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*** Official 2022 PGA Tour Thread - Memorial Tournament, LIV list leaked- It's all Paulina's Fault **** (1 Viewer)

Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.
 
It was always inevitable. IMO.
Yeah, it was inevitable when Mickelson and the others took all that money to go to LIV to help facilitate the ultimate Saudi endgame: leveraging that second rate car wash of a product into a massive stake in the PGA Tour. LIV is toast after this year. The only silver lining is that Greg Norman will be irrelevant again.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

Isn't the lifecycle of the pga player pretty short? I mean there are a dozen guys that had a good year and then tread water. (Spieth being most obvious example
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

If you don't agree that some of the best golfers on the PGA deflected to LIV then we will just not see eye to eye on this. I think this outcome was inevitable. Agree to disagree if you like but here we are and it's not the LIV that looks bad here, nor the "frat bros".
 
It was always inevitable. IMO.
Yeah, it was inevitable when Mickelson and the others took all that money to go to LIV to help facilitate the ultimate Saudi endgame: leveraging that second rate car wash of a product into a massive stake in the PGA Tour. LIV is toast after this year. The only silver lining is that Greg Norman will be irrelevant again.

The Saudis just bought the PGA is the way I look at this.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

If you don't agree that some of the best golfers on the PGA deflected to LIV then we will just not see eye to eye on this. I think this outcome was inevitable. Agree to disagree if you like but here we are and it's not the LIV that looks bad here, nor the "frat bros".
I guess a couple qualifies as some, so sure. :shrug: At the time that Koepka left, though, nobody cared that he was gone, as he was largely irrelevant. Same with DJ. Smith was really the only one who left while at the top of his game (and he has ironically done pretty much nothing since). As for the rest, they're mostly has-been's or wannabe's. Phil, Poulter, Stenson.... all past their prime. Varner, Na, Oosthuizen, etc. All guys who (mostly) couldn't get it done on tour when it mattered. So, yeah, if you're way past your prime, or you're simply one of those guys who probably won't win more than once or twice in your career, it makes sense to take whatever money you can get. At least Varner had the balls to admit it.

I understand why it happened, but I guess I'm just not that excited about it. I was kind of looking forward to the train-wreck that was forming, and curious to see how all of the litigation was going to play out. Meanwhile, the LIV product was/is a complete disaster, and the PGA hasn't really missed a beat. But, I guess money fixes (or trumps) everything in sports, so it is what it is. Now, I guess I'm curious to see how it all works out, but in a different way than before.
 
I do find it interesting that they made absolutely no mention of Greg Norman in this morning's press conference. Until someone asked about him, to which they replied that he'd been notified along with the rest of the stakeholders. Certainly doesn't sound like he's going to be much of a player in this thing, going forward.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.
do you play golf? this is so far from us degen golfers but I don’t want to pick this apart. Phil won the players at 50, you can’t dismiss that. JT, Jordan and Rory are the biggest frat boys ever, i’m sorry man but as 47 year old golf degenerate who played 4 times a week and is in a few clubs you are way off. I can make an assumption (*** out of me) but my guess is you are in your mid to upper 50’s.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.
also Justin Rose just won at pebble beach, you’re way off on all of this. Nieman won the genesis before leaving and mito pereira choked away the pga championship last year before leaving. the Liv roster is solid
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

Isn't the lifecycle of the pga player pretty short? I mean there are a dozen guys that had a good year and then tread water. (Spieth being most obvious example
Spieth? no, he is a very bad example. Most of these guys that get their tour card either do great or burn out fast
 
I do find it interesting that they made absolutely no mention of Greg Norman in this morning's press conference. Until someone asked about him, to which they replied that he'd been notified along with the rest of the stakeholders. Certainly doesn't sound like he's going to be much of a player in this thing, going forward.

Just a $266M line item in the financials at this point. Yasir Al Rumayyan called him a few minutes before he went on CNBC with Monahan to announce the deal.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.
do you play golf? this is so far from us degen golfers but I don’t want to pick this apart. Phil won the players at 50, you can’t dismiss that. JT, Jordan and Rory are the biggest frat boys ever, i’m sorry man but as 47 year old golf degenerate who played 4 times a week and is in a few clubs you are way off. I can make an assumption (*** out of me) but my guess is you are in your mid to upper 50’s.

To answer your question I'm 40 and spend more time on golf forums/subreddits than I do here, and of course plenty of time on the course.

To each their own of course. In my interactions there were as many people glad their least favorite golfers were gone than there were that missed those guys. Especially when some of them doubled down on their douchiness after leaving (the days of revering Phil Mickelson are long gone whether he's on the PGA tour or not).

Phil's PGA Championship win was magical but it was his only top 20 finish in 2+ years at the time. There are a never ending supply of guys on the PGA tour that can play like crap all year but put together one really good weekend. Obviously with Phil's name it made it very different but that was an aberration.

None of these guys we're talking about were playing well when they left. None of them were like Rory, Scheffler, Hovland, etc that are considered a legit contender to win on Saturday in 8 out of every 10 events they play. They were all playing like crap 90% of the time, other than the occasional weekend once or twice that year they showed up. After Phil's PGA win the 4 guys we're talking about (DJ, Phil, Brooks, Bryson) had the following stats combined prior to them leaving for LIV.

Events played: 77
Wins: 0
Top Five: 4
Missed Cut: 26

Yeah they were great before, but they hadn't been truly relevant in terms of competing for a while. You can pick a random 3rd tier player at the time and they would blow those guys out of the water. Xander Schauffele, for instance, who is far from a top tier player, had done more in the preceeding year than all those guys combined.

Events played: 23
Wins: 2
Top Five: 9
Missed Cut: 1

The only difference in watching an event when those guys left compared to the year preceeding their departure was you no longer got the little 30 second cutaway on Sunday (or Friday) afternoon to show DJ/Bryson/Brooks/Phil tap in on 18 to finish tied for 46th place at +14.

That's all I'm saying. They all had times they were great but they were all non factors when they left. Brooks was injury, I get it, but not much really changed at the time. And the ratings bear that out as PGA ratings were great, LIV ratings were garbage (can anyone even name the team that DJ or Brooks were on in LIV without looking it up?), and the PGA Championship ratings were the lowest in 5 years despite everyone allegedly clamoring to see a field that contained "all the best players".

I'd rather watch Hovland and Scheffler (who were nobodies at the time that LIV rumors first started swirling) than the entire LIV roster and I doubt that is a minority opinion (certainly isn't in the communities I'm in).

And let's be honest here, and I think we can agree on this. It was worth giving up all those guys to LIV just for them to take Patrick Reed away with them. I'll take Brooks and Cam back but the entire rest of them are not worth having to see Patrick Reed every week again.
 
i’ll agree with you on patrick reed, he and Rory can go play their own tour and see who can cheat/lie their way through their tourneys. It was just last year at this tourney at DJ said he was leaving for LIV after and Brooksie was still team PGA.

I need to take a break from tv golf and concentrate on my own game, i’m moving closer to a 13 than a 10.

I guess i’ll never understand the pga tour fan die hards that live on the “they were past their prime” stance when the last 2 majors prove that to be wrong.

The video of Rory and brooks leaving the club house after the players and brooks telling rory he’d call him in a bit proved this was all media driven, the golfers themselves didn’t give a **** and all were still friends.

it kills me that P reed was part of the 3 of the top 6 at the masters from LIV.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

Isn't the lifecycle of the pga player pretty short? I mean there are a dozen guys that had a good year and then tread water. (Spieth being most obvious example
Spieth? no, he is a very bad example. Most of these guys that get their tour card either do great or burn out fast

We are at the point where spieth has spent more than half his career at 50+ awgr are we not? I know he had a few points he surfaced for air this year but that's about all you can say. Spieth would have been a great liv guy and missed a big payday.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

Isn't the lifecycle of the pga player pretty short? I mean there are a dozen guys that had a good year and then tread water. (Spieth being most obvious example
Spieth? no, he is a very bad example. Most of these guys that get their tour card either do great or burn out fast

We are at the point where spieth has spent more than half his career at 50+ awgr are we not? I know he had a few points he surfaced for air this year but that's about all you can say. Spieth would have been a great liv guy and missed a big payday.
He was headed towards Duvall territory but he figured out his swing change and is now a major threat every week. Spieth is +2500 to win the US open which puts him as one of the 10 favorites to win, when in doubt Vegas odds we’ll paint the story for someone. He’s still under 30 and back to a top 15 player.

Rickie is the one that probably should have left and taken the 75 million offered but he’s starting to find his game as well. plus rickie married the cal berkeley pole vaulter
 
stolen from reddit:

This really gives off the vibes of:

“Did you pay off the flight crew?”

“No I bought the whole airline”
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

If you don't agree that some of the best golfers on the PGA deflected to LIV then we will just not see eye to eye on this. I think this outcome was inevitable. Agree to disagree if you like but here we are and it's not the LIV that looks bad here, nor the "frat bros".
I guess a couple qualifies as some, so sure. :shrug: At the time that Koepka left, though, nobody cared that he was gone, as he was largely irrelevant. Same with DJ. Smith was really the only one who left while at the top of his game (and he has ironically done pretty much nothing since). As for the rest, they're mostly has-been's or wannabe's. Phil, Poulter, Stenson.... all past their prime. Varner, Na, Oosthuizen, etc. All guys who (mostly) couldn't get it done on tour when it mattered. So, yeah, if you're way past your prime, or you're simply one of those guys who probably won't win more than once or twice in your career, it makes sense to take whatever money you can get. At least Varner had the balls to admit it.

I understand why it happened, but I guess I'm just not that excited about it. I was kind of looking forward to the train-wreck that was forming, and curious to see how all of the litigation was going to play out. Meanwhile, the LIV product was/is a complete disaster, and the PGA hasn't really missed a beat. But, I guess money fixes (or trumps) everything in sports, so it is what it is. Now, I guess I'm curious to see how it all works out, but in a different way than before.

Brooks strolled in and won the PGA. Phil was 2nd in the Masters. There are some damn fine golfers who deflected to LIV. This sport isn't dominated by Tiger anymore. Hasn't been for a long time. The field is deeper and more talented than it has ever been - thanks in large part to Tiger.

Kopeka was never irrelevant. I think that's an absurd statement. He was hurt then had some mental issues to work through.

We all have our opinions but I think the narrative that most of the LIV golfers were washed up or no longer elite is asinine. Time will tell. Don't bet on the LIV guys if you don't buy them any longer. I'll gladly take discounted prices on them while available. :shrug:
 
Money remains undefeated.
Sad but true

I didn't like golf much to start with, did enjoy Tiger when he was young. The obsession with money, it's one of the many reasons I like to play tennis vs golf.
I think it's disgusting what the PGA did merging with LIV and it proves that most folks either don't remember or know NOTHING about the murder of Kashoggi and how it was carried out.

I don't want to drag this into politics and in fact we cannot in here but I find it disturbing to say the least what has unfolded between the PGA and LIV, it feels like a drama/play unfolded the last 2-3 years and it was all fake outrage by the PGA officials.

People should all go have a sit in on these golf courses around the country and make things very uncomfortable for all golf fans in this country.
Empty Galleries would be a welcome site but instead we are going to see tons of people walking around with Bud Light cups in their hands and PGA-LIV swag all over them.
 
I've been playing golf regularly for 30+ years. I've always kept up with the PGA and didn't like what LIV did (but was happy they took some d-bags with them).

I don't like sports washing in soccer and I really don't like it in golf. This is like the Saudi's instead of buying Newcastle buying (a piece of) the entire PL.

I'm done with the PGA now. I don't watch a whole lot anyway, but now I'm done.
 
I can't help but think that the PGA was either worried about their legal position or that a new round of defections was coming. They caved, sold their soul, and it now looks like all they cared about was money the whole time. The product, namely golf, was irrelevant.
 
I've been playing golf regularly for 30+ years. I've always kept up with the PGA and didn't like what LIV did (but was happy they took some d-bags with them).

I don't like sports washing in soccer and I really don't like it in golf. This is like the Saudi's instead of buying Newcastle buying (a piece of) the entire PL.

I'm done with the PGA now. I don't watch a whole lot anyway, but now I'm done.
Agreed. I'm out.
 
Well.....at least we can put all this drama behind us and move on with a unified field. The guys saying they'll never watch golf again; I can respect that view. I'll continue to watch and wager.

I like Tyrell Hatton to win this week.
 
I can't help but think that the PGA was either worried about their legal position or that a new round of defections was coming. They caved, sold their soul, and it now looks like all they cared about was money the whole time. The product, namely golf, was irrelevant.

This was FIGJAMs point all along.

When these rumors started during the PGA I didn't give them one second of thought. Seemed so far fetched, but back of my mind I was like you know if these people are as evil as Phil says they might just go for it.

We now have a 503b company that is owned by the architects of 9/11. Neat.
 
I didn't give a **** who ran it 5 years ago. I didn't give a **** last year. I don't see why I should give a **** now.

Are the golfers good and fun to watch? Is the broadcast any good? If yes and yes, I'll continue to watch the same amount.
 
I didn't give a **** who ran it 5 years ago. I didn't give a **** last year. I don't see why I should give a **** now.

Are the golfers good and fun to watch? Is the broadcast any good? If yes and yes, I'll continue to watch the same amount.

It would be splendid if they could also begin TV coverage when the event begins. I have to wait until noon to watch the Canadian Open today? GTFO with that. And no, I'm not paying for streaming services. I pay for cable. I pay for the golf channel. Put the sport on earlier.
 
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Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

If you don't agree that some of the best golfers on the PGA deflected to LIV then we will just not see eye to eye on this. I think this outcome was inevitable. Agree to disagree if you like but here we are and it's not the LIV that looks bad here, nor the "frat bros".
I guess a couple qualifies as some, so sure. :shrug: At the time that Koepka left, though, nobody cared that he was gone, as he was largely irrelevant. Same with DJ. Smith was really the only one who left while at the top of his game (and he has ironically done pretty much nothing since). As for the rest, they're mostly has-been's or wannabe's. Phil, Poulter, Stenson.... all past their prime. Varner, Na, Oosthuizen, etc. All guys who (mostly) couldn't get it done on tour when it mattered. So, yeah, if you're way past your prime, or you're simply one of those guys who probably won't win more than once or twice in your career, it makes sense to take whatever money you can get. At least Varner had the balls to admit it.

I understand why it happened, but I guess I'm just not that excited about it. I was kind of looking forward to the train-wreck that was forming, and curious to see how all of the litigation was going to play out. Meanwhile, the LIV product was/is a complete disaster, and the PGA hasn't really missed a beat. But, I guess money fixes (or trumps) everything in sports, so it is what it is. Now, I guess I'm curious to see how it all works out, but in a different way than before.

Brooks strolled in and won the PGA. Phil was 2nd in the Masters. There are some damn fine golfers who deflected to LIV. This sport isn't dominated by Tiger anymore. Hasn't been for a long time. The field is deeper and more talented than it has ever been - thanks in large part to Tiger.

Kopeka was never irrelevant. I think that's an absurd statement. He was hurt then had some mental issues to work through.

We all have our opinions but I think the narrative that most of the LIV golfers were washed up or no longer elite is asinine. Time will tell. Don't bet on the LIV guys if you don't buy them any longer. I'll gladly take discounted prices on them while available. :shrug:
We can argue over whether or not the word "irrelevant" is accurate or not, but the fact is that, when Koepka left for LIV in June of last year, he was not the same guy who had gone on his majors tear from 2017-19. Not even close to the same player. And, yeah, a lot of it was health/injury related. All I'm saying is he wasn't exactly in his prime. He hadn't won in almost a year and a half, and hadn't won a major in 3 years. Maybe not completely irrelevant, but definitely closer to a non-factor than contender.

Phil backed his way into a 2nd-place tie at the Masters. He was never in contention in that tournament, and was barely mentioned in Sunday's coverage. I'd bet my next paycheck (or five) that Phil never wins anything of relevance again (and no, some gimmicky team event on LIV doesn't count as relevant).

All I'm saying is this. The PGA tour made this deal for a few reasons, one of them being that the current model, with the elevated events and higher payouts, was not sustainable under the current structure. But, in terms of players leaving for LIV, I think the PGA was far more worried about the guys that they COULD lose than the ones that had already left. Nobody cares about Reed, DeChambeau, or any of the others I mentioned previously. As much as winning the PGA at 50 was a nice story, Phil is past his prime. That can't be argued. And, while Koepka's comeback has been impressive, the PGA wouldn't make this deal for one guy. If they could hypothetically close the door on LIV last week, I think they would gladly take things as they were, if they were guaranteed nobody else could leave. But, the risk of losing MORE guys (Thomas, Spieth, Rahm, Scheffler) is significant. They had to do something. It's just unfortunate for Monahan that he said the things he did, especially about families of 9/11, as he now looks like a complete a-hole, and I'm not sure he can repair that, or the fact that he betrayed those who were "loyal" to the tour. That will be his legacy.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.
That's a huuuuuuuuge stretch. I admire Scheffler for his skill, but the dude has the charisma of a slug. And Zalatoris is a great ball striker who is famous for coming close in majors without winning one. How many wins does he have on tour? One. The St. Jude Classic. Big deal. He is probably the worst putter I've ever seen in professional golf. He'll never be a good enough putter to rack up wins.

You are discounting the LIV players. Cam Smith is an absolute star in his prime. Koepka is a huge star and much bigger draw than Scheffler. Dude at least has something to say. When he's healthy he has more ice water in his veins than anyone not named Tiger. He'll win a lot more majors. And to think Bryson is done at his age is short sighted IMO. He's already dropped the bulk, still has the length, is healthy, and will figure it out. He'll do a whole lot more winning. DJ is past his prime but will still contend - he did win LIV events and lead his team to victory. Several other very good players. Louie, etc. As much as I hate Patrick Reed he's still an elite player. And Niemann has light years more potential than Zalatoris if you ask me. If you want to look at players struggling look at the PGA Tour. Spieth and Fowler haven't been themselves in years, though the latter is hopefully close to being back. With the LIV guys out of the picture, Rahm, Rory and Scheffler have dominated.

No doubt about it the PGA Tour has many more elite golfers than LIV. Love guys like Sam Burns, Hovland and others. But the top tier LIV guys are every bit as good.
 
Because some of the best golfers on the planet were playing there regularly, ratings or not. You can't just continue on as if everything is hunky dory when the game's very best players aren't yours anymore. And with pockets that deep, the LIV weren't in any danger of going belly up like the USFL or whatever alt league you want to cite. The lawsuits going away is good for everybody. And I don't think it helped guys like Rory who were forced to take on a role that he never asked for but some elite player needed to be the spokesperson for the PGA.

I'll have to read more about it, but I always felt like a resolution was coming.

Meh, I don't really buy into the "best players in the world" stuff. Cam Smith was the only one that was even consistently relevant leading up to his LIV departure. DJ, Brooks, Bryson, and Phil had a combined ONE Top 5 finish in the 15 months leading up to their LIV departure, and they missed almost half the cuts of the events they were in. Obviously Brooks was hurt and is back in form now, but the other guys would be like losing Justin Rose or some mediocre tour player like that. Like yeah they were good once, but they kind of suck now, other than the odd weekend once per year where they play well.

Again, other than Brooks, but he's not a super popular guy and when he left people didn't really even care.

And that's the bigger thing. The PGA tour still had all the popular guys. Other than Cam Smith, most of the LIV guys are the frat bros that people don't really care to root for. It took like 6 weeks for Scottie Scheffler and Will Zalatoris (pre back injury) to be more popular than the entire LIV roster to most golf fans.

If you don't agree that some of the best golfers on the PGA deflected to LIV then we will just not see eye to eye on this. I think this outcome was inevitable. Agree to disagree if you like but here we are and it's not the LIV that looks bad here, nor the "frat bros".
I guess a couple qualifies as some, so sure. :shrug: At the time that Koepka left, though, nobody cared that he was gone, as he was largely irrelevant. Same with DJ. Smith was really the only one who left while at the top of his game (and he has ironically done pretty much nothing since). As for the rest, they're mostly has-been's or wannabe's. Phil, Poulter, Stenson.... all past their prime. Varner, Na, Oosthuizen, etc. All guys who (mostly) couldn't get it done on tour when it mattered. So, yeah, if you're way past your prime, or you're simply one of those guys who probably won't win more than once or twice in your career, it makes sense to take whatever money you can get. At least Varner had the balls to admit it.

I understand why it happened, but I guess I'm just not that excited about it. I was kind of looking forward to the train-wreck that was forming, and curious to see how all of the litigation was going to play out. Meanwhile, the LIV product was/is a complete disaster, and the PGA hasn't really missed a beat. But, I guess money fixes (or trumps) everything in sports, so it is what it is. Now, I guess I'm curious to see how it all works out, but in a different way than before.

Brooks strolled in and won the PGA. Phil was 2nd in the Masters. There are some damn fine golfers who deflected to LIV. This sport isn't dominated by Tiger anymore. Hasn't been for a long time. The field is deeper and more talented than it has ever been - thanks in large part to Tiger.

Kopeka was never irrelevant. I think that's an absurd statement. He was hurt then had some mental issues to work through.

We all have our opinions but I think the narrative that most of the LIV golfers were washed up or no longer elite is asinine. Time will tell. Don't bet on the LIV guys if you don't buy them any longer. I'll gladly take discounted prices on them while available. :shrug:
We can argue over whether or not the word "irrelevant" is accurate or not, but the fact is that, when Koepka left for LIV in June of last year, he was not the same guy who had gone on his majors tear from 2017-19. Not even close to the same player. And, yeah, a lot of it was health/injury related. All I'm saying is he wasn't exactly in his prime. He hadn't won in almost a year and a half, and hadn't won a major in 3 years. Maybe not completely irrelevant, but definitely closer to a non-factor than contender.

Phil backed his way into a 2nd-place tie at the Masters. He was never in contention in that tournament, and was barely mentioned in Sunday's coverage. I'd bet my next paycheck (or five) that Phil never wins anything of relevance again (and no, some gimmicky team event on LIV doesn't count as relevant).

All I'm saying is this. The PGA tour made this deal for a few reasons, one of them being that the current model, with the elevated events and higher payouts, was not sustainable under the current structure. But, in terms of players leaving for LIV, I think the PGA was far more worried about the guys that they COULD lose than the ones that had already left. Nobody cares about Reed, DeChambeau, or any of the others I mentioned previously. As much as winning the PGA at 50 was a nice story, Phil is past his prime. That can't be argued. And, while Koepka's comeback has been impressive, the PGA wouldn't make this deal for one guy. If they could hypothetically close the door on LIV last week, I think they would gladly take things as they were, if they were guaranteed nobody else could leave. But, the risk of losing MORE guys (Thomas, Spieth, Rahm, Scheffler) is significant. They had to do something. It's just unfortunate for Monahan that he said the things he did, especially about families of 9/11, as he now looks like a complete a-hole, and I'm not sure he can repair that, or the fact that he betrayed those who were "loyal" to the tour. That will be his legacy.

I care about Bryson DeChambeau. I do not care about Fat Reed, but I just think he's an awful human. DeChambeau is at least interesting, even if he's a bit weird. He was a major story in golf prior to his deflection, so we're going to disagree on him.

Koepka is a better golfer than Rory. Rory hasn't won a major since 2014. Brooks has 5 of those during Rory's drought. So we're going to continue to disagree on his 'relevance'. He certainly seemed to 'find something' during his sabbatical.

Yes, Phil is old. Yes, Phil is past his prime. No question his better days of golf are behind him. He still finished 2nd in the Masters (tied, ironically, with Brooksie!). Dude shot a 65. That's impressive especially at his age.
 

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