*** Official Brees-Rivers offseason thread *** (1 Viewer)

[dickey moe]

The Chargers will struggle without him as well, at least out of the gate in 2006. If Rivers falters, they can always fall back on AJ Feeley

RW

Not sure about that my friend. I'm obviously biased, but all we ever hear is how QBs need a year or so to learn before they can jump into the fire and have a shot at succeeding early.Rivers has had two years to work with the Bolts and learn their system/playbook in and out. He's surrounded by a HOF RB and the best TE in the game. McCardell and Eric Parker aren't Pro Bowlers, but they're very underrated route runners with good hands - they'll always be where they're supposed to be and they will turn quite a few incompleteions into catches.

Everything is in place for Rivers to step right in and not miss a beat. Of course there will be growing pains and the occassional boneheaded play, but he's in an offense that doesn't require the QB to be a playmaker.

Again, I'm very biased, but I think the Chargers will never look back. Rivers brings far more to the table physically (arm strength, size), and yet his character and work ethic is supposedly his strongest attribute.

TommyG, I agree with your homer optimism, and I am a quiet Bolt fan myself. But, There are only so many Bradys and Roethlisbergers that buck the trend for an NFL QB's learning curve. Also with so many good teams in the AFC, and especially the very strong AFC West, 1 loss can be the difference in missing a play-off birth. With that said, if they miss the play-offs in 2006, you can bank on a new coach, staff, and system for 2007. History suggests this will be a set back for 2008, at least early? Maybe not? Regardless my whole opinion on the Brees/Rivers matter is Brees is proven, Rivers is not. To let a Pro Bowl QB (and a respected Team Leader) walk WITHOUT any compensation (tag) is deplorable. And then the what if? What if Rivers is injured in Pre-season? Ouch. Nick Canepa wrote a piece today in the SDUT, and it pretty much sums up my personal opinion to a T... LINK

RW

Very . You know what you have with Brees -- a guy who can win you games. He'll recover from this injury. I think the Chargers are making a big mistake if they let this guy go.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

To let a Pro Bowl QB (and a respected Team Leader) walk WITHOUT any compensation (tag) is deplorable.

You would have tagged him, guaranteeing him $9.6 million this year? I don't think he was worth that price last year when he was healthy. What are the odds that he'd be worth it this year? Couldn't the $9.6 million be better spent on OL, FS, and SS -- especially since the team is so high on Rivers?If the Chargers tagged Brees, they would not be able to trade him. The $9.6M for one year he'd be guaranteed under the tag is a much better deal for Brees than he'd be able to get on the open market, so he'd refuse to relinquish the $9..6M to sign a long-term deal (which would be a prerequisite to any trade).

It would have been nice to get something for Brees, but I don't see how that would have been possible given that he's not under contract. They could have signed him to a long-term deal before the 2005 season, but in hindsight (given his relatively poor performance in 2006 compared to 2005 along with his career-threatening injury), they are lucky they didn't, IMO. I hope Brees fully recovers and eventually returns to the playoffs and to the Pro Bowl, but history suggests that it's no sure thing.

 

[R.White]

Hey Maurile,

Yeah, I would tag him. I would spend the 9M just to have the insurance. My team is on the cusp, and an inexperienced youngster may not provide immediate success. AND, there are enough teams this year that will give up a ton to acquire a young Pro-Bowl (Franchise) QB. I would take the risk in a heartbeat, especially with someone elses (Spanos) money. The other consideration, that shouldn't be overlooked, is the locker room presence. Brees has the support of the key players. It's a win or else season basically, before they blow up the management, and start over. I want Brees, at least for 1 more year. If he lands in Oakland (very possible), it could be a double whammy I still hate the idea of getting nothing from such a high calibur, proven player (while there is a demand). Even if his injury is more severe than they are letting on, now is the time to get something for him, while it's all still a mystery. The timing is perfect. I'd at a minimum, tag and trade him. Someone (jets?) will pay the price. AJ Smith's ego needs an adjustment. He's done well so far, but this will come back to haunt him, IMHO.

RW

 

[BoltBacker]

It's a win or else season basically, before they blow up the management, and start over.

Completely disagree with this. It was only a few short seasons ago when SD was stuck in the cellar for nearly a decade.I do agree about losing Brees in the locker room however. That will be a blow. Class guy. I wish him luck and hope he lands in a good situation like MIA.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

My team is on the cusp, and an inexperienced youngster may not provide immediate success.

It's true that going with Rivers is a risk. But going with an injured Brees would also be a risk. I'd like to keep Brees for another year, but $9.6M is too much, IMO. They can get better value using that money at positions of greater need.

AND, there are enough teams this year that will give up a ton to acquire a young Pro-Bowl (Franchise) QB.

I don't think any teams would give up anything to aquire him under a one-year $9.6M agreement. We'll see how much he eventually signs for, but I'm pretty confident it won't average out to $9.6M/year.

The other consideration, that shouldn't be overlooked, is the locker room presence. Brees has the support of the key players.

True, the whole team loves Brees. From what I can gather, they all love Rivers as well. But Brees has been one of the team leaders on offense for the past two seasons, and the Chargers are losing that.

It's a win or else season basically, before they blow up the management coaching staff, and start over.

Fixed. AJ Smith's job is absolutely safe. Schottenheimer's may be in jeopardy if the team doesn't win a playoff game this year.

I still hate the idea of getting nothing from such a high calibur, proven player (while there is a demand). Even if his injury is more severe than they are letting on, now is the time to get something for him, while it's all still a mystery.

But how can they get something for him? They'd get nothing for him by franchising him. They'd have to sign him to a reasonable long-term deal in order for him to be tradable. They made him an offer and he rejected it.

I'd at a minimum, tag and trade him. Someone (jets?) will pay the price.

Let's see if the Jets offer him $9.6M per year now that he's on the open market. If they don't, you can be sure that they wouldn't have sacrified $9.6M plus a draft pick to get him.

 

[cstu]

The Chargers will struggle without him as well, at least out of the gate in 2006. If Rivers falters, they can always fall back on AJ Feeley

RW

Not sure about that my friend. I'm obviously biased, but all we ever hear is how QBs need a year or so to learn before they can jump into the fire and have a shot at succeeding early.Rivers has had two years to work with the Bolts and learn their system/playbook in and out. He's surrounded by a HOF RB and the best TE in the game. McCardell and Eric Parker aren't Pro Bowlers, but they're very underrated route runners with good hands - they'll always be where they're supposed to be and they will turn quite a few incompleteions into catches.

Everything is in place for Rivers to step right in and not miss a beat. Of course there will be growing pains and the occassional boneheaded play, but he's in an offense that doesn't require the QB to be a playmaker.

Again, I'm very biased, but I think the Chargers will never look back. Rivers brings far more to the table physically (arm strength, size), and yet his character and work ethic is supposedly his strongest attribute.

TommyG, I agree with your homer optimism, and I am a quiet Bolt fan myself. But, There are only so many Bradys and Roethlisbergers that buck the trend for an NFL QB's learning curve. Also with so many good teams in the AFC, and especially the very strong AFC West, 1 loss can be the difference in missing a play-off birth. With that said, if they miss the play-offs in 2006, you can bank on a new coach, staff, and system for 2007. History suggests this will be a set back for 2008, at least early? Maybe not? Regardless my whole opinion on the Brees/Rivers matter is Brees is proven, Rivers is not. To let a Pro Bowl QB (and a respected Team Leader) walk WITHOUT any compensation (tag) is deplorable. And then the what if? What if Rivers is injured in Pre-season? Ouch. Nick Canepa wrote a piece today in the SDUT, and it pretty much sums up my personal opinion to a T... LINK

RW

Recent history has shown that QB's who have been given a year or two on the bench and then given the job over a veteran QB, they do well. Brady and Culpepper both had good seasons their first year starting and with the Chargers' weapons I see no reason why Rivers can't do the same.

 

[cstu]

To let a Pro Bowl QB (and a respected Team Leader) walk WITHOUT any compensation (tag) is deplorable.

You would have tagged him, guaranteeing him $9.6 million this year? I don't think he was worth that price last year when he was healthy. What are the odds that he'd be worth it this year? Couldn't the $9.6 million be better spent on OL, FS, and SS -- especially since the team is so high on Rivers?If the Chargers tagged Brees, they would not be able to trade him. The $9.6M for one year he'd be guaranteed under the tag is a much better deal for Brees than he'd be able to get on the open market, so he'd refuse to relinquish the $9..6M to sign a long-term deal (which would be a prerequisite to any trade).

It would have been nice to get something for Brees, but I don't see how that would have been possible given that he's not under contract. They could have signed him to a long-term deal before the 2005 season, but in hindsight (given his relatively poor performance in 2006 compared to 2005 along with his career-threatening injury), they are lucky they didn't, IMO. I hope Brees fully recovers and eventually returns to the playoffs and to the Pro Bowl, but history suggests that it's no sure thing.

Here's what the Chargers could do if they don't sign Brees:Sign one SS of Archuleta, McCree, Hope (if he switches to SS), Chavous and Tank Williams.

Sign one FS of Demps, Hope, Bashir and Shulters (not as important as SS, but would be nice to have depth and someone to start over Jue).

Sign C Bentley or Mawae.

Sign RT Fabini.

Getting those guys would allow the team to draft a LT and a play-making WR.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Sign C Bentley or Mawae.

If the Chargers sign Bentley, I will be like: reaction to good news.

 

[Banger]

I think you've seen the best the Chargers can do with Brees. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

 

[cstu]

Sign C Bentley or Mawae.

If the Chargers sign Bentley, I will be like: reaction to good news.

You and me both. I read that he's only looking for around $11.5M guaranteed, similar to what Wahle got. If that's the case, they better have him locked up day one of FA.

 

[cstu]

I think you've seen the best the Chargers can do with Brees. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

I agree and have said it all along. It isn't easy either since he's a great guy, tough competitor and popular with the other players - not least of which is LT. Unfortunately, he didn't do what he needed to do and that is get the team some playoff wins. The loss at home last year against the Jets when he couldn't complete a pass over 10 yards sealed his fate with me and made me even more ready for Rivers. He got another chance last year but failed to come up with wins in close games and missed the playoffs.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think you've seen the best the Chargers can do with Brees. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

I agree and have said it all along. It isn't easy either since he's a great guy, tough competitor and popular with the other players - not least of which is LT. Unfortunately, he didn't do what he needed to do and that is get the team some playoff wins. The loss at home last year against the Jets when he couldn't complete a pass over 10 yards sealed his fate with me and made me even more ready for Rivers. He got another chance last year but failed to come up with wins in close games and missed the playoffs.

He lost my support in the Jets game as well. I was sitting up top for the playoff game and noticed the safetys creeping up closer and closer and closer with each play. By the 4th, I swear they were 10 yeads from the LOS and moving forward at the snap.

It's amazing that LT and Gates have been able to put up their numbers without any deep passing threat at all. I hope that Marty and Co. allow Rivers to stretch the field more next season - even if his completion rate is abnormally low I think that the threat of going over the top will pay dividends with the running game and underneath with Gates.

Nothing but love for Brees, he gave his heart and soul. But I'm 100% convinced that his standing as an NFL QB has been enhanced by his surrounding weapons, as opposed to it being the other way around (him making Gates and McCardell better players).

 

[cstu]

Rivers, Senior Bowl Highlights

Good plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers01.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers02.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers03.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers05.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers06.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers09.mpg

Poor plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers04.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers07.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers08.mpg

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Interesting article today in the SD Union-Tribune about a tennis player with a similar injury, also operated on by Dr. Andrews. It's been 17 months and she is at about 90 percent.

Link.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think you've seen the best the Chargers can do with Brees. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

I think this is bunk. Schotty had Bernie Kosar who never was a world beater at QB...he didn't throw a lot of long passes...even in Miami at college he was basically efficient. What the Chargers need is someone that can deliver the ball to Gates under 30 yds down the field. (Check)

They need someone who can get the ball to the WR they have on the team currently...most of which are not speed freaks. (Check)

They need a QB who doesn't turn the ball over and is probably a 2 to 1 ratio of TD to Int. (Check for the past 2 seasons)

They need an efficient QB who doesn't mind handing the ball off to the #1 RB in the league and can throw a touch pass for screens and ensure that LT will see the ball 25+ times a game. (Check)

The only drawback to Brees was the injury. If he was 100% entering the off season you guys would be all over the Cheargers if they didn't sign him. In fact they probably would have IMO.

The likelihood of a Rivers or any QB that has not taken live game snaps to go out and succeed his 1st season as a Charger will not be high. I can't see with Rivers under center how the Chargers will make the playoffs.

Rivers will likely turn the ball over more.

Rivers may or may not have an ego but he may want to zip it around more.

Phillip Rivers is a big gamble IMO.

You can tear me apart for this but I would like to see San Diego succeed and I think Brees is their best option to do so under the Marty regime.

 

[Riffraff]

Interesting article today in the SD Union-Tribune about a tennis player with a similar injury, also operated on by Dr. Andrews. It's been 17 months and she is at about 90 percent.

Link.

Good article. She shredded her labum (one strand left?).

Brees' tear was called minor.

Just looking for the silver lining...

 

[cstu]

I think you've seen the best the Chargers can do with Brees. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

I think this is bunk. Schotty had Bernie Kosar who never was a world beater at QB...he didn't throw a lot of long passes...even in Miami at college he was basically efficient. What the Chargers need is someone that can deliver the ball to Gates under 30 yds down the field. (Check) Rivers is capable of that

They need someone who can get the ball to the WR they have on the team currently...most of which are not speed freaks. (Check) How about when the Chargers get more play-making WR's involved, say Vincent Jackson and possibly Chad Jackson?

They need a QB who doesn't turn the ball over and is probably a 2 to 1 ratio of TD to Int. (Check for the past 2 seasons) Rivers did that in college and may make mistakes at first but he's an accurate QB who hasn't made a lot of mistakes in his career.

They need an efficient QB who doesn't mind handing the ball off to the #1 RB in the league and can throw a touch pass for screens and ensure that LT will see the ball 25+ times a game. (Check) If there's one thing Rivers has shown so far it's the ability to throw screen passes - that's about all he has been given to do so far in the NFL.

The only drawback to Brees was the injury. If he was 100% entering the off season you guys would be all over the Cheargers if they didn't sign him. In fact they probably would have IMO.

The likelihood of a Rivers or any QB that has not taken live game snaps to go out and succeed his 1st season as a Charger will not be high. I can't see with Rivers under center how the Chargers will make the playoffs.

Rivers will likely turn the ball over more.

Rivers may or may not have an ego but he may want to zip it around more.

Phillip Rivers is a big gamble IMO.

You can tear me apart for this but I would like to see San Diego succeed and I think Brees is their best option to do so under the Marty regime.

My points in bold.

 

[Despyzer]

I think Brees is their best option to do so under the Marty regime.

I would tend to agree with this comment, but Brees isn't healthy and there is no way for the Chargers to lock him up. I don't think Rivers will be that big of a drop-off during his first year, and I think he has a great deal more up-side than Brees.As a Charger fan, I'm not panicking.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Rivers, Senior Bowl Highlights

Good plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers01.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers02.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers03.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers05.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers06.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers09.mpg

Poor plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers04.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers07.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers08.mpg

man you love the guy.I hope it works out CSTU.

I think they are making a bad decision though.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think Brees is their best option to do so under the Marty regime.

I would tend to agree with this comment, but Brees isn't healthy and there is no way for the Chargers to lock him up. I don't think Rivers will be that big of a drop-off during his first year, and I think he has a great deal more up-side than Brees.As a Charger fan, I'm not panicking.

I see, so you do not think that Brees will sign for a good chunk of change with another team? As a Miami Dolphins fan I see him doing really well with that team. I think he would easily be the missing piece of the puzzle for the offense.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rivers, Senior Bowl Highlights

Good plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers01.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers02.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers03.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers05.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers06.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers09.mpg

Poor plays.

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers04.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers07.mpg

http://muck.finheaven.com/phins/vide...s/Rivers08.mpg

man you love the guy.I hope it works out CSTU.

I think they are making a bad decision though.

Here's another:Tochdown Willie Quinnie!

 

[Despyzer]

I see, so you do not think that Brees will sign for a good chunk of change with another team? As a Miami Dolphins fan I see him doing really well with that team. I think he would easily be the missing piece of the puzzle for the offense.

No, I think he's almost definitely gone, but I don't think Rivers will produce that great of a dropoff this year and could very well be better than Brees over the long run.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think Brees is their best option to do so under the Marty regime.

I would tend to agree with this comment, but Brees isn't healthy and there is no way for the Chargers to lock him up. I don't think Rivers will be that big of a drop-off during his first year, and I think he has a great deal more up-side than Brees.As a Charger fan, I'm not panicking.

I see, so you do not think that Brees will sign for a good chunk of change with another team? As a Miami Dolphins fan I see him doing really well with that team. I think he would easily be the missing piece of the puzzle for the offense.

You'll be disappointed. Drew is a great system Qb, but he's not a playmaker and can't throw the deep ball. McMichael will love him, Chambers will be frustrated, and Ronnie Brown will see safeties much closer to the LOS than when Ferotte was behind center.I love Drew's heart, his leadership, and his never say die attitude, but he's not a championship QB, IMO.

 

[BoltBacker]

Here's what the Chargers could do if they don't sign Brees:

Sign one SS of Archuleta, McCree, Hope (if he switches to SS), Chavous and Tank Williams.

Sign one FS of Demps, Hope, Bashir and Shulters (not as important as SS, but would be nice to have depth and someone to start over Jue).

Sign C Bentley or Mawae.

Sign RT Fabini.

Getting those guys would allow the team to draft a LT and a play-making WR.

So after all that they'd still end up with a rookie LT to protect Rivers and the same old CB's????Out of all those players the only guys worth throwing much cash at are Bentley and Demps. I don't think the need at safety is as dire as some do. Both Jue and Kiel have played well for stretches but I'll agree they are inconsistent. The interior of the OL has also played well at times. If all they were going to do with all that salary cap $ is improve C and S play then I would have preffered giving Brees one more year being overpaid.

Hope will get overpaid by somebody, superbowl winners always do. McCree could have been had for a bargain not long ago, I'm not so sure at least part of his play can be attributed to the CAR defensive players/coaching around him. I'd have to see another good year before I'd break the bank for him. Tank Williams is a hard-hitting non-covering safety that Marty doesn't utilize all that well, see: Rodney Harrison. Archuleta/Chavous seem streaky to me, and that's what they already have just much cheaper. Shulters might be a good fit if he's at a reasonable price. A good compliment to what they have, but they probably could have afforded him even if they had kept Brees another year. With the new salary cap jump to $102mil very few of those players will be a bargain.

Just my opinion, but I had higher hopes for all that cash.

 

[BoltBacker]

I see, so you do not think that Brees will sign for a good chunk of change with another team? As a Miami Dolphins fan I see him doing really well with that team. I think he would easily be the missing piece of the puzzle for the offense.

You'll be disappointed. Drew is a great system Qb, but he's not a playmaker and can't throw the deep ball. McMichael will love him, Chambers will be frustrated, and Ronnie Brown will see safeties much closer to the LOS than when Ferotte was behind center.I love Drew's heart, his leadership, and his never say die attitude, but he's not a championship QB, IMO.

I have to side with MOP in this instance.MIA was very close to the playoffs last season with the Sage/Gus show at QB last season so if Brees comes in at anything over 75% healthy he'll be a big upgrade. It's a perfect situation for Drew imo, franchise RB, reliable short outlet in McMichael, best WR Brees has ever played with in Chambers and a solid defense that shouldn't put him in too many down-by-17+points situations. Brees could win a round or two of playoff games in MIA imo, which is more than he ever did in SD.

I hope it happens for him.

 

[cstu]

Here's what the Chargers could do if they don't sign Brees:

Sign one SS of Archuleta, McCree, Hope (if he switches to SS), Chavous and Tank Williams.

Sign one FS of Demps, Hope, Bashir and Shulters (not as important as SS, but would be nice to have depth and someone to start over Jue).

Sign C Bentley or Mawae.

Sign RT Fabini.

Getting those guys would allow the team to draft a LT and a play-making WR.

So after all that they'd still end up with a rookie LT to protect Rivers and the same old CB's????Out of all those players the only guys worth throwing much cash at are Bentley and Demps. I don't think the need at safety is as dire as some do. Both Jue and Kiel have played well for stretches but I'll agree they are inconsistent. The interior of the OL has also played well at times. If all they were going to do with all that salary cap $ is improve C and S play then I would have preffered giving Brees one more year being overpaid.

Hope will get overpaid by somebody, superbowl winners always do. McCree could have been had for a bargain not long ago, I'm not so sure at least part of his play can be attributed to the CAR defensive players/coaching around him. I'd have to see another good year before I'd break the bank for him. Tank Williams is a hard-hitting non-covering safety that Marty doesn't utilize all that well, see: Rodney Harrison. Archuleta/Chavous seem streaky to me, and that's what they already have just much cheaper. Shulters might be a good fit if he's at a reasonable price. A good compliment to what they have, but they probably could have afforded him even if they had kept Brees another year. With the new salary cap jump to $102mil very few of those players will be a bargain.

Just my opinion, but I had higher hopes for all that cash.

"Same old CB's"? CB is fine, Jammer and Florence are good enough with some safety help they'll get the job done. At FS Jue is serviceable, but Tiel is terrible (I think you are truly over-estimating him) and shouldn't be anything but a backup. SS has to be the main concern for the Chargers and I do not want it to be a raw rookie like Ko Simpson. ANY of those SS would make a huge difference in the secondary. Add in a FS like Hope or Demp and it will be as good as anyone in the league.As long as Oben is healthy he'll be the starting LT so hopefully they won't have to start a rookie from day one. However, Oben is getting old so the Chargers need a backup so they don't go through what they did last year.

 

[Despyzer]

SS has to be the main concern for the Chargers and I do not want it to be a raw rookie like Ko Simpson.

I don't want Ko anywhere near this franchise. I live in SC and can tell you that he is a complete idiot. He can't speak in complete sentences and rarely even vocalizes coherent thoughts in any manner.

 

[tommyGunZ]

SS has to be the main concern for the Chargers and I do not want it to be a raw rookie like Ko Simpson.

I don't want Ko anywhere near this franchise. I live in SC and can tell you that he is a complete idiot. He can't speak in complete sentences and rarely even vocalizes coherent thoughts in any manner.

Thanks for the insight. Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

SS has to be the main concern for the Chargers and I do not want it to be a raw rookie like Ko Simpson. 

I don't want Ko anywhere near this franchise. I live in SC and can tell you that he is a complete idiot. He can't speak in complete sentences and rarely even vocalizes coherent thoughts in any manner.

Thanks for the insight. Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

He is short.

 

[Despyzer]

Thanks for the insight. Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

I haven't been exposed to Hill as much as Simpson, but I never watched him and thought "he's a difference-making CB and sure-thing first-rounder."But hey, I've certainly been wrong before.

 

[cstu]

Thanks for the insight. Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

I haven't been exposed to Hill as much as Simpson, but I never watched him and thought "he's a difference-making CB and sure-thing first-rounder."But hey, I've certainly been wrong before.

That's what I felt as well - he's a good - and very fast - CB but he's not head and shoulders above the others. There seems to be decent depth at CB so I wouldn't want to take him in the first round with better options on the board. I also feel like the Chargers have spent so many high picks on CB's that they need to continue to develop the guys they have rather than start all over with a rookie. If there was a true difference maker available I'd say go for it, but I don't see Hill as one of those guys.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Thanks for the insight.  Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

I haven't been exposed to Hill as much as Simpson, but I never watched him and thought "he's a difference-making CB and sure-thing first-rounder."But hey, I've certainly been wrong before.

That's what I felt as well - he's a good - and very fast - CB but he's not head and shoulders above the others. There seems to be decent depth at CB so I wouldn't want to take him in the first round with better options on the board. I also feel like the Chargers have spent so many high picks on CB's that they need to continue to develop the guys they have rather than start all over with a rookie. If there was a true difference maker available I'd say go for it, but I don't see Hill as one of those guys.

CSTU , you dont think that get Sam Madison would be a good move? Start Madison and Jammer, Florence is your nikcel. Sammy Davis provides depth. Heck Florence might even start over Jammer.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Im going to disagree with you guys and say Hill is indeed a difference maker and head and shoulders above the other cover corners in this draft. He blew the other CBs away at the Senior Bowl, and his combine numbers were off the charts. If you're worried about his height, he has a 41" vertical to go with elite speed. Most importantly, he just seems way more natural in coverage than any other CB in the draft. Honestly, I think the Chargers should be elated if he falls to them, I like him as much as the CBs that went in the top 10 last year. He can be their nickel corner right away and eventually allow Jammer to move to safety, which is a much better position for him.

If they do decide to go for a starting CB in free agency, then maybe it makes less sense to take him, and instead use the first on an O-lineman.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings. As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

 

[cstu]

Thanks for the insight. Any insight on the clemson corner, Hill?

I haven't been exposed to Hill as much as Simpson, but I never watched him and thought "he's a difference-making CB and sure-thing first-rounder."But hey, I've certainly been wrong before.

That's what I felt as well - he's a good - and very fast - CB but he's not head and shoulders above the others. There seems to be decent depth at CB so I wouldn't want to take him in the first round with better options on the board. I also feel like the Chargers have spent so many high picks on CB's that they need to continue to develop the guys they have rather than start all over with a rookie. If there was a true difference maker available I'd say go for it, but I don't see Hill as one of those guys.

CSTU , you dont think that get Sam Madison would be a good move? Start Madison and Jammer, Florence is your nikcel. Sammy Davis provides depth. Heck Florence might even start over Jammer.

Absolutely. Will A.J. go for it? I doubt it. Madison will get a lot of offers and A.J. hasn't shown any interest in chasing guys. He has been very conservative but with the Chargers a couple defensive backs away from the Super Bowl, he needs to be aggressive and get guys that can contribute in the secondary right now.

 

[cstu]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings. As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move. Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings.  As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move.  Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

 

[cstu]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings. As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move. Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

Rivers led his team to a bowl game all 4 years of college and won 3. His only loss was when he played weeks after breaking a bone in his foot.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings.  As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move.  Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

Rivers led his team to a bowl game all 4 years of college and won 3. His only loss was when he played weeks after breaking a bone in his foot.

Here is his Senior year...looks like you are telling me he was a 4 year starter.Had wins against West Carolina, Tex Tech, UNC, UConn, Clemson, Duke, Virginia, Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl...hmmm, not really blowing my skirt up with this stuff. Lost to Wake Forest that season...OUCH!

I see he went 2-2 against Florida St...he has to get some credit for that. In fact 2-1 if you throw out his Freshman year when he was still wearing diapers. Also went 2-2 in Bowl games against some very so so teams...

This guy has a lot to prove, admit it. San Diego is not going to go 4-12 this season but 8-8 might be very likely...if you think that's a good thing in the hopes of maybe getting better the next season than good luck. The bad part is San Diego is ready to win now. If they got some better CB play...maybe sign Madison, and also sign Drew Brees to a 1 year...5 million contract with lots of incentives to make it a $10 million deal if he accomplishes those incentives...than I think San Diego is probably a major playoff contender.

 

[cstu]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings. As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move. Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

Rivers led his team to a bowl game all 4 years of college and won 3. His only loss was when he played weeks after breaking a bone in his foot.

Here is his Senior year...looks like you are telling me he was a 4 year starter.Had wins against West Carolina, Tex Tech, UNC, UConn, Clemson, Duke, Virginia, Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl...hmmm, not really blowing my skirt up with this stuff. Lost to Wake Forest that season...OUCH!

I see he went 2-2 against Florida St...he has to get some credit for that. In fact 2-1 if you throw out his Freshman year when he was still wearing diapers. Also went 2-2 in Bowl games against some very so so teams...

This guy has a lot to prove, admit it. San Diego is not going to go 4-12 this season but 8-8 might be very likely...if you think that's a good thing in the hopes of maybe getting better the next season than good luck. The bad part is San Diego is ready to win now. If they got some better CB play...maybe sign Madison, and also sign Drew Brees to a 1 year...5 million contract with lots of incentives to make it a $10 million deal if he accomplishes those incentives...than I think San Diego is probably a major playoff contender.

8-8 maybe with the team as it stands right now. Rivers does have a lot to prove, however, all you have to do is look at a team like the Bears who can win without depending on the QB. If the Chargers sign the FA's (SS, FS, maybe CB) they should, then they will have the defense to keep them in games. Handing off to LT and throwing to Gates is probably the easiest QB gig in the NFL and Rivers should be able to handle it.

 

[Pack43]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings.  As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move.  Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

2002 - New Years Day Gator Bowl win over Notre Dame 28-6. Career record was 34-17.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings.  As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move.  Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

2002 - New Years Day Gator Bowl win over Notre Dame 28-6. Career record was 34-17.

Notre Dame was not very good. They were drubbed by Oregon State the year before I think too. A career record of 34-17 equates to basically winning 2/3 or going 8-4 every year and that's barely going to keep you in the top25 if at all. I don't see where that is such a great thing. I broke down who he beat as a Senior and it wasn't impressive...his best year the Wolfpack went 10-3/11-3...something close to that.

I'm sorry guys but I just do not see him grabbing the offense his 1st season and exploding. How many QBs have really done that and even the few that have...where would Rivers stack up to them...seriously. Try not to look thru rose colored glasses. You guys make it seem like anyone could QB the Chargers...it is not that easy. And Shotty is on record as saying that this is not a good move...he's the HEAD "Bleeping" COACH for goodness sake...I think he might have some clue what is best for his offense there in San Diego.

8-8 at best.

 

[Tau837]

MOP, you can question Rivers' NFL potential all you want, but you are showing some serious ignorance about Rivers' college career. You might want to reconsider posting about him if you don't know the facts.

N.C. State Before, With, and After Rivers

5 years prior to Rivers: State was 25-32, including 0-1 in bowl games (lost 1998 Micron PC Bowl). Averaged 25.7 ppg (and only 20.3 ppg the year before Rivers arrived).

4 years with Rivers: State was 34-17, including 3-1 in bowl games (won the 2000 Micron PC Bowl, lost the 2001 Tangerine Bowl, won the 2002 Gator Bowl, won the 2003 Tangerine Bowl). Averaged 32.3 ppg.

2 years since Rivers left: State is 12-11, including 1-0 in bowl games (won the 2006 Meineke Car Care Bowl). Averaged 22.3 ppg.

Winning

MOP bashed Rivers for not winning any big games as a senior.

Consider this information from his senior year: N.C. State scored 44 points at Florida State and lost (2 OT). They scored 38 at Ohio State and lost (3 OT). They scored 21, 24, and 24 in the other 3 losses. Meanwhile, N.C. State's defense only had one game all season in which it allowed less than 20 points (15 vs. Clemson). The defense allowed an average of 29.6 ppg.

Here is how he performed in his 3 biggest games as a senior (@Ohio State, @Florida State, Maryland): 80/120 (67%), 1013 passing yards (8.4 ypa), 8 TDs, 3 ints (and one of those was a blown call by the officials at Ohio State).

I don't see any justification for blaming Rivers for the losses. Unless you think he should have been starting on defense, too.

Also, Rivers was 34-17 (.667) in his career, including 3-1 in bowl games (with 3 Bowl MVP awards). MOP claimed earlier that he was 2-2 in bowl games, which was incorrect.

In addition, he was the MVP of the Senior Bowl, which his team won.

Career

Rivers is arguably the best QB, possibly the best player, in ACC history. Granted, the ACC does not have the same football history & status as some other BCS conferences, but that is still saying something.

Other noteworthy accomplishments, besides what is posted above:

- Started all 51 games played by N.C. State during his career, an NCAA record.

- Graduated 2nd all time in NCAA passing yards.

- 95 passing TDs, 17 rushing TDs, and at least 1 receiving TD. (Can't find complete stats to know if he caught more than one.)

- ACC ROY in 2000 and POY in 2003.

And, while his entire career was great, his senior year was truly amazing. Here are his overall statistics from his senior year (13 games): 348/483 (72.0%), 4491 passing yards (9.3 ypa), 34 passing TDs, 7 interceptions, 170.5 QB rating, 78/109/3 rushing

All this despite the fact that he played for 3 different offensive coordinators in his 4 years and did not play with a strong supporting cast.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP, you can question Rivers' NFL potential all you want, but you are showing some serious ignorance about Rivers' college career. You might want to reconsider posting about him if you don't know the facts.

N.C. State Before, With, and After Rivers

5 years prior to Rivers: State was 25-32, including 0-1 in bowl games (lost 1998 Micron PC Bowl). Averaged 25.7 ppg (and only 20.3 ppg the year before Rivers arrived).

4 years with Rivers: State was 34-17, including 3-1 in bowl games (won the 2000 Micron PC Bowl, lost the 2001 Tangerine Bowl, won the 2002 Gator Bowl, won the 2003 Tangerine Bowl). Averaged 32.3 ppg.

2 years since Rivers left: State is 12-11, including 1-0 in bowl games (won the 2006 Meineke Car Care Bowl). Averaged 22.3 ppg.

Winning

MOP bashed Rivers for not winning any big games as a senior.

Consider this information from his senior year: N.C. State scored 44 points at Florida State and lost (2 OT). They scored 38 at Ohio State and lost (3 OT). They scored 21, 24, and 24 in the other 3 losses. Meanwhile, N.C. State's defense only had one game all season in which it allowed less than 20 points (15 vs. Clemson). The defense allowed an average of 29.6 ppg.

Here is how he performed in his 3 biggest games as a senior (@Ohio State, @Florida State, Maryland): 80/120 (67%), 1013 passing yards (8.4 ypa), 8 TDs, 3 ints (and one of those was a blown call by the officials at Ohio State).

I don't see any justification for blaming Rivers for the losses. Unless you think he should have been starting on defense, too.

Also, Rivers was 34-17 (.667) in his career, including 3-1 in bowl games (with 3 Bowl MVP awards). MOP claimed earlier that he was 2-2 in bowl games, which was incorrect.

In addition, he was the MVP of the Senior Bowl, which his team won.

Career

Rivers is arguably the best QB, possibly the best player, in ACC history. Granted, the ACC does not have the same football history & status as some other BCS conferences, but that is still saying something.

Other noteworthy accomplishments, besides what is posted above:

- Started all 51 games played by N.C. State during his career, an NCAA record.

- Graduated 2nd all time in NCAA passing yards.

- 95 passing TDs, 17 rushing TDs, and at least 1 receiving TD. (Can't find complete stats to know if he caught more than one.)

- ACC ROY in 2000 and POY in 2003.

And, while his entire career was great, his senior year was truly amazing. Here are his overall statistics from his senior year (13 games): 348/483 (72.0%), 4491 passing yards (9.3 ypa), 34 passing TDs, 7 interceptions, 170.5 QB rating, 78/109/3 rushing

All this despite the fact that he played for 3 different offensive coordinators in his 4 years and did not play with a strong supporting cast.

I was waiting for an NC State homer, looks like we have 1 front and center. Let's recap what I wrote and than some of the farce you slapped up here.1. I did mention he went 2-2 against FSU...I said we have to give him credit for that. I even let it slide to 2-1 when you throw out his Freshman year...so 2-1 against FSU...still not good enough for you. OT, 2OT, 3OT...losses are losses. It doesn't say Ohio Sate took double OT to finally put away Miami in the Fiesta Bowl win they had...no, they simply beat Miami and won the BCS game that year. Miami didn't get a special trophy for going to double OT with the Buckeyes.

2. Rivers stats can be looked at a couple of ways. On the 1 hand you have a guy that scored a lot of points and probably drove the length of the field quickly...when that happens the defense will be on the field a lot longer. There are a lot of teams in college that put up tons of points but that doesn't translate to the NFL always. Texas Tech can rack up tons of points but Kliff Kingsbury hasn't done anything in the NFL...is he even still on a roster.

The flipside is they did have a bad defense and thus the offense had to score a lot of points. You can use either arguement effectively.

(At this point, JWB is getting irate. I don't think I said that Rivers was talentless anywhere but I am comparing him to a proven commodity in the San Diego offense, that would be Drew Brees...who did lead a team to the playoffs that hadn't sniffed the playoffs in perhaps a decade?)

3. OK, I was wrong on his Bowl record...I also gave him a better score against FSU at 2-1, rather than 2-2...course you wouldn't see it that way. He won the Tangerine Bowl a couple of time...WHOOPPEEE!!!!!!

Best Player in the ACC ever? Lot of players from Florida State would be ahead of him. Best player to ever wear a uniform in the ACC? EVER? You are throwing out 20+ years of some absolutely unreal Florida State teams with loads and loads and loads of great players. Rivers was able to start for 4 seasons...not many schools allow that and in FLorida State it's almost never. I won't even mention Miami, or Virgina Tech as they just joined.

NC State never went to a BCS game with him under center....NEVER! Get real about what he did there.

And I can post stats that were mind boggling like Andre Ware, David Klingler, Doug Flutie, many of the BYU Quarterbacks...almost none of them ever made an impact in the NFL.

Am I saying that Phillip Rivers is a bust? NO!

Am I saying that he will flop this season? NO!

Am I skeptical that he can do a better job than Drew Brees at this point and time in his NFL career? YES!

Have I made myself perfectly clear? I hope so. And you can can that whole (MOP, you can question Rivers' NFL potential all you want, but you are showing some serious ignorance about Rivers' college career. You might want to reconsider posting about him if you don't know the facts.) That's just silly. It's a free board and I am stating an opinion that isn't what you think...but you are no more right because of that avatar you have just because the guy went to the college you love.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rivers was darn good in college, and Billy Joe Toliver was pretty bad as a pro.

Anything else I can sum up for people?

 

[Tau837]

1. I did mention he went 2-2 against FSU...I said we have to give him credit for that. I even let it slide to 2-1 when you throw out his Freshman year...so 2-1 against FSU...still not good enough for you. OT, 2OT, 3OT...losses are losses. It doesn't say Ohio Sate took double OT to finally put away Miami in the Fiesta Bowl win they had...no, they simply beat Miami and won the BCS game that year. Miami didn't get a special trophy for going to double OT with the Buckeyes. 2. Rivers stats can be looked at a couple of ways. On the 1 hand you have a guy that scored a lot of points and probably drove the length of the field quickly...when that happens the defense will be on the field a lot longer. There are a lot of teams in college that put up tons of points but that doesn't translate to the NFL always. Texas Tech can rack up tons of points but Kliff Kingsbury hasn't done anything in the NFL...is he even still on a roster. The flipside is they did have a bad defense and thus the offense had to score a lot of points. You can use either arguement effectively.(At this point, JWB is getting irate. I don't think I said that Rivers was talentless anywhere but I am comparing him to a proven commodity in the San Diego offense, that would be Drew Brees...who did lead a team to the playoffs that hadn't sniffed the playoffs in perhaps a decade?)3. OK, I was wrong on his Bowl record...I also gave him a better score against FSU at 2-1, rather than 2-2...course you wouldn't see it that way. He won the Tangerine Bowl a couple of time...WHOOPPEEE!!!!!!

Look, I reacted to you bashing Rivers as a college player, not for your discussion of his NFL prospects or for comparing him to Brees. You did a nice job of summarizing things Rivers didn't do while ignoring his substantial accomplishments. You don't think winninig the Tangerine Bowl matters and put him down for not winning more. But taking a team who had made one bowl game in the 5 years before him to 4 straight bowls and winning 3 of them is lifting a program. Few players can do that.I'm not irate, I just think you had a preconceived notion rather than an open mind when you came to the discussion, and you allowed it to influence your posting here.

Best Player in the ACC ever? Lot of players from Florida State would be ahead of him. Best player to ever wear a uniform in the ACC? EVER? You are throwing out 20+ years of some absolutely unreal Florida State teams with loads and loads and loads of great players. Rivers was able to start for 4 seasons...not many schools allow that and in FLorida State it's almost never. I won't even mention Miami, or Virgina Tech as they just joined.

Look at the difference Rivers made in scoring and winning that I posted above. Tell me how many FSU players had that kind of impact. And by the way, FSU has only been in the ACC for 15 years. And don't act like you are conceding anything by not mentioning Miami or Virginia Tech, given they have been in the league for two seasons only.

NC State never went to a BCS game with him under center....NEVER! Get real about what he did there.

So what? No team goes to a BCS game with a QB and little else. If Rivers had a supporting cast like the QBs at FSU, Miami, and Virginia Tech typically have, he would have gone to a BCS game.

Am I saying that Phillip Rivers is a bust? NO!Am I saying that he will flop this season? NO!Am I skeptical that he can do a better job than Drew Brees at this point and time in his NFL career? YES!

I don't disagree that Brees (if healthy) is likely better than Rivers right now. He has 4-5 years as a starting QB to Rivers' 0.That said, when you factor in questions about Brees's health and the economics of keeping him vs. Rivers, that favors going with Rivers.

Have I made myself perfectly clear? I hope so. And you can can that whole (MOP, you can question Rivers' NFL potential all you want, but you are showing some serious ignorance about Rivers' college career. You might want to reconsider posting about him if you don't know the facts.) That's just silly. It's a free board and I am stating an opinion that isn't what you think...but you are no more right because of that avatar you have just because the guy went to the college you love.

Of course it's a free board. That doesn't change the fact that your bashing of Rivers' senior year was ignorant.

 

[Bri]

If the Chargers tagged Brees, they would not be able to trade him. The $9.6M for one year he'd be guaranteed under the tag is a much better deal for Brees than he'd be able to get on the open market, so he'd refuse to relinquish the $9..6M to sign a long-term deal (which would be a prerequisite to any trade).

Abraham hasn't signed his contract and the tag was really only placed so teams can trade for his rights. Chargers could have done this. It's risk/reward if the player gets no takers but I think he would. Also, I think if a deal's done within 14 days of the start of FA they get their tag backFor me, I have to question (like Marty) why AJ wants to take a step back with an inexperienced QB at the helm. Chargers looked good and you only have so long of a window to win the Supe. Everyone that barks at 'the window" gets bit, like the Eagle fans did this year. Some sh happens and it closes.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings.  As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move.  Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

Rivers led his team to a bowl game all 4 years of college and won 3. His only loss was when he played weeks after breaking a bone in his foot.

Here is his Senior year...looks like you are telling me he was a 4 year starter.Had wins against West Carolina, Tex Tech, UNC, UConn, Clemson, Duke, Virginia, Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl...hmmm, not really blowing my skirt up with this stuff. Lost to Wake Forest that season...OUCH!

I see he went 2-2 against Florida St...he has to get some credit for that. In fact 2-1 if you throw out his Freshman year when he was still wearing diapers. Also went 2-2 in Bowl games against some very so so teams...

This guy has a lot to prove, admit it. San Diego is not going to go 4-12 this season but 8-8 might be very likely...if you think that's a good thing in the hopes of maybe getting better the next season than good luck. The bad part is San Diego is ready to win now. If they got some better CB play...maybe sign Madison, and also sign Drew Brees to a 1 year...5 million contract with lots of incentives to make it a $10 million deal if he accomplishes those incentives...than I think San Diego is probably a major playoff contender.

8-8 maybe with the team as it stands right now. Rivers does have a lot to prove, however, all you have to do is look at a team like the Bears who can win without depending on the QB. If the Chargers sign the FA's (SS, FS, maybe CB) they should, then they will have the defense to keep them in games. Handing off to LT and throwing to Gates is probably the easiest QB gig in the NFL and Rivers should be able to handle it.

CSTU the point is not to go 8-8 and compete. The point is to try and win the superbowl. Period. Without a Brees at QB the Chargers chances of winning the Superbowl are considerably less than with Rivers playing. I really think at AJ wants Marty fired, and he wil be at the end of the season.

 

[cstu]

This is a must read and it sums up my feelings. As a Miami fan I will be absolutely thrilled if we sign Brees...even if he is not 100% till June/July...he will love playing in Miami.

CBS Sportsline article

This part is ridiculous:

He believes Rivers can start, and he believes he can win. Only one problem there, folks: Rivers neither played nor won the last two years because there was a better quarterback ahead of him.

Rivers never had a chance to start as a Charger. After Rivers held out in 2004, Brees had a lock on the starting job and ran away with it. In 2005 the Chargers franchised Brees and paid him almost $10 million and no team is going to bench their franchise QB.

It reminds me of something the club did in 1991 when it was tethered to the bottom of the AFC West. It traded away starting quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver the week before the season opener and turned the team over to John Friesz, then in his second year -- all without having the head coach sign off on the move. Predictably, the Chargers stunk, with Friesz struggling in his first season of starting.

Getting rid of BJT was a mistake? Sure Friesz sucked but BJT never threw for more than 8 TD's in a season after he left. As bad as Friesz was, the Chargers made the right decision trading BJT.

I see, so that makes th whole article terrible? I love when people pick a couple of faults and dismiss the whole thing. Brees has had a great command of that offense...look ast the teams they beat on the road last season...New England, Indy, they were playing at a very high level. I'm sorry but Phillip Rivers is unproven. BTW: What was NC State' record under Rivers at QB...did he win a major Bowl game...just asking as I truly do not have that answer.

Rivers led his team to a bowl game all 4 years of college and won 3. His only loss was when he played weeks after breaking a bone in his foot.

Here is his Senior year...looks like you are telling me he was a 4 year starter.Had wins against West Carolina, Tex Tech, UNC, UConn, Clemson, Duke, Virginia, Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl...hmmm, not really blowing my skirt up with this stuff. Lost to Wake Forest that season...OUCH!

I see he went 2-2 against Florida St...he has to get some credit for that. In fact 2-1 if you throw out his Freshman year when he was still wearing diapers. Also went 2-2 in Bowl games against some very so so teams...

This guy has a lot to prove, admit it. San Diego is not going to go 4-12 this season but 8-8 might be very likely...if you think that's a good thing in the hopes of maybe getting better the next season than good luck. The bad part is San Diego is ready to win now. If they got some better CB play...maybe sign Madison, and also sign Drew Brees to a 1 year...5 million contract with lots of incentives to make it a $10 million deal if he accomplishes those incentives...than I think San Diego is probably a major playoff contender.

8-8 maybe with the team as it stands right now. Rivers does have a lot to prove, however, all you have to do is look at a team like the Bears who can win without depending on the QB. If the Chargers sign the FA's (SS, FS, maybe CB) they should, then they will have the defense to keep them in games. Handing off to LT and throwing to Gates is probably the easiest QB gig in the NFL and Rivers should be able to handle it.

CSTU the point is not to go 8-8 and compete. The point is to try and win the superbowl. Period. Without a Brees at QB the Chargers chances of winning the Superbowl are considerably less than with Rivers playing. I really think at AJ wants Marty fired, and he wil be at the end of the season.

That's with the current team and even with a healthy Brees it's maybe a 10-6 team. The bottom line is that while the Chargers have a lot of talent, they still have serious weak spots - notably the secondary and OL. If they don't fix those problems the Super Bowl isn't going to happen no matter who the QB is.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1. I did mention he went 2-2 against FSU...I said we have to give him credit for that.  I even let it slide to 2-1 when you throw out his Freshman year...so 2-1 against FSU...still not good enough for you. OT, 2OT, 3OT...losses are losses. It doesn't say Ohio Sate took double OT to finally put away Miami in the Fiesta Bowl win they had...no, they simply beat Miami and won the BCS game that year. Miami didn't get a special trophy for going to double OT with the Buckeyes.

2. Rivers stats can be looked at a couple of ways. On the 1 hand you have a guy that scored a lot of points and probably drove the length of the field quickly...when that happens the defense will be on the field a lot longer.  There are a lot of teams in college that put up tons of points but that doesn't translate to the NFL always.  Texas Tech can rack up tons of points but Kliff Kingsbury hasn't done anything in the NFL...is he even still on a roster.

The flipside is they did have a bad defense and thus the offense had to score a lot of points. You can use either arguement effectively.

(At this point, JWB is getting irate. I don't think I said that Rivers was talentless anywhere but I am comparing him to a proven commodity in the San Diego offense, that would be Drew Brees...who did lead a team to the playoffs that hadn't sniffed the playoffs in perhaps a decade?)

3. OK, I was wrong on his Bowl record...I also gave him a better score against FSU at 2-1, rather than 2-2...course you wouldn't see it that way.  He won the Tangerine Bowl a couple of time...WHOOPPEEE!!!!!!

Look, I reacted to you bashing Rivers as a college player, not for your discussion of his NFL prospects or for comparing him to Brees. You did a nice job of summarizing things Rivers didn't do while ignoring his substantial accomplishments. You don't think winninig the Tangerine Bowl matters and put him down for not winning more. But taking a team who had made one bowl game in the 5 years before him to 4 straight bowls and winning 3 of them is lifting a program. Few players can do that.I'm not irate, I just think you had a preconceived notion rather than an open mind when you came to the discussion, and you allowed it to influence your posting here.

Best Player in the ACC ever? Lot of players from Florida State would be ahead of him. Best player to ever wear a uniform in the ACC? EVER? You are throwing out 20+ years of some absolutely unreal Florida State teams with loads and loads and loads of great players. Rivers was able to start for 4 seasons...not many schools allow that and in FLorida State it's almost never. I won't even mention Miami, or Virgina Tech as they just joined.

Look at the difference Rivers made in scoring and winning that I posted above. Tell me how many FSU players had that kind of impact. And by the way, FSU has only been in the ACC for 15 years. And don't act like you are conceding anything by not mentioning Miami or Virginia Tech, given they have been in the league for two seasons only.

NC State never went to a BCS game with him under center....NEVER! Get real about what he did there.

So what? No team goes to a BCS game with a QB and little else. If Rivers had a supporting cast like the QBs at FSU, Miami, and Virginia Tech typically have, he would have gone to a BCS game.

Am I saying that Phillip Rivers is a bust? NO!

Am I saying that he will flop this season? NO!

Am I skeptical that he can do a better job than Drew Brees at this point and time in his NFL career?  YES!

I don't disagree that Brees (if healthy) is likely better than Rivers right now. He has 4-5 years as a starting QB to Rivers' 0.That said, when you factor in questions about Brees's health and the economics of keeping him vs. Rivers, that favors going with Rivers.

Have I made myself perfectly clear? I hope so. And you can can that whole (MOP, you can question Rivers' NFL potential all you want, but you are showing some serious ignorance about Rivers' college career.  You might want to reconsider posting about him if you don't know the facts.) That's just silly. It's a free board and I am stating an opinion that isn't what you think...but you are no more right because of that avatar you have just because the guy went to the college you love.

Of course it's a free board. That doesn't change the fact that your bashing of Rivers' senior year was ignorant.

1. I do have an open mind...but I am not a NC State fan as you are. I am going on a lot of history as to what Rivers will likely do this year...this year, not next year or 5 years from now. Of course I am comparing him at this point and time in the NFL...his college career is over, or in the can as they say in Hollywood. It looks fine but he didn't take his team to a BCS game or any Bowl game of real substance. Brady Quinn and not much else took the Irish to the Fiesta Bowl where they were finally exposed for having not much else than him under center at this point. I don't think Rivers did that. You are starting to sound like the Cutler supporters that are hyper over him at Vandy...c'mon now. It's not like I want the guy to fail...I don't.2. Florida State has produced Heisman winners that seemed to make an enormous difference in that school. Charlie Ward ring any bells? He was an outstanding college QB...we will never know what he might have done in the NFL. He took a Heisman and a seat on the bench in the NBA. Was a dual/triple type athlete. How bout Deion Sanders? Think he made a difference for the Noles back in the mid-late 80's? He was a defensive player and went about as high as Rivers in the draft.

3. You wrote: "I don't disagree that Brees (if healthy) is likely better than Rivers right now. He has 4-5 years as a starting QB to Rivers' 0.

That said, when you factor in questions about Brees's health and the economics of keeping him vs. Rivers, that favors going with Rivers."

Can you see how this might be a bit of a contradiction? You say yes Brees is likely better than Rivers right now but than you buy into the San Diego front office pitch about the arm and money...teams have money to spend including the San Diego Chargers.

Let's let it go but I do detest that you think I am ignorant...I know what Rivers did in college but I don't want to always post like a know-it-all. he did great for his school...maybe they should make a movie about him. But we are talking about lining up under center in the NFL with virtually no game experience. How many QB can you say that have done that and been successful? Hardly any...the vast majority tend to fail in the beginning.