Yeah but if the wind didn't blow and the receivers didn't fall down think about how great those stats would look!!
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
**Official** 2015 Washington Redskins Thread YOU LIKE THAT! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sebowski
- Start date
MattFancy
Footballguy
Ah you're right, gonna have to go back and look at games where there was less than 5mph breeze going through the stadium.
Boy does Cutler have an out now! "Guys I play in the Windy City, of course I'm going to throw INTs!"
Sebowski
Footballguy
Meanwhile... in Cincinnati...
Ryan Clark was on ESPN talking abkut why Dalton is olaying so well. He said when used to prepare for him they knew if they shut down his primary read he couldn't beat you. Now Dalton is spraying the ball around. Locking in to one WR sounds awfully familiar.
I'm with you MF. I can't stand the "best QB to evaluate" BS. What does that even mean? It'sjust something to say. Doesn't mean anything. "I'd like to see how well Garcon and Crowder track back amd tackle in INTs, so Cousins gives us the best chance to do that".
Ryan Clark was on ESPN talking abkut why Dalton is olaying so well. He said when used to prepare for him they knew if they shut down his primary read he couldn't beat you. Now Dalton is spraying the ball around. Locking in to one WR sounds awfully familiar.
I'm with you MF. I can't stand the "best QB to evaluate" BS. What does that even mean? It'sjust something to say. Doesn't mean anything. "I'd like to see how well Garcon and Crowder track back amd tackle in INTs, so Cousins gives us the best chance to do that".
Litchensteiger and Williams have missed one game. You can blame one game on their injuries, but not the past four.dhockster said:
Shaun Lauvao was injured in the first of those 4 games. Is that the critical injury that derailed the Redskins' power running game?
I agree that injuries play a role. I also believe every team has injuries and the Redskin have had more than their share. But the running game has disappears. And it started well before Litchensteiger's and Williams' injuries.
dgreen
Footballguy
Just about everyone assumed Miami and St Louis would have really good defenses, especially on the DL. So, we then naturally assumed our rushing attack was super awesome when we ran with ease those first two games. The problem may not be that the run game has regressed as much as it could just be that we've faced tougher competition and our assumptions about the Dolphins and Rams were wrong.. Jets, Falcons, Eagles, and Giants have all shown to be good against the run so far this season. Miami and St. Louis, not as much.
Because it's Gruden's guy. The new GM is evaluating the Head Coach and the players he thinks fits in his system. It's Scot McC evaluating whether or not Gruden has a job moving forward.
ETA: I'm saying the GM is evaluating the Head Coach, not necessarily the players.
Last edited by a moderator:
MattFancy
Footballguy
I think the running game is disappearing because teams know that's all we can do. Cousins isn't very good at throwing outside the numbers, so why not crowd the LOS and make Cousins have to make real throws? Right now, we have no answer for it.
Plus, hard to get the power run game going when we abandon the run so quickly now.
Against Atlanta, a game in which we were either leading or trailing by no more than 1 score all game, we ran the ball 22 times (11 Jones, 8 Morris, 3 Thompson).
Against the Jets this week, we ran the ball 16 times (Morris 11, Thompson 5).
In our 2 wins, we've run the ball 37 and 31 times. This team needs the power run to be successful, but we've gotten away from it the last 2 weeks.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Since none of us actually have control over the situation, it's just us MMQB types (putting ourselves in Gruden's shoes) discussing whether the coach should make a QB change though. So, since Gruden picked Cousins in the preseason, he needs to stick with Cousins for better and for worse, and for richer and for poorer, so the GM can evaluate Gruden? (ETA: Even if Gruden is having second thoughts about his decision and may want to cut his losses.)
Last edited by a moderator:
Personally I think Gruden flopped back and forth so much with the QBs last year he has to stick with someone this year. Colt was the only one he really supported last year.
And Gruden should make the call on the QB position, it shouldn't be dictated from ownership or the GM. It's his call but it'll be on his head and I think that was made clear to him in the offseason. I just think that after the ridiculous carousel last year Gruden will ride Cousins until he can't play anymore.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I'd be ok with a loss next week if it gets rid of Gruden. Allow Scotty to bring in his own guy.hammerva said:
ChrisCooleyFan
Footballguy
dehaven123
Footballguy
Personally, I'm a proponent of less turmoil and drama during the season, so id like to see gruden run his course by coaching this thing out. However, if he becomes a lameduck HC, that could set back development of the younger players on the roster by fostering a uninspiring environment at redskins park. I'm still torn.
fatness
Footballguy
I've noticed the same thing this year with Cincy. And in case someone's not getting what you're saying: the Bengals offense has improved since Gruden left. I'm pretty sure the GM here is aware of that as well.
Meantime Gruden is here, with an inferior roster to that of the Bengals, trying to recreate what worked for him there. He wants Thompson to be Giovani Bernard, just like last year he wanted Roy Helu to be Giovani Bernard. Neither of them can hold Bernard's jock. Helu actually stole a fair amount of carries from Morris last year (and whiffed on every block he pretended to be trying), and now he's forgotten. Chris Thompson would be nice for 6-10 plays a game. Instead he's on the field over half the plays. Gruden's still trying to recreate the Bengals offense here. It's all he knows. He's predictable, other teams know what he'll do, and a lot of what he does is not helping the team he's coaching.
Most of Gruden's success with the Bengals had to do with their offensive personnel. He does not have that personnel here, and is unsuccessful here. And he hasn't figured out what to do.
Last edited by a moderator:
fatness
Footballguy
That's my concern also -- whether it's better to have a dead-man-walking coach the rest of the year, or to bring in someone temporary to try to coach the team. I don't know if either one helps players buy in and keep developing.
The idea that a win in Tampa turns things around is a bit misleading, too. Next comes a bye week and then New England, where they'll likely get pasted. And then morale will be an issue again. A win in Tampa just means there's a fire in the building, but it doesn't have to be evacuated just yet.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Of course it's Kirk. How this guy gets a pass from the local media and fans I have no idea.
Can you imagine telling your boss, "I feel like I didn't #### up that report as bad as I did last month, so do I get a raise now?"
dhockster
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see what Miami does the rest of the way with their midseason change in coaches. They looked good against Tennessee, but it is only one game. However, if the right guy is there to tweak a few things that Gruden is messing up right now, it could result in a few more wins. And a few more wins might win the NFC East this year.
I honestly don't know if the right guy is there to save the season. I am not a fan of Callahan as a HC, but he did take a team to the Super Bowl.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I don't understand this. There's certainly aspects of each game that he looked good if they wanted to make an excuse or show what he can do right. Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and say that an INT is a problem or it was a poor decision.
I just want the best QB in, seems like Thom Lovero might have been right and they should have rolled with Colt.
MattFancy
Footballguy
There would be an entire day's worth of breakdown over that quote by local radio if that came from Griffin.
The longer I look at the situation, the more I'm coming to the following conclusions:
RG3 is a terrible QB mechanically. He consistently has wrong/poor footwork, can't read a defense, can't prep the offense at the line, and doesn't go through his progressions well.
All the BS last year about the coach and others piling on him for his poor play WASN'T specifically because he was causing turnovers or missing open guys, it was because he was doing all of the things I mentioned above (and was also turning the ball over, taking sacks, etc...)
Through a couple preseason games this summer, it was pretty clear that had had not improved (at all?) enough to be a viable NFL QB.
Cousins does all the little things right. He aligns the team properly, he can read a defense at the line and make adjustments, his footwork and mechanics are good. He's just not a great talent. He's capable of working within a fairly limited set of constraints and produce good results sporadically. About once every 3 games...
From my perspective, I don't see this as the media giving him a pass because he's white/the backup/not RG3. He's getting properly skewered for some very poor decisions this week, but from a (mostly) unbiased perspective, he's pretty clearly the best QB on the roster warts and all.
RG3 had all the problems listed above, AND he's a giant media/endorsement whore, AND he appears to have lost the locker room, AND he hasn't dedicated himself to the finer points of becoming a quality NFL QB. Add all of this to the on the field problems, and he has 100% deserved all of the bashing that he's taken in the press over the past three years.
People have compared the criticism that Gruden laid at his feet last year and the relative praise he's given Cousins this year as proof that the coach hates Griffin. While this may be the case, I don't think it was "wrong" per se. He shouldn't have come out and said all that to the press, but he was terrible at press conferences last year. He's learned from his public relations mistakes and isn't taking that tack this year. So at least there's -some- growth that Gruden has shown.
RG3 is a terrible QB mechanically. He consistently has wrong/poor footwork, can't read a defense, can't prep the offense at the line, and doesn't go through his progressions well.
All the BS last year about the coach and others piling on him for his poor play WASN'T specifically because he was causing turnovers or missing open guys, it was because he was doing all of the things I mentioned above (and was also turning the ball over, taking sacks, etc...)
Through a couple preseason games this summer, it was pretty clear that had had not improved (at all?) enough to be a viable NFL QB.
Cousins does all the little things right. He aligns the team properly, he can read a defense at the line and make adjustments, his footwork and mechanics are good. He's just not a great talent. He's capable of working within a fairly limited set of constraints and produce good results sporadically. About once every 3 games...
From my perspective, I don't see this as the media giving him a pass because he's white/the backup/not RG3. He's getting properly skewered for some very poor decisions this week, but from a (mostly) unbiased perspective, he's pretty clearly the best QB on the roster warts and all.
RG3 had all the problems listed above, AND he's a giant media/endorsement whore, AND he appears to have lost the locker room, AND he hasn't dedicated himself to the finer points of becoming a quality NFL QB. Add all of this to the on the field problems, and he has 100% deserved all of the bashing that he's taken in the press over the past three years.
People have compared the criticism that Gruden laid at his feet last year and the relative praise he's given Cousins this year as proof that the coach hates Griffin. While this may be the case, I don't think it was "wrong" per se. He shouldn't have come out and said all that to the press, but he was terrible at press conferences last year. He's learned from his public relations mistakes and isn't taking that tack this year. So at least there's -some- growth that Gruden has shown.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I don't disagree with everything here, but there's a few things I don't agree with.
Yes, we all know Griffin has his flaws, but saying Kirk does all the little things right? I'm not so sure. He can read defenses? Maybe. He throws alot of bad picks into bad coverage. He locks onto WRs presnap. He's not good when a play breaks down at making a play. Sure, Cousins doesn't take sacks and appears to have better footwork, but he still has alot of the same flaws he's had since Day 1.
I'm not so sure bringing in Griffin or McCoy makes that much of a difference, but if Cousins continues to turn the ball over week after week, does he really give us the best chance to win? I don't think he does.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Agreed. Obviously, his good footwork doesn't matter when he's making terrible reads and throwing behind WRs. You can have all the footwork in the world, but if you're constantly throwing the ball to the other team, it really doesn't matter.
fatness
Footballguy
Those little things matter mostly in practice and meetings. On the field week after week he stares down receivers, throws inaccurately, visibly loses confidence, and now we're starting to see the "panic when plays break down" stuff he did last year. He loses games, through his on-field performance. Putting the guy out there repeatedly when he's performing the way he is is telling the rest of the team you'd rather lose while waiting to be proven right about the guy finally "putting it together".
If there was no Robert Griffin, no one here would want Kirk Cousins starting. He's still benefitting from the support he's built for being "not Griffin".
Spot on. If you'll notice I said that he's doing things correctly pre-snap. Once the battle is raging, he loses all composure. He's been late on throws and throwing behind his receives since the preseason, and has not improved at all in this regard.
Results-wise, he's historically poor. And yet he's still the best option week to week on the roster.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yeah, explain to me if he's so great at reading defenses, why did he gift wrap the INT to Prince Amukamara in the Giants game? Why does he throw check downs to guys that are covered like a blanket for 6 yard losses? If his footwork and mechanics are so great, why is he consistently inaccurate?
Completely agree. He's the consummate practice player. He has zero mental toughness and cracks after his first or second mistake. And it's not like he was playing lights-out prior to mistake #1 either. He's done -just enough- to get help the team get 2 victories (i.e., not be the cause of losing those games), but he's not going to put the team on his back for more than a drive or two per game. And god forbid you have to rely on him in a situation late with the game on the line.
Hang 10
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Honeslty, I think "Cousins gives the Redskins the best chance to win" has become a phrase devoid of meaning, and is just repeated.
In the offseason it made sense to say that, or to have that opinion about any of the 3 QB's, because we're talking strategy for the upcoming season. During a season however performances matter, and Cousins is performing badly. A bad Tampa game makes it time to bench him. There are other players on the team who want to win.
In the offseason it made sense to say that, or to have that opinion about any of the 3 QB's, because we're talking strategy for the upcoming season. During a season however performances matter, and Cousins is performing badly. A bad Tampa game makes it time to bench him. There are other players on the team who want to win.
I just had to read through my comments to verify that I did not say that "Cousins gives the Redskins the best chance to win". Phew.
Cousins will lose fewer games than the other guys on the roster due to QB miscues/poor play.
Griffin gives a bad team the best chance to win more games, 100% due to his innate talent.
I think we can all agree that ~2 more wins is the ceiling for this team regardless of who is at QB, right?
Cousins will lose fewer games than the other guys on the roster due to QB miscues/poor play.
Griffin gives a bad team the best chance to win more games, 100% due to his innate talent.
I think we can all agree that ~2 more wins is the ceiling for this team regardless of who is at QB, right?
Hang 10
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
It's people just reporting what they hear from the local media. Cooley, Sheehan, Paulsen and their like have been touting Kirk since last year. So what if he's thrown 8 INTs and has shown no development, they aren't giving up on their guy! So they'll keep saying "he gives us the best chance to win". Yes, scoring 19ppg is giving the team the best chance to win!
I'd say all of us agree that this team isn't a QB away right now. Gruden is a huge problem and until he is gone, no matter who plays QB, this team is going to lose far more often than it wins. Would putting in Griffin or McCoy give us more wins? I honestly don't know, but what would it hurt to find out?
No QB on the roster gives them a great chance to win. Putting Griffin in is too much of a risk, with his injury guarantee so that leaves Colt. Gruden has hung too much in with Cousins to make a change though, he'll have to stick with him unless there's an injury.
No QB is going to look decent here as long as Gruden is involved.
His commitment to Cousins might be what gets him fired. He should be fired because he's a crappy coach.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Sure there's risk with Griffin, but I saw a tweet from Keim (I think it was him or maybe Tandler) that even when Griffin tore his ACL in January, he still passed the physical in March/April.
If you don't think Griffin is the long term solution you can't gamble 11% of the entire Salary Cap to have him play this year. That would be a redonkulously stupid business decision.
Scot McC did well this past offseason, I wouldn't want to see him hamstrung in any way. Just let the guy wipe the slate clean and let him put his pieces in place.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I'm not going to agree with that. I only see a couple games on the schedule that are sure-fire losses. The rest is an Any Given Sunday situation. This league has upsets every week. We can win some games. Let's go ahead and start with Tampa.
He's the one who made the boneheaded move to exercise the ridiculous option on RG3, isn't he? Or are we putting that one squarely on Snyder?
MattFancy
Footballguy
I dunno, any player could get hurt. Who's to say whoever we sign/draft at QB gets injured next year? If the team thinks Cousins isn't the answer and wants to give Griffin a shot, I'm fine with that.
He seems like the only guy there that's making sound football moves. I've assumed the Griffin option was a Snyder/Allen move. To this point he's made sound FA moves and seems like he drafted pretty well. He's one of the few people there that deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Man, I hate when people try to put all the bad moves on Snyder's tab. It's how they absolve a total failure like Shanahan. Scot is the GM and that means he owns every roster move going forward after the day he was hired. If he didn't sign on off on the Griffin option, then he should have gone to the media.
Also, I don't believe you can make decisions about who does or doesn't play based on a chance they suffer a catastrophic injury. If he's healthy and he gives you best to win then you better ####ing play him. What are we saving up this magic cap space for? We gonna make a run at the title next year?
Also, I don't believe you can make decisions about who does or doesn't play based on a chance they suffer a catastrophic injury. If he's healthy and he gives you best to win then you better ####ing play him. What are we saving up this magic cap space for? We gonna make a run at the title next year?
Last edited by a moderator:
MattFancy
Footballguy
The whole not playing Griffin thing because he could get hurt is interesting to me. Let's say for example, he was named the starter to begin the year and has been playing well so far, but the team is dealing with all the injuries, and the W/L record is the same as it is now, would you just bench him so he doesn't get hurt?
The team put themselves in a bind with the option, but they can't be scared to put him in if they honestly think he can play better than the other 2 at QB. Otherwise, why did they even keep him on the roster?
Hang 10
Footballguy
And if you can't play him, why is he still on the roster? You couldn't use that spot with all the injuries right now?
Similar threads
