shader
Footballguy
You can't use college stats to try and prove how good a QB is going to be at the next level.
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*** Official 2015 College Football Thread *** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Vince Young says hi.
Moe.
Footballguy
That would be his point.
Joe T
Footballguy
I said he's more like Tebow than Russell Wilson. Of course, people here are not great readers.
Joe T
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Maybe he wants to hold the Clemson record for losses to Carolina.
Good stuff.
That's the point.
Slider6
Footballguy
Which is why he's staying at Clemson for another year.
Slider6
Footballguy
I think it's very stupid for anyone who is a Top 10 pick to stay for their Senior season.
I wouldn't stay if I had anywhere near a first day grade. Not worth the risk.
Abraham
Footballguy
You do realize these guys get huge insurance policies when they stick around?
Slider6
Footballguy
Nowhere near the size of the contract they would get as a 1st round draft pick. And only payable if they never play again.
Link?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I don't see Alabama on Philadelphia's 2013 schedule, so I like it a lot.
fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
Mutual interest with Philly and B. Kelly. 
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Interesting - When Ohio State guard Evan Turner decided not to enter this year's NBA draft and return to Columbus for his junior season, Turner's former club coach, Mike Mullins, made only one request: Buy an insurance policy. "He said if I didn't have one, he'd kill me," Turner recalled.So about a month ago, Turner bought a policy through a program run by the NCAA that will pay out should he suffer a career-ending injury and never make it to the NBA. That helped the likely 2010 first-rounder eliminate any nagging worries as he prepares to play for Team USA in the upcoming World University Games and lead the Buckeyes to the NCAA tournament for the second consecutive season. "It's just a little comfort," Turner said.These days, almost every collegiate player with a chance to be drafted into the NBA or NFL seeks that comfort in the form of a policy either through the NCAA program or through a private insurance agent. Tyler Hansbrough, who will be drafted into the NBA on Thursday, was covered by such a policy every minute of his North Carolina career. Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, the football analogue to Hansbrough right down to the "Where will he fit in the pros" questions, bought a policy after deciding to return for his senior season. In a conversation about coverage that had nothing to do with a two-deep zone, Gators coach Urban Meyer urged Tebow to get the policy. Tebow himself hasn't given it another thought, because he never intends to collect. "Do you know how often that happens?" the 2007 Heisman Trophy winner asked after Florida's spring game. "Very rarely."Eleven years ago, it happened less than 50 yards from where Tebow stood. On the first play from scrimmage against LSU on Oct. 10, 1998, a gruesome knee injury ended Florida senior defensive tackle Ed Chester's career. Fortunately for Chester, he had bought an insurance policy from Gainesville agent Keith Lerner after deciding against entering the 1998 NFL draft. Lloyd's of London, the venerable firm that insured Bruce Springsteen's voice and Angie Dickinson's legs, underwrote the policy. Thirteen months later, Chester walked out of Lerner's office with a $1 million check. Chester never played in the NFL, but if he handled his finances correctly, he never had to worry about money again.STAPLES: Policy gave Chester life after career endedMost players in their prime refuse to consider a career-ending injury, but those who turned down NFL millions to return to college for the 2009 season knew an insurance policy was a must. Whether they got it through an NCAA program for exceptional players or through a private agent, few, if any, players who expect to be taken in the early rounds of the 2010 draft haven't already bought a policy."I'm not sure there is anybody who is drafted on the first day that doesn't have an insurance policy," said Lerner, who writes 50-60 policies a year just like the one he wrote for Chester. "It's that big of a business."It wasn't so big in 1992 when Lerner wrote a policy for Miami quarterback Gino Toretta. The $1 million Lloyd's policy Georgia back Herschel Walker took out in August 1981 made national news, but few other players had thought to protect themselves in the case of a career-ending injury. Through the '90s, business at Lerner's firm, Total Planning, steadily increased. By the time he wrote Miami tailback Willis McGahee's policy hours before McGahee suffered a severe knee injury in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl, Lerner was writing policies for dozens of potential draftees each year. "Insuring college athletes had been done very sporadically," said Lerner, who opened Total Planning in 1989 with the hope of insuring professional athletes. "The part that I kind of created was assembling the information so insurance underwriters can better determine who is going to be drafted in the first round, second round, third round, because we attach a number to each round."By the time Chester took out his policy, many potential first-rounders purchased insurance either through the NCAA -- which started its program in 1990 -- or through private agents shortly before their final year of college. Now, Lerner said, some of the best players will buy insurance the spring after their freshman season. "Typically, that would be a sophomore who is a very highly ranked player who is probably going to leave after his junior year," said Lerner, who insured several 2009 first-rounders, including a top-five pick. "So he takes out a policy for two years."Three 2009 first-rounders, Northern Illinois defensive end Larry English, Tennessee defensive end Robert Ayers and Rutgers receiver Kenny Britt, bought policies ranging from $1 million-$3 million from New York-based agent Rich "Big Daddy" Salgado. The most common buyers of policies are players who turned down a chance to go pro (rising seniors and redshirt juniors) or players who plan to turn pro as soon as the NFL permits (rising juniors and redshirt sophomores). Lerner said players used to buy their policies prior to preseason practice. Now, they buy them in January or February to cover them during spring practice.One high-profile player who chose to return to school this year had an advantage. His father makes his living selling insurance. Kent Bradford, reigning Heisman Trophy winner Sam Bradford's father, is the president of Bradford-Irwin Insurance, an independent agency in Oklahoma City. The elder Bradford specializes in commercial insurance, but his knowledge of the business proved invaluable when researching policies for his son after Sam chose to return to Oklahoma for his redshirt junior season.Citing client confidentiality, Kent Bradford declined to comment on whether Sam had bought a policy, but he did offer a few tips for players who find themselves in a similar situation. Bradford suggested players disclose every previous injury, no matter how minor, because companies will void policies if an earlier injury wasn't disclosed. Bradford also suggested players make sure they understand completely what must happen between an injury and a payout. "I would highly recommend the player or the player's representative thoroughly understand the exclusions, coverage triggers, rehab requirements, and waiting periods before purchasing the coverage," Bradford wrote in an e-mail. "With today's medical technology, there are very few injuries that result in a player never being able to play again."Bradford considers a policy a "business expense" for a player who intends to play football for a living. Just how costly that expense is depends on where the player buys his policy and how much protection he needs.Using a private agent, a player can expect to pay $9,000-$10,000 per $1 million of coverage, Lerner said. In other words, a $5 million policy would cost $50,000. Juanita Sheely, the NCAA's assistant director for travel and insurance, said a $5 million policy through the NCAA's Exceptional Student-Athlete Disability Insurance Program would cost between $25,000 and $28,000. "It's a benefit for the student-athlete," Sheely said, explaining the lower premium. "It's not a profit center for the NCAA." Despite that discount, however, some players still prefer working with private agents. The $5 million policy is the maximum the NCAA offers, and most potential first-rounders want more coverage. This year, Lerner's firm wrote policies for as much as $15 million. Though Lerner never reached that number, he did write some eight-figure policies. Lerner said he typically determines policy amounts by using the contracts of the previous season's draftees to calculate the amount of guaranteed money a player might expect to receive after taxes. That means Lerner's maximum probably will increase soon. Former Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford, the No. 1 pick in this year's NFL draft, received a reported $41.7 million in guaranteed money from the Lions. Assuming Stafford is taxed at the federal maximum of 39 percent and the Michigan rate of 4.35 percent, Stafford still would receive more than $23.6 million after taxes.Lerner also said buying a policy through a private agent allows players an easier transition to professional disability insurance. "As soon as his college policy ends, we can move him into a pro policy," Lerner said. "If there's ever a question come claim time, he was with the same company college and pro. So there's a history, and there's no gap in coverage. And that's key."STAPLES: From A to B: The policy processStill, buying a policy through the NCAA might be a better option for some. The NCAA offers policies to athletes in football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and hockey. Sheely said football players comprise 80 percent of the 100-120 athletes who buy policies every year. By obtaining a policy through the NCAA, those athletes eliminate one potentially tricky step in the process.For policies purchased through the NCAA or through private agents, the premium must be paid immediately. Since most players' families don't have $20,000-$100,000 lying around, they must secure a loan to pay the premium. After Sheely's staff evaluates a player to ensure he is draftable and places him in the program, that player is guaranteed a loan through U.S. Bank to pay his premium. Since the terms of the loan are approved by the NCAA, the player doesn't risk his eligibility. Players who secure their own loans cannot accept any perks (lower interest rates, waiving of points) that wouldn't be available to the average bank customer. Otherwise, they would run afoul of the NCAA's extra benefits rule.In most cases, the balance of the loan is due either after the policy pays out or after the player signs his first contract. That's why Sheely warns borderline players to make sure they want to play professional football before they apply for the loan. She said one player a few years ago was a low-round draft choice and opted to go to graduate school. That left him with no income and a fat bill to cover the loan that paid his premium.Sheely also works hard to ensure players understand the policy pays out only in the event of a catastrophic, career-ending injury. "Just having an injury that affects your draft status doesn't trigger a payment," Sheely said.In his research, however, Bradford found policies that cover such losses. Anyone who has bought a new car should be familiar with the concept of gap insurance. In the automotive world, the buyer pays an extra fee so that, in the event of a collision that totals the car, the insurance company will pay the full amount owed on the car instead of market value, which could be significantly lower. The concept is similar in football. Such policies -- which Lerner said are available only to players projected near the top of the first round -- will cover the gap between expected guaranteed money and actual guaranteed money should, for example, an offensive tackle tear his ACL during his senior year and fall into the third round. But because such injuries are far more common than career-enders, there's a significantly higher premium (up to 80-90 percent more, Bradford said) for gap coverage.Anyone who has bought a homeowner's insurance policy knows underwriters can be persnickety about the exact value of insured items. The same concept applies in football, so agents such as Lerner must be Mel Kiper-esque in their draft projections. They don't want to overcharge their clients for coverage they don't need, and they don't want to upset the underwriters, whose antennae go up when they believe they've paid out more than they should have. "If I write a $5 million policy on somebody, that guy better be a first rounder," Lerner said. "That's very important to me."What's most important to Lerner, however, is knowing most of his clients haven't seen a dime back from his policies. Since 1989, his policies have paid out only twice, to Chester and to a hockey player. Sheely said that since 1990, only about a dozen NCAA-backed policies have paid out. The rest of the players advanced to the pros, hopefully enjoying more peace of mind during their final seasons in college. "I hope the player never collects," Lerner said. "I would rather see him playing on Sunday."
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
derek245583
Footballguy
It is logging #'s all the time as far as I can tell.Every time I turn the TV on, I have to punch in who is watching. (Just 5 buttong on mine with my wife and I and 3 kids...then I can add guests...gender and age) As things develop and people leave, you just hit a button and it takes them off the list of people watching. Every 40 minutes it flashes basically just asking if everyone is still there watching.FTR, I watched the whole game and my two year old watched the first half...yelled 'Roll Tide' everytime I said TOUCHDOWN
timschochet
Footballguy
Believe me when I say this. As a UCLA fan, I would KILL to have a "rebuilding year for LSU" type of defense. I'll gladly trade you all of our upperclassmen for all of your freshmen.
Thankfully, you are not Jim Mora.Are you sure you follow UCLA football? You might want to take a look at the returning upperclassmen on defense. I'll take Owa, Barr, Marsh (formerly an LSU commit, by the way), Epenesa, Kendricks, Zumwalt, McDonald, et al., over any group of freshmen on any team in the country.
I'm guessing you are kidding, right?
timschochet
Footballguy
I knew you were gonna come in. I'm being a little fecitious, sure. Only a little though. As good as the guys are that you mentioned in spots, I doubt LSU would have allowed Baylor to run over them. Somehow teams like LSU are just so much more physical on the field.
facetious
derek245583
Footballguy
So...if BK goes to the Eagles, who is on the list to coach Notre Dame?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
@SIPeteThamel A Notre Dame source tells me that the expected result of Kelly's NFL flirtation is a raise and an extension.
Thamel is somewhat of a mouth breather. So grain of salt, and all that.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
It doesn't make sense if he actually wants an NFL job either.'gump said:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
what would be interesting is if there is any difference between the NFL playing career length of guys coming out early vs full time college guys.
Premier
Footballguy
@DanWetzel: Notre Dame still No. 1 in one BCS computer http://t.co/H1VJGaMe By Alabama historical standards, that's a claimed national title
shader
Footballguy
Really low blow. Untrue too
Really? You would take a group, including an all-american LB and the nation's leading sack leader (Barr), that finished 22nd in the country in tackles for loss, 8th in sacks, 18th in third down conversion defense and 9th in turnovers created and dump them for a group of freshmen that didn't really even play? I will bet that each of the above players plays in the NFL and is a first day draft pick. If you can get 7 guys from a given class drafted in the NFL on defense that is incredible. I thought you were totally joking, but that is an absurd take.UCLA was inconsistent on defense for sure, which is to be expected since the entire coaching staff on that side of the ball was brand new with a completely different system, but they were much better than previous years in the above categories. They go man on the corners and it caused them to give up some big plays. Not ideal, but I'm guessing they'll get much better.
And, it's not like UCLA got run over by the Little Sisters of the Poor. Baylor, entering the bowl game, was 1st in Total Offense and 14th in Rushing Offense in the country. And, LSU wasn't exactly a juggernaut on defense down the stretch. LSU gave up 445 yards to Clemson. They gave up 462 yards to a terrible Arkansas team the game before Clemson. They gave up 463 yards and 147 yards rushing to Ole Miss two games before they played Clemson. Even good to great defenses have bad performances.I'm not saying UCLA was some great defense, although I think, outside of a couple performances, they were a good defense that was great at getting into the backfield of their opponents, but saying you'd junk the entire defense returning most of its starters (many of which were highly-rated and came on the second half of the season) for a bunch of freshmen that you know nothing about is hysterical.
psychobillies
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Does a player's career extend for two years (on average) if he comes out two years early or is the length of career finite (on average) regardless of the starting point?This would be tough to figure out as I would guess it would be skewed by the players who got horrible advice, left early and didn't even get drafted.
GoFishTN
Footballguy
Almost 100% true.
Premier
Footballguy
What is untrue?
GeauxTigers
Footballguy
The only reason a player should stay in college is if it will raise his draft stock. Maybe he had a bad year or the talent in his position is much better coming out that year.
GeauxTigers
Footballguy
Not many seniors played much for LSU this year. It's not as bad as it seems. The entire offense will be back and the young guys on defense got alot of experience this year. The biggest hit will be depth at the DE position. DT, LBs and DBs will be deep.
GeauxTigers
Footballguy
Probably the best hit I've ever seen. #### was RIDICULOUS! What made it even better was the play right before it. Michigan faked a punt and the guy got tackled very close to the first down. The refs measured with the sticks and the ball was CLEARLY behind the sticks but Michigan got the 1st down anyway. The whole team and Spurrier was pissed off and yelling. Next play....Clowney said "That's our ball #####!!!"
GeauxTigers
Footballguy
He did make some pretty good throws against LSU, especially late in the game during crunch time.
GeauxTigers
Footballguy
Thanks but I'll pass
UCLA's schedule is going to be pretty difficult:8/31: Nevada9/14: @Nebraska9/21: New Mexico St.10/3: @Utah10/12: Cal10/19: @Stanford10/26: @Oregon11/2: Colorado11/9: @Arizona11/15: Washington11/23: Arizona St.11/30: @Southern Cal12/7: @Oregon (Pac-12 Title Game)Aside from possibly the UW game, the tough games are all on the road. Going to Stanford and to Oregon in back to back weeks is a pretty tough break.
gump
Footballguy
Saw that...great fit and happy for Deshea. He was a stud, and SP loves him from everything I've ever heard.Hey Gump, looks like Deshea Townsend is set to become out new DB coach. Thats got to be a nice pickup for us...gets us into the South Panola Recruiting hotbed as well.
