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***official 2024/25 womens bball thread*** playoff bball wins return to seattle brohans (1 Viewer)

aja wilson stopped being aggressive in the second half possibly as a result of a good defensive scheme by seattle and i think that was the difference take that to the bank bromigos
 
SWC said:
aja wilson stopped being aggressive in the second half possibly as a result of a good defensive scheme by seattle and i think that was the difference take that to the bank bromigos
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Storm have the personnel to be the best defensive team in the league. Gabby, Ezi, and Sykes are elite defenders with great length. Nneka is Nneka. Dom isn't a great defender (yet), but her length alone causes problems. Nobody can stop A'ja, but they are better suited to slow her down than almost any team. Ezi did as good of a job as you can ask of anybody last night.

This is the entire Storm experience.
Sunday, they looked completely broken. Last night, they ended a 17-game winning streak.
It's possible last night was enough to save Noelle's job. We'll see. As bad as they've underperformed at times, you have to look at coaching.
But Nneka, Skylar, and Gabby absolutely love her. Jewel wanted her fired last year, which led to a lot of discord on the team, AFAIK.

Most importantly for the Storm (assuming they get curb-stomped in game 3), is Dom has put the league on notice.

So many great young stars in the league and coming in, I don't know who the best player will be 5-7 years from now. But Dom has a real good shot.

Getting her *** whipped by A'ja in Game 1, IMO, was a great experience for her.
A great start to a Playoff career if you're going to be great. At 19, she's already really good, but the more time she can spend around true greatness, the better.

But to bounce back from Sunday (where she became the first teenager with a Playoff double-double, but she still got worked), to this performance in Game 2 is scary.

Her physical abilities are crazy (I can't help but always think of Randy Moss in those terms), and her touch within 8 feet is exceptional for a super young big. But she's also got the grit and coachability to keep getting so much better.
 
And the stupid Sparks. They won some titles because they lucked into Leslie, Candace, and Nneka.

But they have always been a terribly run franchise. Still way behind the times in terms of investment.

I love Plum, but the Sparks were staring in the face of Dom, Brink, and Rickea on rookie deals and said "nah". We'll scrap all that for one year of a 5'6" inefficient shooter.

That will go down as one of the biggest management blunders in all of sports.
 
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BassNBrew said:

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Is this is what you are getting excited over @pollardsvision
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I was assuming this link was about the 3 series' that are going to game 3. Or even better, the insane Lynx comeback last night that prevented it from being all 4.

But this is the strange era we live in.
I hope we ever find the equivalent to this in another sport, and I'll go posting hot takes in threads about sports I don't watch. See how strange people find that.

I don't believe I've mentioned Angel in a month or so. Like most people that watch the W, been a while since we've thought too much about Angel and the Sky. Personally, even in the dust up over Angel's comments about the GM/franchise a couple weeks ago, I didn't care much. She's absolutely right, but it was wrong to do that publicly. Chicago is a terrible franchise so it really doesn't matter. If she got the GM fired, that's a great thing, but the GM won't be fired because they are a terrible franchise.

I think I did finally chime in on that other thread that's purely for Angel/Caitlin hot takes by people that don't watch women's basketball.

Happy to discuss Angel as a player in places where people watch the game. She's fascinating. So flawed in a lot of ways, and so good at other things. Where she goes from here, I don't know. She's a unique player about to be on her 3rd coach in 3 years with a terrible organization.

No offense, but if you are posting this 2-3 months after Angel played her last meaningful game, and in the middle of the W Playoffs, I don't think you are looking for an actual conversation.

I know it's going to sound weird, but there are people that just like women's basketball and the W without all this other stuff. People that just talk about and analyze players and teams. The good and the bad. Just like we do with other sports.

It doesn't sound like it, but this is more just a general apology to everybody here.

Not a lot of people, relatively, care about women's basketball, which is fine. There's a lot of sports and leagues I don't care about.

The piping in about sports/leagues you don't care about thing seems strange to me, but that's fine. I said a lot of ******* things last year trying to process the situation we were in.

Women's basketball isn't very popular, and on a football website with mostly middle aged dudes (which I am), it's certainly not going to be popular. Expecting more than social media hot takes was really foolish of me. Again, I know that sounds ****ty, but I really don't mean it to be so. Expecting real talk about womens' basketball on Footballguys.com was just stupid.

That's my terrible apology.

I love this league. There are great places to discuss it, which I do.

Knowing all that, I still post here about it. I know it's stupid, but I do it for a couple of reasons.

1. I like the FBG community
2.. Not too many for sure, but for any other middle aged football-loving dudes that like women's basketball or are about to catch the bug, a reminder that they are not alone.
3. Joe is still willing to pay for the server space to talk women's basketball. As long as he is, I'll do that.
 
More importantly, I'm going to miss the Valkyries until next May.

They have become a fantastic free-agent destination. Best facilities, broke the attendance record in year 1 with players many had never heard of.

I hope they don't break this awesome thing up with too many free-agent signings.

Unless, they can get A'ja or Phee , I hope they just roll it back out.
 
What a night.

Before the season, most felt like the Lynx, Liberty, Aces, and Fever were the clear Top 4 teams.

But at different points of the season, it didn't look like the Aces, Fever, or Liberty would make it.

If the Liberty can somehow win tonight, they all will after a wild ride to get there.

Not that I'm counting on the Liberty on the road with a hobbled Stewie.
 
Such an impressive 1st half from Indy. I still can't see them actually winning this series, but I'm done doubting the Fever at this point.

I think Kelsey essentially locked up 1st team All-W in the Atlanta series. I don't think Kelsey is one of the 5 best players in the league, but she's made a pretty undeniable case at this point.

As we've always known, Indiana is going to be crazy good for the next few years.

Doing this without Caitlin is wild, but it's similar to the Lynx without Phee.
When you have talent, and more importantly a great coach and culture, you can still be a really good team without your best player.
Not going to win a title, but still very good.

I expect the Aces to come out strong in the 2nd half, but if they don't........oh man, you don't want to lose home court advantage and have to win games in Indy.
 
Kelsey is ridiculous.

I think she's what Chennedy Carter could have been with a 3 point shot and a better attitude.

I wish Chennedy's head was on straight, but that's a huge compliment.
 
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Heading into this game, even being in the final 4 and winning a game, the Fever were still +4000 to win it all.

+4000!! I wish I were a betting man.
 
Gotta hand it to the Fever, they are a really scrappy team. They’ve lost a ton of players to injury this season and are about to take the Aces and MVP Wilson to a Game 5 in the semis.
 
GroveDiesel said:
Gotta hand it to the Fever, they are a really scrappy team. They’ve lost a ton of players to injury this season and are about to take the Aces and MVP Wilson to a Game 5 in the semis.
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Indeed.

Kelsey and Aaliyah did their thing. A big Playoff breakout from AB in this one.

But, IMO, the game was decided by Shey in the 1st half, then Odyssey in the 2nd half. You just look at the journey those 2 young* women have taken to get here and you can't help but root for them.

*Old by sports standards. They've been toiling away a long time, and now have a shot to play a big role on a potential WNBA Finals team.

Shey already has, but she spent 6 years just trying to get to the W. She did, and was a big part of Playoff teams, then tore her Achllies.

Odyssey has been in and out of the league 12 years after winning an NCAA title with Griner. She was the Fever's 5th choice at PG this year.
 
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Jess and Masha looking really good too.

Every team in this still hasn't reasonably good shot to win it, even a Phee-less Lynx or Clark-less Fever.
 
AT kicking *** now.

I'm disgusted about what happened to Phee. One of the greatest players in the league and one of the greatest human beings on Earth. Her run of bad beats is horrible. I would have loved to see her get over the hump this year.

But barring that, seeing AT get over the hump would be pretty awesome too.

I hate that Phee got hurt, and I hate that AT was a part of it. It was a clean play and of course not a foul.

Love them both so much.
 
rockaction said:
Check this presser out.

Whoa.

Click to expand...
I love Phee.
I hate Cathy. Well not really. Cathy is just a patsy for Adam and the NBA. I hate the NBA's ownership and management of this league.

My hope is that one day women's professional basketball in the US is not owned by the NBA.

Anytime anybody can call out the NBA's disasterous management of the W, I'm here for it.

That said, I hate the timing of this for Phee.

I'd much rather her be giving this statement while accepting the Finals MVP trophy.
Not right after getting her butt whipped by AT.

But I get she wanted to do with eyeballs during the CBA negotiations. If it helps the players' cause, I'm here for it.

But I don't like the timing of it. Or bringing up Unrivaled (I love Unrivaled. The officiating there sucks too).
 
pollardsvision said:
My hope is that one day women's professional basketball in the US is not owned by the NBA.
Click to expand...

I don't follow it enough, but the NBA dragged the public into women's basketball kicking and screaming. People can say it turns a profit now, but I'm having a hard time the definitive statements about how anything else is ludicrous.

I don't know. I thought this would be fun to post here. She really went after her, although I'm listening to Kornheiser right now and I agree with him about repeating personal conversations. That's pretty ugly and her case would have been much better and more well-received without betraying confidences.

But anyway, hope you enjoyed.
 
rockaction said:
pollardsvision said:
My hope is that one day women's professional basketball in the US is not owned by the NBA.
Click to expand...

I don't follow it enough, but the NBA dragged the public into women's basketball kicking and screaming. People can say it turns a profit now, but I'm having a hard time the definitive statements about how anything else is ludicrous.

I don't know. I thought this would be fun to post here. She really went after her, although I'm listening to Kornheiser right now and I agree with him about repeating personal conversations. That's pretty ugly and her case would have been much better and more well-received without betraying confidences.

But anyway, hope you enjoyed.
Click to expand...
Interest in women's basketball was increasing in the mid 90's. Think Lobo's UConn era.

NBA wanted to capitalize. Sort of. The more likely case can be made that just wanted to own the rights to it in case it really became popular.

ABL was trying to capitalize too. In 1997, the ABL had all the best talent, and was paying players 3-4X what they made in the W. W won out because it's owned by the NBA, for a number of reasons.

From '97-'02, the W was pretty successful for a start up league. Attendance and ratings numbers were almost on par with what they are now (not peak CC numbers, but otherwise since 2022 or so). Games were broadcast on network TV, and got solid ratings.

What happened?
Did women's basketball all of a sudden become less interesting? No.

What happened was the NBA signed a new TV rights deal with ESPN, and the head of programming at ESPN was Mark Shapiro (he's a **** bird that's bankrupted a few companies since).

Shapiro hated the W and buried it . They owned the rights and refused to promote it or put it on the main channel (much less ABC). If all of you forgot the WNBA existed for 20 years, it's because it basically didn't. It was there, but ESPN owned the rights and didn't want to promote it or air it.

We're all old enough to remember a world before social media.
Back then, if it's not on a network and ESPN doesn't care, its almost impossible to watch. For most people, they'd have no way to know the WNBA even exists.

Anyway, no the NBA did not drag the public kicking and screaming into women's basketball.
They capitalized for a few years then let it get buried.

They are trying to capitalize now (Caitlin forced their hand), but the NBA was never forcing this on anybody.

But there was a 20 year stretch where the NBA and ESPN really didn't give a ****.
 
And I know this is going to really sound outlandish. I don't expect anybody here to agree.

I believe the NBA was just trying to control a competitor, which I know sounds crazy.

Don't think women's basketball could ever be a competitor to the NBA?

When LeBron and Steph retire, how many NBA players is the average American going to know?
If not for Cooper Flagg, how many men's college players in the last four or five years has the average American heard about?

It sure feels like they might know a lot more women's basketball players when that happens.

Starts with Caitln, Paige, and Juju.

But the star power and the drama reach deeper..

Any NBA player that will do what Phee did today?

Any 4-time MVPs like A'ja?

NBA's best player just wants to get the hell out of the US and get back to farming. Most of America has never heard of it's second best player.

I'm not stupid enough to think did the W could ever surpass the NBA in popularity.

But the NBA is smart not to ignore the possibility and keep control over a potential competitor.
 
The idea of the WNBA being a real competitor to the NBA is a bit of madness. They don't even play at the same time (for the most part), and it's not like sports fans can't enjoy more than one sport/league at the same time.

Now, with regards to Collier's words yesterday, I think this is a case where several things can be true. I feel like many WNBA players overrate their product. I have tried watching it, but it's not a good product. There are some ladies with great skills, yes, but there are many that are lacking in them, and considering how few teams there are, the number of super talented women basketball players in the league is not high. On the flip side, Cathy Engelbert, by all accounts, appears to be a horrible leader, so her being called out is a good thing; if this leads to a change at the top, then that is a positive thing for the league. Officiating, from what I have seen, is pretty bad. Regardless of what I think of their skills, new leadership would be wise to find a way to tone down the physical play and emphasize what skill level is there. Casual fans aren't gonna tune in to watch unskilled players maul each other on the court; people want to see talented athletes showing their skills.
 
This damn Fever team. Wow.

Fight to basically a draw in the 1st half. Come out in the 3rd, AB gets a cheap 5th foul call early (the 4th was really cheap too), then Kelsey goes down. Aces go up double digits.

Should be over, right? No way the Fever can overcome this too.

Wrong.
Such a heroic effort after that to send it to overtime. Odyssey is something else. Natasha Howard always so criminally underrated (both part the growing list of amazing players that were Dallas Wings, but got out or were let go).

But of course, AB got called for the 6th ******** call right before overtime.

Fever have overcome everything, but overtime with no AB, after all the other losses, and Chelsea going off, is just too much.
 
Navin Johnson said:
An ex-player of mine's niece just signed her LOI with Iowa. McKenna Woliczko (McDub) ranked 6th in the class of 2026. She was number one for a while but tore her ACL last season.
Click to expand...
Heck yeah!

Iowa had as good a year as you could expect last year after losing Caitlin and Bluder. They were fun to watch and I think Jensen will keep them humming.
 
Caitlin came out in support of Phee's statements today.
I used to think a lock out was likely, but as united as the players are, I don't think it'll happen.

When you have one side really united, and the other side really split, a deal is going to happen.

Not really talking about Phee/CC agreeing (we knew that), but let's just look at it from the players' perspective.

Often, it's hard to get the top paid players and lowest paid players on the same page. WNBA players don't have that problem.

WNBA pays players between $70-250K.

Unrivaled can pay 56 of them at least $150K (for 2 months of work).
For the other 100 players, at least 20-30 of them will player overseas (seriously, all these years, Turkey has been paying players more than the W)
Don't forget Athletes Unlimited. Most have never heard of Athletes Unlimited (or the players that play in it). They pay $30K for 5 weeks of work.

After that, there's college. These are the best 156 players in the world. They were all a big deal in college.
Be an assistant coach, do some stupid sponsorship. We all know, $70K is peanuts for NIL money (seriously, think about what it means the colleges can pay a WNBA salary with change from their couch cushion, you really think the NBA is doing a good job at this?)

There's a lot of ways to replace WNBA money, especially if you don't have to live in an expensive NBA city.

The players are united with nothing to lose.

The owners?
Going to be so split.

6 NBA owners just ponied up a lot of cash to buy a WNBA team (they've seen the books and still want to invest big money, so bless your heart if you believe the "money loser/subsidizing" narrative. the people that have seen the books keep wanting to invest more money into this).

About another 8 already own WNBA teams (a handful more are still trying to buy).

Half the NBA owners absolutely do not want a lockout. A quarter of them just bet big money that there wouldn't be a lockout.
The other half may or may not care.

NBA owners are split and have a lot to lose. Players really have nothing to lose.

The only leverage the NBA has at all, is their ability to squash any competitor league like they did the ABL. (again, if this league is a money loser, why such a need to squash a competitor?).

NBA doesn't think it can have a women's professional sports league that profitable and pays the players? Fine. Let somebody else try.

But they won't.

Because no matter what James Dolan keeps feeding to ESPN, the NBA thinks there's money to made in this women's basketball stuff.
 
When Kah saved the US in the title game in 2024, A'ja referred to her as "that *****".

"That *****" seems to locked in early on in these Finals.
 
After Paige Sonia and Kiki, the 2025 draft class Is incredibly deep and there were about 9 more players with a good argument to be on the All Rookie team.

Makani's case might have been the strongest.

She's been the perfect cheap 3 and D PG around PHX' big 3.
 
Thank heavens Sami is back on the bench.

Now let's hope JYo is too.

This one is setting up to be a classic. As always we want everybody healthy.
 
So glad to see Dana find her way.

The terrible Chicago franchise was happy to run her out of town. In fairness she was bad..

But playing with a good organization and a 4-time MVP tends to help work the kinks out.

Good for her
 
Dude, are you sure this is entirely healthy?

Nah, bro. Enjoy the series. There was an article in The Ringer I came across today.

Found it for you. I read a bunch of it. It was interesting. I didn’t know she was in a competing league and owned a significant stake in it. Pardon me for not siding with truth to power (and I’m generally sympathetic) but that is a massive ****ing conflict of interest to own part of a league and hold an active union rep position in a rival league. How the author of this article hasn’t pointed that out in two seconds makes my jaw drop and chafes my sense of ethical duties.

What. The. ****. Nobody has raised this issue yet?

These people can find the nearest Space X ******** and send themselves to da moon.

www.theringer.com

The WNBA Is at a Breaking Point

Napheesa Collier went scorched earth on Cathy Engelbert for a reason. The players are fed up—and the firestorm is here.
www.theringer.com
 
rockaction said:
Dude, are you sure this is entirely healthy?

Nah, bro. Enjoy the series. There was an article in The Ringer I came across today.

Found it for you. I read a bunch of it. It was interesting. I didn’t know she was in a competing league and owned a significant stake in it. Pardon me for not siding with truth to power (and I’m generally sympathetic) but that is a massive ****ing conflict of interest to own part of a league and hold an active union rep position in a rival league. How the author of this article hasn’t pointed that out in two seconds makes my jaw drop and chafes my sense of ethical duties.

What. The. ****. Nobody has raised this issue yet?

These people can find the nearest Space X ******** and send themselves to da moon.

www.theringer.com

The WNBA Is at a Breaking Point

Napheesa Collier went scorched earth on Cathy Engelbert for a reason. The players are fed up—and the firestorm is here.
www.theringer.com
Click to expand...
It was discussed a while back on a lot of podcasts, including Seerat's, which is one reason she may not have felt the need to bring it up in that article.

I get it.

Here's why I'm not concerned:

1. Nneka is the actual president of the WNBPA , not Phee (or Stewie, also an owner of Unrivaled and part of the WNBPA Executive Committee). Nneka has no affiliation with Unrivaled.
Nneka is incredibly well respected. If she thought it were an issue, she'd say/do something.

2. There are 7 members of the WNBPA Executive Committee. 5 of the 7 have no part of Unrivaled. Nneka, Plum, AC, E-Will, and Brianna Turner are all good enough to be in Unrivaled.

3. Not a single WNBA player has come out with concerns over this possible conflict of interest. Phee and Stewie are obviously beloved, and the tone seems to be that the players want them in this position.

4. I understand players not saying they are concerned doesn't mean they are not concerned. Player #150 in the league isn't going to go out to the media against Phee or Stewie.
But this is an incredibly close knit community. I believe, Just my opinion, that if somebody had a problem with it, they could get word to Nneka, Phee, or Stewie without repercussions.

Again, my opinion, but if there was any whisper of this being uncomfortable for some players, even just a few, I fully believe Phee and Stewie would step down.

5. This is very unusual and we haven't seen a similar situation, but this is what a lot of people would hope for from their union representation. Phee and Stewie created a league that pay 1/3rd of all WNBA players 2X what the WNBA pays. They are doing a great thing for their league mates during a labor negotiation.

Again, I don't want to speak for every player in the league.
But I do really believe if somebody had a problem with it, they could say something and something would change.
 
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Seerat at the Ringer laying out everything about the current CBA negotiations, and more, really well.

Been reported other places too, but the last NBA offer was $850K max salaries with $300K minimums.
The sticking point isn't that number (though it does seem quite low), but the players want revenue sharing, like pretty much every other pro sports league has.

You've heard the reports that the players make about 9% of league revenue. It's not set at 9%, that's just what it worked out to this year. Currently, the players make a specific, capped amount, no matter what the league's revenue is.

News to me, though not surprising, is that the Saudi's are trying to get involved with Project B.

I hope that's just a bargaining chip, and that not many W players would actually do it. But when there's this much cash involved, you never know.
I'd think/hope the Griner situation would keep most from doing it.

Gonna be wild to see how this plays out.
 
pollardsvision said:
Seerat at the Ringer laying out everything about the current CBA negotiations, and more, really well.

Been reported other places too, but the last NBA offer was $850K max salaries with $300K minimums.
The sticking point isn't that number (though it does seem quite low), but the players want revenue sharing, like pretty much every other pro sports league has.

You've heard the reports that the players make about 9% of league revenue. It's not set at 9%, that's just what it worked out to this year. Currently, the players make a specific, capped amount, no matter what the league's revenue is.

News to me, though not surprising, is that the Saudi's are trying to get involved with Project B.

I hope that's just a bargaining chip, and that not many W players would actually do it. But when there's this much cash involved, you never know.
I'd think/hope the Griner situation would keep most from doing it.

Gonna be wild to see how this plays out.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they should be getting a minimum of 40% of the BRI.
 
Coaching vacancies filling up.

Brondello to Toronto.

Reports of the Wings hiring Jose Fernandez from South Florida.
Did wonders at South Florida for a long time (fantastic upset of Duke last year), and a hire in the Smesko mold. He's also good friends with Geno, so you'd think it's Paige approved.
Fernandez was apparently on the short list last year. His buyout was $1 million last year, but just $500K now.

Portland hires Alex Sarama. Cavs assistant and author of "Transforming Basketball".

Seattle just hired Liberty and former Grizzlies assistant, Sonia Raman.

Whether these hires work out or not, just like last year, you have to like the way teams are thinking. They seem to be expanding their reach more and more.

Natalie and Smesko knocked it out of the park last year. Meziane, Sydney Johnson, and Lynne Roberts all had their moments. Personally a huge fan of Meziane.

A good infusion of coaching talent last year. Hopefully this year can be too.
 
Happy NCAAW Tip-Off Day!

Only big match-up today is Duke-Baylor in Paris at noon.
Duke is on the cusp of taking the leap, and can't wait to see what they look like.

Tomorrow has a pair of big ones.
Louisville-UConn
Tennessee-NC State

UConn will likely roll, but Louisville is always competitive.

Tennessee-NCSU is absolutely fascinating.
What's Kim Caldwell going to do in Year 2 with all a great recruiting class and Janiah Barker coming over? (Though they did just lose Ruby Whitehorn).
State lost a ton of talent in Rivers and James, but they've still got some good guards, Trygger was looking great at the end of the year, and Pierre is a stud.
 
It was only NC Central, but my Heels look so good.

Transfers fit perfectly. The top 5 freshman class looks great.

Last year, we lacked 2 big things.
A secondary ball handler and creator besides Kelly, and a pure dawg bucket getter.

Aarnisalo from UCLA looks like she can definitely be that secondary ball handler. She looked fantastic today.

And the pure bucket getter? That'll easily be freshman Nyla Brooks.
The other freshmen look good too, but Brooks looks like she's got some real stud potential. Big, long, athletic. Can score from anywhere and isn't bashful about doing so.

Nyla Harris from Louisville seems like she'll be the perfect veteran big to go along with the pair of 6'5" sophomores.

This team is really good and really deep. I think you can go ahead and pencil them in to win the ACC.
 
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