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*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (2 Viewers)

It's doubtful even I would've predicted such a successful presidency at this point in his tenure. The list of accomplishments he's tacked on in the first half of his time in office has been quite impressive. Sure, debt is high, and the economy still needs help, unemployment is high, and there are other outstanding issues, but I seriously see that he is getting things done. Health care reform, financial reform, quite a lot of things moving forward in the stimulus bill (ARRA, one of which funds part of what I work on, which is electronic medical records - funding to move it forward with the newly released meaningful use standards, etc)...some really good stuff going on. And now he's winding down action in Iraq, got sanctions against Iran, the gulf spill seems to be at the very worst not getting any worse.On the way could be a new energy bill, and I think he wants to tackle immigration reform as well. He's certainly ambitious, and he's not the "leftist" president many thought he'd be (I was fairly sure he'd be more centrist, although independents aren't terribly happy).But looking back over what he's accomplished thus far, I'm fairly content, and I think public perception of the stuff he's doing is seriously lagging, like with many good presidents. If the economy picks back up, Obama is going to be riding a huge wave of popular suppport. If not, he's unlikely to be re-elected, but still, odds are he'll be remembered as having done a great job.Figured I'd bump this old thread with ruminations on where we're at now, versus what I would have imagined back during the campaign.
I'm still disappointed in the way he handled health care reform, and the outcome of that process. Likewise, I don't think the stimulus issue was handled well. He's been too quick to pass the agenda setting for major issues to the congressional leaders, and then step in after the fact once the Republicans have taken over the narrative and public opinion is driving the wrong way. At the same time, the Administration often comes off as hypersensitive and over-reactive to criticism. It's pretty common for new administrations to struggle in the first couple of years, and you can make a case that his has started in one of the most precarious positions since the early 20th century. Two wars, a major financial crisis, and a major budget crisis looming on the horizon - that's going to stress any Presidency, not to mention the whole Gulf fiasco. Given the circumstances I'm comfortable giving him a B on the grading curve; however, we're at a point that we need A+ leadership.
 
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One has to wonder if Adonis would have posted the same thing even if the world has ended because Obama accidentally pushed the red button.

A couple of the things that I have liked has been his following more closely the Bush administrations execution of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars than the candidate Obama version would have seemed. Increasing the drone campaign in Pakistan and other areas and not following through with the closing of GitMo.

There are plenty of areas of criticism but one area that I think has the most immediate and real impact was his push for healthcare while the economy continued and continues to limp along. Right now, we have seen data that seems to suggest that companies are recovering but they are not hiring. The feedback from CEO's is that there is just too much uncertainty about the future to hire. Sure, some of that has nothing to do with Obama or his policies but some of it does. Some of it is about the costs of the healthcare bill that are still being hashed out or the costs of tax increases or regulation increases. This is the biggest thing for me that is infuriating to me. We have thrown money we do not have into getting the economy going but then make sure that the business environment is one that discourages economic growth. It is kind of like someone trying to jump start a car while having the radio, GPS, lights on and a compressor plugged into the lighter.

I think that now that we are seeing unfavorable ratings beating favorable reflects the misplacing of priority and attention. It is increasingly looking like unemployment will still be in the 9's come 2012 and if so, I believe Obama will be a 1 term President and I will not be sad to see him go.

 
Perceptions are certainly going to be different here. Most conservatives and Republicans that I know believe he has been one of the worst presidents ever. No surprise there, you could predict this from the beginning. Many true progressives that I know believe he has been weak and disappointing. Again, that is somewhat predictable. And liberal Democrats not quite in the far Left category, such as Adonis, are going to be very pleased.

That leaves the general public who doesn't belong to any of these groups, including myself. About 25% of us are politically interested independents, and we are generally concerned by the big spending and unemployment. The other 75% aren't paying attention to politics, probably won't vote this November, and won't even start to focus on politics until the summer of 2012. At that point unless the Republicans have managed to produce someone with enough charisma to challenge Obama, he's going to be re-elected. Since I don't see that person on the landscape, I would bet a great deal of money that Obama will be re-elected rather easily.
The driving factor on whether he gets re-elected is the economy. Sure, who the GOP puts up there to challenge him will factor in but it is not the main variable.
 
Perceptions are certainly going to be different here. Most conservatives and Republicans that I know believe he has been one of the worst presidents ever. No surprise there, you could predict this from the beginning. Many true progressives that I know believe he has been weak and disappointing. Again, that is somewhat predictable. And liberal Democrats not quite in the far Left category, such as Adonis, are going to be very pleased.

That leaves the general public who doesn't belong to any of these groups, including myself. About 25% of us are politically interested independents, and we are generally concerned by the big spending and unemployment. The other 75% aren't paying attention to politics, probably won't vote this November, and won't even start to focus on politics until the summer of 2012. At that point unless the Republicans have managed to produce someone with enough charisma to challenge Obama, he's going to be re-elected. Since I don't see that person on the landscape, I would bet a great deal of money that Obama will be re-elected rather easily.
The driving factor on whether he gets re-elected is the economy. Sure, who the GOP puts up there to challenge him will factor in but it is not the main variable.
I think the republican candidate is almost as important as the economy for those who are in the middle and voted for Obama. Personally, if the candidate is someone like Romney or heaven forbid, Palin, there is no way I would vote Republican no matter how the economy is doing. Whoever the candidate is has to appeal to the people in the middle third and can't be some retread that nobody likes aka Romney or Gingrich. I also think unemployment in the mid 8% and trending downward makes Obama a lock to get reelected. Bu8t if it is still more than 9%, then it's wide open.

 
...one area that I think has the most immediate and real impact was his push for healthcare while the economy continued and continues to limp along. Right now, we have seen data that seems to suggest that companies are recovering but they are not hiring. The feedback from CEO's is that there is just too much uncertainty about the future to hire. Sure, some of that has nothing to do with Obama or his policies but some of it does. Some of it is about the costs of the healthcare bill that are still being hashed out or the costs of tax increases or regulation increases. This is the biggest thing for me that is infuriating to me. ...
So holding off on health care reform a few years would have created a greater sense of certainty? This is just stupid. The uncertainty that exists while "the costs of the healthcare bill that are still being hashed out or the costs of tax increases or regulation increases" is very short lived compared to the uncertainty that there will be some unknown health care reform in the future as has been promised for the past forty years.
 
One has to wonder if Adonis would have posted the same thing even if the world has ended because Obama accidentally pushed the red button.
If the world ended, posting in the FFA would be rather difficult.Your point, I suspect, is that Adonis is closed-minded. But exaggerating your point makes it less persuasive, not more. JMHO.
 
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Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on.

Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.

Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.

I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington.

Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.

 
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
 
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
 
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on.

Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.

Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.

I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington.

Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
And I'm in the other camp...didn't get what I vote for.I didn't vote for unemployment to go up by 25%.

I didn't vote for real estate bailouts and bandaids that haven't worked at a huge price tag.

I didn't vote for health care reform that forces me to purchase from Big Insurance and offers me no savings.

I didn't vote for expanding the war in Afghanistan.

I didn't vote for another Katrina like response to a disaster.

 
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
You happy with the state of the economy too?
 
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
You happy with the state of the economy too?
No, but I think it's riitarded to blame it on Obama. Things could have certainly been done better, but overall I think they kept things from getting much much worse.
 
Josie Maran said:
BassNBrew said:
Josie Maran said:
adonis said:
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
You happy with the state of the economy too?
No, but I think it's riitarded to blame it on Obama. Things could have certainly been done better, but overall I think they kept things from getting much much worse.
I don't thing we got the bang for the bucks we invested. Real estate market is in the crapper despite spending huge cash to turn this around. The unemployment rate is too high give the stimulus monies on the table.
 
adonis said:
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Obama is building a legacy, just not sure it will be very kind to him. One person who will be happy is Jimmy Carter.
 
Josie Maran said:
BassNBrew said:
Josie Maran said:
adonis said:
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on.

Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.

Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.

I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington.

Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
You happy with the state of the economy too?
No, but I think it's riitarded to blame it on Obama. Things could have certainly been done better, but overall I think they kept things from getting much much worse.
I don't thing we got the bang for the bucks we invested. Real estate market is in the crapper despite spending huge cash to turn this around. The unemployment rate is too high give the stimulus monies on the table.
I agree 100%.
 
Statorama said:
adonis said:
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
Man up and do this stuff in quatrains, or be gone!ETA: Keep the Tea Leoni though.
 
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BassNBrew said:
And I'm in the other camp...didn't get what I vote for.I didn't vote for unemployment to go up by 25%.I didn't vote for real estate bailouts and bandaids that haven't worked at a huge price tag.I didn't vote for health care reform that forces me to purchase from Big Insurance and offers me no savings.I didn't vote for expanding the war in Afghanistan.I didn't vote for another Katrina like response to a disaster.
What did you think he was going to do?His campaign promises:Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions - CheckGive tax credits to those who need help to pay health premiums - CheckRequire large employers to contribute to a national health plan - CheckDirect military leaders to end war in Iraq - CheckSend two additional brigades to Afghanistan - CheckRequire new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions - CheckCreate new financial regulations - CheckSign a "universal" health care bill - CheckGet his daughters a puppy - CheckExtend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits - CheckEnd no-bid contracts above $25,000 - oppsAllow five days of public comment before signing bills - his badTougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials - Did he say that?Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit - He can't do the impossible Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels - Not in his administration No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase." - You folks believed that one?
 
Josie Maran said:
tommyboy said:
i think he needs to play more golf and go on more vacations, seems to be working out well for him
:homer: :lmao: :lmao:
Obama Has Shot 41 Rounds of Golf as Presidentby Keith Koffler on July 16, 2010, 3:30 pmPresident Barack Obama has played a remarkable 41 rounds of golf since becoming president, easily outpacing his predecessor...compares to only 24 total outings for former President George W. Bush, according to statistics compiled by White House chronicler Mark Knoller of CBS News. Bush, whose golf outings were used to help deride him as a callow, lazy, rich boy, played his 24th and last round on Oct. 13, 2003, saying he was ending the practice out of respect for the families of Americans killed in Iraq.
 
Josie Maran said:
tommyboy said:
i think he needs to play more golf and go on more vacations, seems to be working out well for him
:homer: :lmao: :lmao:
Obama Has Shot 41 Rounds of Golf as Presidentby Keith Koffler on July 16, 2010, 3:30 pmPresident Barack Obama has played a remarkable 41 rounds of golf since becoming president, easily outpacing his predecessor...compares to only 24 total outings for former President George W. Bush, according to statistics compiled by White House chronicler Mark Knoller of CBS News. Bush, whose golf outings were used to help deride him as a callow, lazy, rich boy, played his 24th and last round on Oct. 13, 2003, saying he was ending the practice out of respect for the families of Americans killed in Iraq.
So he doesn't even get to play once a week? That sucks.
 
Josie Maran said:
adonis said:
Yeah, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I'm pleased with what Obama's doing, as much of it is what he campaigned on. Sure, the bills being passed aren't ideal, but they're steps forward, imo. He's getting things done that few presidents have ever been able to get done, and the sheer amount of high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.Just as it's not surprising that I'm pleased, it's not surprising that chadastrama, stataroma, sofakings, et al are not pleased. They weren't pleased with him as a candidate, and aren't pleased with him as president.I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington. Say what you will about him, but he's building a strong legacy...and it's not a legacy built on beginning a war.
Agreed, but the one thing that is really getting to me is his continuation of and expansion of federal warrantless surveillance.
Yeah, I'm not thrilled about that either. You win some with him, you lose some - but overall, I'm leaning solidly towards the win side regarding my take on how he's doing. He's gotta leave some stuff undone for a second term though, right? :thumbup:
 
Josie Maran said:
tommyboy said:
i think he needs to play more golf and go on more vacations, seems to be working out well for him
:thumbup: :lmao: :lmao:
Obama Has Shot 41 Rounds of Golf as President

by Keith Koffler on July 16, 2010, 3:30 pm

President Barack Obama has played a remarkable 41 rounds of golf since becoming president, easily outpacing his predecessor...compares to only 24 total outings for former President George W. Bush, according to statistics compiled by White House chronicler Mark Knoller of CBS News. Bush, whose golf outings were used to help deride him as a callow, lazy, rich boy, played his 24th and last round on Oct. 13, 2003, saying he was ending the practice out of respect for the families of Americans killed in Iraq.
Thanks for that. This guy is going on my must read list.But I hear The Pres will be ending this practice out of respect for the shrimp in the Gulf.

 
I don't thing we got the bang for the bucks we invested. Real estate market is in the crapper despite spending huge cash to turn this around. The unemployment rate is too high give the stimulus monies on the table.
I don't think any amount of spending would've kept the RE market out of the crapper. The circumstances leading up to the bubble bursting lead to an inevitable downturn in the market, but how sharply it was going to crash was the only thing that could be affected. I think the administrations efforts on that front were pretty good, doing what reasonable things they could to soften the blow with tax credits and other incentives.
 
Statorama said:
adonis said:
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
I like the analogy, but I think it's wrong. But who can tell right now. I know there will be a good many people who benefit from it though. Remains to be seen how far the downside goes though...as there's almost always a downside to these things. But does the good outweigh the bad? We'll see.But the ambition of this administration in putting forward a lot of "reform" legislation and getting it passed, well, it's not very common to see such successes. And if he gets an energy bill and immigration bill through before he leaves, well, that's mighty impressive, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him.(I think his chances are seriously hampered after the elections in a few months...but we'll see what happens. An influx of Republican leadership ...oxymoron?...will test his leadership skills even further).
 
Statorama said:
adonis said:
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
I like the analogy, but I think it's wrong. But who can tell right now. I know there will be a good many people who benefit from it though. Remains to be seen how far the downside goes though...as there's almost always a downside to these things. But does the good outweigh the bad? We'll see.But the ambition of this administration in putting forward a lot of "reform" legislation and getting it passed, well, it's not very common to see such successes. And if he gets an energy bill and immigration bill through before he leaves, well, that's mighty impressive, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him.(I think his chances are seriously hampered after the elections in a few months...but we'll see what happens. An influx of Republican leadership ...oxymoron?...will test his leadership skills even further).
He's proven he dosen't need 60 Senate votes to push through legislation he wants. While impressive, I just wish he hadn't done it in a back-alley kind of way (cloture?). Heck, Bush got bipartisan support on such far reaching things as the Patriot Act and No Child Left Behind and was able to get those implemented with up/down votes.I also wish Obama would be open to more ideas other than his own.
 
adonis said:
I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington.
I agree, and it has, inexplicably, gotten him in hot water with liberals as well as conservatives. I knew he was going to be progressive on social issues, and hawkish on military issues. But those two characteristics seemed to have ticked off the right and the left.Which is why I think his approval numbers, which are troubling, should be seen in context, and not interpreted MERELY as a rejection of his social programs and health care program. As many people on thre right who are angry that he is gone too far, many on the left are angry that he has not gone far enough. The result is very low approval numbers.
 
Statorama said:
adonis said:
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
I like the analogy, but I think it's wrong. But who can tell right now. I know there will be a good many people who benefit from it though. Remains to be seen how far the downside goes though...as there's almost always a downside to these things. But does the good outweigh the bad? We'll see.But the ambition of this administration in putting forward a lot of "reform" legislation and getting it passed, well, it's not very common to see such successes. And if he gets an energy bill and immigration bill through before he leaves, well, that's mighty impressive, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him.(I think his chances are seriously hampered after the elections in a few months...but we'll see what happens. An influx of Republican leadership ...oxymoron?...will test his leadership skills even further).
He's proven he dosen't need 60 Senate votes to push through legislation he wants. While impressive, I just wish he hadn't done it in a back-alley kind of way (cloture?). Heck, Bush got bipartisan support on such far reaching things as the Patriot Act and No Child Left Behind and was able to get those implemented with up/down votes.I also wish Obama would be open to more ideas other than his own.
Obama stated that he would cross party lines, he has not come close to touching the center line. When you control the house it is very easy to push through your agenda. Things are looking that they could be much different come November. If the GOP takes back the house then we will see what Obama is really like working with both sides.
 
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adonis said:
I'm really just posting here to say that I feel like I got what I voted for. He's coming through on a lot of what I wanted to see, and I like his approach to foreign affairs, and what he brings to washington.
I agree, and it has, inexplicably, gotten him in hot water with liberals as well as conservatives. I knew he was going to be progressive on social issues, and hawkish on military issues. But those two characteristics seemed to have ticked off the right and the left.Which is why I think his approval numbers, which are troubling, should be seen in context, and not interpreted MERELY as a rejection of his social programs and health care program. As many people on thre right who are angry that he is gone too far, many on the left are angry that he has not gone far enough. The result is very low approval numbers.
Not compared to a lot of other Presidents at this point in their first terms.
 
Obama stated that he would cross party lines, he has not come close to touching the center line.
There is no center line.There is a far left line, a middle left line, and Obama has stretched that line so far that it's almost snapped and he's holding it at a slightly left line.The other line is so far out to the right, and almost all republicans are pulling in unison to keep it out of reach of Obama, the entire time complaining that he's not reaching out to them.There just isn't much room for middle ground between the two parties as they stand now.
 
Statorama said:
adonis said:
high-impact legislation he's passed is impressive.
Not when the impact is going to result in a negative.His Obamacare legislation is like watching that asteroid approach Earth in that Tea Leoni movie. You know the impact is coming. All you can do is hold onto your loved ones, get right with God, and wait for it's inevitable fatal crushing impact.History is going to be incredibly unkind to Obama, especially when the full devistation of his policies are fully realized.
I like the analogy, but I think it's wrong. But who can tell right now. I know there will be a good many people who benefit from it though. Remains to be seen how far the downside goes though...as there's almost always a downside to these things. But does the good outweigh the bad? We'll see.But the ambition of this administration in putting forward a lot of "reform" legislation and getting it passed, well, it's not very common to see such successes. And if he gets an energy bill and immigration bill through before he leaves, well, that's mighty impressive, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him.(I think his chances are seriously hampered after the elections in a few months...but we'll see what happens. An influx of Republican leadership ...oxymoron?...will test his leadership skills even further).
He's proven he dosen't need 60 Senate votes to push through legislation he wants. While impressive, I just wish he hadn't done it in a back-alley kind of way (cloture?). Heck, Bush got bipartisan support on such far reaching things as the Patriot Act and No Child Left Behind and was able to get those implemented with up/down votes.I also wish Obama would be open to more ideas other than his own.
Obama is open to more ideas other than his own, but that doesn't mean he should incorporate ideas opposite of his own.And let's also shine the light on the republicans, and their intentions regarding being "partners" with Obama in passing much of anything. They're just simply not interested unless it's done on their terms...which is tough because they were the party that lost the election, that lost seats, that lost power, and with that power, they lost a strong ability to shape legislation.So rather than working with Obama to shape legislation that was more in the middle, they chose to do their best to prevent him from getting legislation passed, and demonized the legislation, in hopes that it would score them seats in the next elections, so they could have more power, and more say, and shape the legislation.It seems that it's just jockeying for the position of bully to get your agenda passed. If you are not the bully, then you try to prevent the bully from having his way.And in spite of those efforts, Obama has still put forward and passed some sweeping legislation that if it's reasonably effective, and the negatives aren't too bad, should improve the state of our nation. And to do that in spite of such fierce, and there's no doubt the opposition has been fierce, it's all the more impressive.
 
Hey, he won. He's told us so himself. He doesn't have to incorporate Republican ideas, and that's fine.

It's another thing for him to be disingenuous and say that the Republicans haven't offered any proposals and are just saying "no" to everything. With a few tweaks to his Obamacare legislation he could have had full bipartisan support. He chose to go a different route and I hope he pays for it dearly in 2012.

His policies also seem rooted in keeping us at 9%+ unemployment for the forseeable future. That bothers me.

 
Hey, he won. He's told us so himself. He doesn't have to incorporate Republican ideas, and that's fine.It's another thing for him to be disingenuous and say that the Republicans haven't offered any proposals and are just saying "no" to everything. He chose to go a different route and I hope he pays for it dearly in 2012.His policies also seem rooted in keeping us at 9%+ unemployment for the forseeable future. That bothers me.
How about those filibusters?
With a few tweaks to his Obamacare legislation he could have had full bipartisan support.
bull ####! they caved plenty and still didn't get ONE republican vote.
 
With a few tweaks to his Obamacare legislation he could have had full bipartisan support.
bull ####! they caved plenty and still didn't get ONE republican vote.
That's what they want you to belive but....
While Obama claimed that Republican ideas had been “incorporated,” Rep. Michael Burgess, M.D., pointed out that Republican amendments that had been passed in committee all got stripped out of the final bill, without explanation. The only Republican ideas from the Feb 25 summit that Obama liked were very weak: putting a few more dollars, amounting to “budget dust,” into pilot programs on tort reform, and Sen. Tom Coburn’s idea of deploying undercover investigators to find Medicare fraud.
 
Hey, he won. He's told us so himself. He doesn't have to incorporate Republican ideas, and that's fine.It's another thing for him to be disingenuous and say that the Republicans haven't offered any proposals and are just saying "no" to everything. With a few tweaks to his Obamacare legislation he could have had full bipartisan support. He chose to go a different route and I hope he pays for it dearly in 2012.His policies also seem rooted in keeping us at 9%+ unemployment for the forseeable future. That bothers me.
There was almost no way Obama could have received bipartisan support sticking primarily to the platforms and ideals that got him elected.For him to have received "bipartisan support" in a broad sense would have been nearly impossible because the two parties ideas of what needed to be done were very far apart, so if Obama, for whatever lunatic reason, decided to adopt republican ideals, the democrats would've abandoned him.As it was, Obama displeased the left, and the right...which should indicate that he tried to appease both sides. Had he simply wanted to ram it through congress with no concern to getting conservatives on board, he could've just pleased the left and put all of their wish list items in it. :confused: . The reality is that there wasn't any practical way to get reform legislation passed that was bipartisan in the political climate that Obama walked into. None. Republicans wanted one thing more than any reform, and that was to get more seats in the upcoming election. Had the parties been reversed, I'm sure Democrats would've done the same thing, so I'm not saying they were wrong...but to pretend there was some COMMON GROUND that Obama chose not to go to is silly. There wasn't any, especially for health care reform. There was no winning bipartisan platform.
 
More

Many GOP amendments have aligned quite well with the President's rhetoric regarding health care reform legislation. But Republicans, especially in the House, have been shunned by committee chairs and Democratic leaders who simply refuse to accept GOP amendments to health care bills, even when those amendments align with the President's stated goals for health care reform. So I ask you, which party is killing bipartisanship?

The President purported his belief in markets during his Wednesday address to the Joint Session of Congress, saying that his "guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition. That's how the market works." Indeed. Republicans agree that competition could be a greater cost cutting measure than any proposal yet on the table.

But Arizona Republican Rep. John Shaddeg's bill (H.R. 3217) to allow Americans to purchase health insurance across state lines, and therefore to dramatically step up competitive forces in the insurance market, has idled in the Energy and Commerce Committee since July. Perhaps committee leaders should speed up consideration, given that the President's "guiding principle" includes relying on market forces and increased competition to mitigate problems in the health care sector.

On Wednesday, Obama assured the country that "I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need."

Republicans share the President's aversion to bureaucrats making personal health care decisions. But apparently congressional Democrats do not. Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., offered an amendment in the Energy and Commerce Committee that would explicitly prohibit federal officials from making those decisions. Led by Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., committee Democrats killed the amendment.

The President on Wednesday also expressed his distaste for conservatives who claim that, under the President's plan, the government would euthanize granny to save on costs. But an amendment proposed by Rep. Walley Herger, R-Calif., which would forbid the federal government from conducting comparative effectiveness research on health care treatments--the precursor to health care rationing--was killed in the Ways and Means committee at Chairman Rangel's behest.

President Obama's much-touted claim that he will not sign a health care bill that "adds one dime to the deficit" sounds good to the GOP. But, once again, congressional Democrats don't seem to share this distaste for deficits.

Democrats killed an amendment in committee that would ensure the President's no-deficit pledge actually happens. The amendment, offered by Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Calif., would have prohibited any health care legislation from going into effect unless it were deficit neutral. The Dems didn't like that.

The GOP also tried to lend a hand to President Obama in helping him to keep his campaign pledge of not raising taxes for individuals making less than $200,000 per year. An amendment offered by Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., would exempt all individuals making less than that from all taxes contained in the bill. It was killed in the Ways and Means Committee. A similar amendment, offered by Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers in the Education and Labor Committee, was shot down by panel Democrats, with Chairman Miller leading the charge.

Republicans agree with Obama that no health care plan should slash Medicare benefits for seniors. "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how [seniors' Medicare] benefits will be cut," he said in his address to the Joint Session. Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, R-Fla., tried to ensure the President's promise would be kept when she offered an amendment in the Ways and Means Committee that would strip the bill of language that cuts funding for Medicare Advantage. One quarter of seniors get their health care through the program, and according to independent fact-checkers slashing funding would not be able to prevent cuts in coverage, but Chairman Rangel and committee Democrats defeated the amendment.

President Obama has also touted the economic necessity of his health care proposals, indicating that reform would be a boon for the American economy. Republicans have tried to help the President form legislation that would improve its impact on the economy--and strip economically damaging provisions.

The employer mandate, according to some analyses, would, within five years of its enactment result in 1.6 million fewer jobs, a $200 billion contraction in GDP, 1.2 million fewer work hours per week, and an annual decline in wages of $71 billion.

Republican amendments offered in separate committees by Reps. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., and Wally Herger, R-Calif, would suspend the employer mandate if unemployment reaches 10 percent. Both amendments were killed in committee.

To address the objections of lawmakers who rejected that the employer mandate would be economically detrimental, Reps. Dave Reichert, R-Wash., and Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., offered amendments in two separate committees that would exempt from the employer mandate any business that claims (and whose claims are certified by the Secretary of the Treasury) that the mandate has imposed financial hardships that have forced those businesses to lay off workers or cut salaries, or prevented them from hiring additional workers. Both of these amendments were defeated by Democrats on the respective panels.

Rep. Buck McKeon, R-Calif, took an even more conciliatory approach, offering an amendment that would have created small business-specific plans that would minimize the financial burden on the employer mandate and allow them to band together with other businesses to buy health care coverage at a lower cost. This amendment was also defeated in Ways and Means.

The President also tried on Wednesday to put to rest conservative concerns that tax dollars could be used to fund abortions. "Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions," the President claimed. But congressional Democrats don't seem to share the President's aversion to taxpayer funded abortions.

Three Republican lawmakers, Reps. Sam Johnson, Tex., Eric Cantor, Va., and Mark Souder, Ind., offered separate amendments to remove this language from the legislation. All three amendments were killed in committee.

An amendment offered by Rep. Nathan Deal, R-Ga., attempted to strike language from the legislation that would allow the federal government to withhold funding from states that refuse to use tax dollars to fund abortions. The amendment was defeated in committee on a party-line vote.

Contrary to the Times's and Post's claims, congressional Democrats have been the ones shunning bipartisanship. Republicans have offered numerous tweaks to the various health care bills that would help the President do exactly what he says he wants to do. It's the Dems that reject legislation by virtue of the party offering it.

That the Times, the Post, and numerous other outlets continue to deride Republicans for refusing to work with the President indicates that they, like many Democrats, will continue to portray the GOP as an obstructionist force that won't allow the President to fix our health care system, regardless of the facts.

Democrats have, from the start, opposed Republican amendments while shouting about the GOP's refusal to work with the majority party. For those Democrats, and the media outlets that blindly support them, considering proposals from the other side has nothing to do with compromise, and bipartisanship is simply code for agreeing with what the far left has to offer.
 
100 worst stimulus projects

The very first one

Forest Service to Replace Windows in Visitor Center Closed in 2007 (Amboy, WA) - $554,763
How about the 100 best stimulus projects?There will always be waste in government...not that it should be condoned, just shouldn't be surprising.

But the stimulus projects are doing, and have done, a lot of good as well.

Again, what was the cumulative effect of the stimulus? Yet to be seen, but there are quite a few items I'm excited about, one being the federal stimulus money going towards modernizing health care, with Medicare/Medicaid, hospitals, doctors, and clinics being incentivized to meet meaningful standard goals in patient care, using technology.

That should pay dividends for decades to come, once implemented.

 
One has to wonder if Adonis would have posted the same thing even if the world has ended because Obama accidentally pushed the red button.
If the world ended, posting in the FFA would be rather difficult.Your point, I suspect, is that Adonis is closed-minded. But exaggerating your point makes it less persuasive, not more. JMHO.
I have faith in the indestructible nature of the FFA.
 

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