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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (1 Viewer)

Non-ESPN media is going to be their usual unreliable self with this stuff.

I listened to WFAN today (Joe and Evan) an there still was plenty of ignorance ("they can sub guys back in right?") on many of the basics. It dumbfounds me how people paid to cover sports don't take craft seriously enough to get the rudimentary aspects of major events - even if they are in sports that they have low interest in. It's just good practice.

Side note - wow there is a butt-load of green in the seats for Mexico today.

Other side note - looked Cameroon came to play? Saw the shot the Cameroon dude took at Neymar and after Neymar's goal I thought the Lions were gonna get run. But I guess not.

Brazil is out if the Lions upset them and the other game is a tie :unsure:

Never mind...there's the 2nd for Neymar.

-QG

 
TheIronSheik said:
Here's a question that I'm at a loss for:

Why don't they shoot more? This may seem silly, but these guys are awesome. On free kicks, they bend it around people and hit the top right corner. So why not take that shot more often?

My first thought was that maybe the path is blocked and it's hard to see that from an overhead view. But is it blocked all of the time? The goal is huge. Put that ball top corner, either side, no way a goalie can get there in time, right?
Click to expand...
most shots are low percentage- GKs are huge and fast. Better to set up a higher percentage shot most of the time.

 
El Floppo said:
TheIronSheik said:
Here's a question that I'm at a loss for:

Why don't they shoot more? This may seem silly, but these guys are awesome. On free kicks, they bend it around people and hit the top right corner. So why not take that shot more often?

My first thought was that maybe the path is blocked and it's hard to see that from an overhead view. But is it blocked all of the time? The goal is huge. Put that ball top corner, either side, no way a goalie can get there in time, right?
Click to expand...
most shots are low percentage- GKs are huge and fast. Better to set up a higher percentage shot most of the time.
Click to expand...
Good example just now in the Brazil game. Shot from distance with a pretty clear look (I think from Oscar?), about 25 yards out, well placed to the near-bottom corner, diving (but pretty routine for a WC goalie) save knocks it out for a corner.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Here's a question that I'm at a loss for:

Why don't they shoot more? This may seem silly, but these guys are awesome. On free kicks, they bend it around people and hit the top right corner. So why not take that shot more often?

My first thought was that maybe the path is blocked and it's hard to see that from an overhead view. But is it blocked all of the time? The goal is huge. Put that ball top corner, either side, no way a goalie can get there in time, right?
Click to expand...
It is much harder than it looks to get a hard shot on target when the ball is moving, defenders are moving and you are moving.

In many ways getting a hard shot off - which you need from distance - is like squaring a bat onto a ball - if you don't hit it square, the ball will take off wide or high - the margin for error is very small the further you get away from goal.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Here's a question that I'm at a loss for:

Why don't they shoot more? This may seem silly, but these guys are awesome. On free kicks, they bend it around people and hit the top right corner. So why not take that shot more often?

My first thought was that maybe the path is blocked and it's hard to see that from an overhead view. But is it blocked all of the time? The goal is huge. Put that ball top corner, either side, no way a goalie can get there in time, right?
Click to expand...
I would look at the Ghana-USA game as an example. Ghana took a ton of shots, but a large number of them were wild long shots from well outside. They are just too low-percentage (and missing them breaks the pressure and gives the opponent a chance to take a little time and gather themselves together).

It'd be like an NFL team only throwing deep balls down the field every play. It may seem exciting and occasionally it is, but most of the time you're getting nowhere.

-QG

 
Wow Rafa yellow card for Mexico after what looked like a pretty obvious handball by Croatia on the corner was ignored and led to a Croatia fast break. Bad luck for Mexico.

I can't stand Mexico but that handball missed call was ridiculously bad.

-QG

 
Awesome sequence by Dani: Kicks a ball out that was going to harmlessly bounce out for a corner, then spend time apologizing to whomever he kicked it towards while Cameroon takes a short corner that he has to run out to cover.

 
Sinn Fein said:
TheIronSheik said:
Christo said:
General Malaise said:
roadkill1292 said:
wdcrob said:
Errr... I assume it's trolling.

No one is really this stupid, right? :oldunsure:
Click to expand...
I think it's pretty courageous to have such a strong opinion with little knowledge of the subject at hand. We have a lot of brave newcomers in this thread.
Click to expand...
I don't get it....do soccer fans in this country want Americans to embrace the sport or just leave it the hell alone? Mixed messages being sent. Complain that soccer is the red headed step child here for decades, then complain when newcomers chime in with their thoughts. There's a learning curve for new fans to any sport. Labeling observations of the new followers as 'ignorant' or calling their criticisms 'invalid' because they aren't sophisticated fans does not do the sport of soccer any favors here.
Click to expand...
This is the exact same thing women have done. They #####ed for years about joining the boys' club. But as soon as they get in they start #####ing about how it should be changed. We're talkin about a game that has slowly evolved over 100 years. Take a little time to appreciate it before insisting that it has to be changed.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to change it. But I can honestly tell you that (maybe not so much here, but around friends who are soccer fans) any time I ask a question, I get a snooty attitude. And if I make an observation, I've been told I don't know what I'm talking about and I should really just listen to their opinions.

It's rather odd.
Click to expand...
I think thats a valid criticism - I am sure I have been guilty from time to time.

I guess my response would be along the lines of - why should the sport change to appease American audiences? Not in a snarky way, but more in realization that the sport in its current iteration has billions of fans across the globe. Not that everyone else is right so you must be wrong, but more along the lines that there is enough appreciation for the current game there is so little impetus to change.

FIFA doesn't really care how Americans (or any other group) view the sport, so long as the world-wide audience continues to grow.

So, rather than talk about changes that would make you (generically) happy, you're better off deciding if you like it as is, or not. Because the sport is not going to change to suit American audiences.

Its ok if you don't like it though - I am not that snooty ;) Its an acquired taste.
Click to expand...
But see how I started off with I'm not asking for changes. I get that that would get old after a while for fans hearing that. But I'm usually just asking simple questions to help fill in holes in my knowledge. Hell, last night I was talking about how I loved the way that the US was playing so gritty and like a true contender and I was scolded because I didn't know what a true contender really looked like until I watched some Euro league stuff (or whatever she was saying.)

Sometimes I get the feeling that a lot of US fans like being able to say that they are fans when others aren't. And they see the WC as a amateur hour for us part time fans of the game. Just my opinion. And I don't know if I've encountered anyone on here like that. That's why I ask all my questions here. It's like a safe zone.

 
now THAT was a legit foul when touching the keeper!

although Croatia got away with a clear handball off the corner minutes before. game is fast and furious

 
Christo said:
General Malaise said:
roadkill1292 said:
wdcrob said:
Errr... I assume it's trolling.

No one is really this stupid, right? :oldunsure:
Click to expand...
I think it's pretty courageous to have such a strong opinion with little knowledge of the subject at hand. We have a lot of brave newcomers in this thread.
Click to expand...
I don't get it....do soccer fans in this country want Americans to embrace the sport or just leave it the hell alone? Mixed messages being sent. Complain that soccer is the red headed step child here for decades, then complain when newcomers chime in with their thoughts. There's a learning curve for new fans to any sport. Labeling observations of the new followers as 'ignorant' or calling their criticisms 'invalid' because they aren't sophisticated fans does not do the sport of soccer any favors here.
Click to expand...
This is the exact same thing women have done. They #####ed for years about joining the boys' club. But as soon as they get in they start #####ing about how it should be changed. We're talkin about a game that has slowly evolved over 100 years. Take a little time to appreciate it and actually understand what's going on before insisting that it has to be changed.
Click to expand...
Glad they haven't done anything to ruin the integrity of the game over the last 100 years like change the offsides rule or goalkeepers use of hands otherwise you would really be upset.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think thats a valid criticism - I am sure I have been guilty from time to time.

I guess my response would be along the lines of - why should the sport change to appease American audiences? Not in a snarky way, but more in realization that the sport in its current iteration has billions of fans across the globe. Not that everyone else is right so you must be wrong, but more along the lines that there is enough appreciation for the current game there is so little impetus to change.

FIFA doesn't really care how Americans (or any other group) view the sport, so long as the world-wide audience continues to grow.

So, rather than talk about changes that would make you (generically) happy, you're better off deciding if you like it as is, or not. Because the sport is not going to change to suit American audiences.

Its ok if you don't like it though - I am not that snooty ;) Its an acquired taste.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of this mindset just comes from watching American sports. Our leagues are very open to rule changes, and don't care much about uniformity. Pro and college sports have different rules. MLB has one league with a DH and one without. The NBA has different rules than FIBA, so why shouldn't the MLS say to heck with FIFA and make its own U.S.-friendly rules?

But the FIFA mindset is that what makes soccer so popular worldwide is its uniformity. The laws of the game are the laws of the game everywhere. And that makes it easy for soccer to have such diversity of international and club competitions, because we're all playing the same game.

 
Christo said:
Anarchy99 said:
I don't know if this has been addressed already, but . . .

Back when I played soccer in high school a zillion years ago, when we were trying to hold on to win at the end we played 11 guys on defense and whenever we got possession of the ball we would kick it as far downfield as we could and would not even bother to run after it. If needed, we were also coached to just keep kicking the ball out of bounds.

Are there rules against doing stuff like that in the World Cup? Would players be given yellow cards for intentionally delaying the game or unsportsmanlike conduct? I could understand if they didn't want them kicking the ball out of bounds, but clearing the ball the length of the field would keep the ball in play and keep the clock running.
Click to expand...
Your coaches did that because they didn't trust anyone to hang onto the ball. In that situation possession is critical. Taking it to the corners like Wondo and Yedlin did is exactly what you want to do if you have players that can dribble the ball.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it make more sense to just leave 7 or 8 guys in and around the box rather than have to send them all running back 30 yards to try to stop the last possession for Portugal? The only way they could lose is if they let people get behind them . . . which is exactly how things played out.

 
Ok, I'll start off by saying that I feel no obligation to be an ambassador for the sport to help grow the game. For one thing, the sport is going to grow or not on its own merits. I won't have anything to do with it. For another, I don't know about anyone else, but I learned about football, basketball, baseball, etc. by watching it, playing it, and reading about it to the extent I was interested. Not by asking fans on the internet (or in other places) questions. I don't think an annoyance with goofy questions is limited just to soccer. I don't enjoy watching the NFL with my grandmother for the same reason.

We're on the internet, and we're talking about sports. People are going to call you an idiot. They're going to do that whether you profess to be a newbie or a mega-fan. Go to any large soccer website and you'll find that all the posters there think everyone else is an idiot. That's the internet. Opinions, like #######s, are innumerable.

Finally, it actually MAY be you. Just speaking personally, I find a correlation between people I find to be insufferable, or clueless, or just often wrong in other threads and those who strike me the same way in soccer threads (not you, GM!). It's not one to one, but it's there. So if you tend to find that people find your "honest questions" tiresome in other threads also, you might seriously ask yourself whether your questions come across as genuine or whether they come across as coy shtick.

 
Spartans Rule said:
Sinn Fein said:
I think thats a valid criticism - I am sure I have been guilty from time to time.

I guess my response would be along the lines of - why should the sport change to appease American audiences? Not in a snarky way, but more in realization that the sport in its current iteration has billions of fans across the globe. Not that everyone else is right so you must be wrong, but more along the lines that there is enough appreciation for the current game there is so little impetus to change.

FIFA doesn't really care how Americans (or any other group) view the sport, so long as the world-wide audience continues to grow.

So, rather than talk about changes that would make you (generically) happy, you're better off deciding if you like it as is, or not. Because the sport is not going to change to suit American audiences.

Its ok if you don't like it though - I am not that snooty ;) Its an acquired taste.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of this mindset just comes from watching American sports. Our leagues are very open to rule changes, and don't care much about uniformity. Pro and college sports have different rules. MLB has one league with a DH and one without. The NBA has different rules than FIBA, so why shouldn't the MLS say to heck with FIFA and make its own U.S.-friendly rules?

But the FIFA mindset is that what makes soccer so popular worldwide is its uniformity. The laws of the game are the laws of the game everywhere. And that makes it easy for soccer to have such diversity of international and club competitions, because we're all playing the same game.
Click to expand...
I didn't like the countdown clock when MLS experimented with it but I thought the original shootout format had some potential.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Christo said:
General Malaise said:
roadkill1292 said:
wdcrob said:
Errr... I assume it's trolling.

No one is really this stupid, right? :oldunsure:
Click to expand...
I think it's pretty courageous to have such a strong opinion with little knowledge of the subject at hand. We have a lot of brave newcomers in this thread.
Click to expand...
I don't get it....do soccer fans in this country want Americans to embrace the sport or just leave it the hell alone? Mixed messages being sent. Complain that soccer is the red headed step child here for decades, then complain when newcomers chime in with their thoughts. There's a learning curve for new fans to any sport. Labeling observations of the new followers as 'ignorant' or calling their criticisms 'invalid' because they aren't sophisticated fans does not do the sport of soccer any favors here.
Click to expand...
This is the exact same thing women have done. They #####ed for years about joining the boys' club. But as soon as they get in they start #####ing about how it should be changed. We're talkin about a game that has slowly evolved over 100 years. Take a little time to appreciate it before insisting that it has to be changed.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to change it. But I can honestly tell you that (maybe not so much here, but around friends who are soccer fans) any time I ask a question, I get a snooty attitude. And if I make an observation, I've been told I don't know what I'm talking about and I should really just listen to their opinions.

It's rather odd.
Click to expand...
Soccer-head here. You are right. Many grizzled Soccer fans (on this board as well as in real life) can be very opinionated and impatient. Kind of speaking from both sides of our mouth - we want the sport to be popular but are not willing to let others ramp up at their own pace and embrace in their own way.

On the other hand I personally welcome all your innane, trollish, knucklehead comments and wont scorn you or pass judgement :)

JJ of course. :)

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Ok, I'll start off by saying that I feel no obligation to be an ambassador for the sport to help grow the game. For one thing, the sport is going to grow or not on its own merits. I won't have anything to do with it. For another, I don't know about anyone else, but I learned about football, basketball, baseball, etc. by watching it, playing it, and reading about it to the extent I was interested. Not by asking fans on the internet (or in other places) questions. I don't think an annoyance with goofy questions is limited just to soccer. I don't enjoy watching the NFL with my grandmother for the same reason.

We're on the internet, and we're talking about sports. People are going to call you an idiot. They're going to do that whether you profess to be a newbie or a mega-fan. Go to any large soccer website and you'll find that all the posters there think everyone else is an idiot. That's the internet. Opinions, like #######s, are innumerable.

Finally, it actually MAY be you. Just speaking personally, I find a correlation between people I find to be insufferable, or clueless, or just often wrong in other threads and those who strike me the same way in soccer threads (not you, GM!). It's not one to one, but it's there. So if you tend to find that people find your "honest questions" tiresome in other threads also, you might seriously ask yourself whether your questions come across as genuine or whether they come across as coy shtick.
Click to expand...
Oh. OK. I didn't realize you were still upset with me.

 
El Floppo said:
Sinn Fein said:
Question for Andy - but really anyone who follows MLS - do you think playing in MLS hurts players like Bradley, and other midfielders, and even defenders?

I guess where I am going with this, is how much time do they typically have on the ball in MLS? My suspicion is, relative to the European leagues, MLS players face less pressure, and have more time to make decisions. I wonder how that impacts his/their preparation to play against internationals. It seems that the lack of reps in the high pressure environment makes it more difficult to make those plays in WC games.

I think this is probably a bigger impact, if at all, on players likely to handle the ball more frequently - Bradley, Beckerman, and both center backs.
Click to expand...
MLS tends to be pretty fast, high-pressure.

The major difference is in quality of players pressing.

The commonly stated problem with players coming back to MLS is that they're surrounded by good professionals, not world class professionals. The day-in, day-out training and playing with and against the best in the world that the top 4 leagues sees, makes the players better. Of course, if they're not getting PT, that doesn't hold up as much.
Click to expand...
This is how I would have answered this. Nicely said Floppo. My mind has not really changed much over the last few years. If you can find steady minutes in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe, your development there is likely to be better than in MLS.

If you are not seeing steady minutes or are not in one of the top 5 leagues, I don't see the development curve being much different than MLS (or Liga MX for that matter).

I think the MLS players have looked good this WC. Zusi, Dempsey, Besler, and Beckerman have all performed up to or beyond expectations IMO. I think even Yedlin in a high pressure situation did well yesterday.

One could also argue that Costa Ricas best defender has been the Columbus Crew's Giancarlo Gonzalez. Tim Cahill might have scored the best goal in the tournament so far.

Bradley has not played even close to expectations (mine were high) but then again he has only been in MLS for 2 months so I doubt the league has had any affect one way or another on him. Cameron has also not had a great WC but I don't blame the EPL for that either.

 
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