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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (16 Viewers)

YLE update on Nu

The last piece of "good news" answers some of the questions about revised vaccine approval

There is some good news though

....

Third, if we need another vaccine, we can do this incredibly quickly. Thanks to the new biotechnology, mRNA vaccines are really easy to alter. Once the minor change is made, only 2 dozen people need to enroll in a trial to make sure the updated vaccine works. Then it can be distributed to arms. Because the change is small, an updated vaccine doesn’t need Phase III trials and/or regularity approval. So, this whole process should take a max of 6 weeks. We haven’t heard from Moderna or Pfizer if they’ve started creating an updated vaccine, but I guarantee conversations have started behind closed doors.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/new-concerning-variant-b11529?justPublished=true&fbclid=IwAR3D9HQ8WjjaOe_0JrpoaQI3NHyeMMgaMJKO-h_49uZqhtEPZzbfN9vwf4I

 
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Let’s say they decide we needed a booster or vaccine for Nu - what would that mean for people that have already been boosted?  I’ve been pretty adamant about everyone needs to get vaccinated and boosted, etc.  so, in theory I’m fine with it but at some point I would like to understand the implications and strategy.  

 
Let’s say they decide we needed a booster or vaccine for Nu - what would that mean for people that have already been boosted?  I’ve been pretty adamant about everyone needs to get vaccinated and boosted, etc.  so, in theory I’m fine with it but at some point I would like to understand the implications and strategy.  


My armchair scientist opinion is that there is not enough information on the variant, yet.

If it is very successful at evading immunity, then I assume it will be recommended that all people get a booster targeting the new strain. This would replace the booster and likely 1st and 2nd shots for anyone who have not received them.

If it is only marginally successful, it may take over for the 1st and 2nd shots and the booster shots for new recipients, but not be recommended for anyone who has been previously boosted (until some point in the future where they decide immunity starts to naturally wane and a 4th shot is necessary).

My guess is that anyone will continue to be able to walk in and get the new dose, regardless of their vaccination status.

 
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My armchair scientist opinion is that there is not enough information on the variant, yet.

If it is very successful at evading immunity, then I assume it will be recommended that all people get a booster targeting the new strain. This would replace the booster and likely 1st and 2nd shots for anyone who have not received them.

If it is only marginally successful, it may take over for the 1st and 2nd shots and the booster shots for new recipients, but not be recommended for anyone who has been previously boosted (until some point in the future where they decide immunity starts to naturally wane and a 4th shot is necessary).

My guess is that anyone will continue to be able to walk in and get the new dose, regardless of their vaccination status.
:goodposting:

Hopefully scientist figure this out quickly. Wife has a booster scheduled for Dec 6 and would seem possibly dumb to keep that appt if Nu variant booster is a fast follower. e.g. if having a 2nd booster within 90 days is advised against. 

 
Not worried about this at all. They can just tweak the vaccine and update it and we’ll all move on. Not sure what people are panicked about?

I guess if I have to semi-quarantine again for a month while we wait for the updated vaccine that’s no big deal. 
 

Are we all just addicted to fear now?

 
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Take this for whatever you think it's worth.  No harm, no foul if you don't believe.

Last night I had a chance to ask all of my outstanding questions to someone who's been close to COVID since January of 2020, and has had direct conversations with almost all the folks you see on TV (Fauci, Scott Gottlieb, Wolensky, etc). 

Thought I'd summarize it here for anyone who might be interested.

Me:  even though breakthrough cases are increasingly common as the vaccines wane, they're still providing great protection against hospitalization and death, right?

Them:  right.  And the vaccines are still providing like 66% protection against infection too -- which is basically the number we were hoping for when we started vax development.  They're still good!  But even though infections are increasing, bad outcomes are still almost all among the unvaxxed or people with serious existing health problems (immunocompromised, etc).

Me:  I delayed my booster by about a month, am I taking any real risk by doing that?  

Them:  not at all.  There's some thinking now that the boosters are SO effective that the regimen should have three shots from the beginning though.  But your odds of a bad outcome if you get sick are very low.  So low that there's still a debate about whether we should be taking them or sending them to places that need them for 1st or 2nd shots.  But we don't seem to be able to get those shots where they need to be in any event, so...

Me:  it's so politicized and so muddy now, and I haven't spent any time trying to untangle it for myself, that I'm not clear on what Fauci and the CDC messed up at the start of this and what's just political axe-grinding.  What are the legit criticisms of Fauci and the CDC?

Them:  the biggest mistake was at the very beginning thinking that COVID would be like SARS or MERS (people are very sick before they're able to infect others/spread the disease), and that it would be ~easy to contain.  There was a result (paper?) in Germany from mid-January 2020 that suggested how easily it spread that should have set off red alerts for everyone -- that asymptomatic people were actually contagious, but they took the wrong lessons from the problems with the paper (many 'asymptomatics' actually had cold symptoms) and missed the main finding (that people could spread this before they were really sick!).  They screwed up.

Me:  what about the mask thing?  

Them:  Fauci, etc were trying to protect N95 masks for health workers and also not panic people.  But in hindsight the messaging should have been much clearer.  Even if you protected N95s it turns out that even cloth masks and etc are effective against respiratory infections.  COVID less so than some others -- but there's good evidence now that masks do help and they should have been much clearer and stronger that people need to be wearing them. 

There's a bigger problem with masks in general though, one that goes back decades, and that's that there's no money to be made from researching their effectiveness -- so almost no one was doing it.  It would have been easy to pay students at one dorm to mask through flu/cold season and then track illness vs another dorm (for example) but almost no one has done that kind of work.  It's an institutional failing that we didn't know masking (and social distancing, etc) would effectively ELIMINATE the flu for example.

Also the desire to keep people from panicking was misguided in general.  It muted or muddied too many important messages.

Me:  you mentioned the flu.  It was basically wiped out in the US last winter, right?  

Them:  yep.  And is still almost entirely missing.

Me:  so if everyone in the world masked up for a year -- would flu be eradicated?  

Them:  basically -- at least in the short run.  There would still be reservoirs that would let it reemerge, but it's clear that masking makes it impossible to spread.  A lot of what we though we knew about how respiratory disease spreads before COVID is likely to be proved wrong.  It seems like aerosols are much more important and fomites/touching your eyes and nose and mouth are much less important generally.

Me:  right -- so related to that, my impression is that being outside is virtually safe.  That you are extremely unlikely to get COVID outside unless you're in someone's face since aerosols are dispersed into infinite volume?

Them:  yeah -- the stuff from early in the pandemic about riding behind another biker and all that was just junk.  Even inside if there's a big circulation of air it helps a lot.  What we're learning from COVID might end up bringing in a new standard -- where HEPP(?) filters and ultraviolet light and heavier circulation of air is a the norm.

Me:  I saw the news about the Pfizer and Moderna pills last week -- do those seem legit?

Them:  We don't know yet.  I can't see anything they'd gain by lying, but until we see the reviewed results it's worth reserving judgement.  If they do check out they look to be VERY effective though.

Me:  so in ...? months we're on the other side of COVID?  If the pills check out?

Them:  Unless there's something wrong with the tests, we'll probably have a pill approved for treatment in about three months and within six months or so they'd be widely available.

Me:  and we're past COVID?  

Them:  COVID's never going to go away now, but it'll be like the flu or a cold -- you get sick and then get better.  So yeah, sometime in 2022 it's probably not as big concern in the US.

 [/end]

The caveat riding through all of this was that there's still a ton we don't really understand, so surprises could still happen. Plus this is one person's take on things.

Also, to the degree that people continue to be unvaxxed and refuse any effective pill treatment, COVID will continue to be a problem in that population.

 
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[icon] said:
Infection-Acquired immunity isn't automatic against variants... highly dependent on level/type of mutation. 

Over time, yes. Infection-Acquired immunity will adapt to compensate. 

Assuming your infection-acquired immunity to a Delta infection automatically protects you against all strains would be incorrect as far as I understand.

Others who know more can clarify, but from my understanding there is a possibility (albeit slight) that a variant could mutate to such a degree that we would be starting at borderline ground zero WRT "herd immunity".
 

 If that were to happen, mRNA vaccines could likely be adapted quite quickly... within weeks. Manufacturing/production would take time. Unsure on FDA clearance but one would assume it would be quick given it's a tweak of an existing approved vaccine. Again, based on previous reading... please correct me if I'm wrong. 
Just in time for another round of boosters!

Pfizer must be loving this ####

 
Had Thanksgiving with my wife's side of the family who most of the family members are very much "justaflu" and anti-vaccine. Good news is while most of them are unvaccinated, most of the have had it and recovered. Was talking to my wife's uncle who is very hard core conservative. He had it. Here are some of the things he told me:

  1. Masks don't work
  2. COVID is no joke. It kicked his butt and he wouldn't wish it on anyone.
  3. He doesn't blame anyone for wanting the vaccine, but don't force it on him. He doesn't trust it.
  4. The vaccines are a giant money grab by Phizer and Moderna
  5. The mandates and mitigation efforts are just one step in the government's effort to control people
  6. He has hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin in the closet that he is willing to share if I need it.
 
  1. The vaccines are a giant money grab by Phizer and Moderna
This reminded me of something else from our conversation...

Pfizer is indeed going to end up making Tesla type money out of all this.

They also asked me if I'd see that Moderna tried to patent their vaccine without crediting NIH.  I had seen that and this person said it was great to see NIH push back on that so forcefully.  Too many times the government helps develop things for pharma that end up being super profitable and doesn't share in the reward.  (I'm not clear whether that's a share of actual profits or what.)

Also, when we were talking about the things Fauci had done wrong, they pointed out that Fauci deserves a lot of credit for helping lay the groundwork for MRNA vaccines in general going back 15 years.  I don't recall the details but one of his close associates was a driving force behind them in some way and it's something he's been very supportive of over the years.  At least I think that was the gist of it.

 
Three area hospitals are basically approving every vaccine exemption if you agree to testing.  My niece and wife's friend did it on a religious exemption at 2 of the hospitals even though they have all other vaccines.  The hospitals would probably loose 30 to 40 percent of staff if they did not.

 
I understand that, but unless they are children or can’t get the vaccine due to some health issue…it’s kind of their fault. 
There's also folks who got the vaccine but it didn't give much protection.  Not certain, but my dad might fall into this category. 

Thankfully, the index case of that 6 year old finally returned a negative PCR test result.  So the caucus chances it was circulating in my house last night was pretty low. 

 
So, apparently need 2 weeks of lab work to determine vaccine effectiveness against this. Then 6 weeks to develop new mRNA vaccine sequence. Then 100 days to manufacture and ship initial doses ….

Sooooo there goes the January office returns — spring shots. Ugh. 

 
So, apparently need 2 weeks of lab work to determine vaccine effectiveness against this. Then 6 weeks to develop new mRNA vaccine sequence. Then 100 days to manufacture and ship initial doses ….

Sooooo there goes the January office returns — spring shots. Ugh. 
Remember when everyone gave me #### for not wanting to get shots every 6 months :P

I literally just got a booster shot :lol:

 
I’m not so sure. While not completely anti-Big Pharma, I do believe they need some oversight. 

Then again, I don’t know who the general public distrusts more - big business or government?
Fair enough.  On reflection, I agree that you could at least make a good argument that closer involvement by private firms might make vaccine hesitancy worse in some quarters.  

I'm heavily influenced by the fact that it's the FDA that has consistently stood in the way of me being able to respond to COVID using tests and treatments that are either ubiquitous elsewhere (cheap and easy tests) or that people want to make compulsory five minutes after they're no longer banned (vaccines/boosters).

 
Turing over COVID detection and treatment to PR departments and internet conspiracists seems like a lousy idea.


Right, and is that the only other option?  Other countries have their regulatory agencies approving treatments fast than ours. Maybe we can find a way to be more responsive without turning it over to kooks?
We've heard information about the Nu variant for about 2 days, the stock market dove, and you suggested burning down the FDA and CDC. Seems a bit panicky to me, like the crowds running screaming from Godzilla on Tokyo streets in the old Japanese movies.

Gozilla's not going to stomp us in the next few hours. There's time to learn more and have better ideas what to do. The posts in between yours and this reply to yours seem to include a lot of good information.

 
Turing over COVID detection and treatment to PR departments and internet conspiracists seems like a lousy idea.
Turning over COVID policy to Phizer would have saved lives relative to turning it over to the CDC and FDA.
Maybe.  Without FDA/CDC involvement Johnson & Johnson might also have released those millions of doses of their vaccine produced in unsafe conditions in their Emergent Biosystems buildings in Baltimore.

For the most part I think Big Pharma and the FDA/CDC are both needed to keep each other honest and us protected. If either entity did all the testing and all the releasing I'd be terribly distrustful and more than a big scared. As it is their forced working arrangement seems more protective of us.

 
For the most part I think Big Pharma and the FDA/CDC are both needed to keep each other honest and us protected. If either entity did all the testing and all the releasing I'd be terribly distrustful and more than a big scared. As it is their forced working arrangement seems more protective of us.
Like in other aspects of our lives, checks and balances are important. We need the other side of the equation to balance out the others. It is just as true here as in other places.

I certainly want it at work as well. I want someone looking, hard, to catch the mistakes I might make. I'm in a business where if I make an uncaught mistake that gets caught too late, it can easily cost 7 figures and over a year to fix. These mistakes pale in comparison when you think about about the CDC/FDA/BigPharma are trying to do. 

 
I understand that, but unless they are children or can’t get the vaccine due to some health issue…it’s kind of their fault. 
Yea I get the sentiment but when you live with them it’s a bit tougher to say, “sorry for your choices in life.” 
 

I understand what you’re saying. Just can’t turn my back on my wife no matter how much I disagree.

 
Three area hospitals are basically approving every vaccine exemption if you agree to testing.  My niece and wife's friend did it on a religious exemption at 2 of the hospitals even though they have all other vaccines.  The hospitals would probably loose 30 to 40 percent of staff if they did not.
My sister in law is a RN at a nursing home. She got her exemption just recently for "religious reasons". She hasn't been to church in years. 

 
In OH visiting relatives, COVID surging here and in neighboring MI. I’d say about 1/3 of the folks here wearing masks now. Really surprised, especially with the relatives we’re here to see. One is recovering from a recent bout of treatments for pancreatic cancer, one is elderly & overweight with high blood pressure (has been vax’d w/booster), neither wear a mask anywhere. 
 

Kinda disappointed with humanity a little. I’m coming from SC where we just don’t believe COVID exists but it’s 75% masks at least. 

 
In OH visiting relatives, COVID surging here and in neighboring MI. I’d say about 1/3 of the folks here wearing masks now. Really surprised, especially with the relatives we’re here to see. One is recovering from a recent bout of treatments for pancreatic cancer, one is elderly & overweight with high blood pressure (has been vax’d w/booster), neither wear a mask anywhere. 
 

Kinda disappointed with humanity a little. I’m coming from SC where we just don’t believe COVID exists but it’s 75% masks at least. 
Sounds like WI.  Very few people here in masks.  At the gym today — maybe 25-30% masked.

 
Yea I get the sentiment but when you live with them it’s a bit tougher to say, “sorry for your choices in life.” 
 

I understand what you’re saying. Just can’t turn my back on my wife no matter how much I disagree.
Oh. That sucks man. Sorry. 

 
Take this for whatever you think it's worth.  No harm, no foul if you don't believe.

Last night I had a chance to ask all of my outstanding questions to someone who's been close to COVID since January of 2020, and has had direct conversations with almost all the folks you see on TV (Fauci, Scott Gottlieb, Wolensky, etc). 

Thought I'd summarize it here for anyone who might be interested.

Me:  even though breakthrough cases are increasingly common as the vaccines wane, they're still providing great protection against hospitalization and death, right?

Them:  right.  And the vaccines are still providing like 66% protection against infection too -- which is basically the number we were hoping for when we started vax development.  They're still good!  But even though infections are increasing, bad outcomes are still almost all among the unvaxxed or people with serious existing health problems (immunocompromised, etc).

Me:  I delayed my booster by about a month, am I taking any real risk by doing that?  

Them:  not at all.  There's some thinking now that the boosters are SO effective that the regimen should have three shots from the beginning though.  But your odds of a bad outcome if you get sick are very low.  So low that there's still a debate about whether we should be taking them or sending them to places that need them for 1st or 2nd shots.  But we don't seem to be able to get those shots where they need to be in any event, so...

Me:  it's so politicized and so muddy now, and I haven't spent any time trying to untangle it for myself, that I'm not clear on what Fauci and the CDC messed up at the start of this and what's just political axe-grinding.  What are the legit criticisms of Fauci and the CDC?

Them:  the biggest mistake was at the very beginning thinking that COVID would be like SARS or MERS (people are very sick before they're able to infect others/spread the disease), and that it would be ~easy to contain.  There was a result (paper?) in Germany from mid-January 2020 that suggested how easily it spread that should have set off red alerts for everyone -- that asymptomatic people were actually contagious, but they took the wrong lessons from the problems with the paper (many 'asymptomatics' actually had cold symptoms) and missed the main finding (that people could spread this before they were really sick!).  They screwed up.

Me:  what about the mask thing?  

Them:  Fauci, etc were trying to protect N95 masks for health workers and also not panic people.  But in hindsight the messaging should have been much clearer.  Even if you protected N95s it turns out that even cloth masks and etc are effective against respiratory infections.  COVID less so than some others -- but there's good evidence now that masks do help and they should have been much clearer and stronger that people need to be wearing them. 

There's a bigger problem with masks in general though, one that goes back decades, and that's that there's no money to be made from researching their effectiveness -- so almost no one was doing it.  It would have been easy to pay students at one dorm to mask through flu/cold season and then track illness vs another dorm (for example) but almost no one has done that kind of work.  It's an institutional failing that we didn't know masking (and social distancing, etc) would effectively ELIMINATE the flu for example.

Also the desire to keep people from panicking was misguided in general.  It muted or muddied too many important messages.

Me:  you mentioned the flu.  It was basically wiped out in the US last winter, right?  

Them:  yep.  And is still almost entirely missing.

Me:  so if everyone in the world masked up for a year -- would flu be eradicated?  

Them:  basically -- at least in the short run.  There would still be reservoirs that would let it reemerge, but it's clear that masking makes it impossible to spread.  A lot of what we though we knew about how respiratory disease spreads before COVID is likely to be proved wrong.  It seems like aerosols are much more important and fomites/touching your eyes and nose and mouth are much less important generally.

Me:  right -- so related to that, my impression is that being outside is virtually safe.  That you are extremely unlikely to get COVID outside unless you're in someone's face since aerosols are dispersed into infinite volume?

Them:  yeah -- the stuff from early in the pandemic about riding behind another biker and all that was just junk.  Even inside if there's a big circulation of air it helps a lot.  What we're learning from COVID might end up bringing in a new standard -- where HEPP(?) filters and ultraviolet light and heavier circulation of air is a the norm.

Me:  I saw the news about the Pfizer and Moderna pills last week -- do those seem legit?

Them:  We don't know yet.  I can't see anything they'd gain by lying, but until we see the reviewed results it's worth reserving judgement.  If they do check out they look to be VERY effective though.

Me:  so in ...? months we're on the other side of COVID?  If the pills check out?

Them:  Unless there's something wrong with the tests, we'll probably have a pill approved for treatment in about three months and within six months or so they'd be widely available.

Me:  and we're past COVID?  

Them:  COVID's never going to go away now, but it'll be like the flu or a cold -- you get sick and then get better.  So yeah, sometime in 2022 it's probably not as big concern in the US.

 [/end]

The caveat riding through all of this was that there's still a ton we don't really understand, so surprises could still happen. Plus this is one person's take on things.

Also, to the degree that people continue to be unvaxxed and refuse any effective pill treatment, COVID will continue to be a problem in that population.


This is good stuff but I felt a lot of this is mostly yeah I knew this is probably it and his answers were pretty vague and not as detailed as I'd expect from someone close to these people. Not saying he's wrong and all either. This info was really good. I just think he was a stating a few obvious things when you asked. 

 
Had Thanksgiving with my wife's side of the family who most of the family members are very much "justaflu" and anti-vaccine. Good news is while most of them are unvaccinated, most of the have had it and recovered. Was talking to my wife's uncle who is very hard core conservative. He had it. Here are some of the things he told me:

  1. Masks don't work
  2. COVID is no joke. It kicked his butt and he wouldn't wish it on anyone.
  3. He doesn't blame anyone for wanting the vaccine, but don't force it on him. He doesn't trust it.
  4. The vaccines are a giant money grab by Phizer and Moderna
  5. The mandates and mitigation efforts are just one step in the government's effort to control people
  6. He has hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin in the closet that he is willing to share if I need it.


Ahh the covid is no joke but I won't do anything to help bootlicker. These are some of my favorites. Those who end up having it but say 

1. Masks don't work AKA means I can't be inconvenience 

2. Well I'll admit it just not a flue anymore but I won't do anything to help myself or community because I'm selfish

3. The backhanded comment of I don't blame anyone for getting a Vaccine but don't force me and others to get it because of some BS I read from some "expert" hardcore conservative from OAN, first watch, Sons of liberty, Ben Shapiro, FauxNews etc hardcore conservative sites where we never trust science

4. The Government is trying to control us all statement. Here we go let me guess this guy also thinks abortions should be illegal and you can't change his 2A rights but I don't want the government controlling my life hypocrite statement 

6. Let me guess he's done his own research and he says it helps. Ask him next time if he's willing to take an IV of bleach in his system as you heard that works too. 

I'm sorry I know this guy is your uncle and all but please tell me this guy hasn't reproduced at all. 

 
Death mostly. I’m around a fair amount of unvaccinated folks and I’d rather they didn’t catch it.


Unless they have a legit reason not to get Vaxxed I'm in the I don't care if you are my family member or not. Want to play stupid games? Then don't be surprised to win stupid prizes AKA die from it. That's on you. It's unfortunate but I'm honestly just tired of it all. A lot of these people if we haven't changed their minds by now they will never change. 

 
I’m not so sure. While not completely anti-Big Pharma, I do believe they need some oversight. 

Then again, I don’t know who the general public distrusts more - big business or government?


I distrust both the same. Both would hate me if I were president of the US and the Rich would hate me even more. Big Business would really hate that I'm forcing them to pay people a living wage with benefits who they can't run a business model. Honestly If I were ever President I'd be at such a high risk of possible being assassinated by the CIA and other big establishment people. 

 
My sister in law is a RN at a nursing home. She got her exemption just recently for "religious reasons". She hasn't been to church in years. 


I never got the religious reasons. Unless you are amish a jahovas witness or something a shot shouldn't be a religious exemption. But then again theres a lot of sensitivity involved. Then again I'm someone who thinks religion is nothing but a farce and something that prays on the weak or those gullible enough anyway to make do their bidding. Religion has caused more wars in this world then anything else. 

 
Ahh the covid is no joke but I won't do anything to help bootlicker. These are some of my favorites. Those who end up having it but say 

1. Masks don't work AKA means I can't be inconvenience 

2. Well I'll admit it just not a flue anymore but I won't do anything to help myself or community because I'm selfish

3. The backhanded comment of I don't blame anyone for getting a Vaccine but don't force me and others to get it because of some BS I read from some "expert" hardcore conservative from OAN, first watch, Sons of liberty, Ben Shapiro, FauxNews etc hardcore conservative sites where we never trust science

4. The Government is trying to control us all statement. Here we go let me guess this guy also thinks abortions should be illegal and you can't change his 2A rights but I don't want the government controlling my life hypocrite statement 

6. Let me guess he's done his own research and he says it helps. Ask him next time if he's willing to take an IV of bleach in his system as you heard that works too. 

I'm sorry I know this guy is your uncle and all but please tell me this guy hasn't reproduced at all. 
He has 5 kids. 3 of which have families.. That all feel the same way..  :(

 
Sounds like WI.  Very few people here in masks.  At the gym today — maybe 25-30% masked.


PA similar but at the same time I'm seeing people who were vaccinated not wearing masks anyway. My store is a all employees must wear them but I don't know if thats my county or my company. Plus it's pointless when I see half my coworkers at night not wearing them and the vendors are suppose to have them and don't either. I don't want to wear it anymore do to my autism sensitivity issues anyway. I might just go in massless tomorrow and do an experiment the next few days and see if anyone tells me to wear it or not. If My boss does I'm gonna bring up how the vendors aren't and half the store at night isn't wearing them. Plus how he has his off constantly himself. He hates confrontation so he might just go fine do what you want at this point. 

 
In OH visiting relatives, COVID surging here and in neighboring MI. I’d say about 1/3 of the folks here wearing masks now. Really surprised, especially with the relatives we’re here to see. One is recovering from a recent bout of treatments for pancreatic cancer, one is elderly & overweight with high blood pressure (has been vax’d w/booster), neither wear a mask anywhere. 
 

Kinda disappointed with humanity a little. I’m coming from SC where we just don’t believe COVID exists but it’s 75% masks at least. 
Where at in Ohio? Here in northeast Ohio it is probably a little higher percentage of folks wearing a mask than what you said, but not buy much. Here in Ohio the state congress passed legislation (enough to counter a veto) that prohibited what the governor could do via health mandate. DeWine basically stopped proposing anything after that passed. Been kind of the wild west since then.

 
So Christmas Eve my Dad's Uncle and Aunt Italian and Armenian do a big XMass Eve open house which is 5 mins down the street from me we've gone too for yrs now. We didn't go in 2019 as his Uncle had Heart surgery and DR said it'd be too much. Obviously canceled last year and this year it got canceled as he's having knee surgery in 11 days. 

2019 we went to my 2nd Cousins house for Xmass eve (She was married on my birthday when I was 5) and I like her and her husband. Kids are cool but a little ritzy at times. Her Husband is a contractor and they live in a house with a barn and some farm animals (my one cousin rides horses in competitions). Unfortunately I found out last year from my dad's aunt Her and her family are big Trump supporters. Her parents and Brothers are pretty disappointed and they had their XMass eve party. Nothing happened thankfully with anyone sick

This year we were invited to their house since my Aunt isn't having it. I haven't brought it up to my parents but her whole family I'm sure isn't Vaccinated. Everyone else on my dad's side is from Aunts and Uncles and Cousins and my one 2nd cousin is pregnant with Twins due in March or so. Really not sure how I feel going over there. I want to as I don't go often and am Vaccinated. Problem is I'm seeing my mom's family New Years day for Xmass so I'd rather not bring anything that could harm my grandmother. I guess we'll figure things out  when they come. 

 
Also was out Thanksgiving eve at a local popular bar. Later afternoon I've got a sore throat right now. Hoping it's more from the yelling and talking Ive done the last few days and not coming down with anything. Everything else is fine right now. Not tired, no cough, no running nose, lack of smell or taste etc. I'll keep you guys update on this. Have work tomorrow afternoon working a night shift so if I get worse I might call out to be safe the rest of the weekend. 

 
Looking like status on Vax is: 

J&J / AstroZenica / PfizerBioNTech:
- Testing current vax vs Omicron

Moderna: 
- Testing current vax vs Omicron
- Testing higher dose vs Omicron
- Testing Omicron-Specific Vax :eek:  
 

from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/health/omicron-variant-what-we-know/index.html

STORY:

What vaccine makers are saying

In a Friday news release, Moderna said it was rapidly working to test the ability of its vaccine to neutralize the variant and data is expected in the coming weeks.

The strain includes mutations "seen in the Delta variant that are believed to increase transmissibility and mutations seen in the Beta and Delta variants that are believed to promote immune escape," Moderna said. "The combination of mutations represents a significant potential risk to accelerate the waning of natural and vaccine-induced immunity."

If its current vaccine and booster are insufficient against the variant, one possible solution is boosting people with a larger dose, which Moderna said it is testing. The company is also evaluating two multivalent booster candidates to see if they provide better protection against Omicron -- both of which include some of the viral mutations present in the variant. 

Moderna said it is also testing an Omicron-specific booster.

"For several days, we have been moving as fast as possible to execute our strategy to address this variant," Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel said in the news release.

AstraZeneca also said it was looking to understand the impact Omicron has on its vaccine, which is not currently authorized for use in the US.

"AstraZeneca is also already conducting research in locations where the variant has been identified, namely in Botswana and Eswatini, that will enable us to collect real world data of Vaxzevria against this new virus variant," a spokesperson for the company said Friday.

The company also said it is testing its antibody treatment, AZD7442, against the variant. AstraZeneca asked the US Food and Drug Administration in October to authorize emergency use of the treatment.

Scientists at BioNTech, the German company that partnered with Pfizer to make its Covid-19 vaccine, are also investigating the impact of the variant on their shot, with data expected within the next couple of weeks.

A Johnson & Johnson spokesperson told CNN in a statement the company was also testing the effectiveness of its vaccine against Omicron.

 
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Really not sure how I feel going over there. I want to as I don't go often and am Vaccinated. Problem is I'm seeing my mom's family New Years day for Xmass so I'd rather not bring anything that could harm my grandmother.
That's the basic conflict for those of us who are vaccinated and want to protect ourselves and others --- do what we know we need to, or get together with the family as we always did before COVID. 2 pretty gut instincts at odds.

 
NY gov shutting down elective surgeries due to surge in cases. 
I'm not sure they've shut them down. I think the governor has just allowed the Health Department to shut them down if need be.

The declaration, which goes into effect on Dec. 3, will allow the state to acquire pandemic-fighting supplies, increase hospital capacity and fight potential staffing shortages. It would also allow the state Health Department to limit non-essential and non-urgent procedures at hospitals. "We continue to see warning signs of spikes this upcoming winter, and while the new Omicron variant has yet to be detected in New York State, it's coming," Hochul said.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/omicron-variant-ny-declares-state-of-emergency-ahead-of-potential-spike/3421297/

 

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