Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter avoiding injuries
- Start date
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I've haven't seen much in the way of dickishness at CY. Memorial Stadium could get a little freaky, though. Used to go to Two Buck night on Mondays in the early 80s. $2 to sit in several of the upper deck sections and that was when you could bring your own beer in. Saw quite a few fights there, but it was usually brothers Donnie & Jackie from Dundalk fighting each other.
Different sport, but Ravens games are awful to go to if you're into politeness.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Absolutely amazing. After the past two seasons, it was not a stretch to believe that the Orioles would have some level of success this season, but I never anticipated that they would be 21 games over, leading the AL East by nine games, and have one of the best records in baseball.
The_Man
Footballguy
This team reminds me of the late 70s and early 80s teams I grew up watching. I know it's a cliche, but I have to say it: Pitching, defense and 3-run homers.
They can still look like crap when they don't hit HRs because they struggle to manufacture runs, but they are so fun to watch right now. The bullpen is truly incredible (except for Matusz, who I don't like - and maybe Buck doesn't either, since he's pitched to exactly two hitters since Aug. 9, one of whom took him deep for a walk-off HR). With Miller, O'Day and Britton, the O's are essentially getting 9 turns to bat vs. their opponents' 6 turns. Once they get a late lead, the game is essentially over.
One thing I can't help noticing -- on June 8, Manny threw his bat in an 11-1 loss to Oakland that put the team's record at 31-30. Adam Jones called a players-only meeting before the next game and made it clear that kind of stuff doesn't go in his clubhouse. The Orioles have only been 42-22 since. The guy might be the best leader this franchise has seen since Frank Robinson.
They can still look like crap when they don't hit HRs because they struggle to manufacture runs, but they are so fun to watch right now. The bullpen is truly incredible (except for Matusz, who I don't like - and maybe Buck doesn't either, since he's pitched to exactly two hitters since Aug. 9, one of whom took him deep for a walk-off HR). With Miller, O'Day and Britton, the O's are essentially getting 9 turns to bat vs. their opponents' 6 turns. Once they get a late lead, the game is essentially over.
One thing I can't help noticing -- on June 8, Manny threw his bat in an 11-1 loss to Oakland that put the team's record at 31-30. Adam Jones called a players-only meeting before the next game and made it clear that kind of stuff doesn't go in his clubhouse. The Orioles have only been 42-22 since. The guy might be the best leader this franchise has seen since Frank Robinson.
The starting pitching has been amazing. And I don't think anyone saw it coming. Tillman, Chen, Gonzalez, and Norris are all having career years. Part of me expects it to fall apart, but they have been pitching lights out for 2 1/2 months now.
Last edited by a moderator:
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I agree.
Cal & Eddie were "lead by example" types. Nothing wrong with that of course, but all of their teammates were USED to winning so not a lot of "not on MY watch" needed (& neither really had the personality for that anyway). Palmer was a prima donna who kept pretty aloof from the rest. Those teams just kind of cruised along. I guess Bumbry was the closest they had to a vocal leader (besides Earl, who I think everyone just kind of tuned out when he went nuts).
The mid-90s teams were full of vets who had seen it all. They didn't really need a "guy".
But when this version of the Orioles got good a couple of years ago, they had been bad for 15 years and had no major players who were used to winning. For a kid to take the reins has been remarkable to watch.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Tillman was really good last year, too.
Chen & Gonzo seemed like "one good break, I win", "one bad break, I lose" kind of guys so it's good to see both being able to dictate their own fates more this year (as far as winning & losing goes). I think Chen can be really, really good.
Norris has been the shocker for me. He seemed like one of those "I'll give you 6 innings and try to hold 'em to 4 runs, skip" kind of guys, but he's been more like "7 and 3" which is a huge difference.
And, boy, has Gausman grown into a good pitcher.
Koya
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Yep.
You know what, though? #### it. Everyone has injuries and I believe Buck can jiggle the lineup enough to mask some of Manny's loss.Having Davis bat an average that starts with a "2" would really help. Christ, does he want to be Dave Kingman II?
Whew, now that the O's have that out of their system we can get on with the rest of the season.
Losing Manny puts a crimp in the defense and costs the team offensive flexibility but we've still got the pitching to lean on, which was on display again today. I'm with you U-H, I think Buck will make the lineup work some way some how but instead of a walk to the division title we'll just have to sweat it out a little. It'll make for a tense but exciting final five weeks and what baseball fan doesn't enjoy a good pennant race?
Time for some Oriole magic! Bring it on!
Losing Manny puts a crimp in the defense and costs the team offensive flexibility but we've still got the pitching to lean on, which was on display again today. I'm with you U-H, I think Buck will make the lineup work some way some how but instead of a walk to the division title we'll just have to sweat it out a little. It'll make for a tense but exciting final five weeks and what baseball fan doesn't enjoy a good pennant race?
Time for some Oriole magic! Bring it on!
The_Man
Footballguy
With Manny down, I don't think this team has a legit shot at winning the World Series. They might pull a rabbit out of the hat, but I'm seeing them as an ALCS loser. Home runs can just be hard to come by sometimes - like at Wrigley - and when that happens, they don't score.
Sure fun when they do go deep though.
Tillman is a horse. Huge game tonight and he just dealt until the bats came around. He had a great quote about AJ: "Typical Adam. Not satisfied with the catch, he had to throw someone out too." I've been critical of his defense, but that was a jawdropping play. Just made it look so easy.
Got so sick of the #####ing and drama around town as soon as the Orioles hit a little bump. Magic number = 28. If Orioles just go 17-16, Yankees have to go 23-10 to tie.
Another tough opposing pitcher tomorrow. Feel like we've been facing a lot of good ones for a while now.
So I'm sitting here tonight watching Britton close out another game for the O's and I realize I feel comfortable and confident with him on the mound in that situation, and that's kind of odd. Even in 2012 when Jim Jonson was rolling, his junk ball pitching style always left me biting my nails and crossing my fingers. Follow that up with his melt down last year and then Hunter taking over and I still felt as though it could all go to heck in an instant. Hunter never seemed comfortable in his role as closer, didn't exude confidence. I don't know, maybe it's all 20/20 hindsight but whatever...
But now, when I see Britton pitch I see a legit, lights out, end the game pitcher. It's a nice feeling.
But now, when I see Britton pitch I see a legit, lights out, end the game pitcher. It's a nice feeling.
Last edited by a moderator:
The_Man
Footballguy
Not to mention what Johnson has done this year. Kind of incredible that they traded his salary for the money to sign Cruz, with $2 million left over. Takes a little of the sting out of the $37.5M we have to pay long-reliever Ubaldo over the next 3 years. BTW, I really appreciate the great attitude he has shown - said all the right things about trying to help the team in this new role.
I said that after the O's got Miller (who has been dominant) they were only playing 6-inning games before going to Miller, O'Day and Britton to close it out. Last night they only played a 4.2-inning game. Bullpen gave up just one hit in 4.1 innings.
After the O's got up 4-2, but left men at 2nd and 3rd with nobody out, I wasn't even worried it would cost them. The bullpen has been that reliable. Also, what a great play Crush made at the plate from 3B last night. Just unreal for him to be able to do that.
Magic # = 26. If Orioles go 16-16, Yankees must go 23-9 to tie.
The_Man
Footballguy
I just love how the Orioles are doing business right now. They optioned Chen to the Gulf Coast League, and called up Steve Clevenger to be a third catcher/pinch-hitter.
As soon as the season of the minor league team that a player is optioned to ends, he's allowed to come back to the big league roster without the standard 10-day waiting period. So Chen can still make his next scheduled start on Aug. 31, but the Orioles get an extra player for the next 4 games. Will it make a difference? Probably not. But I love them exploiting every loophole they can find.
And Clevenger can be added back to the roster when they expand on Sept. 1.
As soon as the season of the minor league team that a player is optioned to ends, he's allowed to come back to the big league roster without the standard 10-day waiting period. So Chen can still make his next scheduled start on Aug. 31, but the Orioles get an extra player for the next 4 games. Will it make a difference? Probably not. But I love them exploiting every loophole they can find.
And Clevenger can be added back to the roster when they expand on Sept. 1.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
My god, is there anyone you'd rather see come to the plate less than Chris Davis when you have a man on 3rd with 1 out?
Last night they had to pull off a double steal bc he was getting ready to strike out. Next time up, hit a sure thing double play, but for some reason the turn throw got thrown practically into the stands. Don't forget the other night after he got out and Joseph saved the day by getting the hit into CF.
Bullpen is just nasty. Andrew Miller is freaking incredible.
Last night they had to pull off a double steal bc he was getting ready to strike out. Next time up, hit a sure thing double play, but for some reason the turn throw got thrown practically into the stands. Don't forget the other night after he got out and Joseph saved the day by getting the hit into CF.
Bullpen is just nasty. Andrew Miller is freaking incredible.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Was it last night or the night before they intentionally walked him? I know Madden is a fantastic manager, but I laughed out loud thinking "why?????". And it STILL worked out for the Orioles
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I'll take it!
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I thought it was interference, too. I guess the umps thought it hit the OF's glove first (not so sure about that), but the fan was definitely in the field of play.
Losing Pearce at this point would be a major blow. Besides him being on fire himself and losing that, it would severely hamper Buck's ability to mix-and-match.
I have to admit that I thought Davis at 3rd would be a disaster, but he's played it really well.
Losing Pearce at this point would be a major blow. Besides him being on fire himself and losing that, it would severely hamper Buck's ability to mix-and-match.
I have to admit that I thought Davis at 3rd would be a disaster, but he's played it really well.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Intentional walk to Davis loads the bases, then Hardy Grand Slam.Grand slam for DavisWas it last night or the night before they intentionally walked him? I know Madden is a fantastic manager, but I laughed out loud thinking "why?????". And it STILL worked out for the Orioles
My goodness
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Fantasy baseball has kind of made me gay for Steve Pearce.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
And O'Day apparently is, too.
I'm very OK with these guys hitting a little bump in the road now. I think Jim Johnson had saved some ridiculous number of consecutive games in 2012, and then unfortunately hit his bump in the road in the playoffs vs. the Yankees and blew two games. I have so much confidence in the bullpen and - since it's impossible to be perfect all the time - would much prefer their stumbles to come now and not in October.
BTW, how is Buck not the consensus AL Manager of the Year? Heading for a walkover AL East crown and 95 wins, all without Wieters and Machado. What he has done this year, both with the bullpen and in putting his guys out there in situations to do their best, has been truly remarkable. Whenever I see an unusual lineup decision like Hundley or Lough or whatever, I know there's a reason for it and almost invariably it pays off.
Magic # = 17. If the Orioles go 13-12 the rest of the way, the Yankees have to go 23-3 to tie. Detroit coming to life and starting to scare me - hoping KC can hold them off, or that the O's can somehow catch the Angels for the #1 seed.
I'm very OK with these guys hitting a little bump in the road now. I think Jim Johnson had saved some ridiculous number of consecutive games in 2012, and then unfortunately hit his bump in the road in the playoffs vs. the Yankees and blew two games. I have so much confidence in the bullpen and - since it's impossible to be perfect all the time - would much prefer their stumbles to come now and not in October.
BTW, how is Buck not the consensus AL Manager of the Year? Heading for a walkover AL East crown and 95 wins, all without Wieters and Machado. What he has done this year, both with the bullpen and in putting his guys out there in situations to do their best, has been truly remarkable. Whenever I see an unusual lineup decision like Hundley or Lough or whatever, I know there's a reason for it and almost invariably it pays off.
Magic # = 17. If the Orioles go 13-12 the rest of the way, the Yankees have to go 23-3 to tie. Detroit coming to life and starting to scare me - hoping KC can hold them off, or that the O's can somehow catch the Angels for the #1 seed.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm fairly sure he'll win it but you're getting a little carried away here. Machado played more than half the season, and Wieters sported a .704 OPS last year- his impressive April numbers were due for a major correction if he hadn't gotten hurt. The Orioles lost less to injury than the average MLB team, and far less than their nearest competitors in the AL East. Also, more than 10% of their runs scored come on Cruz HRs. The credit for picking up a controversy-marred vet on a one-year deal and having him produce a career best season goes to the front office, not the manager.
The_Man
Footballguy
Machado played more than half the season - yes 82 games (1 more than half!), much of which was garbage as he recovered from injury. He came back on May 1 and had a whopping 4 HR and 13 RBI with a .236 average through June 25. But more important than his numbers or Wieters's were their defense, of course.
Cruz has helped carry the team, and he's had to because Davis has been so bad.
This team has serious holes, particularly that they don't score if they don't homer. But that doesn't mean you should discount what the manager has done with this team. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's taken the franchise to 3 straight winning seasons after 13 consecutive losing years - he has completely changed the culture and mindset.
I know some other teams have been hit hard with injuries, but the Orioles are going into the playoffs missing two Gold Gloves and two potentially very potent bats. Weiter's hitting history isn't that great, but he was off to a really good start this year. These aren't fringe players.
Here is a very interesting article by Tom Boswell of the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/baltimore-leads-the-al-east-because-of-its-discount-rotation-and-consistent-bullpen/2014/08/28/65b822aa-2ec9-11e4-bb9b-997ae96fad33_story.html
Most interesting is this:
Buck is making the case that the Orioles have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. The only team he did not discount was the Nationals.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
"Going into the playoffs" doesn't have anything to do with the manager of the year award. That's based on regular season performance, the majority of which was done with Machado's help and with the benefit of a month of Wieters playing at an elite level offensively that almost certainly would have corrected had his season continued.
Don't get me wrong, he's done a fine job and deserves the award based on them exceeding expectations and their record in close games. But it's misleading to say he deserves it because the Orioles have overcome significant losses to injury. Machado has played two-thirds of the season to date. Of they teams in the playoff race they've been luckier than most with injuries.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Just an FYI. Now that school has started you can get lower level tickets in the first few rows for less than $20 on stubhub.
I'm taking the wife and daughter tonight and sitting 3rd row, 1st base side for $50.
I'm taking the wife and daughter tonight and sitting 3rd row, 1st base side for $50.
The_Man
Footballguy
Awesome. Maybe I'll see you there - bringing my daughter for the next-to-last Dugout Club game of the year. My usual MO is to buy the $6 upper reserve companion ticket that comes with her free Dugout Club voucher, spend the first inning on the Flag Court, and then move into some unoccupied good seats. Our usual landing spot is in the first 3 or 4 rows by the ballgirl down the rightfield line.
Beautiful night for a ballgame!
The_Man
Footballguy
The 15-14 record the O's put up with Wieters through May 4 doesn't really have a lot of impact on the 65-43 ball they've played since with Caleb Joseph as their primary catcher. I think Buck has had a lot to do with how the rookie backstop has handled the staff since the loss of their All-Star veteran catcher.TobiasFunke said:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Or you could argue that Wieters is a poor pitch framer and Showalter, who has watched Wieters get worse and worse at framing in their time together and been unable to sort him out, lucked out when he hit the DL and was replaced behind the dish by someone who already knew how to help his pitchers.
Again, I'm not making that argument, or saying he doesn't deserve the award. But I'd give it to him based on the team's record as compared to preseason projections and their record in close games, not because he's helped the team overcome a terrible rash of injuries. They haven't really lost much to injury- every fan base thinks their team has had bad luck with injuries this year, but unless their team is the Rangers most of those fans are wrong.
The_Man
Footballguy
OK, Tobias. The Orioles got lucky to lose Wieters in favor of 28-year-old rookie Caleb Joseph, who amassed 1700 at-bats over the last four years in Double-A. If only Adam Jones could twist his ankle, maybe the O's could finally get Henry Urrutia in the line-up!
But you make a good point - let's focus on their on-field achievement. Baltimore is 28-15 since the All-Star Break, tied for the best record in baseball. That despite playing the first 28 games after the break vs. teams with winning records, including a 10-game trip to Oak, LAA, and Seattle. They're also 22-7 in their last 29 home games. Hope they add to that tonight while Avoiding Injuries and I are there to cheer them on.
Kind of a dogmeat lineup tonight:
Markakis - RF
Lough - CF
Jones - DH
Cruz - LF
Davis - 1B
Hardy - SS
Kelly Johnson - 3B
Joseph - C
Schoop - 2B
Based on the way this season has gone for MOTYBS (Manager of the Year Buck Showalter), Lough will go 3-for-5, swipe a couple of bases and Johnson will hit a Home Run.
But you make a good point - let's focus on their on-field achievement. Baltimore is 28-15 since the All-Star Break, tied for the best record in baseball. That despite playing the first 28 games after the break vs. teams with winning records, including a 10-game trip to Oak, LAA, and Seattle. They're also 22-7 in their last 29 home games. Hope they add to that tonight while Avoiding Injuries and I are there to cheer them on.
Kind of a dogmeat lineup tonight:
Markakis - RF
Lough - CF
Jones - DH
Cruz - LF
Davis - 1B
Hardy - SS
Kelly Johnson - 3B
Joseph - C
Schoop - 2B
Based on the way this season has gone for MOTYBS (Manager of the Year Buck Showalter), Lough will go 3-for-5, swipe a couple of bases and Johnson will hit a Home Run.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
If my section is somewhat open, I have no problem mtg you after we are seated and giving you two of our tickets to make it down past the usher.
