***Official 2019 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread*** Hope Springs Eternal? (1 Viewer)

[fred_1_15301]

Tonight was the kind of loss that kills a team like this.  You have a 4-1 lead with Polanco providing a nice spark in his return and the bullpen blows it.  To make matters worse, I assume Burdi is done for a long time.  This bullpen has to be the worst in baseball.  Scary to think how good they would be with even an average bullpen.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Seriously is anyone else here not as angry as I am about that trade?  Leeroy is gone so he doesn’t care.  Anyone else?  How many years were we waiting for Meadows (Cutch’s replacement) and Glasnow (who had better talent than even Cole) to develop?  We could have had years of control of these 2 guys and basically built a team like what the Rays have now.  And that dope just gives them away for a fringe # 3/4 starter.

I am still here. Just given up. Opinion of this trade is still the same for me regardless of what archer is doing or pirates record. I like archer and would have loved a trade like this in 2015. Not now without corresponding moves. And meadows and glasnow crushing just makes it all the worse. 

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

What is Hurdle doing pinch hitting for Tucker there. Kang is hitting about .140

 

[falguy]

Thought it made sense to ask this here. MY buddy and I are coming to Pittsburgh to watch the Phillies game on Jul 19. We've been kind of spoiled with Club seats at our other trips (Cleveland, Cincinnati)  so I was looking at the Pittsburgh Ball Club (PBC) level seating.  This has:

Club 3000 (full service bar and billiards)

Gunner's (carvery station with sandwiches made to order)

Keystone Corner (full service bar and billiards)

Am I correct in that the ticket prices listed will give you access to these services/areas but the costs are not included.  It's all pay as you go?  In Cleveland, for example, the ticket price included food and non alcoholic beverages.  The way I read it the cost at PNC just gives you the seat?

Thanks

 

[Timmypg]

And the Pirates stink again! 

 

[fred_1_15301]

And the Pirates stink again! 

This has the potential to get really ugly.  A lot of their early season success was masked by their opponents.  The bullpen is horrid and the lineup is vomit inducing.  The rotation is still solid but regression is on its way.  

 

[Plorfu]

That DBacks series was a gd horror show.

 

[Godsbrother]

That DBacks series was a gd horror show.

The Dodgers series wasn't a think of beauty either.   They finally get score some runs and the pitching poops the bed.   

 

[Godsbrother]

The Buccos finally won!  Woo Hoo!!!!

 

[fred_1_15301]

The Buccos finally won!  Woo Hoo!!!!

Don’t get too excited.  Through 3 innings they are currently being one hit by Shelby Miller.  And Taillon looking more and more like a bust rather than a breakout.  In other news around the league, Glasnow continues to dominate and turn into the ace that we hoped he would become.

 

[Godsbrother]

Don’t get too excited.  Through 3 innings they are currently being one hit by Shelby Miller.  And Taillon looking more and more like a bust rather than a breakout.  In other news around the league, Glasnow continues to dominate and turn into the ace that we hoped he would become.

Yeah I just wonder what Glasnow would be doing if he were here.   More and more I think Ray Searage's magic is gone.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Yeah I just wonder what Glasnow would be doing if he were here.   More and more I think Ray Searage's magic is gone.

I don’t think it’s so much that his magic is gone.  I think he’s a good coach for certain types of pitchers.  He’s a bad coach for other types of pitchers (eg Cole and Glasnow).  For those guys, you let their elite stuff do the work and not try to convert them into a pitch-to-contact type of pitcher.  So yeah - I agree that Glasnow (and Cole and Morton) would have never fully developed here.

 

[Godsbrother]

I don’t think it’s so much that his magic is gone.  I think he’s a good coach for certain types of pitchers.  He’s a bad coach for other types of pitchers (eg Cole and Glasnow).  For those guys, you let their elite stuff do the work and not try to convert them into a pitch-to-contact type of pitcher.  So yeah - I agree that Glasnow (and Cole and Morton) would have never fully developed here.

Well if he isn't good with your top pitching prospects that is a problem.     I think his track record is trending downward.  I know that is odd to say when the team is currently 2nd best ERA in the NL but that is due to a strong starting rotation.   I am worried about Taillon and Archer and the bullpen, outside of Vazquez and Liriano, absolutely stinks

 

[fred_1_15301]

Well if he isn't good with your top pitching prospects that is a problem.     I think his track record is trending downward.  I know that is odd to say when the team is currently 2nd best ERA in the NL but that is due to a strong starting rotation.   I am worried about Taillon and Archer and the bullpen, outside of Vazquez and Liriano, absolutely stinks

Yeah I mentioned in another post that the rotation has overperformed.  Regression is on its way and it's not going to be pretty.  They're probably still one of the better rotations in the NL but nowhere near # 1 overall.  The bullpen is atrocious.  The good news is that the lineup is getting a little healthy.  Regardless, this division is still very good and at the very best the Bucs will finish in 4th place.  

 

[Plorfu]

So, maybe Josh Bell is pretty good. 

 

[Timmypg]

Is Vazquez the best closer in baseball? For a guy that gets no attention he's unhittable. 

 

[fred_1_15301]

Is Vazquez the best closer in baseball? For a guy that gets no attention he's unhittable. 

Maybe.  Unfortunately he’s the only guy in that bullpen pitching well.

 

[fred_1_15301]

If Nick Kingham isn't already the worst starting pitcher in baseball, he's making a strong case.  To think that at one point he was a highly coveted prospect.  

 

[Timmypg]

If Nick Kingham isn't already the worst starting pitcher in baseball, he's making a strong case.  To think that at one point he was a highly coveted prospect.  

Wait until he goes somewhere else and becomes great. 

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

I drafted Daniel Murphy instead of Josh Bell.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I drafted Daniel Murphy instead of Josh Bell.

I drafted players X, Y and Z instead of Cody Bellinger.  Nobody could have predicted this type of breakout.    

 

[Godsbrother]

Wait until he goes somewhere else and becomes great. 

I sure hope not but it wouldn't surprise me.   He and Brault are looking like they don't belong in the MLB.   

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I drafted players X, Y and Z instead of Cody Bellinger.  Nobody could have predicted this type of breakout.    

I drafted Bellinger and Bell.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Opening Day!

I think we have a pretty good team. I am still really worried about the left side of the IF, but I think Bell puts it together this year. I am projecting 85 wins.

I was predicting a big breakout.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

ESPN has a story on redrafting the 2009 draft. The Sanchez pick is still leaking of the low points in recent team history.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I don’t know how this team is above.500 but I’ll take it.

 

[Godsbrother]

I don’t know how this team is above.500 but I’ll take it.

Agreed.  It is really a bummer that Trevor Williams is injured.  This team can't sustain much more.   And Rodriguez is really struggling this season...

 

[Timmypg]

How in the world is this team 4 games over 500? Also, Keller was a healthy scratch Sunday and  pushed back to Tuesday in Indy with the Pirates possibly needing a starter Wednesday. Could we see him get the call or will they use an opener again? 

 

[Godsbrother]

Even with last night's loss this team has been nothing short of amazing so far.

That said,  Archer has been a huge disappointment.  He isn't much better than Brault or Kingham at this point.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Even with last night's loss this team has been nothing short of amazing so far.

That said,  Archer has been a huge disappointment.  He isn't much better than Brault or Kingham at this point.

Yea they have been amazing but we are not even through May yet.  I feel like in baseball things tend to normalize over time more so than in any other sport.  They have so many holes it’s hard for me to envision them finishing anywhere higher than 4th in the division (and quite honestly I would be somewhat surprised if they finish ahead of the Reds who look more talented on paper).  Archer has been a disappointment and Meadows looks like a young star in the making.  That trade is going to haunt us for years because they didn’t need to do it.  Archer’s trajectory was already going downhill at the time of the trade.  I think NH fell in love with Archer years ago and wasn’t able to execute a trade.  So now he overpaid for him when it was way too late.

 

[Godsbrother]

Okay reality has set in -- the wheels have fallen off.    This pitching staff is atrocious.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I am pretty happy with the draft. Seems like a decent amount of upside.

 

[Godsbrother]

I am pretty happy with the draft. Seems like a decent amount of upside.

At the rate they're going the Pirates may need to bring them up to the majors now.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

At the rate they're going the Pirates may need to bring them up to the majors now.

I do think they need to trade off a ton of guys.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

ESPN has a story on redrafting the 2009 draft. The Sanchez pick is still leaking of the low points in recent team history.

What a bad pick. Baseball prospects seem so hard to predict though. 

 

[fred_1_15301]

Keller getting lit up for the 2nd outing in a row.  

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

What a bad pick. Baseball prospects seem so hard to predict though. 

This one was clearly bad the second they made it through. They made that pick to save money. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Bucs drop another,  now 7 in a row and firmly in last place in the division.   They do have Miami coming up but they'll likely get lit up.   

 

[fred_1_15301]

Bucs drop another,  now 7 in a row and firmly in last place in the division.   They do have Miami coming up but they'll likely get lit up.   

Ironically pitching was the strength at the beginning of the year and now it’s just plain atrocious from top to bottom.  Hitting was a problem early in the year but now they have a decent core.  

 

[fred_1_15301]

They're in the same class as the bottom feeders of the league (maybe because they are one).  5th worst run differential in the entire league.  

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

The most fragile part of the Cubs team is the bullpen. The Pirates may have exacerbated that feeling just a little bit.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

The Buccos might just be playing the best baseball in the league. 

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

The Buccos might just be playing the best baseball in the league. 

The whole division is within four games of each other. The second half is going to be intense. The only team I think will fade is St. Louis. The other four will be in it to the end. 

 

[Godsbrother]

The whole division is within four games of each other. The second half is going to be intense. The only team I think will fade is St. Louis. The other four will be in it to the end. 

It will be great to see Nutting and Huntington go all in at the trading deadline to make a push to win the division.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

The weekend series between the Cubs and Pirates is going to be interesting. There has been some bad blood over the past few years. No one is quite sure what exactly has kept it going, but I heard a couple of theories.

The first: Pirates are still angry over Chris Coghlan fracturing Jung Ho Kang's leg in what they perceive was a dirty slide at 2nd base.

The second: Before the 2015 one-game playoff, Jake Arrieta went on Twitter and pretty much guaranteed a Cubs win, which rankled some of the old-school Pirates (and Hurdle).  

 

[Godsbrother]

The weekend series between the Cubs and Pirates is going to be interesting. There has been some bad blood over the past few years. No one is quite sure what exactly has kept it going, but I heard a couple of theories.

The first: Pirates are still angry over Chris Coghlan fracturing Jung Ho Kang's leg in what they perceive was a dirty slide at 2nd base.

The second: Before the 2015 one-game playoff, Jake Arrieta went on Twitter and pretty much guaranteed a Cubs win, which rankled some of the old-school Pirates (and Hurdle).  

Both are factors for sure from the Prates perspective and I think the first was made even worse by Joe Maddon's comments immediately after the injury.

I think what keeps it going from the Cubs side is they have this feeling of superiority over the Pirates and don't like it when the Bucs just don't roll over.  Case in point was Maddon's pissy-fit over the Lyles inside pitch BS.    Maddon's claims were baseless and he was screaming at Hurdle but obviously took a path that would never get him face to face with the Pirates manager.

I am thinking that Maddon is aware that his team is badly under performing and is only 2.5 games over a team that has been beleaguered with injuries and has a payroll that is one third of his team.

I don't expect the Pirates to make the playoffs this season but it would be great to see them finish ahead of this bozo's team.

 

[Godsbrother]

Well THAT was a disappointing series with the the Cubs.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I wonder if the Pirates could get anything in return for Archer.  They need to be sellers.  

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

They need to be sellers.  

Maybe a way to heal the rift between the Cubs and Pirates is to make a trade that benefits both teams. 

The Cubs need a 2B and leadoff hitter. The Pirates need a starting catcher. 

Victor Caratini for Adam Frazier would work for both teams. 

 

[fred_1_15301]

Maybe a way to heal the rift between the Cubs and Pirates is to make a trade that benefits both teams. 

The Cubs need a 2B and leadoff hitter. The Pirates need a starting catcher. 

Victor Caratini for Adam Frazier would work for both teams. 

If the Contreras injury is serious, that could put a damper on that trade.