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***Official 2018 St. Louis Cardinals Thread*** -- Matheny gone (1 Viewer)

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Always a fan of Holliday. Hope he ends up in the AL on a contender 
He probably still has another year or two left in him as a DH.    His OBP fell way down this year because he stopped taking walks, but he can still drive the ball: 20 HRs and 20 doubles in 425 PAs.

Won't be the same at Busch III next year with fewer fans in the stands wearing Holliday shirseys with their jorts.      

 

ffldrew

Footballguy
What a taxing season as a fan.....they were never able to find a solid lineup for 162 games. Good pitchers always starting in the hole early in games. Pitchers would have a great start and you'd think things were fixed until they bombed the next start. And the bullpen was ridiculous. Some of the lineup and bullpen goes on the manager - he gets credit when things go well he should take some blame when things go bad. Some of the replacement players were black holes at the plate - not playing good Cardinal baseball. It will be interesting to see how 1st base gets solved and hopefully we find some solid outfielders - both with D and at the plate.Plenty of games were blown with errors to make up the one game and that's not Cardinal baseball either. 

So congrats to the World Series Champion Giants and we can get back at this next Spring.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Ten years ago tonight was that 9th inning where Yadi homered in the top, and Waino froze Beltran with an 0-2 curveball in the bottom.

That was a good inning.  A really, really, good inning.

 
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Bob Sacamano

Marc Levin groupie
Everybody forgets the ridiculous catch by Endy Chavez, robbing Rolen of a HR a few innings earlier because it ended up not mattering.  One of the best plays I've ever seen, though.  Fun game.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Nelson Cruz is still trying to track that ball.
I'm sure there's a lot of Rangers fans still wondering how Cruz didn't catch it.

This is going to sound corny, but for months after that game, whenever things looked bleak, from something as trivial as winning a board game to watching extended family battle health problems, my inner monologue go-to was "if there's anything David Freese has taught me, it's that two outs and two strikes is not the same as three outs."  Silly, but it worked.

 

RnR

Footballguy
This is an excellent day in Cardinals history.  Take your pick between winning the 2006 Series, or my selection, Game 6 of the 2011 Series.

This crowdsourced video of the late-inning heroics is awesome, but does have some NSFW audio
Thanks for posting this video. Brought back some great memories. The $300 i spent on my Game 6 ticket in 2011 will forever be some of the best money ever spent. I'm a pretty reserved dude, but it was an out-of-body experience... hugging strangers... high-fiving random people. What a great night.

 
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Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Thanks for posting this video. Brought back some great memories. The $300 i spent on my Game 6 ticket in 2011 will forever be some of the best money ever spent. I'm a pretty reserved dude, but it was an out-of-body experience... hugging strangers... high-fiving random people. What a great night.
Glad you liked it.  I'll admit it.  I teared up watching it.  Today.

Like Freese, I grew up in West County.  We were several years apart and our paths never crossed, but we played in the same competitive youth baseball program on the same fields all over the County (CAA).  So when Freese hit that triole and homer, I was overpowered by emotion.  It was like Freese did that for every kid who played in the CAA and dreamed of someday winning a World Series game for the Cardinals.  (There's also some parts of Freese's backstory involving second chances and circumstances I can relate to, but that's another day and another thread)

I know I can't impartially place that Game 6 properly in baseball history.  I just know it was an exhilarating experience, I was so wired afterwards I just rewound the DVR and watched the game again, and I'm so glad you got to experience that game live.  What a night.

 
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Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Matheny signed a three-year extension today.  Neither side wanted him going into next season on the last year of a contract.  Now he's signed through 2020.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Team has told Matt Carpenter they are moving him to 1B next season.  

They want to start Carpenter at 1B, Wong at 2B, Diaz at SS, move Peralta to 3B, and have Gyorko be the UT.

Peralta's salary drops to $10MM next season, which actually opens up some trade possibilities if they want it move him and try Piscotty at 3B, his college position.  But I suppose with Holliday gone a lot of corner OF playing time just opened up.  

 

RnR

Footballguy
A new face in CF seems to be inevitable. If you look hard enough, you'll see the Cardinals linked to any and all available via free agency or trade.

Predictions?

 

RnR

Footballguy
Team has told Matt Carpenter they are moving him to 1B next season.  

They want to start Carpenter at 1B, Wong at 2B, Diaz at SS, move Peralta to 3B, and have Gyorko be the UT.

Peralta's salary drops to $10MM next season, which actually opens up some trade possibilities if they want it move him and try Piscotty at 3B, his college position.  But I suppose with Holliday gone a lot of corner OF playing time just opened up.  
While I see the glimpses of a .300 hitter and the long-term potential in Kolten Wong, I can't help but wonder if it should be the guy that turned in 30 dingers in 400 ABs and a .801 OPS getting the benefit of the doubt for a starting spot heading into the spring. After all, Wong's only 2 years younger than Jedd.

 
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Limp Ditka

Footballguy
A new face in CF seems to be inevitable. If you look hard enough, you'll see the Cardinals linked to any and all available via free agency or trade.

Predictions?
Grichuk moving to LF? He wasn't great in CF, but he wasn't bad enough out there to make it unthinkable of leaving him there.

 

RnR

Footballguy
Grichuk moving to LF? He wasn't great in CF, but he wasn't bad enough out there to make it unthinkable of leaving him there.
I think that's the idea. A solid CF + Grichuk instead of Holliday/Moss in LF would serve as a significant defensive upgrade for a team that frankly wasn't very good defensively in 2016. As long as Grichuk can swing it enough to justify a corner OF spot, that is.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
RnR said:
While I see the glimpses of a .300 hitter and the long-term potential in Kolten Wong, I can't help but wonder if it should be the guy that turned in 30 dingers in 400 ABs and a .801 OPS getting the benefit of the doubt for a starting spot heading into the spring. After all, Wong's only 2 years younger than Jedd.
It's like Jedd played too well for the role M & M had in mind for him.  This is not a team taking a lot of extra bases via shrewd baserunning so 30 HRs matter a great deal.

Wong played some CF in college. Maybe he's the solution to the CF problem.  

Or, maybe not.

 
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Eephus

Footballguy
They're sitting pretty with SP depth in an off-season where that's the scarcest commodity but good CF aren't plentiful either.

Grichuk's advanced fielding stats at CF aren't bad albeit with a small sample size.  His OBP in a bigger sample is another thing.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
$82.5MM for Dexter Fowler seems like a lot.  But as salaries continue to escalate that AAV will seem better over time.  And CF was a big hole in a team that should be thinking postseason next year.

And now that the lock got shot off the wallet... Carpenter has been told it's no longer a sure thing he's moving to 1B next season.  The team is looking into short-term deals for either Trumbo or Encarnacion, either of whom would have to play 1B in the NL.  

 

RnR

Footballguy
I wouldn't be surprised to the the Cards go after Abreu
I've been telling my friends that's who they should go after, but the Sox will almost inevitably insist upon Alex Reyes in the package. At that point, I think they're better off signing EE or Trumbo and hanging on to Reyes.

 
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RnR

Footballguy
$82.5MM for Dexter Fowler seems like a lot.  But as salaries continue to escalate that AAV will seem better over time.  And CF was a big hole in a team that should be thinking postseason next year.

And now that the lock got shot off the wallet... Carpenter has been told it's no longer a sure thing he's moving to 1B next season.  The team is looking into short-term deals for either Trumbo or Encarnacion, either of whom would have to play 1B in the NL.  
I felt this way about it initially, but Brian Kenny put Fowler through the "shredder" this afternoon and made me feel better about things.

In summary, he's the No. 1 guy in MLB in terms of not swinging at balls outside of the strike zone. And No. 4 in MLB in baserunning efficiency. Throw in a major comeback in defensive efficiency and a walk rate approaching double the MLB average, and he might just be an "underrated" ball player.

That being said, five years to a 31-year-old CF feels scary. Kinda feels like the 4-year deal they handed to Peralta as a 30-something SS.

 
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Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
RnR said:
I felt this way about it initially, but Brian Kenny put Fowler through the "shredder" this afternoon and made me feel better about things.

In summary, he's the No. 1 guy in MLB in terms of not swinging at balls outside of the strike zone. And No. 4 in MLB in baserunning efficiency. Throw in a major comeback in defensive efficiency and a walk rate approaching double the MLB average, and he might just be an "underrated" ball player.

That being said, five years to a 31-year-old CF feels scary. Kinda feels like the 4-year deal they handed to Peralta as a 30-something SS.
Good points all.  Also need to figure the cost per WAR is going up over time, revenues are still going up, and the organization had nobody ready to play MLB CF.  Getting a player as good as Fowler without raiding the thinned-out prospect drawer is worth the money.  

Fowler in CF upgrades the entire outfield - his own contributions, Grichuk goes from average-at-best in CF to a plus defender in LF (certainly an upgrade over Holliday/Moss), and I'm long on Piscotty offensively and defensively in RF.  

Fowler's hitting approach is on-brand with a contact-heavy organization like STL, and his plate discipline and patience will be a great add to the leadoff spot.     

 
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Annyong

Footballguy
Fowlers gonna go maybe 15/15 .370 at the top with avg D. Any team is lucky to have him. Who knows how he will age but I assume he will always be able to take a walk. 

 

ffldrew

Footballguy
I felt this way about it initially, but Brian Kenny put Fowler through the "shredder" this afternoon and made me feel better about things.

In summary, he's the No. 1 guy in MLB in terms of not swinging at balls outside of the strike zone. And No. 4 in MLB in baserunning efficiency. Throw in a major comeback in defensive efficiency and a walk rate approaching double the MLB average, and he might just be an "underrated" ball player.

That being said, five years to a 31-year-old CF feels scary. Kinda feels like the 4-year deal they handed to Peralta as a 30-something SS.
Good points all.  Also need to figure the cost per WAR is going up over time, revenues are still going up, and the organization had nobody ready to play MLB CF.  Getting a player as good as Fowler without raiding the thinned-out prospect drawer is worth the money.  

Fowler in CF upgrades the entire outfield - his own contributions, Grichuk goes from average-at-best in CF to a plus defender in LF (certainly an upgrade over Holliday/Moss), and I'm long on Piscotty offensively and defensively in RF.  

Fowler's hitting approach is on-brand with a contact-heavy organization like STL, and his plate discipline and patience will be a great add to the leadoff spot.
It was a contract year last year and now he's got a ring - I watched him in Colorado for far too long and I think he reverts back to the norm. Playing well in spurts and striking out a lot at the wrong time (although he has picked up his walk rate). Getting hurt with little nagging injuries that keep him out of the lineup - look for around 130 games with about 25 or so on the in and out end of the injury where he is useless as well - so 110 really effective games.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
It was a contract year last year and now he's got a ring - I watched him in Colorado for far too long and I think he reverts back to the norm. Playing well in spurts and striking out a lot at the wrong time (although he has picked up his walk rate). Getting hurt with little nagging injuries that keep him out of the lineup - look for around 130 games with about 25 or so on the in and out end of the injury where he is useless as well - so 110 really effective games.
As a Cardinals superfan, I hope you're wrong.

As a human being who has read many, many intelligent posts from you over the years, consider my expectations reset at a lower level. :kicksrock:  

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
PECOTA projects the Cardinals to go 76-86.

Didn't catch if that projection was made before or after Reyes's TJ surgery was announced.

Marco Gonzales, it's your time to shine, amigo.

 

Bob Sacamano

Marc Levin groupie
I've done a very poor job of keeping up with things this spring.  What I think I know:

Reyes done for the year

Yadi contract talks ongoing

Martinez-Lynn-Wacha-Wainwright-Leake?    :X  if Wacha can't join Martinez at the front of the rotation?

Carp-Wong-Diaz-Peralta?

Grichuk-Fowler-Piscotty?

What else should I know at this point? 

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Strange time to fire Matheny but I think it's time for a change.
Not saying firing Matheny is why the team caught fire, but this run sure is fun to watch.  

I sure was wrong about Fowler.  Oof. 

Wasn't crazy about trading Pham, but trading him and benching Fowler to find out what O'Neill and Bader can do is working out all right.  

Just need a new S&C program to fix all the injury rehabilitation mishaps and this is a playoff team again.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
All five from the AAA starting rotation at the start of the season are in the show now.  

Poncedeleon works a lot of deep counts, maybe too many to be a starter in MLB, but wow that changeup is filthy.  And lets him get away with throwing only 92-93 upstairs.

I hope this is a fun pennant race.  Could be anywhere from the top seed to missing the playoffs.  We've got two 71-win teams, three with 70, two with 68, and a 67.  Crazy.  

  

 

 

Wrigley

Footballguy
All five from the AAA starting rotation at the start of the season are in the show now.  

Poncedeleon works a lot of deep counts, maybe too many to be a starter in MLB, but wow that changeup is filthy.  And lets him get away with throwing only 92-93 upstairs.

I hope this is a fun pennant race.  Could be anywhere from the top seed to missing the playoffs.  We've got two 71-win teams, three with 70, two with 68, and a 67.  Crazy.  

  

 
A lot like 2015

 

Encyclopedia Brown

Footballguy
Man this team is fun to watch right now.

And I love Wong making his feelings known about a gold glove. Absolutely deserves it this year.
This team looks much different since the Matheny firing.

A columnist at The Athletic wondered why the Cardinals put in a claim for Adams, but not Daniel Murphy. Acquiring Adams seems redundant. 

 

Bob Sacamano

Marc Levin groupie
Team position is they didn't want to upset what is currently a good chemistry in the clubhouse and they weren't willing to go back to sacrificing defense for an offensive add.

 

Bob Sacamano

Marc Levin groupie
Adams not redundant from the perspective of needing a Lefthanded bat on the bench, even if you don't think much of him.

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
This season, Cardinals social media has been recapping Gibson's 1968 season and McGuire's 1998 season as they happened.  So on dates where Gibby pitched in 68 or Big Mac homered in 98, they post photos or video telling the story of that day. 

GIbson 1968 reads like something beyond a video game glitch.  "On this date, Bob Gibson tossed his twenty-third complete game of the 1968 season. After losing his last start vs. Pittsburgh four days prior, Gibby got his revenge by throwing his 11th shutout of the season to go along with 14 strikeouts in an 8-0 win. Bob also drove in two runs with a single in the 4th, giving him a hit in each of his six August starts (6-22, .286 AVG).  With the victory, Gibson improved his record to 19-6 with a 1.03 ERA over 252.2 IP (28 starts)."

I think the craziest thing here is Gibson's ERA at the end of August was a buck and three cents, yet he had 6 losses.  Even crazier than him averaging over 9 innings per start.  

 

Bruce Dickinson

Footballguy
Pretty brutal schedule from here on out.  If they make it, they'll have earned it. 
Yeah could we exchange this 4-gamer with the Dodgers for two against Miami and two against San Diego?  

A 9-8 finish is 90 wins.  That should be enough to be the road team in the Wild Card game.  Just hope it won't take 5-1 over the last 8 to get there.
 

 

Bob Sacamano

Marc Levin groupie
I've generally been a fan of Shildt, but you have a rookie whose biggest issue has been finding the strike zone.  And that's who you choose to bring in with the bases juiced and 1 out?

 

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