Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I meant that I think they're planning to draft a RB with one of their first three picks. Obviously you can't plan for Elliott being there, but it's looking like he will be.
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*Official 2016 Philadelphia Eagles* - The year of Change (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
well, he probably wouldn't even be available or in our price range based on current DL $ allocation.
Wouldn't want him anyway. There's a reason the Cowboys are so hateable. They couldn't care less about a player's character. It was make me sick to have to root for a guy like Hardy.
Makes a lot of sense. Still young, played with Sam, is buddies with McLeod, and has speed to stretch the field.
Would be a great #3 guy or line him up outside and put JMatt back in the slot.
Ash
Footballguy
I could see Huff doing anything from a solid #3 WR season, say 35/400/3 to missing the cut in camp. So far he hasn't looked natural as anything more than a guy who can run with the ball in his hands but they could commit to using him that way (think the ways Chip manufactured opportunities for Jackson in 2013) or look for him to take a step forward in his development. Just not sure he has that true WR game in him.
Reuben Frank Verified account @RoobCSN 2h2 hours ago
Chris Givens contract: One year, $760,000 base salary, $80,000 signing bonus, $100,000 of base is guaranteed. Cap figure = $840,000.
Eliot Shorr-Parks Verified account @EliotShorrParks 3h3 hours ago
Jordan Matthews told Chris Givens to "come join the wave
Jeff McLane Verified account @Jeff_McLane 3h3 hours ago
New#Eagles WR Chris Givens on being a deep threat: I'm way faster on the field than my 40:
Chris Givens contract: One year, $760,000 base salary, $80,000 signing bonus, $100,000 of base is guaranteed. Cap figure = $840,000.
Eliot Shorr-Parks Verified account
Jordan Matthews told Chris Givens to "come join the wave
Jeff McLane Verified account
New
With the needs in the secondary and lack of anything resembling O-line depth, I would
Interesting take. I love reading how Howie did NOT get rid of all things Kelly, keeping the sports science guy on board and learning from other sports during his hiatus. Excited to see how Howie continues to lead this team
I'm not buying this. If one of them falls, I could see making the move, but I don't think that's the plan. We have a decent chunk already invested in the position and if BOTH actually poop the bed we won't be so low we can't try to make another move next year.
Ash
Footballguy
I woudn't hate any one of those, but wouldn't like to see all 3. Skill positions on O aren't why this team went to pieces under Chip, or under Andy for that matter. 3 biggest deficiences on the team I think are OL, coverage and pass rush.
Ash
Footballguy
Hopefully Chris Givens spends part of his $100K guarantee on a new jacket.
Or at least go all in, and get some Cam Newton pants to go with it.
Oh, and everybody GTF off my lawn.
Or at least go all in, and get some Cam Newton pants to go with it.
Oh, and everybody GTF off my lawn.
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
Let's go get Dansby.
modogg
Footballguy
if we don't grab a QB at 8, what is the plan for a franchise QB? Are we relying on Sam or Chase to be the QB for the next 4-5 years? I think the last time the Eagles had a pick in the top 15-20 of the draft was the year they drafted McNabb (off the top of my head, I could be wrong here). So are we relying on getting lucky in the future years? I know they say this isn't a great QB class, but that doesn't really mean much. Could be there are 2-3 potential NFL starting QBs and that is all the Eagles need to worry about
2013 - Lane Johnson #4
2012 - Fletcher Cox #12
2010 - Brandon Graham #13
Edit - also Corey Simon #6, McDougle #15, Andrews #16, Bunkley #14 in early 2000's
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
We moved up for both Cox and Graham. When Lane was picked the first QB in a weak class was taken around 20 I believe that was EJ Manual.
Since McNabb, we have never been in a better spot to land a "franchise" QB than we are right now.
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i guess it depends on how you view the QB's coming out this year. I am not excited about any of them. if there is a "franchise" QB among them, i don't think they will make it to #8. Remember, we picked McNabb at #2
I was really just trying to point out that we have had a top 15-20 pick roughly 50% of the time since McNabb (including the 2010 & 2012 picks before we moved up). I don't think we will have to wait 15 more years to have a chance to draft a QB around pick #8
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
The Bradford/Givens battery from 2012 (?). Givens never really evolved into more than a one trick pony, but at his best was capable of performing that deep threat trick well. I think he broke a rookie WR record, something like five straight games with a 40-50 yard reception (a mark set by Willie Gault of the Bears that had stood for several decades).
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The masses seem to think that this draft class has 2 QB's who will be gone in the top 7. With that said, they would seem to fit the definition of franchise QB's.
I think what Modog questioned is valid. At some point we're going to have to pick a franchise guy and when is that? Whether people like the idea or not there's no better time than now IMO. Obviously things have to break our way and who knows maybe they go 2 and 4 but IMO we have to try to get one if they like one.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This is an offense that is in sure need of a one-trick pony. If he can still get deep and make defense account for him that would be great.
Like was said, if they're really as highly regarded as some say they can be, then neither will be there at 8. If one seems to be slipping and not that strong of a prospect, then I don't want to waste such an awesome pick on a reach.Bigboy10182000 said:
The only other option is to trade up with Baltimore. Would be SHOCKED if Dallas or Jax traded back out of a spot to take a player like Bosa/Jack only to pick up an extra 3rd rounder. The cost will be much more then that and it's simply not one we can afford. I also think Balt could fall in love with a player and not want to budge. Even if we want to move up bad enough (I don't believe we do since we already have 2 starter-caliber qbs), I think the odds are slim that we get someone to agree to trade with us.
This is a no brainer to stay put at 8. I get the franchise QB stuff... I really do. But you can also win without a stud QB (Not sure Goff even is a stud qb anyways). The only way I can see it working is if Cleve doesn't take a QB and one falls into our lap and in that case I'd be interested in taking one but only if Jack/Bosa/Stanley are all gone. Way too many 'if this, if thats' to make this something to think is going to happen.
The Baltimore FO is already on record as saying there are six guys they would be happy with at #6, and they will take whichever one is the highest on their list.
That could be grandstanding to force someone to pay dearly for their pick, but it's what has been reported.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You're having a different discussion.
Im specifically talking about what Modogg said in his post. If not this year, when? What's the plan for 2017? I think he has some very valid questions/ concerns
What's a "Franchise QB" really mean anyways? Does it need to be a rookie you draft? Someone who spends 5 seasons as your starter? 10? Does he have to be a Top 5 QB? Top 10?
I think it's obviously very important to have a top QB, but sometimes that "franchise" word gives totally unrealistic standards. If you're talking about a QB who is Top 5, spends 10 years on the team, and wins titles, those are 1 in 100 guys. If you're talking about a consistent guy who can play 5+ years for you, and be a top 10qb, then I can see Sam being that guy. Guys like Carr, Mariota, Winston, Bridgewater, aren't going to necessarily fall into either one of those categories. Even with a top 10 pick, your chance of hitting a Russel Wilson is probably 1 in 3.
I'd rather a much stronger team around Sam then a much weaker team around Goff who may not even become what we have now. If you're hunting for a top 5 young qb, and are unwavering on that, then yes maybe this is the year. Or maybe next year. Or the year after. If you don't see Sam as being your potential starter for 5+ years then you don't sign him to a 2 year 18 mil contract. Let him walk, suck and win 5 games by starting Chase, and draft a QB top 3 next year like Insein suggests.
modogg
Footballguy
i think a franchise QB is a guy you can rely on for 7-8 years. sure top 5-10 would be great, but most of all you want someone who gives you a chance if you are down, and you can rely on for the foreseeable future. i also think you are over-emphasizing this being do or die, as if they take Goff they lose out on other sure things. i was listening to the bleedinggreennation podcast the other day and they pointed out this fallacy that OL are less likely to be bust high in the draft or most other positions.
and i'm not sure about the plan you have to kind of tank and hope you are worst then others. a lot of the bottom feeder teams are there annually. you can see some good models with a lot of other teams. cancel out some of the perennial top teams like Indy who just got really lucky but you can see a map for how it can be done. I like the Packers when they had Farve and drafted Rodgers, or Eagles with Kolb when McNabb was still playing at a top level.
Really what it comes down to is the hope that the Eagles have a good sense of knowing what to look for, and if they are real high on Goff or Wentz to go for it (at the right price). I think relying on Sam for 5 years, on simple injury history alone, is a little worrisome.
babydemon90
Footballguy
This exact conversation is why if I'm Dallas I'm taking the best QB out there, hands down. Obviously we'll see what happens on draft day, but I would not be surprised to see Goff and Wentz gone by 1.8. Hoping for it, actually, as our chances at a stud grow even higher. If neither of them go - then sure, I can see grabbing whichever of them we like, it'll mean top 7 non-QB's are off the board, and our selection is getting smaller. I doubt it though.
Slider
Footballguy
I think Bradford at 28 can be that franchise QB. Why would we take a QB when we have no RB (that can stay healthy anyway) and a need at OT/OG? Clearly history has shown an average QB will be above average in the WCO. We have the luxury of 2 years to see what Bradford is and a very capable backup in Daniel.
I'd go Zeke or a stud D guy. Both 3rds can be used to seriously upgrade the O-line.
I'd go Zeke or a stud D guy. Both 3rds can be used to seriously upgrade the O-line.
modogg
Footballguy
that would suck. I love Dallas better when they make dumb decisions. I agree them grabbing one of the Qbs (if they feel like the scouting reports are dead on) certainly would be a very smart play for them. I don't like it one bit
Insein
Footballguy
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I find it amusing that the national media is taking its cue and beating up Kelly over this instead of the Titans for not taking it.
massraider
Footballguy
Shoot, if they knew they'd have two QBs this year to choose from, you make that deal in a second. I like Mariota, but I would trade him for Cox, Wentz, and an extra 1 and 2. Dang.
massraider
Footballguy
Kelly could have done even more damage to this team than he did.
Insein
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Is this like version 156165416516 of this deal? Without looking at the link is it NJ.com?
Insein
Footballguy
I'd be pretty surprised if Dallas took a QB. Only way they do that is if they think Romo's on his last legs.
babydemon90
Footballguy
If Mariota end up being a stud QB, and Bradford flops, it might turn out to have been worth it...
See...here's the thing....a top 10 NFL QB doesn't come along every year. They rarely come more than one in a year. Rarely are they obvious before they ever play a down in the NFL.
And Bradford is already a starting caliber NFL QB.
Folks here continue to DRAMATICALLY overestimate the odds of getting a top QB in the draft.
To maybe take the other side, is this really THAT much?
Bradford means nothing if we got Mariota. So pretty much to move up we were giving up:
2015 2nd
2016 1st
Cox
That is not an obscene amount to give to move up from 20 to 2 based on the norm. Cox looks more valuable to us now because he had a great season, but probably would be worth a 2nd rounder as of last April.
I'm just looking back at last year's thread around draft time. The "rumoured" things and what it seemed a lot of posters felt was the right value, was:
Pick 20
2015 1st (acquired for Bradford)
Cox
Kendricks
2016 1st
So pretty much today's news is nothing new at all. It's pretty much that exact offer that a lot of people were talking about (sending Kendricks instead of a 2nd rounder). I didn't like that deal at the time, and still don't, but I don't think it's that much more excessive then market value for pick #2.
Pick 20
2015 1st (acquired for Bradford)
Cox
Kendricks
2016 1st
So pretty much today's news is nothing new at all. It's pretty much that exact offer that a lot of people were talking about (sending Kendricks instead of a 2nd rounder). I didn't like that deal at the time, and still don't, but I don't think it's that much more excessive then market value for pick #2.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Correct. With every others flaw Kelly has shown, it wouldn't matter if the pick would have been Tarnigton, Cunningham, Montana, bronco f'n Negurski--this team would have been screwed. Took me all of one minute to turn the radio off with the usual idiocy.
We are better off without Kelly--end of story.
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
So many people like to hate on Kelly, making it easy to dismiss this potential trade-up as "insane." I don't think it's an unreasonable price to pay. We're talking about a franchise QB here, and one who supposedly would have been the perfect fit in Kelly's offense. Seemingly ignored is the cap relief that such a move would have offered, and the potential moves that could have been made as a result.
Not having Bradford on the books, or 2015 draft ammo, they probably would have ponied up for Maclin. They could have signed a premier DL to replace Cox. And they could have put money into the offensive line. Losing the draft picks would have hurt, but Agholor and Rowe haven't exactly lit the world on fire thus far. Furthermore, I highly doubt that the 2016 first would have been as high as 13 this year. They very well may have won the division with Mariota under center. At the very least, Chip would likely still be coaching the team.
To me, that is the hidden agenda to many who hate this could-have-been trade. Liking it is tantamount to endorsing another year or two of the Kelly regime, and so many people just can't stomach that notion. But who knows? Maybe it all could have gone in a much brighter direction had the Titans said yes.
Not having Bradford on the books, or 2015 draft ammo, they probably would have ponied up for Maclin. They could have signed a premier DL to replace Cox. And they could have put money into the offensive line. Losing the draft picks would have hurt, but Agholor and Rowe haven't exactly lit the world on fire thus far. Furthermore, I highly doubt that the 2016 first would have been as high as 13 this year. They very well may have won the division with Mariota under center. At the very least, Chip would likely still be coaching the team.
To me, that is the hidden agenda to many who hate this could-have-been trade. Liking it is tantamount to endorsing another year or two of the Kelly regime, and so many people just can't stomach that notion. But who knows? Maybe it all could have gone in a much brighter direction had the Titans said yes.
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JetMaxx
Footballguy
I'm not a Hargreaves fan, especially at 8. Here's a great link regarding top DBs in the draft, taken from the Raiders thread.
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s--by-the-numbers--series---before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round--they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s--by-the-numbers--series---before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round--they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html
Polish Hammer
made of glass
However, giving up those draft picks really hurts you from a cap perspective. Getting talent in the draft is cheaper than the FA market, and you can often keep them later for less as well. Assuming (it's a big one) that they had drafted players we would want to keep with those multiple high picks given away, those are some big gaps that become more expensive over time to fill. Yes, Mariota would likely have been a good fit for Kelly, but what it the team still imploded in year one and he was gone? Then where would we be? This shows it to be a very shortsighted move, at least as presented.
Put another way, do you think GB, NE, or SEA would go for a move like this?
