BeTheMatch
Footballguy
What organization is worse than the Red Sox at this point? Maybe Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. That's about it.
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***Official - 2025 Major League Baseball Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Great job White Sox
theathletic.com
Clevinger investigated by MLB on domestic violence allegations
The mother of Clevinger's child says she has been in contact with individuals from MLB’s Department of Investigations since the summer.
theathletic.com
ChiefD
Footballguy
Agree 100%. Not once watching Rolen did I think “that guy is a hall of famer for sure”
-fish-
Footballguy
at what?Rolen was better than McGriff
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
But McGriff had the better nicknameRolen was better than McGriff
ChiefD
Footballguy
NopeRolen was better than McGriff
No chanceRolen was better than McGriff
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
For being decent and not being suspected of steroid use.
Eephus
Footballguy
Rolen's detractors are underestimating the value of defense at a premium position. He was the best defensive 3B of his time and his offensive production was better than Brooks Robinson's.
I'm a big hall guy and have no problem with McGriff getting in but the induction of Rolen is recognition that there's a lot more to winning ballgames than accumulating Triple Crown stats.
I'm a big hall guy and have no problem with McGriff getting in but the induction of Rolen is recognition that there's a lot more to winning ballgames than accumulating Triple Crown stats.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
New 2023 Rules:
infielder shift outlawed (hate it)
extra innings start a man on second base (love it)
15 second pitch clock when bases are empty (love it)
pickoff attempts limited (not sure/indifferent)
larger bases (like)
www.espn.com
infielder shift outlawed (hate it)
extra innings start a man on second base (love it)
15 second pitch clock when bases are empty (love it)
pickoff attempts limited (not sure/indifferent)
larger bases (like)
Goodbye, shift! Hello, pitch clock!? Why MLB is betting big on new rules for 2023 season
When spring training games start, baseball will look different than ever before. Here's why the league is so confident the changes are for the better.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Love all of them. Hope they make a difference
Bogart
Footballguy
I'm going to need the first batter of the inning to yell across the field, "Ghost Runner on second!!!! Nobody out!!!"
fantasy stud
Footballguy
Yes, offensively he doesn't have any career milestone that screams hall of fame. Defensively, i get he was elite.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The only one I dislike is outlawing the shift. It's always freaky, especially at the stadium, to see a batter up there with the entire opposite field empty but he's still pulling for the fence. It also pisses off my youth coaching friends so its fun - no, he's not going to bunt.
The free baserunner is something that traditionalists hate because it really is a dramatic departure from the game, but I love it. Instant excitement when you have the go-ahead or winning run on second base to start the 10th. One of those silver linings to come from the COVIC days.
There might be some growing pains with the shift rule which reads, "At the time a pitch is thrown, all four infielders are required to be on the infield dirt (or infield grass) with two on each side of second base. Players will be able to move as soon as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand." This has to have managers thinking how they want to set up their infield in different situations. The 15/20 second pitch clock will probably be similar to the 10 second rule for free throws in the NBA - enforced very loosely, and only when a pitcher goes well over the limit, but a source of fun for managers and fans to talk #### to refs.
The pickoff rule could also create interesting situations as any time a pitcher steps off the rubber it counts as a "disengagement" and they're only allowed 2 of those now - whether a pickoff attempt or a fake pickoff, but also stepping off for any other reason. Once a pitcher has used his two disengagements, the runners will presumably be free to take huge leads. With the larger bases, it could mean more stolen bases this season.
The free baserunner is something that traditionalists hate because it really is a dramatic departure from the game, but I love it. Instant excitement when you have the go-ahead or winning run on second base to start the 10th. One of those silver linings to come from the COVIC days.
There might be some growing pains with the shift rule which reads, "At the time a pitch is thrown, all four infielders are required to be on the infield dirt (or infield grass) with two on each side of second base. Players will be able to move as soon as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand." This has to have managers thinking how they want to set up their infield in different situations. The 15/20 second pitch clock will probably be similar to the 10 second rule for free throws in the NBA - enforced very loosely, and only when a pitcher goes well over the limit, but a source of fun for managers and fans to talk #### to refs.
The pickoff rule could also create interesting situations as any time a pitcher steps off the rubber it counts as a "disengagement" and they're only allowed 2 of those now - whether a pickoff attempt or a fake pickoff, but also stepping off for any other reason. Once a pitcher has used his two disengagements, the runners will presumably be free to take huge leads. With the larger bases, it could mean more stolen bases this season.
I hate this rule. It takes away any strategy for holding runners on base. That is a nice part of the game that good pitchers take advantage of. This is going to be swing it way too far and bases are going to be stolen easily all over the place. This could end up causing bigger delays because the only real thing a pitcher can do now to hold a runner close is to vary their looks which will cause them to hold the ball a lot longer. One of the best ways to slow a run game is to delay the pitch to the plate. I have taught my pitchers to sometimes just go to the set position and stay there until the batter calls time. It really messes with base stealers as they become really ancy. With this rule change I can see pitchers employing this more often as they can't just step off. So wait until the batter calls time. Then it shouldn't count against you.
Also, what is the penalty? a ball or a balk? warning first?
ETA: OK - I forgot about the pitch clock so holding forever might not be something that can happen. Makes it even worse.
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But there's a pitch clock
I hate the shift as well. Part of the beauty of baseball is making adjustments to take way what the other guy does best and force adjustments. Why do they want to reward guys that cannot (or will not) adjust. There really is no rhyme or reason to the positional normal alignment other than they were trying to cover the entire playing surface evenly. As the game evolved and defenses started noticing that certain batters always hit the ball to certian places they moved to cover those areas. Why take this part of the game away? It is really minimizing some of the greatest aspects of the sport. If they do this they should also not allow the 3B to play in on a bunt situation or allow the entire infield to play in when a runner is on 3B. Those are for the same reasons as the "shift" - it is the percentage place to play defensively given the situation. Have I said how much I hate this? Ugh.
Forgot about that. Ugh...another thing I don't really care for. Although I still haven't really seen the exact rules for it. When I went to a college game last year it appeared to start when the pitcher got the ball and stop when he started his wind up or became set in the stretch. If that is the case (stop when the pitcher becomes set in the stretch) then he can stay that way as long as he wants. I just don't know if that is how it works. If it isn't that then it's even worse for keeping runners close. They know when the pitch has to be delivered. Easy jumps to be had.
I dont know exactly how it works either but you essentially cant have a pitch clock without a pickoff limit. Pitchers were using the loophole and just stepping off or throwing over to reset the pitch clock. I dont like it either but willing to give it a chance.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, I hate this disengagement rule. That's the only one I think is just stupid. No reason they couldn't add this later.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
"After a third step-off, the pitcher will be charged with a balk, unless at least one offensive player advances a base or an out is made on the ensuing play after the step off."
For the pitch clock: "If a pitcher has not started "the motion to deliver a pitch" before the expiration of the clock, he will be charged with a ball. If a batter delays entering the box, he will be charged with a strike."
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think we need to see how it plays out. I disagree with @Gally that it "takes away any strategy for holding runners on base" - I think it adds strategy as much as taking it away as a pitcher can look over but has to be more judicious with his actual pick off throws. I can see runners trying to goad a throw and batters messing with disengagement as well. I think it could add some fun to this part of the game.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Mike Hargrove (the human rain delay) is still an advisor for Cleveland. If anyone can figure out ways to get around some of this, it's him.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Baseball has famously been extremely resistant to change.
I wonder how scary some of the future business fundamentals look to the owners that they are finally trying to address some of the massive problems in the sport?
Hopefully it is not too late as the demographics of the sport seem to get worse every year.
I wonder how scary some of the future business fundamentals look to the owners that they are finally trying to address some of the massive problems in the sport?
Hopefully it is not too late as the demographics of the sport seem to get worse every year.
In what way? I have never thought that the pitcher holding a runner on with varying looks was an issue with the game. There are many other things that I would rather get rid of to shorten the game over making the pitcher hurry up and pitch.
Those that like pitch clock/disengagement rule, are you the same guys that boo when a pitcher tries a pick off more than once?
I guess I am in the minority in that I don't see the things trying to be changed as massive problems in the sport. This is not a fast-paced sport that is constantly moving for the attention deficit need it now world we are in today. That doesn't mean the game has massive problems.
I agree the games are too long but I believe that is due to commercial breaks, walk up music, and items like that rather than a pitcher taking 15 seconds to pitch after he has tried a pickoff a couple times. I also don't see what massive problem is solved by having three infielders on the same side of second base. That is making problems in the game as it takes away a strategic option that is a big part of the game.
I wonder if to increase offense they will eliminate off speed pitches. Will that increase offense enough to make the game exciting to those that currently don't think it is exciting enough?
To those that aren't a fan of the game, what are the "massive problems" in the sport that turn you off?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I have no idea if any of the changes will make any difference but for me, speed of play is what turns me off the most. It has nothing to do with wanting more offense or lack of attention.
I just want to see more action in the 3 hours one has to invest in a game. I have some of the same problems with football too, but I fix most of those by recording and skipping through the endless commercials. I don't have enough interest in baseball to record a game so when ever I check in on a live game and so little happens over a 10-15 minute time frame, I check out and look for something else.
While I am an old person, it is very clear younger people (as a generalization) also don't seem to enjoy the speed of play.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Evan Drellich of The Athletic has a book out today about the Astros cheating scandal.
Winning Fixes Everything
It's interesting how Mike Fiers seems to be regarded in the industry with polar opposite reactions. He is either a hero whistleblower or a pariah for breaking "the clubhouse code".
I don't think he is either. He was certainly bitter about being left off the Astros 2017 playoff roster, and then returning to Houston as an opposing player and getting lit up for 7 ER in one inning.
On the other hand, he did point out that young pitchers trying to break in got shellshocked by the Astros shenanigans and had their careers ruined. That's a valid point.
Winning Fixes Everything
It's interesting how Mike Fiers seems to be regarded in the industry with polar opposite reactions. He is either a hero whistleblower or a pariah for breaking "the clubhouse code".
I don't think he is either. He was certainly bitter about being left off the Astros 2017 playoff roster, and then returning to Houston as an opposing player and getting lit up for 7 ER in one inning.
On the other hand, he did point out that young pitchers trying to break in got shellshocked by the Astros shenanigans and had their careers ruined. That's a valid point.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
If he’s on the visiting team, hell yeah I’m booing. If he’s one of my guys I love it.
It might be the coach in me but I think baseball pace is fairly fast. By that I mean every pitch I am wondering what pitch may be thrown and based on that how should I position the defense. Then, what might the batter do and if people are on base will they be stealing so who should I pick to cover. Etc, etc etc.
There is so much to think about every pitch that time goes by fast and the pace of play is fine to me in most cases. But I do understand I am not a typical fan when it comes to the game.
I do think most of the younger generation doesn't actually think about the nuance of the game and therefore the pace is very slow because they just want to see 100 mph pitches and 500' HR's.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I agree with all your points.
As to this last sentence, do you think MLB themselves is partly to blame for this? I sometimes wonder thinking about how MLB closed their eyes during the steroid era because they wanted the home run to help the sport recover the from the cancelled 1994 World Series and if they were basically training fans that the HR was the be all and end all of the sport.
Spectators get the 20-30 minutes per game that pitchers and batters were wasting goofing off before the clock was implemented. My kids routinely were able to sit through entire games and be relatively entertained the entire time. It was great.
scoobus
Footballguy
You're changing defensive positioning every pitch?
Yes, to a certain extent. It might not be going full shift mode but there are defensive movements every pitch if you are functioning as a unit.
scoobus
Footballguy
I played baseball for quite a number of years. That seems pretty excessive.
I think to some degree but in general I just think the "need it now" direction our society is in is the biggest factor. I also don't think enough kids play on their own to develop a mind for the game. Little league coaches control way too much of the game so kids are never allowed to think about game situations or nuance.
Kids just don't play it enough on their own to develop that part of the game which ties into how you watch a game.
It might be as subtle as a couple steps right or left if the pitch is off speed/outside/inside/etc. but there should be some movement based on pitch sequencing.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
Happy day 1 of pitchers and catchers reporting.
Anyone mention that eliminating the shift should cause more base hits, which could ironically lengthen the game?
I'm not initially a fan of the schedule changes (less divisional games) but see the reasons why.
Anyone mention that eliminating the shift should cause more base hits, which could ironically lengthen the game?
I'm not initially a fan of the schedule changes (less divisional games) but see the reasons why.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
That's the change I like the most
dunfee555
Footballguy
Here's a really good breakdown of all the new rules and how they are going to be enforced. Looks like Spring Training is going to be a mess since they are going to be very strict on the rules at the beginning to force everyone to adjust.
www.espn.com
And to add to the mayhem at the start, they are also going to emphasize enforcement of the balk and illegal pitch rules. So even more adjustments for pitchers to make.
www.espn.com
What you need to know about MLB's 2023 rule changes
Major League Baseball is shaking up the way the game is played this season. We break down how the changes will impact the sport.
And to add to the mayhem at the start, they are also going to emphasize enforcement of the balk and illegal pitch rules. So even more adjustments for pitchers to make.
MLB plans to emphasize enforcement of balk rule
Major League Baseball plans to emphasize enforcement of the balk rule in 2023 as it implements sweeping rules changes, including a pitch clock that will place more focus on the arcane rule, league officials said Tuesday.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
pitch clock, limiting pickoffs and larger bases should mean more stolen bases.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Good
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
March 30th vs the Detroit Tigers, that's right baby, Rays season opener with my son and family, go every year they host one. .
-This shift outlaw in the infield is going to make the Rays a very dangerous baseball team. They don't hit home runs and a guy like Yandy Diaz who they just extended, he could see his batting average rise up to .320/.330 with this new rule. He hammers the ball straight up the middle, they won't be able to get to the ball with the shift being outlawed, I LOVE IT!!!
Old school baseball is back, remember teams like the Cardinals in the early to mid 80s? Speed will actually be a true commodity again. Players will be revered more for turning singles into doubles. And players with the gold gloves that can still turn plays even with the new rules are going to elevate further above others.
Teams that can hit vs just knocking out a Home run every other inning, they are going to take the league by storm.
The pitch clock sounds good but I would be OK with 20 seconds vs 15.
The bigger bases will be great for speedy guys that can just get a toe on the bigger bases and keep trucking.
Also stealing 2nd base had to just get a little easier for the fastest guys on the bases.
-This shift outlaw in the infield is going to make the Rays a very dangerous baseball team. They don't hit home runs and a guy like Yandy Diaz who they just extended, he could see his batting average rise up to .320/.330 with this new rule. He hammers the ball straight up the middle, they won't be able to get to the ball with the shift being outlawed, I LOVE IT!!!
Old school baseball is back, remember teams like the Cardinals in the early to mid 80s? Speed will actually be a true commodity again. Players will be revered more for turning singles into doubles. And players with the gold gloves that can still turn plays even with the new rules are going to elevate further above others.
Teams that can hit vs just knocking out a Home run every other inning, they are going to take the league by storm.
The pitch clock sounds good but I would be OK with 20 seconds vs 15.
The bigger bases will be great for speedy guys that can just get a toe on the bigger bases and keep trucking.
Also stealing 2nd base had to just get a little easier for the fastest guys on the bases.
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