***official 2024/25 women’s college bball thread*** paige gets her title and will soon be beat up and abused in the wnba (3 Viewers)

[TheAristocrat]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

 

[bigbottom]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

 

[bigbottom]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

Precisely. That’s why I’m suggesting that perhaps it would be better for Angel to model her game after Rodman’s instead of trying to be a scorer. Forget about the double doubles. Focus on grabbing every board possible and shut down defense.

 

[pollardsvision]

I am surprised that Reese didn’t use the Olympic break to sharpen up her game, specifically her shooting. What did she have to do over that break? Nothing, really. So hit the gym and work on your short game near the basket. But …maybe it’ll click more next season.

It's pretty perplexing.

It sounds like she's had some weird coaching in the past.

And apparently, she was a guard in highschool before a growth spurt, which seems surprising.

I'd assume it'll take a full off-season with the right coaching to get it going in the right direction.

For this season coming right out of college, Spoon probably just wants her to focus on what she does best and deal with the shot/finishing in the off-season.

The question is, (at what point) does it hamper the team? Or are they out of the playoff race?

They are still in the 8 seed, but I said a week ago I'm pretty sure they're going to lose that spot.

But I absolutely don't think it's because of Angel. Her shooting is bad, but she makes a huge positive impact on the team. Again, 18th in the league in win shares despite the shooting percentage.

They're going to lose the 8 seed because they don't have enough shooting or a true PG.

This team is in a total rebuild. They were never supposed to make a playoff push this year, and then they traded away their only outside shooter.

Angel and Kardoso are great young tandem and they're going to be a force one day, but it's not going to be this year.

Although they will gut out some ugly wins like they almost did against Connecticut and Vegas this week.

 

[pollardsvision]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

Precisely. That’s why I’m suggesting that perhaps it would be better for Angel to model her game after Rodman’s instead of trying to be a scorer. Forget about the double doubles. Focus on grabbing every board possible and shut down defense.

Watching her, I think that's basically what she's doing.

I don't really notice her trying to force much offense. With all the offensive rebounds she gets, she just happens to be near the basket a lot with the ball in her hands.
She has a very quick second jump so generally her trying to put it back would make sense.

It definitely seems like she needs to slow it down a little sometimes though.

Other teams are trying to keep her off the glass, so she does have a bad habit of pulling down an offensive rebound with three people right around her, and immediately trying to put it back up. And often that goes poorly.

Hopefully she'll get better about that.

 

[bigbottom]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

Precisely. That’s why I’m suggesting that perhaps it would be better for Angel to model her game after Rodman’s instead of trying to be a scorer. Forget about the double doubles. Focus on grabbing every board possible and shut down defense.

Watching her, I think that's basically what she's doing.

I don't really notice her trying to force much offense. With all the offensive rebounds she gets, she just happens to be near the basket a lot with the ball in her hands.
She has a very quick second jump so generally her trying to put it back would make sense.

It definitely seems like she needs to slow it down a little sometimes though.

Other teams are trying to keep her off the glass, so she does have a bad habit of pulling down an offensive rebound with three people right around her, and immediately trying to put it back up. And often that goes poorly.

Hopefully she'll get better about that.

You know better than I do for sure. I’ll just note that she is averaging 12.3 shot attempts per game (third most on the team and WAY more than the player in 4th), while Rodman’s career average was 5.8 shot attempts per game (with his highest season being 8.6 in his second year with the Pistons). Maybe if they get some better shooters, Angel will be able to pass off more.

Edit: And of course there is the notable game where she was calling for the ball with time expiring so she could keep her double double streak intact even though she was triple covered.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Even Angel's biggest fans know she has a lot of work to do on the offensive end.

You mean the ones saying, with a straight face no less, that she's in the running for ROY?

She's basically Charles Oakley at this point. A nice player to have on the floor, sure. But c'mon.

Some of the reaction isn't really about her, it's about the level of nonsense about her.

 

[bigbottom]

Even Angel's biggest fans know she has a lot of work to do on the offensive end.

You mean the ones saying, with a straight face no less, that she's in the running for ROY?

She's basically Charles Oakley at this point. A nice player to have on the floor, sure. But c'mon.

Some of the reaction isn't really about her, it's about the level of nonsense about her.

She had 22 rebounds the other night and is leading the league in rebounding as a 22 year old rookie. And even if you remove the offensive rebounds off her own misses, she is still second in the league at worst, and probably still first. That is pretty darn impressive for a rookie. That said, I agree that the award is Caitlin’s far and away.

 

[pollardsvision]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

Precisely. That’s why I’m suggesting that perhaps it would be better for Angel to model her game after Rodman’s instead of trying to be a scorer. Forget about the double doubles. Focus on grabbing every board possible and shut down defense.

Watching her, I think that's basically what she's doing.

I don't really notice her trying to force much offense. With all the offensive rebounds she gets, she just happens to be near the basket a lot with the ball in her hands.
She has a very quick second jump so generally her trying to put it back would make sense.

It definitely seems like she needs to slow it down a little sometimes though.

Other teams are trying to keep her off the glass, so she does have a bad habit of pulling down an offensive rebound with three people right around her, and immediately trying to put it back up. And often that goes poorly.

Hopefully she'll get better about that.

You know better than I do for sure. I’ll just note that she is averaging 12.3 shot attempts per game (third most on the team and WAY more than the player in 4th), while Rodman’s career average was 5.8 shot attempts per game (with his highest season being 8.6 in his second year with the Pistons). Maybe if they get some better shooters, Angel will be able to pass off more.

Edit: And of course there is the notable game where she was calling for the ball with time expiring so she could keep her double double streak intact even though she was triple covered.

Actually, she's 2nd now that Mabrey got traded.

I would say it's more of a function of the team makeup than her looking to score. This roster is just a mess. A lovable mess, IMO, but a mess. Chennedy takes the most shots. She was out of the league last year, and it looked like her career might be over. They picked her up off the street, she started the year on the bench, and now she carries the team offensively. That's pretty telling.

The only people on the team getting consistent minutes are Angel, Chennedy and Kardoso, now that she's healthy. With the rest, it looks different every night as Spoon is trying to figure out what works (it took a month to get Chennedy in the starting lineup).

The point is, she's not playing with Jordan/Pippen or Isaiah/Dumars. She gets a lot of shots because she's out there alot, and there's no consistent go to offensive player on the team outside of Chennedy.

And they absolutely need her out there a lot. Most teams would want that motor/rebounding/defense out there a lot, but the Sky especially. It's a team being carried by a not-highly touted rookie (talking WNBA draft capital, not fan following) and a player that was out of the league.

The calling for the ball thing to keep the double-double streak alive was a bad look, for sure. Although, as these things go, I don't think it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be.
I'm sure she cares about the double-doubles, but I haven't felt like it influenced her play, outside of that moment.

I could be wrong. I'm biased. I like the kid, so I chalk it up to a bad moment.

 

[bigbottom]

Rodman was also a defensive menace. If I'm not mistaken in the Jordan documentary, he said that after his first year he knew he had to focus on defense and rebounding to stay in the league. Seemed to work out for him.

Exactly. Given Angel’s motor, focusing on defensive prowess to complement her rebounding skills would seem to be a great role for her. May be more productive than trying to learn how to be a shooter at this point in her career. She’s a 43% shooter at 1-5 feet from the basket.

eh, Rodman would get the rebound and kick the ball out where as Angel throws it back up over and over again with no kick out.

Precisely. That’s why I’m suggesting that perhaps it would be better for Angel to model her game after Rodman’s instead of trying to be a scorer. Forget about the double doubles. Focus on grabbing every board possible and shut down defense.

Watching her, I think that's basically what she's doing.

I don't really notice her trying to force much offense. With all the offensive rebounds she gets, she just happens to be near the basket a lot with the ball in her hands.
She has a very quick second jump so generally her trying to put it back would make sense.

It definitely seems like she needs to slow it down a little sometimes though.

Other teams are trying to keep her off the glass, so she does have a bad habit of pulling down an offensive rebound with three people right around her, and immediately trying to put it back up. And often that goes poorly.

Hopefully she'll get better about that.

You know better than I do for sure. I’ll just note that she is averaging 12.3 shot attempts per game (third most on the team and WAY more than the player in 4th), while Rodman’s career average was 5.8 shot attempts per game (with his highest season being 8.6 in his second year with the Pistons). Maybe if they get some better shooters, Angel will be able to pass off more.

Edit: And of course there is the notable game where she was calling for the ball with time expiring so she could keep her double double streak intact even though she was triple covered.

Actually, she's 2nd now that Mabrey got traded.

I would say it's more of a function of the team makeup than her looking to score. This roster is just a mess. A lovable mess, IMO, but a mess. Chennedy takes the most shots. She was out of the league last year, and it looked like her career might be over. They picked her up off the street, she started the year on the bench, and now she carries the team offensively. That's pretty telling.

The only people on the team getting consistent minutes are Angel, Chennedy and Kardoso, now that she's healthy. With the rest, it looks different every night as Spoon is trying to figure out what works (it took a month to get Chennedy in the starting lineup).

The point is, she's not playing with Jordan/Pippen or Isaiah/Dumars. She gets a lot of shots because she's out there alot, and there's no consistent go to offensive player on the team outside of Chennedy.

And they absolutely need her out there a lot. Most teams would want that motor/rebounding/defense out there a lot, but the Sky especially. It's a team being carried by a not-highly touted rookie (talking WNBA draft capital, not fan following) and a player that was out of the league.

The calling for the ball thing to keep the double-double streak alive was a bad look, for sure. Although, as these things go, I don't think it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be.
I'm sure she cares about the double-doubles, but I haven't felt like it influenced her play, outside of that moment.

I could be wrong. I'm biased. I like the kid, so I chalk it up to a bad moment.

I think that is totally fair. And as I mentioned up above, perhaps she will be able to pass off more when they get some decent scorers on the team. I hate that she’s become a bit of a laughing stock with compilation videos of her layup misses and such.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

She had 22 rebounds the other night and is leading the league in rebounding as a 22 year old rookie. And even if you remove the offensive rebounds off her own misses, she is still second in the league at worst, and probably still first. That is pretty darn impressive for a rookie. That said, I agree that the award is Caitlin’s far and away.

Oakley was the 2nd leading rebounder in the year a few times, and was all-NBA defense later in his career. So I wasn't taking a shot at her -- she's a nice player. But she's not in any realistic conversation about actually winning ROY. That's the only thing I was really trying to get at; her fans have lost their minds trying to make fetch happen.

And oddsmakers agree:

• Clark -5000
• Reese +1500

 

[pollardsvision]

And that Mabrey trade could swing this thing.

This is a the rare year in the W, where you could make the case for 5-6 teams having a chance to win it all. The Sun have been knocking at the door for years, and can't get over the hump. They just don't quite have the shooting. Early results show that Mabrey could be that difference. They look great with her, and of course, just knocked off the Liberty.

But the other non-Liberty/Aces contenders also made moves.
Lynx got Hines-Allen to add some toughness and rebounding, and that looks good too.

And the one my wallet is hoping for, Storm signed Olympic star Gabby WIlliams. Probably won't be enough, there's a reason the bet was 10-1. But it does potentially give them the best starting 5 in the league and helps with their depth.

 

[bigbottom]

And that Mabrey trade could swing this thing.

This is a the rare year in the W, where you could make the case for 5-6 teams having a chance to win it all. The Sun have been knocking at the door for years, and can't get over the hump. They just don't quite have the shooting. Early results show that Mabrey could be that difference. They look great with her, and of course, just knocked off the Liberty.

But the other non-Liberty/Aces contenders also made moves.
Lynx got Hines-Allen to add some toughness and rebounding, and that looks good too.

And the one my wallet is hoping for, Storm signed Olympic star Gabby WIlliams. Probably won't be enough, there's a reason the bet was 10-1. But it does potentially give them the best starting 5 in the league and helps with their depth.

It was fun watching Gabby Williams in the Olympics. Plus, she’s pretty cute.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

That court in Atlanta is.....distinctive.

 

[pollardsvision]

The Fever beating the Dream could really help the Sky down the stretch. Dream had been closing in on that 8 seed like a freight train.
Sky play the Dream in in the 2nd to last game of the season, and that very well could end up being a win or go home game.

And I have feeling the Fever are going to end up stealing that 6 seed from the Mercury. They look so good right now. They go to Chicago on Friday for "Barbie Night". Fever-Sky has given us 3 gems, but I have a feeling the Fever might blow them out on Friday.

Mystics knocked off the Storm on the road. I've been saying all season to buy stock in the Mystics. They look so good with Sykes and Austin back (and of course Austin hurt her ankle last night, she can't catch a break from injuries). The league has a severe lack to good PG's right now, and Julie Vanloo could help so many teams right now. Mystics have the Dream's pick this year, so if the Dream don't make the Playoffs, the Mystics will have 2 picks in the top 4.

 

[pollardsvision]

And the Sky cancelled practice today with multiple players feeling sick. Whole team taking Covid tests.

Friday could get real ugly (not to mention Wednesday against the Mystics).

 

[TheAristocrat]

Gotta be careful around those 3-9 "freight trains."

 

[boilerdave]

Oh, hi Kelsey Plum.

Google “Kelsey Plumb in a black vest”.

 

[pollardsvision]

Gotta be careful around those 3-9 "freight trains."

That was 0-8 leading into the break, before they got healthy. Came out of the break 3-0 beating some good teams before dropping a couple.

if ATL goes cold, Dallas and Washington are also only 3.5 games back of Chicago. Unlikely, but possible. Particularly for Dallas.

Dallas beat the Aces last night, and came back from 21 down on Sunday to beat the Sparks. They are healthy, and made it to the quarterfinals last year.

Washington maybe could in theory, but the front office would probably be unhappy about it.
Which makes tonight's game even more interesting. It's really not good for Washington to beat Chicago tonight. They need Chicago to keep ATL out of the Playoffs. But Chennedy is out, presumably with Covid. Washington has found a way to lose a lot of games this year, but losing to Chicago without Chennedy is really hard to do.

 

[pollardsvision]

And Dallas would really love to be the team to send Chicago to the lottery.

Dallas owns a pick swap with Chicago.

Going into the season that seemed like a good asset. Chicago has been a lot better than expected and Dallas has been a lot worse than expected.

 

[pollardsvision]

That Vegas-Dallas game was really good.

Of all the huge storylines in the league this year, "what the hell is wrong with the Aces?" has to be at the top of the list. A'ja dropped 42 and continues her march to the best individual season in WNBA history.

I have no idea, but I'd guess it's a combination of a lack of depth and Olympic fatigue. No team has ever won a WNBA title in an Olympic year with more than 2 Olympians. Aces had 6 Olympians. Although, that could likely change this season. With the international growth, most of the Playoff teams had more than 2 Olympians. Sun, Fever, and whichever of the Sky/Dream/Wings make would the be the only Playoff teams that didn't, I think. But a team having basically their entire rotation play in the Olympics is certainly unprecedented.

But for last night, what it was is that Dallas is really damn good when they're on. Not a lot of leagues where an 8-22 team is loaded with talent, but that's the way it goes in the W.

Satou is the biggest free-agent this off-season, and I really hope she stays in Dallas. This version of the Arike-Satou-Howard WIngs is a lot of fun. It would be fun to see them run it back. Particularly if they land a good PG in the draft.

 

[pollardsvision]

If they do get a PG, I surely hope it's in a way that leaves Jacy Sheldon on the team and in the rotation.

Jacy is awesome and full of defensive hustle. #5 pick this year out of OSU. And her little sister, Emmy, with Down's, has become the Wings' biggest fan and a local celebrity.

She's great. Just needs to work on her shot. But this league is cut-throat and there a lot of good guards coming out in 2025.

 

[pollardsvision]

Kelsey Mitchell has been on ungodly hellfire since the break.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Lexie Hull has a graceful 3-pt shot.

 

[Navin Johnson]

ATL spitting the bit here. Need someone who can handle the ball down the stretch

 

[pollardsvision]

The 1st round match-up for the Fever could get real interesting. I don't think anybody wants to see the Fever in the 1st round, but certainly not the Sun. They just don't seem to have the offensive fire power if it turns into a shootout.

As of now, the Lynx have overtaken the 2-seed, but it's gone back and forth all season. The most likely path to Fever-Sun in the 1st might be the 3-6 game. Fever could overtake the Mercury for the 6-seed any day now.

And of course, the Sparks knock off the Liberty last night. This league, man.

 

[pollardsvision]

Lexie Hull has a graceful 3-pt shot.

Lexie is awesome.

Even more fun she says "I was trying to get my hands on as my balls as I could" in the post-game presser. Clark of course not letting it slide.

 

[pollardsvision]

Chicago looked a little better than I expected without Chennedy. Cardoso is going to be a force one day. She's a great passer.

And fittingly, Chicago finishes it off with a freaking shot-clock violation with 8 seconds left (down 2 points).

 

[Ghost Rider]

Caitlan Clark broke the WNBA rookie record for 3-pointers in a season. She is so good already that you can pretty much count on 15-25 points and 5-10 assists from her in every game.

For a good laugh, watch this interview Dan Patrick did back in early June with Geno Auriemma, who said that Clark's style of play isn't built for the WNBA. Less than three months and his idiocy has already aged as well as week-old milk.

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[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

I guess. Flip side, she gets tagged with the TO each time her teammates can’t catch a pass that probably 25-30 people in here could handle. She’s probably got 40-50 TOs that never should have happened. Son and I watched a game where she had 3 in the first half in that category. Another couple the game we attended this summer.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

I guess. Flip side, she gets tagged with the TO each time her teammates can’t catch a pass that probably 25-30 people in here could handle. She’s probably got 40-50 TOs that never should have happened. Son and I watched a game where she had 3 in the first half in that category. Another couple the game we attended this summer.

I'm no WNBA expert but this is also what I've seen. A lot of good passes inside with the receiving player basically botching an easy layup.

 

[pollardsvision]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

With her style of play, there's just going to be a lot of turnovers.
It's always nice to limit them, but surely the risk/reward of the long passes is worth it. It just puts so much pressure on the other team.

From what we've seen so far, it's obvious she's going to have a great career, just a matter how many titles it will turn into. And that's the fascinating part. A lot of fantastic players in the history and present of women's basketball, but nobody I know of with her specific style and skillset.

It's always fun when we don't really have a true blueprint.

And she's putting it to the test in a league with a lot of great players and more on the way. So, however it goes, it's certainly going to be exciting to see unfold.

 

[SWC]

team usa and the haters can all make like a leave and take a walk off a pier caitlin clark is amazing and the sour grapes from the haters like taurasi and swoops just makes me sad she is like a huge awesome tide that came in and lifted all ships and all they can do is hate on her cause they aint her and never was never will be take that to the bank bromigos

 

[pollardsvision]

I was highly fascinated to see how the Sparks pulled off this win against the Liberty.
Not necessarily from a talent standpoint. There's enough talent on these rosters for anybody to beat anybody.

But the Sparks are blatantly tanking. They've been pulling Hamby or Rickea at crucial 4th quarter moments in close games. I don't blame them. They'd be dominant if they got Paige to with Brink and Rickea. From what I hear, the Fever did similar last year. Played great for 3 quarters, but kept finding ways to lose close games with highly questionable rotation decisions late. I didn't watch, so I don't know, Just seems to be the consensus, but if they did, certainly it was worth it.

But for this game, Rickea took it out of the coach's hands early. Tight game in the 1st, and then Rickea dropped 11 straight points (3 threes).

Rickea has been kicking *** lately and looks like she's going to be special. She's pretty big for a wing, athletic as hell, plays great defense, and is already scoring at all three levels.

 

[pollardsvision]

Although any team really tanking wouldn't sign Odyssey Sims. Odyssey is playing for her career on every possession.

So, who knows. Either way, great win for the Sparks.

And I'm sure Pat would have loved to see the young Vols go off on the Liberty.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

I guess. Flip side, she gets tagged with the TO each time her teammates can’t catch a pass that probably 25-30 people in here could handle. She’s probably got 40-50 TOs that never should have happened. Son and I watched a game where she had 3 in the first half in that category. Another couple the game we attended this summer.

I'm no WNBA expert but this is also what I've seen. A lot of good passes inside with the receiving player basically botching an easy layup.

Or a fast break where the teammate simply needs to be able to catch while running. A skill that most middle school players have mastered.

 

[pollardsvision]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

I guess. Flip side, she gets tagged with the TO each time her teammates can’t catch a pass that probably 25-30 people in here could handle. She’s probably got 40-50 TOs that never should have happened. Son and I watched a game where she had 3 in the first half in that category. Another couple the game we attended this summer.

I'm no WNBA expert but this is also what I've seen. A lot of good passes inside with the receiving player basically botching an easy layup.

Or a fast break where the teammate simply needs to be able to catch while running. A skill that most middle school players have mastered.

I'm a dumb redneck trying not to be an *******.
I'm going to explain what I hear you saying, and if you'd be so kind (and of course, you don't have to be ) please tell me where I'm hearing this wrong.

It sounds like you are saying Caitlin Clark is really good at basketball, and that you enjoy watching her.
It sounds like you are saying her teammates suck at an extraordinary level.
Like, you pile on in a way that implies that you think women suck at basketball.

Again, I don't know your intention. It just really sounds that way to my dumb redneck brain.

For reference. Kelsey is the leading scorer on the team, shooting an ungodly percentage from 3 (and elsewhere) recently. Boston is killing it. Lexie Hull is on fire. The players on this team are playing out of their mind, including Caitlin.

So, it sounds like you're saying her teammates really suck. And by extension, if you think the women on her team that are on fire suck, it would just make me thing you thing women suck at basketball.

Or, bare with me, that women's basketball sucks.

That could be all wrong, so if I've misinterpreted anything you've said, please tell me.

But my real question...on the off chance that maybe you don't like women's basketball.......why do you care so much about a women's basketball player?

Sorry @bigbottom I know I have been, but I swear I don't think I am being here. Why go hard in the paint about a player in a sport that you think sucks? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable question.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Dude, get a grip. Some just think she would have done better with better teammates.

 

[pollardsvision]

Dude, get a grip. Some just think she would have done better with better teammates.

I guess I really am just the ******* here.

2 all-stars last year. One shooting about 60% from 3 since the all star break. The other the former #1 pick doing exactly what you'd expect.

A few others, but of course Lexie, who just dropped 6-8 from 3 in a big 4th quarter.

You guys can just keep saying they suck. I'll just be the *******.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Well you definitely got that last part right.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Clark has 57 more TOs than the next WNBA player on the list (171 to 114). She's 8th in usage as a rookie, so somewhat understandable, but that's the argument against her at this point.

They have been pretty generous with the assists assists well. Die of them would make Stockton blush.

I guess. Flip side, she gets tagged with the TO each time her teammates can’t catch a pass that probably 25-30 people in here could handle. She’s probably got 40-50 TOs that never should have happened. Son and I watched a game where she had 3 in the first half in that category. Another couple the game we attended this summer.

I'm no WNBA expert but this is also what I've seen. A lot of good passes inside with the receiving player basically botching an easy layup.

Or a fast break where the teammate simply needs to be able to catch while running. A skill that most middle school players have mastered.

I'm a dumb redneck trying not to be an *******.
I'm going to explain what I hear you saying, and if you'd be so kind (and of course, you don't have to be ) please tell me where I'm hearing this wrong.

It sounds like you are saying Caitlin Clark is really good at basketball, and that you enjoy watching her.
It sounds like you are saying her teammates suck at an extraordinary level.
Like, you pile on in a way that implies that you think women suck at basketball.

Again, I don't know your intention. It just really sounds that way to my dumb redneck brain.

For reference. Kelsey is the leading scorer on the team, shooting an ungodly percentage from 3 (and elsewhere) recently. Boston is killing it. Lexie Hull is on fire. The players on this team are playing out of their mind, including Caitlin.

So, it sounds like you're saying her teammates really suck. And by extension, if you think the women on her team that are on fire suck, it would just make me thing you thing women suck at basketball.

Or, bare with me, that women's basketball sucks.

That could be all wrong, so if I've misinterpreted anything you've said, please tell me.

But my real question...on the off chance that maybe you don't like women's basketball.......why do you care so much about a women's basketball player?

Sorry @bigbottom I know I have been, but I swear I don't think I am being here. Why go hard in the paint about a player in a sport that you think sucks? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable question.

All good. Appreciate that you asked me to clarify my view instead of assuming silently. Truly appreciate that.

Quick thoughts (as I head off to a school open house):
- I’ve had a blast watching WNBA games this year. Probably watched 40-50 games with my son.
- Some amazing players in the league. Lots of quality b-ball.
- I actually wasn’t a C Clark fan, because my true basketball love is Paige Bueckers. But CC has grown on me. It’s ok to love watching both!
- Clark has some really good teammates. They are learning how to play together on the fly, since she barely had a training camp. They’ve come a long way since the first 8-10 games of the season and have really made strides playing as a unit.
- Early games, where her teammates weren’t used to her passes, contained painful moments. Particularly when paired with some of the irrational hatred directed toward one of the most exciting women’s players ever. So hearing about all of her turnovers…..while watching easy, long passes bounce of teammates’ hands……was just a WTF moment for me (and my son, who knows b-ball).
- As mentioned earlier, my son and I love these games enough that we drove 3.5 hours to Indy to watch the Fever vs Phoenix. It was awesome!! We will probably go back again!

Not sure if that answers all your questions. It’s my best quick attempt. I will reiterate that the irrational hatred of CC is just beyond the imagination to me. I get why other players (veterans) want to go at her in games, make her run the gauntlet. Rookie hazing. But fans saying she’s overrated? Geno talking **** about her? Absurd.

 

[bigbottom]

Dude, get a grip. Some just think she would have done better with better teammates.

I guess I really am just the ******* here.

2 all-stars last year. One shooting about 60% from 3 since the all star break. The other the former #1 pick doing exactly what you'd expect.

A few others, but of course Lexie, who just dropped 6-8 from 3 in a big 4th quarter.

You guys can just keep saying they suck. I'll just be the *******.

I’ve watched a number of fever games this year, and I’ve seen Clark make a whole bunch of turnovers all on her own. She plays with abandon and without fear, and that sometimes leads to very poor decision-making in terms of driving into coverage or making bad passes. I have no doubt she’ll tighten up that part of her game over time. She’s an amazing talent, but she’s nowhere near perfect.

 

[bigbottom]

Well you definitely got that last part right.

Come on man.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Dude, get a grip. Some just think she would have done better with better teammates.

I guess I really am just the ******* here.

2 all-stars last year. One shooting about 60% from 3 since the all star break. The other the former #1 pick doing exactly what you'd expect.

A few others, but of course Lexie, who just dropped 6-8 from 3 in a big 4th quarter.

You guys can just keep saying they suck. I'll just be the *******.

I’ve watched a number of fever games this year, and I’ve seen Clark make a whole bunch of turnovers all on her own. She plays with abandon and without fear, and that sometimes leads to very poor decision-making in terms of driving into coverage or making bad passes. I have no doubt she’ll tighten up that part of her game over time. She’s an amazing talent, but she’s nowhere near perfect.

Really good points. I should have mentioned the above — CC has made PLENTY of TOs on her own. Sometimes she pushes the limits, other times she just makes lazy plays (a lot like Steph Curry) where she goads her opponents to double team her, then she doesn’t make the right pass and gets stuck. I find that annoying, just like when Curry does it.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Well you definitely got that last part right.

Come on man.

I'm not the one who went apeshit over a different opinion. Man.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Well you definitely got that last part right.

Come on man.

I'm not the one who went apeshit over a different opinion. Man.

Agreed. That nonsense that got spewed at you was a bit unhinged.

 

[identikit]

What a :trainwreck: this thread is, more often than not.

If there weren't differing opinions, I wouldn't look in.

But that's an anathema seemingly.

Lighten up, you know who you are.