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***Official*** 2018 World Cup thread (and Drinking Guide) (1 Viewer)

TobiasFunke said:
Some off-day questions from someone who watches maybe 20-30 non-World Cup matches every four years between Cups.  Please be gentle with me:

1.  Why do television broadcasts use the sideline angle for PKs? The angle behind the goal is way better.  Every time there's a PK it feels like I'm basically just watching to see if the ball hits the net after the kick. Then I can see what actually happened (specific placement, how close the keeper came to actually saving it or not saving it, etc.) on the behind-the-goal replay

2.  Why don't they fix extra time so they don't motivate players to fake injuries or otherwise delay proceedings?  Even before someone put out that analysis last week everyone kind of knew that they didn't add all the time they should, right?  Why not do that with every second of lost time, including every second injury timeouts and arguments about calls? Or even add time-and-a-half if in the ref's discretion one team is seeking to run clock with these tactics?

3.  Basic strategy question - I noticed England removing Dele Ali and Raheem Sterling in the second half on Tuesday, two guys that looked to my untrained eye to be two of their three best offensive weapons. I know the idea is probably to be cautious by replacing them with more defensive minded players to protect the one goal lead, but isn't this risky or short-sighted because if you do concede a tying goal you've screwed yourself out of the best chance to re-take the lead? Especially in the knockout format with 30 extra minutes on tap if you concede a tying goal? Is it more about those players running around the most and therefore getting the most fatigued?
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I feel like the manager is quite average, has little ingenuity and is doing a relatively poor job of setting up the team, from an offensive standpoint.  England had a very easy group and then drew a Colombian team that was without James Rodriguez.  

I'm amazed at the excitement in England for this team.  To me, they've been extremely boring.  Usually Dele Alli and Raheem Sterling are exciting players. That being said, I thought England were much more dangerous looking with Rashford and Vardy.

Managers routinely make "defensive" substitutions with a one-goal lead.  Yes, it's risky when there is extra time.

For me, the biggest issue with England is that they tried to sit on a 1-0 lead.  I hate when teams do that.  It's a very silly way to play, unless you happen to have an absolutely stifling defense, which England does not.

The way England were playing in the 2nd half, it really didnt' matter which offensive players they put on, nothing was gonna happen.  That only changed when they allowed the tying goal.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Thanks for the replies. 

Still struggling with this one. I'm not concerned with whether it affects who wins or loses, but with the quality of the product. I assume nobody wants faked injuries, nobody wants teams to argue about calls and with each other for five minutes, or spend three minutes jostling for position before free kicks, but these are all tactics I saw from teams protecting leads during the Round of 16.  So why not discourage these by removing some of the incentive? Right now teams with a lead justifiably know that no matter how much they stall, the refs aren't gonna add more than 4-5 minutes on at the end.  A word of warning beforehand and a few 10 minute stoppage times to show they mean business would go a long way. Or so it seems to my untrained eye.
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I agree that there hasn't been enough added time in many of these games.  If these games were played with English refs, I think you'd see some 10 minute stoppage times.  6-7 minutes happens quite a bit in England. When you throw in VAR, players arguing for VAR and the absurd time-wasting that seem more prevalent in the intl game, a case can certainly be made for it.

 
A

TobiasFunke said:
Some off-day questions from someone who watches maybe 20-30 non-World Cup matches every four years between Cups.  Please be gentle with me:

3.  Basic strategy question - I noticed England removing Dele Ali and Raheem Sterling in the second half on Tuesday, two guys that looked to my untrained eye to be two of their three best offensive weapons. I know the idea is probably to be cautious by replacing them with more defensive minded players to protect the one goal lead, but isn't this risky or short-sighted because if you do concede a tying goal you've screwed yourself out of the best chance to re-take the lead? Especially in the knockout format with 30 extra minutes on tap if you concede a tying goal? Is it more about those players running around the most and therefore getting the most fatigued?
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Dier for Alli in the 81st minute was definitely a defensive substitution. Alli missed the last group game with an injury and might not be 100%, he looked pretty gassed. Dier is a versatile defensive player who can play in midfield or in the back. I'd have to go back and look but I'm guessing the formation was switched up a bit when he came on for Alli.

Vardy is an attacking player who is 8 inches taller than Sterling. Probably not much of a change in the way they were lining up when he came on, but he's better equipped to pitch in on defense. He was only their second sub at that point, so Southgate would have known that if Colombia tied it up he still had two subs to work with to get more offense back out there. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Some off-day questions from someone who watches maybe 20-30 non-World Cup matches every four years between Cups.  Please be gentle with me:

1.  Why do television broadcasts use the sideline angle for PKs? The angle behind the goal is way better.  Every time there's a PK it feels like I'm basically just watching to see if the ball hits the net after the kick. Then I can see what actually happened (specific placement, how close the keeper came to actually saving it or not saving it, etc.) on the behind-the-goal replay

2.  Why don't they fix extra time so they don't motivate players to fake injuries or otherwise delay proceedings?  Even before someone put out that analysis last week everyone kind of knew that they didn't add all the time they should, right?  Why not do that with every second of lost time, including every second injury timeouts and arguments about calls? Or even add time-and-a-half if in the ref's discretion one team is seeking to run clock with these tactics?

3.  Basic strategy question - I noticed England removing Dele Ali and Raheem Sterling in the second half on Tuesday, two guys that looked to my untrained eye to be two of their three best offensive weapons. I know the idea is probably to be cautious by replacing them with more defensive minded players to protect the one goal lead, but isn't this risky or short-sighted because if you do concede a tying goal you've screwed yourself out of the best chance to re-take the lead? Especially in the knockout format with 30 extra minutes on tap if you concede a tying goal? Is it more about those players running around the most and therefore getting the most fatigued?
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1.  I think Sinn is probably correct (I haven't considered the question).

2.  I think this is a situation where there may be some danger of us talking past each other.  I'm not sure how you could be sure to account for every second with starting and stopping the clock, but I'm not sure that's what you're advocating.  On a larger level, the current rule is supposed to fully account for wasted time (although not all the time the ball is dead is "wasted time").  I think it's important to acknowledge that in soccer, like in other sports, sometimes things just ARE a certain way.  And it's not better or worse.  Protecting a lead (or even a draw for a less talented team) is one reason why some dead ball situations will get drawn out.  But there are other incentives even if the time is added back on.  A team ahead may still want to chop up the rhythm of the game.  Either team may have an incentive to take a breather, as the constant running and limited substitutions makes the game extremely physically demanding at the highest level.  The possibility that such hijinks may lead a referee to over or under count the time, might be a sort of disincentive to too much of that.  In a 0-0 game in the 50th minute, maybe you don't take as long a breather on free kick if that may mean you get less live ball time to make up a 1-0 deficit in the 90th minute.  

In soccer, there is always this tension between "the laws of the game" and the referee's discretion.  Just as in other sports, how a referee calls a game can have a big impact on how it flows and how behaviors are disincentivized.  I do think referees should use that discretion.  In last night's game in particular, we'd have wanted Geiger to no reward Colombia for all the bad behavior by adding that time back (until the scored right before extra time).  That's a situation where an "inaccurate" count would serve a good result.  Discouraging teams from surrounding the ref and #####ing for 5 minutes.   All of which is a long way of saying that I don't really know the "right" answer to how to best handle the question of time, but I don't have a problem with it being largely discretionary as it is now.

3.  We can argue forever about substitutions.  Managers have very limited options to really affect a game.  Substitutions are one of them, but they only get 3 (or 4 if it goes to extra-time).  It is typical that around the 70th minute or so a team in the lead will make a defensive-minded substitution and a team trailing will make an offensive-minded substitution.  But it's also true that in England's system, Sterling, Alli, and Henderson do a lot of running.  For a guy like Sterling, who relies a lot on movement and pace, the dividends tend to diminish as you approach 90 minutes.  In my opinion, Alli didn't really have that great a game yesterday and if he wasn't going to run in behind Kane with Lingard, I'm not sure he really justified sacrificing some defensive support.  I also can't remember if Alli was on a yellow card, but that's also a consideration.  Not just within the game itself, but cumulative yellow cards for the next round.  

 
Something from the Guardian on the day off: There is a cloud hanging over this World Cup and Fifa must not ignore it

Play-acting has been commonplace at this World Cup. It’s become a cancer in the game, not just a stain on it, and Fifa needs to find a cure. Either football’s world body confronts it head on, by introducing tougher penalties and urging referees to adopt a zero tolerance approach, or we hand over control to the players and resign ourselves to the fact that ####housery is now “part and parcel of the game”. What a depressing thought.
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Yeah, it's time to hand out retroactive cards and fines for that crap. He's not the only one but Neymar has been an embarrassment. I had to walk away from the TV a couple of times on Monday, it was like watching Meet the Parents or something, too awkward for me to sit through.

 
Moe. said:
Yeah, it's time to hand out retroactive cards and fines for that crap. He's not the only one but Neymar has been an embarrassment. I had to walk away from the TV a couple of times on Monday, it was like watching Meet the Parents or something, too awkward for me to sit through.
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The silver lining with Neymar is that the internet memes have been outstanding.  

 
Moe. said:
Yeah, it's time to hand out retroactive cards and fines for that crap. He's not the only one but Neymar has been an embarrassment. I had to walk away from the TV a couple of times on Monday, it was like watching Meet the Parents or something, too awkward for me to sit through.
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oh come on.

 
Maybe I'm just used to it with Neymar, but I found the playacting from England yesterday 10 times more annoying because it literally took them out of their game. 

They spent 10 minutes caring more about trying to get an opponent a second yellow or drawing another penalty ("diving" is particularly noticeable when Harry Maguire is doing it with all the grace of a 300-pound dude doing a cannonball).

 
I never get a response to my solution. Any athlete in any sport writhing in agony should be removed from play and given medical attention. Any sport. If these guys were boxing the ref would stop the fight. The beautiful game has one ugly wort, imo, and I'm passed being upset about it, but it can be fixed. Put these head grabbers in front of a physician and check of signs of concussion. Grab your ankle in horrific pain, have it poked and prodded by someone qualified to make sure there's no damage. If it turns out the athlete is okay and just had a booboo then let him return to play. Pretty sure the substitutions alone would put an end to it. No? Too harsh?

 
Here is the special one's take on diving

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/04/jose-mourinho-digs-england-defender-harry-maguire-diving-colombia-7682431/

He told Russia Today: ‘The negative thing for me was the fact, once more, it wasn’t for the first game, and I don’t think it will be the last game, I think there is exaggeration on theatre by the players. ‘Every team has lots of diving, lots of pretending, lots of putting pressure on the referee. ‘The game loses quality… and for me that was the negative point. It’s not about England and Colombia, it’s almost every match.

‘[The players] are creating such a difficult job for the referees in every match, even with VAR the players are creating problems. ‘I was surprised to see central defenders like Harry Maguire, normally he is a very honest guy, diving in the attacking box asking the referee for VAR. ‘The players should feel the responsibility of playing in the World Cup in front of billions of spectators.’

 
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Chaos Commish said:
I never get a response to my solution. Any athlete in any sport writhing in agony should be removed from play and given medical attention. Any sport. If these guys were boxing the ref would stop the fight. The beautiful game has one ugly wort, imo, and I'm passed being upset about it, but it can be fixed. Put these head grabbers in front of a physician and check of signs of concussion. Grab your ankle in horrific pain, have it poked and prodded by someone qualified to make sure there's no damage. If it turns out the athlete is okay and just had a booboo then let him return to play. Pretty sure the substitutions alone would put an end to it. No? Too harsh?
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Implement horseracing solution

:deadhorse:

-QG

 
Tough choices for this round of the fantasy contest.  Still hanging on to my boosters.

-QG

 
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Chaos Commish said:
I never get a response to my solution. Any athlete in any sport writhing in agony should be removed from play and given medical attention. Any sport. If these guys were boxing the ref would stop the fight. The beautiful game has one ugly wort, imo, and I'm passed being upset about it, but it can be fixed. Put these head grabbers in front of a physician and check of signs of concussion. Grab your ankle in horrific pain, have it poked and prodded by someone qualified to make sure there's no damage. If it turns out the athlete is okay and just had a booboo then let him return to play. Pretty sure the substitutions alone would put an end to it. No? Too harsh?
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The ref already has this power... you get hurt writhing in agony... get the stretcher. Get carried off. The ref then has to approve you to rejoin the field. He shouldn't be in a hurry to wave them back onto the field after the "injury".  So, simply wait. The players are acting cynically, the ref can too. "You seemed very hurt, seemed like it was a good thing to give you 10 minutes on the sidelines to checked out by the medical professionals. I'll wave you on after 10 minutes." The specter of playing a man down for a prolonged period of time would end this quick.  

 
this is one of those drop the mike stats :)

========

More players involved in the World Cup Quarter Finalists have played for Sunderland than Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus combined.

 
Native said:
Can someone provide a link to the Neymar meme that was posted last week, I think by @Sinn Fein ?
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I don't think I posted it - but maybe - which one?  There have been a few:

Neymar rolling down the street

Someone kicking a rolling Neymar on a counter-attack break away

Neymar rolling into the keeper who stomps him (Mashup of goalie stomping balloon)

Kids at practice when the coach yells "Neymar" they all fall down pretending to be injured

 
Sinn Fein said:
I don't think I posted it - but maybe - which one?  There have been a few:

Neymar rolling down the street

Someone kicking a rolling Neymar on a counter-attack break away

Neymar rolling into the keeper who stomps him (Mashup of goalie stomping balloon)

Kids at practice when the coach yells "Neymar" they all fall down pretending to be injured
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:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm looking for the stick figure drawing where someone kicks the ball away from Neymar and he falls on the floor!

 
Breaking news out of the England camp!!

Hendo has been ruled out of the Quarter-Final matchup with Sweden.  It seems that the Liverpool doctors have diagnosed him with a concussion, which caused him to miss the penalty.

He is expected to be fine for the start of the PL.

 
Native said:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm looking for the stick figure drawing where someone kicks the ball away from Neymar and he falls on the floor!
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The first one I saw is still my favorite. It’s an actual guy in a Neymar jersey (and with sponges on his head to simulate his haircut) dribbling on the street. He keeps alternately doing tricks on or throwing himself down in front of ordinary pedestrians. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Breaking news out of the England camp!!

Hendo has been ruled out of the Quarter-Final matchup with Sweden.  It seems that the Liverpool doctors have diagnosed him with a concussion, which caused him to miss the penalty.

He is expected to be fine for the start of the PL.
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Any reports of Sergio Ramos seen in vicinity of English training grounds or living quarters?

 
NewlyRetired said:
Here is the special one's take on diving

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/04/jose-mourinho-digs-england-defender-harry-maguire-diving-colombia-7682431/

He told Russia Today: ‘The negative thing for me was the fact, once more, it wasn’t for the first game, and I don’t think it will be the last game, I think there is exaggeration on theatre by the players. ‘Every team has lots of diving, lots of pretending, lots of putting pressure on the referee. ‘The game loses quality… and for me that was the negative point. It’s not about England and Colombia, it’s almost every match.

‘[The players] are creating such a difficult job for the referees in every match, even with VAR the players are creating problems. ‘I was surprised to see central defenders like Harry Maguire, normally he is a very honest guy, diving in the attacking box asking the referee for VAR. ‘The players should feel the responsibility of playing in the World Cup in front of billions of spectators.’
Click to expand...
I don't think there could be a blacker pot to be complaining about a black kettle

 
31 yr old striker Cristhian Stuani managed 11 goals for Middlesbrough over 2 seasons, one in the PL, then moved to Girona and found a fountain of youth in La Liga last season, scoring 21 goals. 

 
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