*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (12 Viewers)

[jobarules]

The CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals are still too restrictive IMO.

They want this to end, they need to incentivize those on the fence people. You incentivize by telling them fully vaccinated people can return to normal (no masks, no travel restrictions, no social distancing). I get that they are still unsure about vaccinated people can transfer covid but I think that risk is minimal if anything. Again, our goal should not be eliminating all covid. That wont be possible.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals are still too restrictive IMO.

They want this to end, they need to incentivize those on the fence people. You incentivize by telling them fully vaccinated people can return to normal (no masks, no travel restrictions, no social distancing). I get that they are still unsure about vaccinated people can transfer covid but I think that risk is minimal if anything. Again, our goal should not be eliminating all covid. That wont be possible.

I don't know why masks in public is a big deal.

The guidance says you can see other fully vaccinated people.  Also says less risk going to restaurants and gym, but use caution.  This is the way until we hit at least 50% vaccination and/or get the daily cases down to 10,000.

I just read a COVID side effect is hair loss!?!  What the hell is up with this virus????

 

[RUSF18]

The CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals are still too restrictive IMO.

They want this to end, they need to incentivize those on the fence people. You incentivize by telling them fully vaccinated people can return to normal (no masks, no travel restrictions, no social distancing). I get that they are still unsure about vaccinated people can transfer covid but I think that risk is minimal if anything. Again, our goal should not be eliminating all covid. That wont be possible.

They said these people can gather inside with other vaccinated people without masks and without distancing, while saying they should "take precaution" and wear masks in public which covers travel. I think that's as good as you should reasonably respect. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I just read a COVID side effect is hair loss!?!  What the hell is up with this virus????

I originally thought I successfully dodged this virus, but today I learned that I actually contracted it 15 years ago.

 

[Doug B]

You incentivize by telling them fully vaccinated people can return to normal ...

It's not getting individuals vaccinated that gets society back to normal ... it's getting a critical mass of society vaccinated. There's no parting people out from the pandemic. It was never "this region vs that" or "the vulnerable vs the safe" or "the vaccinated vs the unvacced" ... dang near all of American society needed to be and still needs to be pulling in the same direction and react to the pandemic as a collective. Easier said than done, yes ... but the path would have been and can still be much shorter that way.

 

[parasaurolophus]

These are good points. Are we quite sure kids don't spread COVID in numbers in a 'naive' 2019 school environment?

Well we will never fully be back to naive 2019 environments so thats just another smokescreen.

Daycares are the best representation of these environments since they have made the fewest modifications. Many dont require masks for under 5, obviously hand washingbis emphasized more, but that doesnt mean much. 

So yes while daycare outbreaks have actually occurred(since again reasonable people dont say never), they are nowhere near what the "its a virus, why would this virus be any different" crowd would have predicted or what happens with other illnesses. 

The norm isnt that kids bring it in and it spreads like wildfire among the kids. The norm is a teacher brings it in and by far most of the kids didnt catch it. 

Which shouldnt be shocking. If the fomite route is minimal for covid then the thing that makes kids the most disgusting is touching their noses, their mouths, their butts etc. 

Also if kids are more likely to be asymptomatic i dont see how it would be hard to accept that they spread less. It isnt exactly controversial to think asymptomatic covid positives spread less. The quantity is open for debate, but i dont think anybody argues it is more. 

 

[The Commish]

I mean, I live in Florida...

Seek out one of the federally run outfits Cappy....they are on point.  There were 1500ish people at the one here in Orange county on Saturday and my wife was in and out in about 30 minutes (which included the 15 minutes hanging around to make sure she didn't have ill effects).  I know our Governor is refusing to go any path other than "age" for the state administered ones, but I can't find a list of what the fed gov't list is?  Has the fed gov't loosened to the restrictions to "any underlying condition" people?   

 

[Capella]

Seek out one of the federally run outfits Cappy....they are on point.  There were 1500ish people at the one here in Orange county on Saturday and my wife was in and out in about 30 minutes (which included the 15 minutes hanging around to make sure she didn't have ill effects).  I know our Governor is refusing to go any path other than "age" for the state administered ones, but I can't find a list of what the fed gov't list is?  Has the fed gov't loosened to the restrictions to "any underlying condition" people?   

Got mine today  

 

[The Z Machine]

Got mine today  

How did you qaulify?

 

[Capella]

How did you qaulify?

My job 

 

[Biff84]

The CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals are still too restrictive IMO.

They want this to end, they need to incentivize those on the fence people. You incentivize by telling them fully vaccinated people can return to normal (no masks, no travel restrictions, no social distancing). I get that they are still unsure about vaccinated people can transfer covid but I think that risk is minimal if anything. Again, our goal should not be eliminating all covid. That wont be possible.

That will come in time. Right now, you can remove those restrictions with others who have been vaccinated. The general public hasn’t been vaccinated at a point to make that safe. I’d expect that to happen within a couple months. If you say that mask don’t need to be worn in public, who is going to enforce that? Are you going to have the greeters checking vaccination cards at the door? It’s probably true that you can safely unmask in public, but the moment they do that, all mask mandates are done, so best to wait until enough of the whole population has been vaccinated.

 

[Doug B]

Also if kids are more likely to be asymptomatic I don't see how it would be hard to accept that they spread less. It isn't exactly controversial to think asymptomatic COVID positives spread less. The quantity is open for debate, but I don't think anybody argues it is more. 

That all makes sense and is not hard to accept at all. But this is never really spelled out -- it's more typically "Kids don't get or spread COVID, mmkay" A little underpinning goes a long way.

 

[Biff84]

One would think a state like CT (somewhat small, good density, not very rural, lots of commuters into NYC via train) would end up being very high on vaccination penetration.

All depends on how much vaccine they receive. Some places might not get enough to keep them ahead.

 

[bcat01]

Ohio is dropping the age to 50 for vaccination on Thursday.  This is not good as there are 1,000's of available appointments and the age just dropped to 60 last week.  There are a lot of people not getting the shot.

 

[parasaurolophus]

That all makes sense and is not hard to accept at all. But this is never really spelled out -- it's more typically "Kids don't get or spread COVID, mmkay" A little underpinning goes a long way.

I get that maybe some die hard covid deniers might say that, but i dont ever see the case framed that way in what I ever read. I never see those absolutes* 

*(Obviously intentional joke, but just cant be too sure these days)

 

[Capella]

God my wife just walked in all nervous because she read in article posted on one of her dumb Facebook groups about how if you got the vax but the nurse pinched your arm the vax doesn’t work its way to your blood stream and instead just stays in the fatty tissues or whatever. And of course she is convinced the nurse pinched her arm. 
 

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Facebook and the clickbait that feeds it. 

 

[worrierking]

I just got called by our clinic here at work.  I'm scheduled for the first shot (Moderna) tomorrow.  

 

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Ohio is dropping the age to 50 for vaccination on Thursday.  This is not good as there are 1,000's of available appointments and the age just dropped to 60 last week.  There are a lot of people not getting the shot.

Time for Vaccine Passports as it becomes universally available. 

Concerts, international travel, etc. for vaccinated folks. Let those who are being responsible reap the benefits of freedom... and let the deniers watch from the sidelines. 

 

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God my wife just walked in all nervous because she read in article posted on one of her dumb Facebook groups about how if you got the vax but the nurse pinched your arm the vax doesn’t work its way to your blood stream and instead just stays in the fatty tissues or whatever. And of course she is convinced the nurse pinched her arm. 
 

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Facebook and the clickbait that feeds it. 

There is a subset of this country that makes mouth breathers look like Nobel finalists. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Time for Vaccine Passports as it becomes universally available. 

Concerts, international travel, etc. for vaccinated folks. Let those who are being responsible reap the benefits of freedom... and let the deniers watch from the sidelines. 

I think that will be coming and enforced by those private companies.

 

[Capella]

There is a subset of this country that makes mouth breathers look like Nobel finalists. 

Facebook should be fired into hell

 

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I think that will be coming and enforced by those private companies.

It's going to be highly entertaining to see the tantrums thrown by antivaxxers regarding their "right" to attend a privately organized concert/festival while insisting on remaining a public health risk. 

 

[Doug B]

That all makes sense and is not hard to accept at all. But this is never really spelled out -- it's more typically "Kids don't get or spread COVID, mmkay" A little underpinning goes a long way.

I get that maybe some die hard covid deniers might say that, but i dont ever see the case framed that way in what I ever read. I never see those absolutes* 

To me, being gung ho about opening schools right this second is an absolute position -- the implication, IMHO, is very clearly "Kids don't get or spread COVID, mmkay". That doesn't necessarily mean "never", but logically is has to mean "so rarely that it really doesn't matter". And that's where the hang-up usually is -- "What exactly are we calling 'rarely', kemosabe?".

 

[parasaurolophus]

To me, being gung ho about opening schools right this second is an absolute position -- the implication, IMHO, is very clearly "Kids don't get or spread COVID, mmkay". That doesn't necessarily mean "never", but logically is has to mean "so rarely that it really doesn't matter". And that's where the hang-up usually is -- "What exactly are we calling 'rarely', kemosabe?".

Not much to talk about if you associate wanting schools open with saying that kids dont spread it or get it at all. That says to me you think we need to get to some magical fantasy land where we can fully protect our children from all disease, mmmkay.

So best to move on. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

These are good points. Are we quite sure kids don't spread COVID in numbers in a 'naive' 2019 school environment?

Of course we don’t. But parents are exhausted, so let’s just chance it and hope for the best?

 

[Dezbelief]

God my wife just walked in all nervous because she read in article posted on one of her dumb Facebook groups about how if you got the vax but the nurse pinched your arm the vax doesn’t work its way to your blood stream and instead just stays in the fatty tissues or whatever. And of course she is convinced the nurse pinched her arm. 
 

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Facebook and the clickbait that feeds it. 

My wife is a nurse who gives subcutaneous shots almost every work day, she said that you pinch someone's arm to give a shot when they don't have very much meat in their arm and you don't want to hit bone. I guess that explains why nobody has ever pinched my arm while giving me a shot.

 

[Dezbelief]

These are good points. Are we quite sure kids don't spread COVID in numbers in a 'naive' 2019 school environment?

Of course we don’t. But parents are exhausted, so let’s just chance it and hope for the best?

Didn't a large number of grandparents in Italy catch covid from watching their grandkids after schools shutdown while the parents continued working? That was early before the world was calling covid a pandemic.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Of course we don’t. But parents are exhausted, so let’s just chance it and hope for the best?

Our county put out COVID guidelines last year -- governing when schools would be safe.  Followed the CDC guidelines and suggested a community spread of roughly 15 cases/day per 100k people (among some other items).

Which they've now scrapped with community spread at around 20x the recommended levels to keep schools open.  As far as I can tell it's almost entirely on your "chance it and hope for the best" logic because parents are mad.

 

[Biff84]

Our county put out COVID guidelines last year -- governing when schools would be safe.  Followed the CDC guidelines and suggested a community spread of roughly 15 cases/day per 100k people (among some other items).

Which they've now scrapped with community spread at around 20x the recommended levels to keep schools open.  As far as I can tell it's almost entirely on your "chance it and hope for the best" logic because parents are mad.

Our school district got blasted by parents for following the guidelines and finally gave in a polled parents asked if they wanted school open regardless of community spread.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think that will be coming and enforced by those private companies.

I also think employers are going to require it at some point as well. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Our county put out COVID guidelines last year -- governing when schools would be safe.  Followed the CDC guidelines and suggested a community spread of roughly 15 cases/day per 100k people (among some other items).

Which they've now scrapped with community spread at around 20x the recommended levels to keep schools open.  As far as I can tell it's almost entirely on your "chance it and hope for the best" logic because parents are mad.

I agree wholeheartedly. And to be clear, I’m not a fan of the push to open schools as quickly as has occurred.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Didn't a large number of grandparents in Italy catch covid from watching their grandkids after schools shutdown while the parents continued working? That was early before the world was calling covid a pandemic.

Sorry, my post was sarcastic. I don’t agree with the chances we took opening schools as early as we did in some places, nor the sentiment that other restrictions should be lifted en bloc as in FL, TX, etc.

The pandemic isn’t over yet, but the general public is too impatient/burnt out/foolish to wait any longer for some semblance of normalcy.

 

[gianmarco]

God my wife just walked in all nervous because she read in article posted on one of her dumb Facebook groups about how if you got the vax but the nurse pinched your arm the vax doesn’t work its way to your blood stream and instead just stays in the fatty tissues or whatever. And of course she is convinced the nurse pinched her arm. 
 

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Facebook and the clickbait that feeds it. 

There's actually some truth to this.

The vaccine is an intramuscular vaccine. If whoever is giving the vaccine pinches the skin too much, then the injection may not make its way into the muscle and instead only go into the subcutaneous fat. In fact, when giving subcutaneous injections, that's the technique used so that it doesn't go too deep.

If the Covid vaccine is given subcutaneously, it can affect its efficacy because that area is not as vascular. But it doesn't mean it won't work at all.

 

[jobarules]

I agree wholeheartedly. And to be clear, I’m not a fan of the push to open schools as quickly as has occurred.

Quickly? A year of school is 7% of a child's education until college.

 

[gianmarco]

My wife is a nurse who gives subcutaneous shots almost every work day, she said that you pinch someone's arm to give a shot when they don't have very much meat in their arm and you don't want to hit bone. I guess that explains why nobody has ever pinched my arm while giving me a shot.

Unfortunately your wife isn't correct here.  

If she's giving subcutaneous shots, she's pinching the arm to keep it there and not go into the muscle. If it's meant to be subcutaneous, it's a smaller needle and has no chance of hitting bone.  She should be pinching everyone's arm.

If she's giving intramuscular injections, she shouldn't be pinching the skin. It's very unlikely to hit bone, and if one does on a rare occasion, you just pull the needle back a bit before injecting. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Quickly? A year of school is 7% of a child's education until college.

500,000+ people have lost 100% of their remaining life, and thousands more will before the pandemic ends.

It will be interesting to see the long term societal impact of the time away from school, but children tend to be pretty resilient, unlike dead people.

 

[Capella]

There's actually some truth to this.

The vaccine is an intramuscular vaccine. If whoever is giving the vaccine pinches the skin too much, then the injection may not make its way into the muscle and instead only go into the subcutaneous fat. In fact, when giving subcutaneous injections, that's the technique used so that it doesn't go too deep.

If the Covid vaccine is given subcutaneously, it can affect its efficacy because that area is not as vascular. But it doesn't mean it won't work at all.

Not going to read her this post lol 

 

[Capella]

My wife is a nurse who gives subcutaneous shots almost every work day, she said that you pinch someone's arm to give a shot when they don't have very much meat in their arm and you don't want to hit bone. I guess that explains why nobody has ever pinched my arm while giving me a shot.

I’ll read her this one  

 

[Battersbox]

500,000+ people have lost 100% of their remaining life, and thousands more will before the pandemic ends.

It will be interesting to see the long term societal impact of the time away from school, but children tend to be pretty resilient, unlike dead people.

You are entitled to your opinion about when it's appropriate for kids to return to their lives, but perhaps you shouldn't be so snide about it. After all, not every kid is so 'resilient'.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-lost-year-what-the-pandemic-cost-teenagers

 

[jobarules]

500,000+ people have lost 100% of their remaining life, and thousands more will before the pandemic ends.

It will be interesting to see the long term societal impact of the time away from school, but children tend to be pretty resilient, unlike dead people.

The effects on kids are mental, physical, and educational. You may be interested in seeing that impact, I'm not. Kids may be resilient but they have never had to endure this before. My son has now missed out on school for a whole year and the nonsense is not over. A WHOLE year in which he hasn't been able to make a new friend. A whole year in which he hasn't been able to make any progress on his reading. A whole year spending 6 hours in front of a screen becoming a zombie.

Man, I'm obviously very saddened by 500k dead but my son needs to get his life back. Most kids do. The kids suffering needs to end and if it means more deaths because of a virus that will NEVER GO AWAY so be it. A lot of seniors are vaccinated now anyway. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

You are entitled to your opinion about when it's appropriate for kids to return to their lives, but perhaps you shouldn't be so snide about it. After all, not every kid is so 'resilient'.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-lost-year-what-the-pandemic-cost-teenagers

None of us will know how badly this impacts kids collectively until years after the pandemic is over. I’m not trying to be callous to the mental health of our children (and at the extreme, suicide), but half a million deaths from covid overshadows those concerns, IMO.

 

[Terminalxylem]

The effects on kids are mental, physical, and educational. You may be interested in seeing that impact, I'm not. Kids may be resilient but they have never had to endure this before. My son has now missed out on school for a whole year and the nonsense is not over. A WHOLE year in which he hasn't been able to make a new friend. A whole year in which he hasn't been able to make any progress on his reading. A whole year spending 6 hours in front of a screen becoming a zombie.

Man, I'm obviously very saddened by 500k dead but my son needs to get his life back. Most kids do. The kids suffering needs to end and if it means more deaths because of a virus that will NEVER GO AWAY so be it. A lot of seniors are vaccinated now anyway. 

I’m not denying this sucks for both kids and their families. I’m just not valuing their lives over people at risk for covid.

The virus doesn’t need to go away. We need to vaccinate as many vulnerable people as possible, ideally somewhere near the herd immunity threshold before we really ease off restrictions. It’s probably only another couple months, and almost certainly before the next school year begins.

 

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Quickly? A year of school is 7% of a child's education until college.

A year of school is 25% of a child's education until Middle School 

 

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I should bump the weekly polls I was doing as COVID was approaching... even as Italy was getting rocked this place still had 60-70% voting that Covid would be no big deal / minimal impact on day to day life here.   

Guessing if I had a section that said what percent of you think we'd have half a million Americans die of this.. would have been low single digits.

Also wagering if we asked what we should do with schools if we knew we'd have more people die in 1 year than in a decade of the flu, people would have said "no way I'd send my kid to school". 
 

It certainly feels like it's winding down... and the vaccine is a huge part of that. But @Terminalxylem has been a guiding scientific voice in this thread during this pandemic... so it's kinda funny seeing people who would likely fail a 3rd grade science quiz second guessing him. 

 

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Also, apparently home schooling your kids should be illegal, based in the catastrophic effects to their development Im reading about in here. 

 

[Doug B]

Also, apparently home schooling your kids should be illegal, based in the catastrophic effects to their development Im reading about in here. 

Virtual school and homeschooling are very different things.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My 6 year old has been 100% cyber. He liked me reading to him but had no interest in learning how to read. He now is reading at a second grade level from virtual learning. 

 

[The Z Machine]

My 6 year old has been 100% cyber. He liked me reading to him but had no interest in learning how to read. He now is reading at a second grade level from virtual learning. 

Very glad to hear it.  Similar boat here.  My son was sorta ambivalent about practicing his reading in the past.  This year, he's much more interested.

My 7 year old twins are in a language immersion school (Spanish).  They've both made leaps and bounds in their reading during this school year in both English and Spanish.  They can't spell for crap in English, but that's totally unimportant these days.  Learning where to put the accent marks and developing the ear for proper stresses on the syllables in Spanish is more important.  They're crushing that.

The funny thing is we've switched their keyboard layout to Spanish, so some of the punctuation doesn't map to the actual keys.  I wonder if they'll struggle writing on an English layout keyboard.  It's not as bad as the German Z/Y layout issues, but could be a hiccup until their brain resets to the new layout.

 

[Battersbox]

None of us will know how badly this impacts kids collectively until years after the pandemic is over. I’m not trying to be callous to the mental health of our children (and at the extreme, suicide), but half a million deaths from covid overshadows those concerns, IMO.

I would agree with you we should keep kids out of school if we knew keeping kids out of school we would save 500k lives, but we simply have no reason to believe that's the case.

So the real choice is...can we accept the damage to kids for the chance that it might save some of those 500k lives? The problem is we have no idea of the extent to the damage to kids, and we have no idea just how many lives it would save. 

The only real studies I've seen on this suggest the spread from within schools is limited. Moreover, we have countless real world examples from the past 10 months or so which also suggest kids aren't spreading it in school to a meaningful degree. I don't believe we've limited that 500k much at all by keeping them home. I think the damage to kids (both in the most extreme case which is suicides) and in more indirect ways (loss of self esteem, drug abuse, abuse from adults going unreported, the lack of normal mental development through primary and teenage years) is far greater. 

 

[Battersbox]

I should bump the weekly polls I was doing as COVID was approaching... even as Italy was getting rocked this place still had 60-70% voting that Covid would be no big deal / minimal impact on day to day life here.   

Guessing if I had a section that said what percent of you think we'd have half a million Americans die of this.. would have been low single digits.

Also wagering if we asked what we should do with schools if we knew we'd have more people die in 1 year than in a decade of the flu, people would have said "no way I'd send my kid to school". 
 

It certainly feels like it's winding down... and the vaccine is a huge part of that. But @Terminalxylem has been a guiding scientific voice in this thread during this pandemic... so it's kinda funny seeing people who would likely fail a 3rd grade science quiz second guessing him. 

I don't know if this is directed at me, but if so I'm not surprised because you remain the only poster who's ever insulted me on this board. 

And I agree Terminalxylem has provided lots of useful info. That doesn't mean one can't disagree with him from time to time.