions of him(his rookie season). While he has been productive in his opportunities since then I do think it might be telling that two different coaching regimes have been very reluctant to give him those opportunities. It's a drill every team in the league practices so they should have a good feel for his ability in those situations.

Nice catch on your part.

 

[Tau837]

As I've posted before, I don't put as much stock in the two regimes argument.

Last season, prior to his preseason injury, the coaching regime was set to make Mathews a true bellcow RB. Then he got hurt and missed several weeks, and the team had to use the other RBs, who had moderate success. Then Mathews fumbled in his first game back and Norv/A.J. overreacted and his usage issues (no two minute drills, limited passing downs, limited red zone) began. Still, he actually played reasonably well last season until the OL was decimated by injuries and he got hurt again.

Then the new coaching staff took over and brought in Woodhead, so he is "their guy." I like Woodhead, and I think he certainly deserves a role, but IMO it should be a complementary role to Mathews, not the main guy. Still, Mathews' usage had been trending up, and he was performing well... and then, he had a strong first quarter yesterday... and then... he was nowhere to be found.

This coaching staff has done a good job overall with the offense. It is really surprising that they aren't less predictable in their playcalling and usage of the RBs. The first play of the season, Mathews caught a wheel route for a 14 yard TD, and they have essentially ignored him in the passing game ever since. But why? It is baffling.

 

[Gr00vus]

They could have called 3 sneaks. Or try McClain at TB and put TE Phillips in the backfield at FB to block for him. Either of those would have been better than what they actually called.

 

[BoltBacker]

I think SD surprised people this week and beats the overrated donks.

SD leads the league in number of plays per drive, and the TOP per drive. The SD defense it awful but when they win the defense isn't on the field much. They should also win the TO battle. Lastly, SD has more on the line this week as they are tied for the #7 seed in the AFC and one game out of the playoffs at the moment. Not that it matters all that much.... neither of these teams can win a playoff game. Just like I said all season last year.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think SD surprised people this week and beats the overrated donks.

SD leads the league in number of plays per drive, and the TOP per drive. The SD defense it awful but when they win the defense isn't on the field much. They should also win the TO battle. Lastly, SD has more on the line this week as they are tied for the #7 seed in the AFC and one game out of the playoffs at the moment. Not that it matters all that much.... neither of these teams can win a playoff game. Just like I said all season last year.

I don't see the Chargers winning this one. The Broncos might score 50+ even if they don't win time of possession and I don't think the Charger offense can keep up (they'll have too many turnovers).

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

SDs secondary cant matchup at all

 

[Gr00vus]

I get that it's standard operating proceedure, but settling for field goals vs. the Broncos seems kinda dumb to me.

 

[BoltBacker]

I get that it's standard operating proceedure, but settling for field goals vs. the Broncos seems kinda dumb to me.

Meh, I don't have any problems with the FG but I do think we're starting to see a problem with the coaching staff. Short yardage and redzone shouldn't be this difficult. On 3rd-2 inside the 10 you need to convert. When you are down by multiple scores in the 4th quarter and you have 1st-goal you really, really don't need to burn one of your timeouts.

At the end of the first half vs JAX they showed there was a problem. Against WAS they lost a game because they didn't fix the problem. You would assume if there was one thing they would be ready for this week it was what to do in red zone/short yardage. It's incredible. What will it take to get it fixed?

It's also sad watching this "improved" OL. Please spare me the "without Dunlap" yammer. Yeah, Dunlap is a fifth year player that wouldn't start for any team other than SD. If they had simply signed Winston for the vet minimum and traded a last day pick for a 26yo Euegen Monroe then Dunlap would have been nothing more than your 2nd string OT. Fluker(starting at G) would have been your third string OT. Clary(second string OG) would have been your emergency fourth string OT. How much better would this team be for the veteran minimum and a pick or two from the last day in the draft? Sickening how little it would have cost for the team to be so much better.

 

[BoltBacker]

Ughhhhhhh, and it continues. From the 2014 draft thread and Yahoo sports projecting each teams biggest needs...

San Diego Chargers
1. Outside linebacker 2. Running back 3. Offensive line
Another edge player on defense will be needed to attack and contain a diverse set of AFC West quarterbacks, plus depth at several other spots.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-draft-report-gamecocks-quarles-come-32-200828150--nfl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

... Ingram should be coming back, English has actually showed a pulse, and as much as I've criticized Johnson he's actually played much better this year when he's been healthy. RB!? Nobody is going to get more than half the carries with Woodhead around and as I said when SD packaged picks to move up to take Mathews you just don't prioritize RB in the NFL anymore unless you are convinced he's the next Adrian Peterson.

I know it's just a dumb sports blog on yahoo but sometimes I feel like people are watching something completely different than what I'm watching when the Chargers play. The OL LOOKS better this year because Rivers/McCoy are getting rid of the ball early but the offense only mustered 20 points against a terrible den defense(only the Jags have scored fewer against the donks with 19) and had every opportunity to tie the game in the 4th quarter if they weren't busy getting penalties and giving up sacks. Insanity.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Ughhhhhhh, and it continues. From the 2014 draft thread and Yahoo sports projecting each teams biggest needs...

San Diego Chargers

1. Outside linebacker 2. Running back 3. Offensive line

Another edge player on defense will be needed to attack and contain a diverse set of AFC West quarterbacks, plus depth at several other spots.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-draft-report-gamecocks-quarles-come-32-200828150--nfl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

... Ingram should be coming back, English has actually showed a pulse, and as much as I've criticized Johnson he's actually played much better this year when he's been healthy. RB!? Nobody is going to get more than half the carries with Woodhead around and as I said when SD packaged picks to move up to take Mathews you just don't prioritize RB in the NFL anymore unless you are convinced he's the next Adrian Peterson.

I know it's just a dumb sports blog on yahoo but sometimes I feel like people are watching something completely different than what I'm watching when the Chargers play. The OL LOOKS better this year because Rivers/McCoy are getting rid of the ball early but the offense only mustered 20 points against a terrible den defense(only the Jags have scored fewer against the donks with 19) and had every opportunity to tie the game in the 4th quarter if they weren't busy getting penalties and giving up sacks. Insanity.

#1 - Corner

#2 - Oline

#3 - Corner

#4 - Oline

If there is a great LB in there somewher Id be ok with that

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

#1 - Corner

#2 - Oline

#3 - Corner

#4 - Oline

Another outside linebacker is about the last thing the Chargers need. Dwight Freeney and Jarret Johnson both looked great when healthy, and Melvin Ingram should be a starter for the next five years. Larry English is adequate depth.

I'd say the biggest need is at corner. Cox, Wright, Patrick, and Marshall have all been terrible. None of them should be starting, and none of them should even be in the nickel. Between the draft and free agency, the Chargers need four new corners next year -- or maybe three if you count Steve Williams, who showed some ability during the preseason.

(The defensive line, inside linebackers, and safeties have been a bit disappointing this season, but I don't think it's for a lack of talent. The play at safety has been okay, actually, just not up to Weddle's usual standards.)

On the offensive line, I'd been down on Nick Hardwick for the past few years, but he looks a lot stronger this season. Fluker is a keeper at one tackle, and while I've always been less pessimistic than most Charger fans about King Dunlap, he's exceeded even my expectations. He's been a legitimate starting-quality left tackle. Even Michael Harris looked much improved this season before getting hurt.

It's at both guard spots that the OL has been terrible. The Clary experiment has been a failure and should not last beyond this year. Nobody else is worthy of starting, either. And depth is needed everywhere along the OL.

I might go CB-CB-OG-OG-CB in the draft.

 

[Beerguzzler]

English is a free agent bros. Jarrett Johnson and Freeney are gone the following year. Freeney may be gone this offseason actually. We need a pass rusher. You really don't find good ones in later rounds either.

CB in the first is a joke IMO. Either a LT, NT, or OLB in the first.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't think it would be too difficult to retain any of those guys.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

English is a free agent bros. Jarrett Johnson and Freeney are gone the following year. Freeney may be gone this offseason actually. We need a pass rusher. You really don't find good ones in later rounds either.

CB in the first is a joke IMO. Either a LT, NT, or OLB in the first.

why is CB a joke in the first? granted there might not be one worth taking. and it seems early 1st corners have struggled lately.

I doubt their pick will be low enough to get a patrick peterson type if there is one in the draft.

 

[BoltBacker]

Based on what I've read...

1st OL

2nd OL

3rd CB

4th CB

5th DT

6th OT

7th OG

CB prospects seem very, very strong in rounds 2-4 but I wouldn't risk a first round pick on anyone available this year. OL prospects are stronger in the first two rounds based on what the sites are projecting now.

 

[BoltBacker]

I doubt their pick will be low enough to get a patrick peterson type if there is one in the draft.

Both Roby and Ekpre-Olomu seem like athletic, high ceiling guys but I just don't think the Chargers can risk missing on a boom or bust type pick. They have to get every down starters out of the first two rounds and the OL'men seem much safer this year imo. I'd much rather see them take two or even three CB's in the middle of the draft than gamble on any one of the guys at the very top. It's very possible Verrett ends up being the best CB in the draft but slides on draft day if he has a few poor days(bowl game/allstar game/combine) and scouts seem to weigh those more than an entire college football career all to often. Some teams already probably rank him too low because of his measurables.

 

[DanFouts]

Well after that mess, we might have a higher draft pick that could work on a 1st round CB.

I imagine we get swept by Chiefs, lose to Donkeys, lose to Bungles. Beat Giants. Beat raiders. 6-10 or 5-11

I love Liuget, but that was just a damn horrible penalty.

And WTF is up with redzone offense???

At least L Green is going to be a stud.....

 

[BoltBacker]

BAD:

- I think you have to score more than 16 points vs a mediocre MIA defense. Out gained the Fins by almost 100 yards but that has to translate to TD's not FG's.

- Penalties and tackling killed them. Maybe that's on the coaching staff?

- Cox on defense, Clary on offense.... my eyes! It's just brutal watching either one of them play football. I think this game was more difficult than most because Grimes was also a FA CB. SD would have been SO much better this year with Grimes instead of Cox.

GOOD:

- Mathews played very well.

- Green is just too good not to be in the game. He even blocked Starks well on running play in the first half. He needs to be in the game more often. Target Gates more often when he's in the game, but have him in the game for fewer snaps. When the running game is working maybe more 2 TE sets.

- Novak kicking well.

 

[BoltBacker]

Hmmmmmmmmm, I don't read Kevin Acee on a regular basis but wasn't he bullish on Vincent Brown this summer and didn't he say Meachem probably shouldn't be in the league?

Over the past month:

Vincent Brown

target - 18

catch - 8

yards - 95

td - 0

Robert Meachem

target - 11

catch - 8

yards - 203

td - 0

Right now, with Royal dinged up, FA Seyi Ajirotutu is becoming a factor. In fact he was a bigger factor than Brown in the last game. Maybe cutting Meachem wasn't such a good idea.

 

[ryno1980]

Was listening to On the Couch podcast with Bloom and one of the guests mentioned Rivers' schedule going downhill for fantasy. Does anyone else disagree with this or am I missing something? Weeks 14-16 they get Giants, @ Broncos and then Raiders. He's definitely a top 10 QB in all those games. I realize he didn't do much against Denver in that first meeting, but I'm expecting better the 2nd time around.

 

[cstu]

Was listening to On the Couch podcast with Bloom and one of the guests mentioned Rivers' schedule going downhill for fantasy. Does anyone else disagree with this or am I missing something? Weeks 14-16 they get Giants, @ Broncos and then Raiders. He's definitely a top 10 QB in all those games. I realize he didn't do much against Denver in that first meeting, but I'm expecting better the 2nd time around.

It looks like a good schedule to me and I traded for Rivers based on it.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Ladarius Green...what's up with him? Did they just discover him last week finally ?

 

[BoltBacker]

It sounds like we all agree that the areas of need in SD are OT, OG, and CB. Luckily, it seems like there should be prospects at all those positions in the middle of the first round of the draft. So do any of you college football fans have strong feelings on these guys...

OT

Lewan(Michigan),

Kouandjio(Alabama),

Erving(Florida State),

Richardson(Tennessee),

Hurst(North Carolina)

OG

Yankey(Stanford),

Richardson(Baylor),

Martin(Notre Dame)

CB

Roby(Ohio State),

Verrett(TCU),

Ekpre-Olomu(Oregon),

Gilbert(Oklahoma State),

Purifoy(Florida),

Fuller(Virginia Tech)

Any of these players that Charger fans would like to see the team target? Avoid? Any of these guys that you think last until the middle of the 2nd round?

I think it's interesting to look at the prospects while they are still playing as opposed to focus on them at the combine.

 

[FF Ninja]

What's up with King Dunlap? He's missed several games in a row with the latest concussion. Any news on a possible return?

 

[Gr00vus]

So are we sad or happy here? Though I hate losing any particular game, particularly one that close, I think happy with the long term outlook in terms of draft position.

 

[BoltBacker]

I have been a big critic of the decision to move up in the draft to land Te'o but I have to give him a lot of credit in that last game. If he plays like that moving forward I'll be more than happy. He was soooooo close to blocking a punt when the game was still in doubt. Looked much more comfortable in pass coverage imo as well.

The defense played pretty well as a whole despite giving up 333 yards in only 23 minutes. At least half of those yards were in soft defensive formations. In particular Shareece Wright played much closer to average than I've grown accustomed to expecting. Maybe I'm just in a good mood because I saw so little of Derek Cox on the field. Having watched the Charger corners all season I assumed they must be the worst in the NFL but after this game it makes me wonder if the Giants might be willing to give up a conditional pick for Cox? One has to assume most of their CB's will be selling Xmas trees at this time next year.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Yeah, that was Te'o's best game of the season. I think the whole front seven has been playing better lately after a disappointing first half of the season.

The secondary is still poor, though it's better without Cox. It seems like Eric Weddle has missed more tackles this season than he had in his previous six combined.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Im pretty happy with the season so far.

McCoy has been a god send for Rivers. Its was so clear that the stiff Norv Offense had run its course.

The top3 draft picks all look good.

Maybe its time for Pagano to go as DC, not sure if it was McCoys decision to keep him or the F/Os but the unit just isnt very good, and I know alot of it is the players too.

Next season:

Draft Oline/CB/LB next year, maybe even another WR.

I think they might part ways with Gates and just roll LGreen at TE, either way Green needs to be on the field

Do they let Mathews walk? is he a FA?

A really good CB I dont see listed above is Dennard from Michigan State, dude is a baller

 

[BoltBacker]

A really good CB I dont see listed above is Dennard from Michigan State, dude is a baller

Yeah, I haven't been able to read much about the guy. Seems to be rated super high some places but not others. Another guy thought of highly in some places is Joyner(Florida State) but based on what I've read it seems like he may end up as more of a nickel back and SD needs starting CB's that can cover guys like Demaryius Thomas and Dwayne Bowe. At 5-8 I'm not sure he could handle that.

 

[Tau837]

Do they let Mathews walk? is he a FA?

2014 is the final year of Mathews' contract. Originally it ran through 2015, but that 6th year was voided because he played enough snaps in his rookie season.

 

[MattFancy]

So Chargers fans, what do you expect this week? I may have to rely on Rivers/Woodhead/Allen trio to get me to the playoffs.

 

[Tau837]

So, how are the Rivers doubters who posted in this thread before the season feeling about him now? Still want the team to trade or release him? You know who you are.

 

[BoltBacker]

So, how are the Rivers doubters who posted in this thread before the season feeling about him now? Still want the team to trade or release him? You know who you are.

I don't think they could trade him.

At the start of the season I said this is a team that will struggle to have a .500 record even WITH Rivers as the starting QB. Boy, is my face red now.

The problem is they aren't in a position to make any noise in a playoff game. Not this year. Not next year. Next year Rivers will be in his mid-30's and they are in the same slightly below average quagmire they have been in for years. They aren't good enough to matter and they aren't bad enough to get any sort of franchise player in the draft.

Honest question, if Michael Vick was the starting QB next season would he win 6 games? What if you payed him 1/4th the salary to win one fewer games while you used all that money to fix all the holes in this roster before turning over the keys to the next QB? Would you be willing to win 5 games instead of 6 to have a shot at fixing the rest of the roster? 4 games instead of 6?

My problem has never been with the talent level of Rivers, it's been with the salary projected to a QB in his mid 30's on a roster that is incapable of playing better than .500 football. His prime years have already been wasted. That's water under the bridge at this point.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

 

[Tau837]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

But it wouldn't. Which has been true all along. Despite that, there were multiple San Diego fans posting in the offseason all the way up to the start of the season that the team should move on from him.

If anyone thinks it would be better for San Diego to move on from Rivers, I'd like to see an explanation of how exactly they would do that in such a way as it would make the team better.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

They aren't good enough to matter and they aren't bad enough to get any sort of franchise player in the draft.

Draft position makes a small difference. If you plot quality of players on the y-axis and draft position on the x-axis, the curve definitely slopes downward, but it's not all that steep. You don't automatically end up with a fanchise player just because you draft in the top five every year.

Quarterback is the most important position. Look at teams with QB problems -- the Vikings, the Bucs, the Texans, the Raiders, the Jaguars. They'd give anything to start with a great QB and have to build around him. You don't get rid of a franchise QB to get help at other positions. It's the other way around. Getting a franchise QB is the highest priority because he makes everyone around him better, and trying to find one in the draft is a crapshoot that can take a decade.

JMHO.

 

[Gr00vus]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

Ditto. They'll probably go 1-2 to finish the season, which means they'd end up with a 7-9 record. I think I had them around 4 wins, so they'll do better than I guessed there, but from a long term perspective things are about what I thought. Actually the better than expected record is a bit of a downgrade long term as they won't get as good of a draft pick as I was expecting. The defense has been a bit worse than I expected, the offensive line a bit better. They both need work. Granted things change in a hurry in the NFL, but I don't see a championship window opening for this team in the next couple of years. I don't see the point of hanging on to Rivers if you can improve yourself by trading him.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

Ditto. They'll probably go 1-2 to finish the season, which means they'd end up with a 7-9 record. I think I had them around 4 wins, so they'll do better than I guessed there, but from a long term perspective things are about what I thought. Actually the better than expected record is a bit of a downgrade long term as they won't get as good of a draft pick as I was expecting. The defense has been a bit worse than I expected, the offensive line a bit better. They both need work. Granted things change in a hurry in the NFL, but I don't see a championship window opening for this team in the next couple of years. I don't see the point of hanging on to Rivers if you can improve yourself by trading him.

Right if they could get a bevy of picks for him (which I doubt they could) I would do it.

But they are probably stuck with him, which is fine, hes the face of the franchise now and has a bit of a re-birth.

 

[Gr00vus]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

Ditto. They'll probably go 1-2 to finish the season, which means they'd end up with a 7-9 record. I think I had them around 4 wins, so they'll do better than I guessed there, but from a long term perspective things are about what I thought. Actually the better than expected record is a bit of a downgrade long term as they won't get as good of a draft pick as I was expecting. The defense has been a bit worse than I expected, the offensive line a bit better. They both need work. Granted things change in a hurry in the NFL, but I don't see a championship window opening for this team in the next couple of years. I don't see the point of hanging on to Rivers if you can improve yourself by trading him.

Right if they could get a bevy of picks for him (which I doubt they could) I would do it.

But they are probably stuck with him, which is fine, hes the face of the franchise now and has a bit of a re-birth.

Perfect sell high opportunity IMO.

If you could find a taker, would you trade Rivers for a top 5 pick in this year's draft?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

Ditto. They'll probably go 1-2 to finish the season, which means they'd end up with a 7-9 record. I think I had them around 4 wins, so they'll do better than I guessed there, but from a long term perspective things are about what I thought. Actually the better than expected record is a bit of a downgrade long term as they won't get as good of a draft pick as I was expecting. The defense has been a bit worse than I expected, the offensive line a bit better. They both need work. Granted things change in a hurry in the NFL, but I don't see a championship window opening for this team in the next couple of years. I don't see the point of hanging on to Rivers if you can improve yourself by trading him.

Right if they could get a bevy of picks for him (which I doubt they could) I would do it.

But they are probably stuck with him, which is fine, hes the face of the franchise now and has a bit of a re-birth.

Perfect sell high opportunity IMO.

If you could find a taker, would you trade Rivers for a top 5 pick in this year's draft?

I figure someone would want rivers, if they were close to competiting for a title and didnt have a good QB already.

who is that? dont know

Would Tampa want him? Id take their pick, would Minnesota? The Rams?

It would be interesting. However you would have a glaring hole at QB then, and this class? Meh

 

[Gr00vus]

Iftradin rivers improved the team. Id do it in a heart beat.

Ditto. They'll probably go 1-2 to finish the season, which means they'd end up with a 7-9 record. I think I had them around 4 wins, so they'll do better than I guessed there, but from a long term perspective things are about what I thought. Actually the better than expected record is a bit of a downgrade long term as they won't get as good of a draft pick as I was expecting. The defense has been a bit worse than I expected, the offensive line a bit better. They both need work. Granted things change in a hurry in the NFL, but I don't see a championship window opening for this team in the next couple of years. I don't see the point of hanging on to Rivers if you can improve yourself by trading him.

Right if they could get a bevy of picks for him (which I doubt they could) I would do it.

But they are probably stuck with him, which is fine, hes the face of the franchise now and has a bit of a re-birth.

Perfect sell high opportunity IMO.

If you could find a taker, would you trade Rivers for a top 5 pick in this year's draft?

I figure someone would want rivers, if they were close to competiting for a title and didnt have a good QB already.

who is that? dont know

Would Tampa want him? Id take their pick, would Minnesota? The Rams?

It would be interesting. However you would have a glaring hole at QB then, and this class? Meh

Houston? They could possibly go to instant championship contender if they added Rivers to that roster.

 

[Tau837]

So, how are the Rivers doubters who posted in this thread before the season feeling about him now? Still want the team to trade or release him? You know who you are.

I don't think they could trade him.At the start of the season I said this is a team that will struggle to have a .500 record even WITH Rivers as the starting QB. Boy, is my face red now.

The problem is they aren't in a position to make any noise in a playoff game. Not this year. Not next year. Next year Rivers will be in his mid-30's and they are in the same slightly below average quagmire they have been in for years. They aren't good enough to matter and they aren't bad enough to get any sort of franchise player in the draft.

Honest question, if Michael Vick was the starting QB next season would he win 6 games? What if you payed him 1/4th the salary to win one fewer games while you used all that money to fix all the holes in this roster before turning over the keys to the next QB? Would you be willing to win 5 games instead of 6 to have a shot at fixing the rest of the roster? 4 games instead of 6?

My problem has never been with the talent level of Rivers, it's been with the salary projected to a QB in his mid 30's on a roster that is incapable of playing better than .500 football. His prime years have already been wasted. That's water under the bridge at this point.

So you seem to be suggesting that they could find a QB to play the next season (or two? three?) for 1/4 of Rivers' salary and they would ultimately be better off.

Here are the top 64 current QBs ranked in terms of cap hit, per spotrac (pieced this together without premium access; didn't find #59):

1. Eli Manning - $20.85M
2. Stafford - $17.82M
3. Peyton Manning - $17.5M
4. Brees - $17.4M
5. Brady - $13.8M
6. Rivers - $13.78M
7. Roethlisberger - $13.6M
8. Sanchez - $12.85M
9. Bradford - $12.6M
10. Vick - $12.2M
11. Rodgers - $12M - but set to average $19.8M over next 6 seasons
12. Romo - $11.82M - but set to average $23.5M over next 2 seasons and more than $18.5M over the next 4 seasons after that
13. Schaub - $10.75M - set to jump to $14.5M next season, and would require a $10.5M cap hit to release him
14. Cutler - $10.37M - UFA after season, state of QB market means he is likely to have a higher cap number going forward
15. Ryan - $9.6M - but set to average more than $21M over next 5 seasons
16. Alex Smith - $8.5M - UFA after 2014; wouldn't be surprised to see KC sign him to a contract extension this offseason, bumping up his cap hit
17. Flacco - $6.8M - but just received $29M signing bonus; set to average more than $23M over next 5 seasons
18. Newton - $6M - playing under rookie contract
19. Luck - $5.02M - playing under rookie contract
20. RGIII - $4.8M - playing under rookie contract
21. Henne - $4.15M - UFA after this season... THIS COULD BE YOUR GUY!!!
22. Palmer - $4M - but set to average $11M over next 2 seasons
23. Cassel - $3.7M
24. Hasselbeck - $3.5M
25. Locker - $3.43M - playing under rookie contract
26. Gabbert - $3.28M - playing under rookie contract
27. Shaun Hill - $3.25M
28. Tannehill - $2.88M - playing under rookie contract
29. Ponder - $2.78M - playing under rookie contract
30. Kolb - $2.5M
31. Matt Moore - $2.5M
32. Fitzpatrick - $2.38M
33. Freeman - $2M
34. Orton - $1.97M
35. Weeden - $1.84M - playing under rookie contract
36. Daniel - $1.8M
37. Whitehurst - $1.8M
38. Stanton - $1.67M
39. Manuel - $1.62M - playing under rookie contract
40. Campbell - $1.5M
41. Colt McCoy - $1.45M - playing under rookie contract
42. Dalton - $1.422M - playing under rookie contract
43. Kaepernick - $1.4M - playing under rookie contract
44. Gradkowski - $1.28M
45. Geno Smith - $913K - playing under rookie contract
46. Josh Johnson - $909K
47. Tarvaris Jackson - $840K
48. Mallett - $804K -
49. ?
50. Osweiler - $799K - playing under rookie contract
51. Pryor - $742K - playing under rookie contract
52. Hoyer - $715K
53. Wilson - $682K - playing under rookie contract
54. Foles - $656K - playing under rookie contract
55. Painter - $630K
56. Orlovsky - $620K
57. Yates - $601K - playing under rookie contract
58. Cousins - $598K - playing under rookie contract
59. ?
60. Clemens - $585K
61. Tyrod Taylor - $581K - playing under rookie contract
62. Josh McCown - $580K - UFA after season, but 34 years old
63. Grossman - $575K
64. Glennon - $564K - playing under rookie contract

Not many attractive options available at the salary you are suggesting, other than rookies. But the rookies you would want from this list were generally drafted with early round picks. Does it make sense for the Chargers to draft a rookie QB with a high pick to replace Rivers? I don't think so.

IMO this information makes Rivers look more attractive at his salary for the next three seasons.

ETA: This list also shows that the rookie QB success rate isn't necessarily as good as it might have seemed in recent years, unless you use a (very) early first round pick to draft them.

ETA2: Seriously, some of you who advocate moving on from Rivers, lay out a few scenarios where it makes sense, with some specifics. Like what QB you'd choose to replace him and how you would allocate the cap savings.

 

[Tau837]

Quarterback is the most important position. Look at teams with QB problems -- the Vikings, the Bucs, the Texans, the Raiders, the Jaguars. They'd give anything to start with a great QB and have to build around him. You don't get rid of a franchise QB to get help at other positions. It's the other way around. Getting a franchise QB is the highest priority because he makes everyone around him better, and trying to find one in the draft is a crapshoot that can take a decade.