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*** Official Brees-Rivers offseason thread *** (1 Viewer)

Is this similar to Pennington's injury?I'm a Jets fan and I'd like to see a deal with Rivers to the Jets But, I think SD would be out of their minds to deal Rivers with Brees rehabbing....Learn from the Jets - Prepare Rivers to be the Starter and be extra cautious with Brees and allow him more than enough time to get to 100%.Maybe they can sign Brees to a deal where he can be easily or more easily traded - Play Rivers to start and get Brees enough playing time to show he's healthy...If you're satisfied with Rivers after seeing him in actual games with some time to develop - you trade Brees next offseason or later in the season.At this point you can make a logical decision based on 1) Brees Health / more value and 2) Rivers game experience.

 
Didn't feel like reading all the replies...

Sure, the Chargers have the cap room to keep both QBs. But come on. You don't draft/trade for a QB in the early early first round, and then sit him on the bench forever. That's such a waste. And I agree that if I were Rivers, I wouldn't be a happy camper. You've already sat for two years, and maybe 3+ at this rate. I mean, what's a guy gotta do?

And this whole "well, they have the cap rooom to keep both" is ridiculous. Why not use this extra cap room to shore up other parts of your team. Don't sink it all into two QBs, when only one can start... such a waste IMO...

 
http://www.theredzone.org/news/showa...ArticleID=3705

Report: Chargers might let Brees test free agency

Chris Mortensen reports the San Diego Chargers are wrestling with the idea of making Drew Brees an unrestrictive free agent perhaps gambling his shoulder surgery would have a chilling effect on interested teams.
I am guessing the Chargers contract offer did not overwhelm the Brees camp.
:no: In fact, I'm almost positive that AJ Smith is low-balling Brees in hopes that he'll want to leave and make the transition to Rivers easier. This way fans will be able to accept that Brees wanted more money than the Chargers were able to pay. It will be very disappointing if the Chargers don't get anything for Brees, but it looks like they are heading that way. The franchise tag is still an option but that will only happen if there's serious interest in Brees and the team knows they can trade him.

 
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Didn't feel like reading all the replies...Sure, the Chargers have the cap room to keep both QBs. But come on. You don't draft/trade for a QB in the early early first round, and then sit him on the bench forever. That's such a waste. And I agree that if I were Rivers, I wouldn't be a happy camper. You've already sat for two years, and maybe 3+ at this rate. I mean, what's a guy gotta do?And this whole "well, they have the cap rooom to keep both" is ridiculous. Why not use this extra cap room to shore up other parts of your team. Don't sink it all into two QBs, when only one can start... such a waste IMO...
I understand where you're coming from, but realize that Rivers isn't taking up much cap room, whereas if he is moved, the team takes a $10M+ cap hit. It is cheaper cap-wise to keep Rivers, regardless of whether Brees is still around or not.
 
http://www.theredzone.org/news/showa...ArticleID=3705

Report: Chargers might let Brees test free agency

Chris Mortensen reports the San Diego Chargers are wrestling with the idea of making Drew Brees an unrestrictive free agent perhaps gambling his shoulder surgery would have a chilling effect on interested teams.
I am guessing the Chargers contract offer did not overwhelm the Brees camp.
:no: In fact, I'm almost positive that AJ Smith is low-balling Brees in hopes that he'll want to leave and make the transition to Rivers easier. This way fans will be able to accept that Brees wanted more money than the Chargers were able to pay. It will be very disappointing if the Chargers don't get anything for Brees, but it looks like they are heading that way. The franchise tag is still an option but that will only happen if there's serious interest in Brees and the team knows they can trade him.
Agreed. I thought that AJ would make such a move and the fact that Brees is injured makes it that much easier. I believe the franchise tag would cost them nearly $10 mill so it's a fairly expensive option (even though they do have the cap space). I think I am probably in the minority here but I think Brees is an average qb that benefits tremendously by playing with two of the best offensive talents in the NFL (Gates/LT). He's definitely gotten better but he is replaceable.

 
http://www.theredzone.org/news/showa...ArticleID=3705

Report: Chargers might let Brees test free agency

Chris Mortensen reports the San Diego Chargers are wrestling with the idea of making Drew Brees an unrestrictive free agent perhaps gambling his shoulder surgery would have a chilling effect on interested teams.
I am guessing the Chargers contract offer did not overwhelm the Brees camp.
:no: In fact, I'm almost positive that AJ Smith is low-balling Brees in hopes that he'll want to leave and make the transition to Rivers easier. This way fans will be able to accept that Brees wanted more money than the Chargers were able to pay. It will be very disappointing if the Chargers don't get anything for Brees, but it looks like they are heading that way. The franchise tag is still an option but that will only happen if there's serious interest in Brees and the team knows they can trade him.
Agreed. I thought that AJ would make such a move and the fact that Brees is injured makes it that much easier. I believe the franchise tag would cost them nearly $10 mill so it's a fairly expensive option (even though they do have the cap space). I think I am probably in the minority here but I think Brees is an average qb that benefits tremendously by playing with two of the best offensive talents in the NFL (Gates/LT). He's definitely gotten better but he is replaceable.
Right. And Rivers would derive equal benefit. Hence their willingness to allow Brees to walk.
 
http://www.theredzone.org/news/showa...ArticleID=3705

Report: Chargers might let Brees test free agency

Chris Mortensen reports the San Diego Chargers are wrestling with the idea of making Drew Brees an unrestrictive free agent perhaps gambling his shoulder surgery would have a chilling effect on interested teams.
I am guessing the Chargers contract offer did not overwhelm the Brees camp.
:no: In fact, I'm almost positive that AJ Smith is low-balling Brees in hopes that he'll want to leave and make the transition to Rivers easier. This way fans will be able to accept that Brees wanted more money than the Chargers were able to pay. It will be very disappointing if the Chargers don't get anything for Brees, but it looks like they are heading that way. The franchise tag is still an option but that will only happen if there's serious interest in Brees and the team knows they can trade him.
Agreed. I thought that AJ would make such a move and the fact that Brees is injured makes it that much easier. I believe the franchise tag would cost them nearly $10 mill so it's a fairly expensive option (even though they do have the cap space). I think I am probably in the minority here but I think Brees is an average qb that benefits tremendously by playing with two of the best offensive talents in the NFL (Gates/LT). He's definitely gotten better but he is replaceable.
Right. And Rivers would derive equal benefit. Hence their willingness to allow Brees to walk.
The problem in SD is that Brees is loved by the fans. Who can blame them either since he lead them to their best record in 25 years. Hell, I've met him a couple times and like him too, but the Chargers seem to be in a situation where they have to let one of their QB's go and the most logical move is to let that guy be Brees. There are issues with team chemistry and a Pro Bowl QB vs. an unknown QB, however these are risks you have to take to build a winning team. The hope that that given the team's weapons on offense that Rivers will be good enough not to screw things up and that the cap money the team has can be used to fill in holes on the OL and secondary.
 
Agreed. I thought that AJ would make such a move and the fact that Brees is injured makes it that much easier. I believe the franchise tag would cost them nearly $10 mill so it's a fairly expensive option (even though they do have the cap space).
Yes, I suspect they'll put the transition tag on him, which would cost the same amount, but it's revocable if they end up not being able to trade him or work out a long-term deal.Ultimately, though, in order to keep Brees, the Chargers will have to be willing to pay him at least as much as some other team offers*. I doubt that will happen since there are other teams that are in a greater need for a QB than the Chargers are.

I like Brees a lot and I hope he has a great career no matter where he ends up**. But right now I think it's more likely than not that he'll end up with another team.

We'll see, though.

----

*This assumes that Brees won't take a substantial discount in order to remain with the Chargers. With Tom Condon as his agent, however, that seems like a safe assumption.

**Unless it's the Raiders.

 
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Didn't feel like reading all the replies...

Sure, the Chargers have the cap room to keep both QBs. But come on. You don't draft/trade for a QB in the early early first round, and then sit him on the bench forever. That's such a waste. And I agree that if I were Rivers, I wouldn't be a happy camper. You've already sat for two years, and maybe 3+ at this rate. I mean, what's a guy gotta do?

And this whole "well, they have the cap rooom to keep both" is ridiculous. Why not use this extra cap room to shore up other parts of your team. Don't sink it all into two QBs, when only one can start... such a waste IMO...
It's been done before - Akili Smith springs to mind. Rivers might just suck - it's hard for any of us to know since we don't get to see him much at all.
 
More on this situation from Clayton:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?...n_john#20060215

Bolts might let Brees test market

posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006

The Chargers' decision to keep quarterback A.J. Feeley, whom they signed to a two-year, $2 million contract, could mean the team won't place the franchise or transition tag on injured quarterback Drew Brees.

After the season, the Chargers informed Brees they wanted to sign him to a long-term contract. They recently made an offer and are waiting to receive a counter offer. Brees, the Chargers' franchise player last season, is a free agent beginning March 3.

The Chargers have until next Thursday to franchise or transition Brees. Because of Brees' shoulder surgery, the Chargers probably won't franchise him because the contract would be guaranteed and he would sign it immediately. The transition tag is less expensive. To franchise Brees, it would cost the Chargers $9.6 million. To transition him, it would cost $8.3 million.

The recovery time for Brees is expected to be four months. It's possible the Chargers will let him hit free agency if he doesn't accept a long-term contract. Letting him go would give Philip Rivers the starting job and make Feeley the backup.

 
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Is that transitional salary right? I thought he gets a 20% increase with the transitional tag too if it's higher than the average of the top 10 players at the position.

 
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Is that transitional salary right? I thought he gets a 20% increase with the transitional tag too if it's higher than the average of the top 10 players at the position.
Yeah, ESPN is stupid. The franchise tag and the transition tag would cost the same amount in this case.
 
Clark Judge said this morning that they'd both be back. He cited his conversations with AJ Smith in which AJ said he loves having great depth at all positions, and he really likes the security he currently has at QB. He pointed out that the Chargers have the cap space to keep both of them around, and they really think very highly of Rivers.

A lot of people will say that AJ is blowing smoke to increase Rivers' trade value. I personally don't think that's the case. I think he'll listen to offers, but it'll take something really special to pry Rivers away.
Is keeping Rivers really better then adding an impact player at another position....
is keeping rivers good at all?? what has he done to earn that high salary? he sucked in the limited time he's seen on the field...he could be another ryan leaf/joey harrington/david klingler for all we know..let him go...trade him,keep brees! this team will not be the same without drew brees..they are on the verge of being a SB contender..why wreck that by putting in an unproven player like Rivers??strike while the iron is hot..his perceived value can't be any higher...lots of teams are interested and would love a young QB who's ready to start..

but SD already has their proven QB in drew brees..

 
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Clark Judge said this morning that they'd both be back. He cited his conversations with AJ Smith in which AJ said he loves having great depth at all positions, and he really likes the security he currently has at QB. He pointed out that the Chargers have the cap space to keep both of them around, and they really think very highly of Rivers.

A lot of people will say that AJ is blowing smoke to increase Rivers' trade value. I personally don't think that's the case. I think he'll listen to offers, but it'll take something really special to pry Rivers away.
Is keeping Rivers really better then adding an impact player at another position....
is keeping rivers good at all?? what has he done to earn that high salary? he sucked in the limited time he's seen on the field...he could be another ryan leaf/joey harrington/david klingler for all we know..let him go...trade him,keep brees! this team will not be the same without drew brees..they are on the verge of being a SB contender..why wreck that by putting in an unproven player like Rivers??strike while the iron is hot..his perceived value can't be any higher...lots of teams are interested and would love a young QB who's ready to start..

but SD already has their proven QB in drew brees..
Brees has an injured shoulder.Rivers is more likely to be another Carson Palmer than Joey Harrington.

The iron is not hot, the Chargers did not make the playoffs this year.

 
Clark Judge said this morning that they'd both be back. He cited his conversations with AJ Smith in which AJ said he loves having great depth at all positions, and he really likes the security he currently has at QB. He pointed out that the Chargers have the cap space to keep both of them around, and they really think very highly of Rivers.

A lot of people will say that AJ is blowing smoke to increase Rivers' trade value. I personally don't think that's the case. I think he'll listen to offers, but it'll take something really special to pry Rivers away.
Is keeping Rivers really better then adding an impact player at another position....
is keeping rivers good at all?? what has he done to earn that high salary? he sucked in the limited time he's seen on the field...he could be another ryan leaf/joey harrington/david klingler for all we know..let him go...trade him,keep brees! this team will not be the same without drew brees..they are on the verge of being a SB contender..why wreck that by putting in an unproven player like Rivers??strike while the iron is hot..his perceived value can't be any higher...lots of teams are interested and would love a young QB who's ready to start..

but SD already has their proven QB in drew brees..
Asking a QB to justify his salary after playing 8 quarters of football is a bit rash, no?
 
Clark Judge said this morning that they'd both be back. He cited his conversations with AJ Smith in which AJ said he loves having great depth at all positions, and he really likes the security he currently has at QB. He pointed out that the Chargers have the cap space to keep both of them around, and they really think very highly of Rivers.

A lot of people will say that AJ is blowing smoke to increase Rivers' trade value. I personally don't think that's the case. I think he'll listen to offers, but it'll take something really special to pry Rivers away.
Is keeping Rivers really better then adding an impact player at another position....
is keeping rivers good at all?? what has he done to earn that high salary? he sucked in the limited time he's seen on the field...he could be another ryan leaf/joey harrington/david klingler for all we know..let him go...trade him,keep brees! this team will not be the same without drew brees..they are on the verge of being a SB contender..why wreck that by putting in an unproven player like Rivers??strike while the iron is hot..his perceived value can't be any higher...lots of teams are interested and would love a young QB who's ready to start..

but SD already has their proven QB in drew brees..
Asking a QB to justify his salary after playing 8 quarters of football is a bit rash, no?
Especially when the salary is very low. I think he counts $2.9M against the cap this year. His actual salary is substantially lower than that (since the cap figure includes a pro-rated portion of his signing bonus). I think his actual salary is something like $700K, but I'd have to look it up to get the exact number.
 
:blackdot: I have both in a keeper league but not sure if I'll protect either. I haven't heard any rumors yet that make me want to keep Rivers, but perhaps if he went to the right team...
 
Clark Judge said this morning that they'd both be back. He cited his conversations with AJ Smith in which AJ said he loves having great depth at all positions, and he really likes the security he currently has at QB. He pointed out that the Chargers have the cap space to keep both of them around, and they really think very highly of Rivers.

A lot of people will say that AJ is blowing smoke to increase Rivers' trade value. I personally don't think that's the case. I think he'll listen to offers, but it'll take something really special to pry Rivers away.
Is keeping Rivers really better then adding an impact player at another position....
is keeping rivers good at all?? what has he done to earn that high salary? he sucked in the limited time he's seen on the field...he could be another ryan leaf/joey harrington/david klingler for all we know..let him go...trade him,keep brees! this team will not be the same without drew brees..they are on the verge of being a SB contender..why wreck that by putting in an unproven player like Rivers??strike while the iron is hot..his perceived value can't be any higher...lots of teams are interested and would love a young QB who's ready to start..

but SD already has their proven QB in drew brees..
Brees has an injured shoulder.Rivers is more likely to be another Carson Palmer than Joey Harrington.

The iron is not hot, the Chargers did not make the playoffs this year.
I agree with your points about Brees & Rivers. I think the previous poster's "iron is hot" reference was to Rivers' market value being hot right now.I agree it is hot, and the reasons for that also make him appealing to the Chargers, especially given Brees' injury.

And as for his performance to date, it is obviously absurd to judge Rivers on 30 pass attempts... and IIRC the majority of those came in a game with lousy weather to boot.

 
Not looking good for Drew in Diego

Options narrow as Chargers rule out tagging Brees

By John Clayton

ESPN.com

The Chargers have all but ruled out the possibility of placing the franchise or transition tag on quarterback Drew Brees, leaving them only two options: signing him to a new contract or letting him hit the free-agent market.

For a month, the Chargers had been considering the transition designation for Brees following his shoulder surgery because it gave them the flexibility of keeping his rights but not offering him a guaranteed contract. But an interpretation from the NFL Management Council late this week scared them out of that concept.

Because Brees had the franchise tag in 2005 and his $8.078 million salary was guaranteed, the league interpreted two things. First, the tender offer for Brees' transition tag would have to be at 120 percent of his 2005 salary instead of the 2006 quarterback transition number of $8.327 million. That means Brees would have to be offered $9.7 million by the Chargers. Second, there can be a case made that because his principle terms of the 2005 franchise tag was guaranteed, Brees' 2006 transition tag could also be considered a guaranteed offer.

The Chargers could ask for a hearing to determine whether that was the case or not, but instead have ruled out giving him the franchise or transition tag.

In the meantime, negotiations between Brees and the Chargers have continued all week. General manager A.J. Smith said he wanted to keep all three of his quarterbacks -- Brees, Philip Rivers and A.J. Feeley. Earlier this week, the Chargers worked out a two-year, $2 million deal for Feeley. Rivers is entering the third year of a six-year contract.

If Brees isn't signed to a new contract by March 3, he will be a free agent.
 
Looking good for Drew in Diego

Of immediate concern, however, is whether to place the franchise tag on quarterback Drew Brees. The league's deadline for that decision is a week from Thursday.

As is his policy, Smith does not comment on ongoing business, but you can be sure this is one of Smith's easier decisions. They will certainly put the franchise tag on Brees for one obvious reason: He is the admired, recognized leader of this football team.

And can we stop with the unsubstantiated talk about trading backup quarterback Philip Rivers?

"I don't know how many times I have to say it, we aren't trading Philip Rivers," Smith said.
 
Looking good for Drew in Diego

Of immediate concern, however, is whether to place the franchise tag on quarterback Drew Brees. The league's deadline for that decision is a week from Thursday.

As is his policy, Smith does not comment on ongoing business, but you can be sure this is one of Smith's easier decisions. They will certainly put the franchise tag on Brees for one obvious reason: He is the admired, recognized leader of this football team. The Chargers will be able to trade him for a draft pick.

And can we stop with the unsubstantiated talk about trading backup quarterback Philip Rivers?

"I don't know how many times I have to say it, we aren't trading Philip Rivers," Smith said.
 
Brees nearing possible point of no return

If no long-term deal, free agency looming

By Kevin Acee

UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

February 18, 2006

Should the impasse between the Chargers and quarterback Drew Brees continue through next week, it appears Brees will be allowed to test the free-agent market and perhaps walk away without the team having any say or receiving any compensation.

Asked what will happen if the Chargers and Brees do not reach an agreement on a long-term contract by Thursday, General Manager A.J. Smith said yesterday, “I think, looking at it, (the team would say) 'Well, it didn't work out.' ”

The impetus behind the Chargers' leaning is their concern about a little-known proviso in the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement that would guarantee Brees' 2006 salary if he were named a transition player.

Smith yesterday ruled out designating Brees as the team's franchise player.

And fearful the Chargers would lose a hearing on the CBA clause in question and that Brees would be guaranteed almost $10 million, Smith also indicated the team will not make Brees its transition player.

“It's a gray area,” Smith said of the clause. “Do you test it? Do you want to go to a hearing? Or do you, because it's so cloudy, pass on it?”

As if to answer, Smith pointed to his reputation for not conducting business without an accepted level of certainty.

“I don't like anything that's cloudy,” he said. “Black and white, that's how I like to operate.”

A hearing before NFL Special Master Stephen Burbank would not take place until after the Thursday deadline for teams to designate franchise or transition players.

Brees, who just finished his fifth NFL season, is to become a free agent March 3. The Chargers and his agent have been talking about a long-term deal for almost two weeks.

Given the Chargers' reluctance to guarantee Brees' contract for 2006, negotiations are evidently dragging because of the team's proposal of an incentive-laden deal.

The franchise and transition tags are ways for teams to stave off a player's pending free agency by offering him a one-year contract. The player is allowed to negotiate with other suitors on a long-term deal, but the original team has the right to match any contract offer. In the case of franchise players, the original team would receive two first-round draft picks if it decided not to match another team's offer.

The one-year contract the original team offers the player must be for the average of the top five (franchise) or top 10 (transition) salaries at the player's position the previous year or 120 percent of his previous year's salary, whichever is higher.

The average salary of the 10 highest-paid quarterbacks in 2005 was $8.3 million.

But because Brees' 2005 salary ($8.08 million) as a franchise player was so high, he would be paid 120 percent of that as a transition player in 2006. That's $9.696 million, a price the Chargers deem too steep to guarantee a quarterback with a shoulder of unknown strength.

Unlike the one-year salary of a franchise player, the one-year salary for a transition player is not usually guaranteed. But a few sentences in the 263-page CBA indicate that Brees' 2006 salary would be guaranteed even as a transition player.

Article XX, Section 14 of the CBA reads in part, “ . . . the Required Tenders of a one year Player Contract for at least 120% of the Franchise Player's or Transition Player's Prior Year Salaries shall in addition to the 120% Salary also include all other terms of the player's Prior Year contract, including any guarantees . . . ”

The Chargers contend the meaning of the section is debatable, but Smith conceded it indicates that in Brees' case the transition and franchise tags are essentially the same.

While the Chargers seemed willing and fiscally able to franchise or transition Brees before his being injured in the season finale, the team now has concerns about Brees' health after he needed surgery last month to repair a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder. Brees is expected to be ready to participate in training camp, but it is not certain when his arm will return to full strength.

Brees made the Pro Bowl after the 2004 season and would have played in the all-star game this year if not for his injury. While replacing him would be difficult, if not immediately impossible, the Chargers are in the enviable position of having a former top-five draft pick as their backup quarterback and a former starter as their No. 3 QB.

Philip Rivers, acquired via trade with the New York Giants in 2004 after being drafted fourth overall, is waiting. And the team just this week signed A.J. Feeley, who has started 10 career games, to a two-year contract.

After checking with a member of the NFL Management Council, a league spokesman confirmed yesterday that Brees' salary as a transition player this year would be guaranteed.

Mark Levin, the NFL Players Association's director of salary cap and agent administration, said the union's position would likely be that Brees' salary would be guaranteed as a transition player.

The franchise/transition question would be moot if the two sides agree on a long-term deal. The Chargers sent Brees' agent, Tom Condon, an initial proposal Feb. 6 and the sides spoke as recently as yesterday.

“I won't comment on that except to say there have been conversations,” Smith said.

Even though Smith referred to Thursday as a deadline, the Chargers and Brees technically would have until the March 3 opening of the free-agency period to come to terms on a long-term deal. (Even that deadline could change, however, if the start of the free-agency period is pushed back to allow the union and management more time to agree on a new CBA.)

If no deal is reached, whenever free agency starts, Brees would hit the market and would almost certainly be lost forever.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...18chargers.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
doesn't appear to have live coverage via chargers.com... any other site have live access to listen to teh press conf?

 
It's official: AJ Smith just said that Drew Brees has rejected the Chargers offer and is now an unrestricted FA.

Of course league rules apply, so I assume Drew has to wait until March 3, but I would guess Drew is free to start negotiating with other teams as of now.

The Phillip Rivers era begins.

 
It's official: AJ Smith just said that Drew Brees has rejected the Chargers offer and is now an unrestricted FA.

Of course league rules apply, so I assume Drew has to wait until March 3, but I would guess Drew is free to start negotiating with other teams as of now.

The Phillip Rivers era begins.
My understanding is that the complete pay package was agreeable with Brees, but the guaranteed part was causing problems. If he goes without anything in return the city and the press will be all over AJ. It's not a good set of circumstances considering the stadium problems they are having.
 
With what was said, was it a situation where SD's "final offer" was rejected... meaning their might be another final offer... Or did Smith say -- we're going to let Brees test the waters?

 
Interesting development. I suppose Brees (Condon) believed the Chargers were not offering enough in guaranteed money, and the Chargers thought Brees was asking for too much. Brees will see what he can get from other teams. I don't know if he'll be able to get more than what the Chargers offered, but he should generate some interest from Detroit, Miami, maybe Minnesota, maybe the Jets.

 
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Phillip Rivers better not suck ###. They already raised my Season Ticket Prices, and now the Bolts Brass is just going to roll the dice on the season. Cmon no 7-11!

 
Here are recent QB's who have torn the labrum on their throwing arm:

Brian Griese (2000) - came back and had a couple more decent years, but was never the same as he was during the 2000 season (19 TD/4 INT in 10 games).

Rich Gannon (2003) - tried coming back, but had to retire in 2004.

Tim Couch (Feb 2004) - trying to make a comeback but hasn't played since 2003.

Kelly Holcomb (2004) -was able to return week 10 of 2004 and has played fairly well for the Browns and Bills since then.

Anthony Wright (May 2004) - missed the entire 2004 season and did not play well in 2005.

Jay Fieldler (2005) - partial tear in week 3, but wasn't able to return last season

Chad Pennington (2004, 2005) - tore rotator cuff as well as his labrum in 2004. Reinjured his arm in 2005 after rushing back 4 months after surgery.

Chris Redman and Giovanni Carmazzi had torn labrums and never played again after surgery.

And everyone's favorite:

Ryan Leaf (1999) - how much his torn labrum had to do with his failure is unknown since he was already on his way to self-destructing, but it's certain that he was never able to improve after the injury.

 
Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.

 
Here are recent QB's who have torn the labrum on their throwing arm:

Brian Griese (2000) - came back and had a couple more decent years, but was never the same as he was during the 2000 season (19 TD/4 INT in 10 games).

Rich Gannon (2003) - tried coming back, but had to retire in 2004.

Tim Couch (Feb 2004) - trying to make a comeback but hasn't played since 2003.

Kelly Holcomb (2004) -was able to return week 10 of 2004 and has played fairly well for the Browns and Bills since then.

Anthony Wright (May 2004) - missed the entire 2004 season and did not play well in 2005.

Jay Fieldler (2005) - partial tear in week 3, but wasn't able to return last season

Chad Pennington (2004, 2005) - tore rotator cuff as well as his labrum in 2004. Reinjured his arm in 2005 after rushing back 4 months after surgery.

Chris Redman and Giovanni Carmazzi had torn labrums and never played again after surgery.

And everyone's favorite:

Ryan Leaf (1999) - how much his torn labrum had to do with his failure is unknown since he was already on his way to self-destructing, but it's certain that he was never able to improve after the injury.
Good info. Gannon had to retire due to a neck injury. Several guys on that list werent all that to begin with and a lot of them only came back recently. Older prominent examples might make this more interesting.

Griese, Couch, Holcomb, Leaf, and Pennington leave us with 5 solid examples. Two have come back with success. Two havent made it back (Couch is apparently still trying). The last one is Pennington. The one thing learned from Pennington is that Brees might not be ready in time to compete for a starting job with another team. With all tissue injuries, the severity of the tear is really important. That looks like the case when looking at only this small sample.

 
Here are recent QB's who have torn the labrum on their throwing arm:

Brian Griese (2000) - came back and had a couple more decent years, but was never the same as he was during the 2000 season (19 TD/4 INT in 10 games).

Rich Gannon (2003) - tried coming back, but had to retire in 2004.

Tim Couch (Feb 2004) - trying to make a comeback but hasn't played since 2003.

Kelly Holcomb (2004) -was able to return week 10 of 2004 and has played fairly well for the Browns and Bills since then.

Anthony Wright (May 2004) - missed the entire 2004 season and did not play well in 2005.

Jay Fieldler (2005) - partial tear in week 3, but wasn't able to return last season

Chad Pennington (2004, 2005) - tore rotator cuff as well as his labrum in 2004. Reinjured his arm in 2005 after rushing back 4 months after surgery.

Chris Redman and Giovanni Carmazzi had torn labrums and never played again after surgery.

And everyone's favorite:

Ryan Leaf (1999) - how much his torn labrum had to do with his failure is unknown since he was already on his way to self-destructing, but it's certain that he was never able to improve after the injury.
:goodposting:
 
According to a Chargers front-office official, the prognosis for San Diego Chargers quarterback Drew Brees' return from his labrum injury in time for next season is not positive.

Link
Here is an interesting snippet from the SDUT (beat writer K.Acee) ....LINK

Feb 19

Orthopedists contacted by the Union-Tribune in recent weeks have said Brees should fully recover – given his youth, excellent physical condition and ability to devote every waking hour to his rehab. The only question, the doctors said, is how long it takes for Brees' arm to return to full strength. It is possible, even likely, he will be full-go by the start of the season. But it could take as long as nine months for him to get there, doctors said.

Brees went on to say....

He said he is four weeks ahead of schedule in his rehabilitation and seemed incredulous that anyone would doubt he will be ready by the start of the season.

“I can start throwing the beginning of May,” he said. “That's three months until the beginning of training camp. You're telling me that with three months of throwing I'm not going to be back? That's eight months from the time I had surgery until the first game. I know I'll be ready.”

Of course if he moves on, and has to learn another system, with different targets, he'll be behind in the process. In any event, the prognosis isn't that bleak. The Chargers will struggle without him as well, at least out of the gate in 2006. If Rivers falters, they can always fall back on AJ Feeley :P

RW

 
The Chargers will struggle without him as well, at least out of the gate in 2006. If Rivers falters, they can always fall back on AJ Feeley :P

RW
Not sure about that my friend. I'm obviously biased, but all we ever hear is how QBs need a year or so to learn before they can jump into the fire and have a shot at succeeding early.Rivers has had two years to work with the Bolts and learn their system/playbook in and out. He's surrounded by a HOF RB and the best TE in the game. McCardell and Eric Parker aren't Pro Bowlers, but they're very underrated route runners with good hands - they'll always be where they're supposed to be and they will turn quite a few incompleteions into catches.

Everything is in place for Rivers to step right in and not miss a beat. Of course there will be growing pains and the occassional boneheaded play, but he's in an offense that doesn't require the QB to be a playmaker.

Again, I'm very biased, but I think the Chargers will never look back. Rivers brings far more to the table physically (arm strength, size), and yet his character and work ethic is supposedly his strongest attribute.

 
Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.
Agreed. That's the key.(Rivers + good OT + good CB + Feely) > (Rivers + injured Brees + Feely)

It all depends on how they use the $.

 
Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.
Agreed. That's the key.(Rivers + good OT + good CB + Feely) > (Rivers + injured Brees + Feely)

It all depends on how they use the $.
Nate Clements + Bentley + Huchinson + Ko Simpson = SUPER BOWL BOUND BABY
 
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Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.
Agreed. That's the key.(Rivers + good OT + good CB + Feely) > (Rivers + injured Brees + Feely)

It all depends on how they use the $.
Nate Clements + Bentley + Huchinson + Ko Simpson = SUPER BOWL BOUND BABY
I WISH Clements would hit the market, but I'm pretty sure he'll get franchised if BUF can't come to terms.
 
Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.
Agreed. That's the key.(Rivers + good OT + good CB + Feely) > (Rivers + injured Brees + Feely)

It all depends on how they use the $.
Nate Clements + Bentley + Huchinson + Ko Simpson = SUPER BOWL BOUND BABY
I don't mind them putting Rivers in as long as they spend that cap money on some O-Linemen.
 
Not signing Brees gives the Chargers an extra $9 million in cap space to bring in some FA offensive linemen and defensive backs. Should be interesting to see how they use it.
Agreed. That's the key.(Rivers + good OT + good CB + Feely) > (Rivers + injured Brees + Feely)

It all depends on how they use the $.
Nate Clements + Bentley + Huchinson + Ko Simpson = SUPER BOWL BOUND BABY
I don't mind them putting Rivers in as long as they spend that cap money on some O-Linemen.
It's true that the Bolts haven't been big players in the FA market the past few seasons. In 04, the Bolts didn't have much cap space to play with b/c they decided to rid themselves of malcontents David Boston and M. Wiley and took huge cap hits. In O5, the Bolts had more cap space but they chose to lock up LT and Gates long term, and had to blow $10MM in cap space franchising Drew.This offseason, the Bolts have all of their top players locked up to long term deals, and only have a few guys to extend. With the decision to not tag Drew, and Drew's subsequent decision to walk, I think you'll see AJ Smith much more active than he's been in recent years.

If the Bolts don't sign at least 2 name FAs, I agree that Charger fans have legit beef. This team should be a playoff team this year if they bring in a couple of key additions and Rivers is able to manage the game.

Very, very exciting time for Charger fans right now. AJ has managed the cap and the roster beautifully the past couple seasons, with Brees being his biggest gamble yet. Add in the fact that if the 2005 draft was held today, Merriman would likely go #1 overall and Luis Castillo would go top 10, and the future is bright in San Diego.

Now if we could just get a freakin' new stadium. :hot:

Edit to add that LT2's extension was signed in '04, not '05 as I state in my post.

 
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The Chargers will struggle without him as well, at least out of the gate in 2006. If Rivers falters, they can always fall back on AJ Feeley :P

RW
Not sure about that my friend. I'm obviously biased, but all we ever hear is how QBs need a year or so to learn before they can jump into the fire and have a shot at succeeding early.Rivers has had two years to work with the Bolts and learn their system/playbook in and out. He's surrounded by a HOF RB and the best TE in the game. McCardell and Eric Parker aren't Pro Bowlers, but they're very underrated route runners with good hands - they'll always be where they're supposed to be and they will turn quite a few incompleteions into catches.

Everything is in place for Rivers to step right in and not miss a beat. Of course there will be growing pains and the occassional boneheaded play, but he's in an offense that doesn't require the QB to be a playmaker.

Again, I'm very biased, but I think the Chargers will never look back. Rivers brings far more to the table physically (arm strength, size), and yet his character and work ethic is supposedly his strongest attribute.
TommyG, I agree with your homer optimism, and I am a quiet Bolt fan myself. But, There are only so many Bradys and Roethlisbergers that buck the trend for an NFL QB's learning curve. Also with so many good teams in the AFC, and especially the very strong AFC West, 1 loss can be the difference in missing a play-off birth. With that said, if they miss the play-offs in 2006, you can bank on a new coach, staff, and system for 2007. History suggests this will be a set back for 2008, at least early? Maybe not? Regardless my whole opinion on the Brees/Rivers matter is Brees is proven, Rivers is not. To let a Pro Bowl QB (and a respected Team Leader) walk WITHOUT any compensation (tag) is deplorable. And then the what if? What if Rivers is injured in Pre-season? Ouch. Nick Canepa wrote a piece today in the SDUT, and it pretty much sums up my personal opinion to a T... LINK

RW

 

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