Hillary is still at around 6% at InTrade.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter adonis
- Start date
BuddyKnuckles
Footballguy
i think that is just her not being able to help herself. She wants to play nice, has been for the most part. But, still cant help but to get a few shots in at Obama when the opportunity arises. Best thing that could happen to the Dems now is for Bushy and McCane to continue to take shots at them. Nothing will bring together Dems like a little bit of political yapping from the GOPI'm not so sure. She's going around places telling everyone she's leading in popular votes-counting MI and FL as-is and ignoring the 4 caucus states where vote numbers weren't released. I think on some level she still believes she can win this thing. I think deceiving people on her supposed lead in popular votes does nothing but stir the anger of her supporters who feel the nomination was "stolen" from her. I'm ok with her staying in the race and making her electibility arguements (she may even be more electable than Obama), but stop with the "I have more votes than him" nonsense.Clinton is going through the motions at this point. And actually, probably to the benefit of Obama in November since she is playing nice right now. You make these last 7 or so contests feel like they are important. Continue to pump up Democratic registration numbers and general interest.
As long as Clinton and Obama play nice, the next few weeks are nothing but good news for Dems.
Otherwise, I'd agree that playing it out to the end helps Obama. He's going to be able to say that he ran against a Clinton in times of economic troubles, took her best shots, and came out the winner. In that sense, I think it does make him a stronger candidate.
The Commish
Footballguy
He's on CNN now, ripping McCain a new one 
flufhed
Footballguy
Unbelievable that Utah is not one of the top 10 whitest states. It certainly is in spirit.
flufhed
Footballguy
Can someone give us an idea of what was said?He's on CNN now, ripping McCain a new one
The Commish
Footballguy
Just discussing with Wolf Blitzer all the context issues McCain is creating. He was pretty dismissive of McCain's behavior and I can see where people might see him as someone who is talking down to them...he certainly used that tone to dismiss McCain and his antics...imo, it's a warranted tone when dealing with what McCain's been doing.Can someone give us an idea of what was said?He's on CNN now, ripping McCain a new one
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
I've never heard anybody say that all (or most) white Hillary voters are racist. However, there is plenty of evidence indicating that some of them are, and that this is a huge factor in WV, KY and appalachian regions of OH, PA, VA, and NC.It is just vacuous to claim that racism is not a factor here.Edit: Obama and Clinton are NOT "that far off on the basic issues". There are almost no substantive policy differences between the two candidates. There was a lot more diversity in the policies of the republican candidates than the dems this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
BuddyKnuckles
Footballguy
Hammered Finz
Footballguy
Can't be very comforting to see your presumptive nominee losing primaries by 42 points last week, and now 20+ points this week.. (not to mention PA).. Hillary has been winning more states in the last few weeks, (including battleground states) than Obama... Obama should carry Oregon, but still should be a little disconcerning...
even though she is behind in delegates, she seems to have the all important momentum on her side, perceived or not..
(I know the Obama crowd will poo-poo these losses, but IMO they should be concerned about November... you have to carry the "ordinary folk" vote to win)
even though she is behind in delegates, she seems to have the all important momentum on her side, perceived or not..
(I know the Obama crowd will poo-poo these losses, but IMO they should be concerned about November... you have to carry the "ordinary folk" vote to win)
Last edited by a moderator:
I must say this is an interesting new argument.
BuddyKnuckles
Footballguy
indeed. Kentucky has voted with the winning candidate in each of the last 10 POTUS elections. How can Obama even possibly think he can buck that trend?
Hammered Finz
Footballguy
as I said, let the poo-pooing begin
The Democrats have 2 GREAT choices to choose from. Choosing one is nearly impossible, but if given the choice, I'm going with "Change...Hope....Change.....Hope....Global Warming."as I said, let the poo-pooing begin
Obama is going to murder him in fundraising. He's going to have to lean on the RNC which somehow is killing the DNC in raising money.
Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, his presidential money apparatus slowed only slightly, raised more than $31 million in April, outdistancing Republican John McCain, who nevertheless enjoyed his best fundraising month yet. McCain raised nearly $18 million in April as his presidential campaign consolidated his fundraising base. He spent only about a third of that, capitalizing on his status as the Republican Party's presidential nominee-in-waiting.The RNC, which is the party's main political arm, had nearly 10 times more cash on hand than its Democratic counterpart at the end of April, a notable GOP advantage in what has otherwise been Democratic fundraising dominance this election.The committee on Tuesday reported having $40.1 million in the bank. The Democratic National Committee had $4.4 million.The RNC raised $15.7 million in April compared to $4.7 million by the DNC.Significantly, the financial disparity comes in a presidential election year when the candidates rely on the parties to mobilize voters and promote their message. Overall this year, the RNC has raised more than $52 million, the DNC has raised more than $22 million.McCain plans to accept public financing for the general election — a sum of about $85 million. Obama is expected to decline the public money, raising more on his own. On Tuesday, his campaign reported he had $9.2 million set aside for the general election.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not really part of the "Obama crowd" but I wonder if it matters now. Is it about winning states late or is it about winning overall?? Is it a sprint or a marathon? I have to give the guy credit for being in this position. Yes, it's easy to lose sight of, but I think it deserves continued recognition. He's taken on the Clinton machine and done very, very well. I've been hearing a lot about "winning swing states" etc in the last few weeks. The assumption here is that the historical political map holds true and the traditional swing states do become the swing states once again. I'm not so sure that's going to happen, but if it does remain as it has in years past, then Obama will be in for a battle. Time will tell. I do have to say, the more the economy is front and center the worse it is for McCain. He's a dead man walking if he doesn't come up with some sort of policy solutions other than giving tax credits.Hammered Finz said:
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Barrack gets a B- for his speech in Iowa.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Only saw the end. The beginning must've sucked.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
It was weird. He was inciting the crowd to boo. It was like a Romney rally.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Was there a pervy grin?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I said B-, not F.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Only by Chris Matthews on MSNBC.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
Annoying Hillary soundbite of the night:
"It's often said, as __whatever state she happens to win___goes, so goes the nation."
"It's often said, as __whatever state she happens to win___goes, so goes the nation."
BuddyKnuckles
Footballguy
Did she really use that tonight?Annoying Hillary soundbite of the night:"It's often said, as __whatever state she happens to win___goes, so goes the nation."
cstu
Footballguy
Did she really use that tonight?Annoying Hillary soundbite of the night:"It's often said, as __whatever state she happens to win___goes, so goes the nation."
cstu
Footballguy
Beginning was slow but it was better by the end. It seemed like a quickly thrown together speech that tried to cover too many bases.
flufhed
Footballguy
Actually, the more I thought about it, it makes sense. First, there is a pretty big Latino population. Also a decent number of Native Americans. But the biggest factor is that the Mormon church has brought in a lot of immigrants from other countries. Salt Lake is weird in that there are more Africans turned american than African-americans. A Large amount of pacific islanders, too, where the LDS church is strong.BuddyKnuckles said:i've got to callflufhed said:on that one. Are there even ANY minorities in Utah?
flufhed
Footballguy
By the way, can a Hillary supporter (Gopher State?) help me out on something: isn't Kentucky one of those states where "Democrats have no shot in November," such that it doesn't matter, and we can ignore last night's results? You know, like Clinton has said about Utah, Idaho and others? And isn't Oregon one of those "battleground" states?
djcolts
Footballguy
It doesn't fit the media narrative to keep the race interesting.
RBM
Footballguy
Oregon is not a battleground state.And ALOT of Obama wins came in states where he doesnt have a shot in November.
skol asylum
Footballguy
http://www.270towin.com/Starting with the 2004 view, I think he has a good shot to turn CO, NM, IA, and VA. McCain may turn over NH which for whatever reason seems to like the old codger. Even without OH and FL which I think he can still compete in your looking at a 282-256 win for Obama.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Thune opposes Obama on federal role in wind
Brittany Westerberg • Argus Leader • May 20, 2008
Sen. John Thune said Monday he disagrees with Sen. Barack Obama that federal money should be devoted to building wind energy transmission lines.
In an Argus Leader interview Friday, Obama said federal money should play a role in building transmission lines and tax incentives should be extended to help develop wind power.
While Thune agrees with the need to extend tax incentives, the private sector should be responsible for transmission lines, he told the Downtown Rotary Club at the Holiday Inn City Centre on Monday. Companies are willing to spend the money to build those lines as long as the tax incentives are continued, he said.
Any investment in wind energy will help South Dakota's economy, Thune said, but he would like to see local organizations take a lead role.
"Wouldn't it be great for these projects to be financed by local people and money?" he said.
Transmission lines are expensive. Materials can cost from $150,000 to $1 million per mile, according to Steve Wegmen, analyst for the South Dakota Public Utilities Commission.
Gary Hanson, chairman of the PUC, says states and counties disagree about where transmission lines should meet, just as they disagreed in the 1950s about roads before the interstate highway system. Hanson said the federal government should design an interstate transmission system similar to the highway system.
"If we build transmission in South Dakota, it can't end at a cornfield in Minnesota," Hanson said.
Everything I read about Obama and his changes he wants to do with federal money, if he's elected people better be ready for taxes increases for all income levels.
Brittany Westerberg • Argus Leader • May 20, 2008
Sen. John Thune said Monday he disagrees with Sen. Barack Obama that federal money should be devoted to building wind energy transmission lines.
In an Argus Leader interview Friday, Obama said federal money should play a role in building transmission lines and tax incentives should be extended to help develop wind power.
While Thune agrees with the need to extend tax incentives, the private sector should be responsible for transmission lines, he told the Downtown Rotary Club at the Holiday Inn City Centre on Monday. Companies are willing to spend the money to build those lines as long as the tax incentives are continued, he said.
Any investment in wind energy will help South Dakota's economy, Thune said, but he would like to see local organizations take a lead role.
"Wouldn't it be great for these projects to be financed by local people and money?" he said.
Transmission lines are expensive. Materials can cost from $150,000 to $1 million per mile, according to Steve Wegmen, analyst for the South Dakota Public Utilities Commission.
Gary Hanson, chairman of the PUC, says states and counties disagree about where transmission lines should meet, just as they disagreed in the 1950s about roads before the interstate highway system. Hanson said the federal government should design an interstate transmission system similar to the highway system.
"If we build transmission in South Dakota, it can't end at a cornfield in Minnesota," Hanson said.
Everything I read about Obama and his changes he wants to do with federal money, if he's elected people better be ready for taxes increases for all income levels.
adonis
Footballguy
There are worse things than tax increases gopher.
.....and Obama takes another step toward an ingenious feeling that is permeating his campaign. If you look at how he has fared against Hillary in the last two months, it hasn't been pretty. He's been getting destroyed. He will beat her to the finish line, but he is limping there. And in this fight, his ship has taken some serious blows. He is taking on water.
Obama is getting worse with the blue collar Americans. Not better. We all thought he would lose West Virginia and Kentucky, but nobody expected this level of destruction in those races in the key General Election demographics. Some pretty prominent Democratic strategists said on Fox and Friends this morning that it could be a struggle for Obama to get those people back. Obama is backtracking on 90% of the things he was saying just 4 months ago. He's wearing a flag pin (wearing the flag pin after telling America that he didn't need to wear a flag pin to show his Patriotism may seem a bit disingenuous) , he's changing his stance on foreign policy (an issue he said he welcomed debate with McCain on), he'll alter his position on Iraq as far as an immediate pullout before long, I'm willing to bet. According to Karl Rove, the latest polls are for the first time showing McCain leading Obama in the Electoral Map on States that each candidate should win. There are plenty of swing states, too, but Obama is getting beat up worse and worse in the white blue collar vote.
I think his wife is going to become a central issue in the General Election. I don't think she can keep her mouth shut for long.
Obama is in trouble. He's going to have to shift his campaign promises to a mainstream view, try and soften the edges of his primary winning rhetoric and mold it into a more moderated view that can win the hearts of blue collar workers without alienating his base that handed him the election.
To complicate things further, the Democrats are their own worst enemy again. A huge portion will scream racism if Obama isn't the winner and another huge portion are gearing up to scream sexism if Hillary isn't elected. Both feel slighted by the outcome.
Obama is getting worse with the blue collar Americans. Not better. We all thought he would lose West Virginia and Kentucky, but nobody expected this level of destruction in those races in the key General Election demographics. Some pretty prominent Democratic strategists said on Fox and Friends this morning that it could be a struggle for Obama to get those people back. Obama is backtracking on 90% of the things he was saying just 4 months ago. He's wearing a flag pin (wearing the flag pin after telling America that he didn't need to wear a flag pin to show his Patriotism may seem a bit disingenuous) , he's changing his stance on foreign policy (an issue he said he welcomed debate with McCain on), he'll alter his position on Iraq as far as an immediate pullout before long, I'm willing to bet. According to Karl Rove, the latest polls are for the first time showing McCain leading Obama in the Electoral Map on States that each candidate should win. There are plenty of swing states, too, but Obama is getting beat up worse and worse in the white blue collar vote.
I think his wife is going to become a central issue in the General Election. I don't think she can keep her mouth shut for long.
Obama is in trouble. He's going to have to shift his campaign promises to a mainstream view, try and soften the edges of his primary winning rhetoric and mold it into a more moderated view that can win the hearts of blue collar workers without alienating his base that handed him the election.
To complicate things further, the Democrats are their own worst enemy again. A huge portion will scream racism if Obama isn't the winner and another huge portion are gearing up to scream sexism if Hillary isn't elected. Both feel slighted by the outcome.
Last edited by a moderator:
Voltaire
Footballguy
You do realize McCain hasn't been seriously campaigned against by anyone yet, right? Obama has pretty much went through general election scrutiny already. If McCain is only just a little bit ahead in the Electoral Map as you claim (and I agree) then he is totally ####ed.
adonis
Footballguy
These states are just a few of many he's campaigned in, and he has won the majority of states. In fact, he's won 33 of the 50 states, and when winning those states, according to proportional delegate splitting, he has more delegates than Hillary does. He now has more superdelegates than Hillary does.Let's not let these last few states to vote get blown out of proportion. Obama has won more states than Hillary has, he has more delegates than she does, he has more super delegates than she does, she's running her campaign at a near $20 million deficit, she started this campaign season the odds on favorite to win it benefiting from lingering goodwill created by her husband, and she has one of the best names in politics.This primary season has been over many months, but people want to look only to the last month or so, and only a few states in that last month, to look for signs of trouble for Obama. True, he's had some bad showings, but overall, from all the democratic primaries combined as well as caucuses, he's had a very strong showing against arguably one of the best nominees to run and likely not get the nomination of the party.Clinton and Obama are both formidable candidates, and choosing between them, no matter at what point in the primary season, is not an easy task. When you have two very well qualified people running, maybe one appeals more to people in one state than to another...but that doesn't mean the other candidate lacks appeal at all. The purpose of the primary is to balance out all states, and find the person most capable of competing across the nation. Obama has a grassroots network in place that will mobilize voters better than any candidate in history. His fundraising prowess has already been setting records, and will long into the general election. He's won more states, more delegates, overcome a huge superdelegate deficit, and he's on his way to being the nominee.You can narrow your focus to include only the last month, and only look at the states he's lost, and conclude he's in trouble, but if you look at the entire primary season, all of the states, and the quality of BOTH candidates, a different picture emerges of Obama being the best choice across the nation, among two very good candidates for the democratic party.
Voltaire
Footballguy
More on the Electoral Map. This is my favorite political site ever.. It shows Obama at about 269 and McCain at about 268. And this doesn't factor in the votes that Barr will probably take away from McCain or the Hillary supporters who will cool down over the summer.
If you would have told me last summer that Obama would be in a virtual dead heat with the R nominee with those other factors pointing to a boost in his numbers over the next few months, I would have done back flips.
If you would have told me last summer that Obama would be in a virtual dead heat with the R nominee with those other factors pointing to a boost in his numbers over the next few months, I would have done back flips.
Do you feel that Obama's image is taking a beating in key demographics that will be tough to recover from? Exit polling from white blue collar voters show character issues with the candidate, which are historically more difficult to overcome than policy differences.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
This seems to disagree with the latest results from Zogby today. It is showing Obama starting to open up over McCain.Latest Zogby Results
I also agree that Barr is going to steal votes from McCain, the base is not as strong as people are making it out to be.
Obama has a lot of new voters that he signed up and they will get out to vote for him again in the General. Obama is leading in independent voters right now.
adonis
Footballguy
Before I answer much about it, can you link to what character issues people have with Obama? I've been out of the news loop for a bit.
ffldrew
Footballguy
Sorry to say this - but the white blue collar worker in America is a dying demographic. We are a nation of educated information, scientific, service workers with citizens from all over the world and there Obama is destroying the competition. I'd rather have the growing demographic - I haven't seen the narrative that Hillary or McCain are a failure in this group. It is lazy of the media who are looking for blemishes in Obama and they are clinging
to this story for now.
adonis
Footballguy
I've looked up a few things and it doesn't seem to be much different than it's been in the past, although it's a little bit stronger about whites voting for clinton (1 in 5) in Ky whereas race didn't play much of a factor in Oregon, and many clinton spporters said they'd vote for McCain before Obama.My grand unifying theory:
It's still early in the campaign process, and we're still in a democratic primary that pits two quality democrats against each other, with the goal of each candidate being to get more votes than the other person by showing themselves to be the best choice, and the other person to be a poor choice. Clinton has been very effective at doing this, as it plays into her type of politics very well. She's really hit Obama, and hard. The effects are still being seen at the polls, as democrats are split. Obama supporters, according to his type of politics, are very likely to support Clinton if she's the nominee, but the reverse isn't true.
This largely reflects the presented personalities of the candidates during the primary. However, the general election is a different beast. The democratic party will no longer be turned on itself. No more will party leaders be torn about who to support, no more will Clinton be bashing Obama, but there will be a unified front. Clinton will support Obama, and she has stated she will work hard and campaign for Obama if he's the nomineed. Imagine the positive effects of her campaigning for him in the states she's won, appealing to those who voted for her, to vote for him in the general election because while they have differences, as democrats, they have far more in common than with McCain.
The change in public attitude towards obama will certainly shift. With all democrats using their talk and power to get him elected, combined with his political skills, his fundraising abilities, his grassroots organization, and McCain's weaknesses of being similar to Bush, making mistakes, ties to lobbyists in his campaign, trouble raising funds, etc...this will all start to turn in Obama's favor.
Sure, there will be ads run about Rev Wright, but apparently he FINALLY got the memo and has decided to stay out of public life for a time at least. That will help. It being older news will also help, as I'm doubtful many americans haven't heard this story, republican or democrat.
So, my point is that it's a different beast, the general election. Public image will change, democratic party will be unified, leaders will point their criticism at McCain, Hillary will support Obama's run, she'll likely get sent to the states he did poorly in that she did well, in order to convince them to vote for him in the general election.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
My thoughts exactly. Make those arguments to the Supers, not on the stump tainting your base for Obama in November potentially.I'm not so sure. She's going around places telling everyone she's leading in popular votes-counting MI and FL as-is and ignoring the 4 caucus states where vote numbers weren't released. I think on some level she still believes she can win this thing. I think deceiving people on her supposed lead in popular votes does nothing but stir the anger of her supporters who feel the nomination was "stolen" from her. I'm ok with her staying in the race and making her electibility arguements (she may even be more electable than Obama), but stop with the "I have more votes than him" nonsense.Clinton is going through the motions at this point. And actually, probably to the benefit of Obama in November since she is playing nice right now. You make these last 7 or so contests feel like they are important. Continue to pump up Democratic registration numbers and general interest.
As long as Clinton and Obama play nice, the next few weeks are nothing but good news for Dems.
Otherwise, I'd agree that playing it out to the end helps Obama. He's going to be able to say that he ran against a Clinton in times of economic troubles, took her best shots, and came out the winner. In that sense, I think it does make him a stronger candidate.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
How embarrassing.Did she really use that tonight?Annoying Hillary soundbite of the night:"It's often said, as __whatever state she happens to win___goes, so goes the nation."
Similar threads
