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Official Captain America: Civil War Thread (With Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

packersfan

packersfan

Footballguy
There was a request for a separate thread for this film so hopefully it's cool to start one up for everyone to talk about the film if they have seen it. This obviously will contain spoilers. 

As I said in the MCU thread I really enjoyed it. I would rank it alongside Winter Solider as my second-favorite Marvel film behind The Avengers. Extremely well done and intelligent story. Did a great job of presenting both sides of the Civil War debate and at the end of the film you could make a strong case that both Cap and Tony were right in their arguments. The ending certainly set things up nicely for everyone being reunited to fight Thanos in Infinity Wars (or whatever the Russos plan to call the next Avengers film).

Tom Holland was fantastic as Spidey. By far the best Spider-Man in my opinion. Chadwick Boseman was also terrific as Black Panther. I'm looking forward to both of their solo films.

As always stay for the credits scenes. The first features Bucky being put back to sleep by Steve and T'Challa and the second features Spidey.

Really good film. I'm gonna need a second viewing to take it all in. A lot to absorb in one viewing.  . 

 
Another home run by the best in the biz.

Scott Lang/Antman upgrade is ####### bad ### -- and real to the history.

And they properly show off some of Spideys considerable power and youth. 

Tons of goodies throughout. The girl I took already wants to go again, as she wants more time to consider it all.

 
packersfan said:
. The ending certainly set things up nicely for everyone being reunited to fight Thanos in Infinity Wars (or whatever the Russos plan to call the next Avengers film).
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The films have already been named

Avengers: Infinity War Part 1: May 4th 2018

Avengers: Infinity War Part 2 : May 3rd 2019

 
I have to go back and watch Cap 2 again.  They laid out some of the story line of the Starks being killed by Hydra when Cap and Widow visit the bunker with the computerized brain of Zola.

They even mentioned the car crash for Howard Stark's death way back in 1998 when IM1 first came out.  Great job keeping with the long term continuity!

 
NewlyRetired said:
I am sometimes unsure what constitutes an Easter Egg but Cap's line of "I could do this all day" when getting back up after taking a beating from Tony harkens all the way back to Cap 1 before he underwent his change.

After googling, this site lists 26 of them, but again, I don't know what defines an Easter Egg or not

http://www.gamesradar.com/captain-america-civil-war-easter-eggs/
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Great link.

i forgot Falcon had an actual falcon for a sidekick in the comics.  Funny they brought him back as a drone.

 
Loved it. So much was going on in the main airport battle, can't wait to re-watch it. Love the MCU spiderman too. The fight choreography is much better in the Cap movies than in the Avengers movies, and they did it again even with the big cast. I hope the Russo brothers doing the next 2 Avengers installments means the action is more like the Cap movies. 

 
I'm on Team Stark after seeing this movie. Bucky and Cap are bull#### imo. Stark is all alone now with Spidey and possibly Hulk/Thor. The Avengers went from badass to whiny asses. 

 
Mario Kart said:
I'm on Team Stark after seeing this movie. Bucky and Cap are bull#### imo. Stark is all alone now with Spidey and possibly Hulk/Thor. The Avengers went from badass to whiny asses. 
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Doubt we see much of them while divided.

Avengers 3, we'll be told the government sanctioned Avengers and vigilante Avengers have both been operating separately. Then Thanos will happen and they'll all have to come together. 

If you notice, we aren't getting a movie about any of the main Avengers squad before the Infinity War starts. There is no Iron Man 4, Cap 4, etc. Thor 3 will be separate and parallel to Civil War. The movies we get will be new characters:  Dr. Strange, Black Panther, Spidey. Then they bring the gang all back together for IW part one.

The scene where Stark gives Cap back his shield practically writes itself.

Also, however you feel about the specific plot of Civil War and whether Stark or Cap was "right" about Bucky, the general idea of a group of politicians controlling the Avengers is clearly a terrible idea destined to make them less effective and much more susceptible to being manipulated. That's clear and I think the movie wants you to know that Cap is the "correct" one,  even if they show both sides. 

It would be even more clear who is correct if it was more like the Mutant Registration Act in the comics and the main agenda of the law was to erase the privacy of these "enhanced" people and get them on a list--the way they wrote it in Civil War, it's specifically aimed towards the operation of the Avengers and not the existence of all enhanced people in America. Which was a good choice because Stark's side would be even more clearly the "wrong" side in that story.

 
Mario Kart said:
I'm on Team Stark after seeing this movie. Bucky and Cap are bull#### imo. Stark is all alone now with Spidey and possibly Hulk/Thor. The Avengers went from badass to whiny asses. 
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I don't think he really is alone. Cap's note to Tony at the end made it clear that whenever Tony needs him he'll be there and that means when Thanos comes knocking he'll be there for Infinity War. 

I'm also Team Iron Man and it's interesting that Evans also says when interviewed that in real life he agrees with Tony's side if that's the choice he would have to make. Some form of regulation of The Avengers would need to occur. They really have gone unchecked for too long. One of the things I like is how the character arc all these different films have taken with Stark's character. Downey must love playing this role because no matter what the film he really gets a nuanced character role. This script did a great job of taking the guilt he's still feeling after the events of the two Avengers films and building off that and using the event that happens at the start of this film as a driving force for what leads him to agree with the Sokovia Accords. It's really well done.

The airport battle is amazing. That's one of the reasons i want to see the film again. So much is going on in that sequence with all the heroes fighting it's impossible to take it all in on a single viewing. I'll definitely need to watch that again.

I'm gonna keep saying it - Tom Holland is freakin ridiculous as Spider-Man. When James Gunn said he was the best Spidey yet he wasn't kidding. That was some amazing (no pun intended) casting. 

 
What did you guys think of the sokovian bad guy. Not enough to ruin the movie for me, but a little weak imo

How did he know it was bucky if he had not seen the video already

And six more winter soldiers would have been bad ###. 

 
I'm a little unhappy that they unbundled Agents of Shield from the movie.  They did such a fantastic job integrating the two when Winter Soldier was released, and they had been setting up a Powered People Registration Act because of the inhumans. They've made several references to the dangers powered people are posing and the damage they have been causing.  That aspect of the MCU has dropped the ball imo. And where was Nick Fury? 

Spidey was awesome, but they didn't once show him dodging anything.  He kept getting hit.  What happened to the spider sense - or were these opponents simply too fast for it to help him?  Also why did Tony Stark know his identity or think that he could help? Was it responsible of him to bring a teenager into the mix against these battle hardened super veterans who he thinks are helping basically a murderous terrorist? It strains credulity imo. 

T'Challa was very well cast and executed.  Ant Man was also integrated very well.

Not enough character development for the Vision and Scarlet Witch imo.  They just joined Avengers and we never even really got more than a glimpse of their powers in the last Avengers movie.

The only complaint I have about the battles, which were fantastic, is that I would have liked the shots to have been a bit wider and pulled back.  So much was happening so quickly that it was difficult to focus at times.

Liked it, didn't love it.  It had a little too much going on and the writing was not as on point as it could have been imo.  Seemed rushed, which is surprising considering it's the longest movie so far.  Definitely thought Winter Soldier was the better movie by far.

 
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One quibble I did have was when Wanda, Sam, Hawkeye and Lang were captured and taken to the Raft if Wanda's as powerful as she seems to be I'm guessing she could have easily gotten out of her cage and laid waste to that place and gotten everyone out of there. She had no problem dispatching The Vision when she needed to and he's pretty damn powerful himself. The script seemed to have conveniently forgotten that part but I wonder if Honest Trailers will when they get around to this film. :)  

 
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Psychopav said:
I figured it had to do with her being bound.  ? 
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Yeah she was but she's still incredibly powerful. I suppose it can be argued she still isn't in complete command of all her powers and isn't completely aware yet of everything she can do. Maybe everything is in her fingers and just wrapping her up renders her powerless. If so that's a neat trick. Like I said, it was a nitpick. Nothing major.   

 
Psychopav said:
I'm a little unhappy that they unbundled Agents of Shield from the movie.  They did such a fantastic job integrating the two when Winter Soldier was released, and they had been setting up a Powered People Registration Act because of the inhumans. They've made several references to the dangers powered people are posing and the damage they have been causing.  That aspect of the MCU has dropped the ball imo. And where was Nick Fury? 

Spidey was awesome, but they didn't once show him dodging anything.  He kept getting hit.  What happened to the spider sense - or were these opponents simply too fast for it to help him?  Also why did Tony Stark know his identity or think that he could help? Was it responsible of him to bring a teenager into the mix against these battle hardened super veterans who he thinks are helping basically a murderous terrorist? It strains credulity imo. 

T'Challa was very well cast and executed.  Ant Man was also integrated very well.

Not enough character development for the Vision and Scarlet Witch imo.  They just joined Avengers and we never even really got more than a glimpse of their powers in the last Avengers movie.

The only complaint I have about the battles, which were fantastic, is that I would have liked the shots to have been a bit wider and pulled back.  So much was happening so quickly that it was difficult to focus at times.

Liked it, didn't love it.  It had a little too much going on and the writing was not as on point as it could have been imo.  Seemed rushed, which is surprising considering it's the longest movie so far.  Definitely thought Winter Soldier was the better movie by far.
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Was mildly bothered his spider sense wasn't really there, but the combo of fighting peak humans and the fact he's only had his powers 6 months makes me think he hasn't fully harnessed it yet.

 
I thought the main villain was too minor league for the avengers.  The revenge angle is cliche.  I just expect better writing given the high bar they've set.  Also, did they really need another movie centered around the Winter Soldier?

 
Steed said:
I thought the main villain was too minor league for the avengers.  The revenge angle is cliche.  I just expect better writing given the high bar they've set.  Also, did they really need another movie centered around the Winter Soldier?
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After the second Cap film it was pretty clear he was going to be featured prominently in the third one. I think the writers did a good job incorporating him into the events of Civil War to make this both a personal and political struggle for the characters, ultimately that was especially true for Tony. 

I think the big question for Bucky now is what do you do with him going forward since he's lost his arm? He's apparently going to be part of Infinity War which means T'Challa and/or Cap will bring him out of his deep sleep but without his arm what will his role and powers be? 

 
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packersfan said:
After the second Cap film it was pretty clear he was going to be featured prominently in the third one. I think the writers did a good job incorporating him into the events of Civil War to make this both a personal and political struggle for the characters, ultimately that was especially true for Tony. 

I think the big question for Bucky now is what do you do with him going forward since he's lost his arm? He's apparently going to be part of Infinity War which means T'Challa and/or Cap will bring him out of his deep sleep but without his arm what will his role and powers be? 
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He's in Wakanda and they went out of their way a few times to show his arm interacting with Pather's Vibranium ring/suit. My guess is we'll see him with a new Wakandan Vibranium arm at some point. 

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
He's in Wakanda and they went out of their way a few times to show his arm interacting with Pather's Vibranium ring/suit. My guess is we'll see him with a new Wakandan Vibranium arm at some point. 
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I noticed that at least 3 times but did not make the connection to getting a new arm in the future.  I think you are right.

 
Here's a stream of conscious list of stuff I loved about this movie:

The fight scene when Cap finds Bucky in Hungary in the apartment complex, love seeing Cap and Winter Soldier fighting together. 

Intro to Spider-man was so perfect. Loved Stark and Peter together (and Stark is going to be in Spider-man Homecoming). The understated conversation around why Peter is using his abilities to fight crime was really well done. 

Everything about the airport sequence, I feel like it's going to take multiple viewing to really take in all the awesome going on there. On par with the Battle of NY in Avengers.

But GIANT-MAN OMG!!!! "Does anyone on our side have any fantastic abilities they haven't told anyone about?" :lmao:

Also Widow and Hawkeye "fighting". Across the board I thought they did job of handling the conflicting motivations of everyone in that sequence. The contrast to the final fight after Tony finds out the truth about Winter Soldier is obvious and makes that battle all the more intense and personal. 

I also thought they did a good job of foreshadowing that but then backing it away. I remember when they first showed the car sequence from 1991 wondering if that was where they were going, but they let it sit just long enough that when they do the reveal it was an "oh no" moment vs. something that had been beaten into us. 

For a movie with so many characters they did a great job of getting decent moments for all of them while still keeping the story moving forward.

If anything could have been let go to make the movie move a little better early it was the Sharon Carter/Cap relationship stuff, though it paid off later with one of the funnier moments with Sam and Bucky watching them from the car. 

Looking forward to seeing this again 

 
packersfan said:
One quibble I did have was when Wanda, Sam, Hawkeye and Lang were captured and taken to the Raft if Wanda's as powerful as she seems to be I'm guessing she could have easily gotten out of her cage and laid waste to that place and gotten everyone out of there. She had no problem dispatching The Vision when she needed to and he's pretty damn powerful himself. The script seemed to have conveniently forgotten that part but I wonder if Honest Trailers will when they get around to this film. :)  
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My daughter and I talked about this last night after the movie.  I feel like this may have been a scene cut that would have explained this.  Obviously if she did not want to be arrested she would not have been so it would not shock me if there was some story line for the 4 of them giving themselves up to help give Cap some more time.

 
NewlyRetired said:
My daughter and I talked about this last night after the movie.  I feel like this may have been a scene cut that would have explained this.  Obviously if she did not want to be arrested she would not have been so it would not shock me if there was some story line for the 4 of them giving themselves up to help give Cap some more time.
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Yeah that's a good point. Sam did say something about sacrificing so Cap and Bucky could get out of the airport so maybe that's the explanation. But even then they didn't know they were going to the raft. Once they got there I still think Wanda has so much power she could've gotten them out unless just wrapping her up renders her powerless? Again, if so neat trick. 

Also the special effect of young Tony Stark was spectacular. That really did look like a 20-something Robert Downey. That was amazing effects work. It looked like they found the 20-year-old Downey and cast him in the scene. 

 
I was thinking the same thing about young Stark.  It was as if they lifted him straight out of Less Than Zero or Johnny Be Good.  Very well done.

the Stan Lee gag was hilarious too

 
Steed said:
I was thinking the same thing about young Stark.  It was as if they lifted him straight out of Less Than Zero or Johnny Be Good.  Very well done.

the Stan Lee gag was hilarious too
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Cheadle's quips were great too. Hopefully we're not done with War Machine given his situation at the end of Civil War. Cheadle's too great of an actor to lose. 

 
packersfan said:
Also the special effect of young Tony Stark was spectacular. That really did look like a 20-something Robert Downey. That was amazing effects work. It looked like they found the 20-year-old Downey and cast him in the scene. 
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They did something similar way back in XMen 3 to make Charles and Eric look much younger in a flash back scene when they go to meet Jean.  The technology has improved though over time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz8DfAv9kZ4

 
Harry Manback said:
Was mildly bothered his spider sense wasn't really there, but the combo of fighting peak humans and the fact he's only had his powers 6 months makes me think he hasn't fully harnessed it yet.
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I can't recall what was thrown at Spider but he was looking forward when the object was coming from behind and he acknowledged it and moved out of the way. He can't dodge everything but the Spidey sense was shown in its infancy.

 
What was the significance of the spider-man digital logo in the after credits scene?  A couple of people gasped in happiness when he showed it on the ceiling but I did not understand the significance.

 
Steed said:
I thought the main villain was too minor league for the avengers.  The revenge angle is cliche.  I just expect better writing given the high bar they've set.  Also, did they really need another movie centered around the Winter Soldier?
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He wasn't "the main villain", the Avengers themselves were. He was just one regular man who knew just enough to shift the foundations enough that the rest of their own personal baggage did the rest.

 
NewlyRetired said:
What was the significance of the spider-man digital logo in the after credits scene?  A couple of people gasped in happiness when he showed it on the ceiling but I did not understand the significance.
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In the old school comics he had a little symbol on his belt that projected his symbol as a flashlight/look at me thing:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/square_small/0/40/1553155-amazing_spiderman_148_p13.jpg

Neat little easter egg for the old school comic readers, don't think he uses it much current days.

 
Agree with Pav. I was curious why stark knew spideys identity and how easy it was for ant man to be tracked down. 

 
AcerFC said:
Agree with Pav. I was curious why stark knew spideys identity and how easy it was for ant man to be tracked down. 
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Well Pym had connections to the government so probably not that hard to track him down, and through him the new Ant-Man. Pym had no love for the Starks as they mention,  wouldn't have been tough to recruit a guy who idolizes Cap.

With Spidey,  good question. Someone had put video of him on social media or youtube...maybe not hard to do a facial recognition thing if you've got Stark's resources? He'd obviously known about Parker for a while and had him in his back pocket.

Also they wrote it so the "recruitment" scene could easily be swapped out of the script if they didn't get a deal done with Sony for Spiderman. That's why it's kind of sudden.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
He wasn't "the main villain", the Avengers themselves were. He was just one regular man who knew just enough to shift the foundations enough that the rest of their own personal baggage did the rest.
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Yeah and the Cap/Iron Man rift had been was set up in the first Avengers film. Joss Whedon really put a lot of stuff in place that eventually culminated here.

 
AcerFC said:
Agree with Pav. I was curious why stark knew spideys identity and how easy it was for ant man to be tracked down. 
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Didn't Ant-Man end with that riff on how the Avengers tracked down AntMan?   Remember AntMan's Hispanic buddy doing the "my friend met a girl in a bar who met a guy....etc etc"

 
packersfan said:
Yeah and the Cap/Iron Man rift had been was set up in the first Avengers film. Joss Whedon really put a lot of stuff in place that eventually culminated here.
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Was expanded upon in Avengers 2 as well. Stark starts the movie snarky that Cap is the leader even though he pays for everything and designs everything. Then it comes to a head in the firewood chopping scene. It's supposed to be kinda funny but you can feel it building. 

And ironically the plot of that movie is also that Stark attempts to make a huge unilateral decision alone for the good of everybody out of fear and guilt. His issues and the way he tries to solve them have been built up nicely over the series. 

Whereas Cap is a simpler, more idealistic man. But that's what we are supposed to root for, even if his way isn't the easiest or the least guilt/blame inducing--the man made Mjolnir budge, come on! Morally he is in the right here.

Then again, Vision can actually use the hammer so maybe it's more about purity of intention rather than being morally in the right all the time.

 
If I had a vote, allow the Avengers to do their thing. People will die, and my family or myself might be among them. But you know what, if they dont try, then Loki and the ugly aliens will do worse. 

The last person/people I want making the decision on whether to activate the Avengers are politicians. 

 
AcerFC said:
If I had a vote, allow the Avengers to do their thing. People will die, and my family or myself might be among them. But you know what, if they dont try, then Loki and the ugly aliens will do worse. 

The last person/people I want making the decision on whether to activate the Avengers are politicians. 
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Exactly. Plus it's a Cap movie, they did a good job showing the motivations of both sides but I think it's clear we're "supposed" to see Cap as the good guy here, old man idealist or not.

 
They need to hurry up and make a deal for the F4 rights after that last bomb of a movie. That way post-Thanos the Accords can be the reason an "enhanced" dictator like Doctor Doom can rise in the shadows, with politicians holding the Avengers in check to stop a government sanctioned superhero squad from interfering abroad and starting WW3.

Right now the Avengers can piss other countries off with no political consequences--but making them beholden to the UN severely limits their operational scope and allows for the possibility of a "protected" country to fall under the sway of someone like Doom. What was the name of his made up country? Latveria or something?  Or maybe they can just use the Eastern European country that Ultron already ripped a hole out of, Sokovia. Doctor Doom can rise organically through the ranks there on a tide of anti Avengers rhetoric. It's perfect. He can operate out of the giant crater in the center of the country. And after introducing magic via Doctor Strange, they can let Doom have his arcane powers rather than ignoring them in favor of his techno-genius side like in every other movie so far.

 
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