*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (8 Viewers)

[Terminalxylem]

This is an interesting concept. It’s a small study of a protein-derived vaccine specifically designed to stimulate T-cell response to SARS-CoV-2. T cells are central in cell-mediated immunity, and the anamnestic (memory) immune response. They work in concert with B cells and the antibodies they produce, but are much more durable.

If this pans out, it may reduce or eliminate the need for mRNA vaccine boosters.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Wow - just had a first for me. Nurse let me administer my own rapid PCR test.

[ASIDE - So I’ve been battling vertigo for about 6-7 weeks. Think this is my 4th or 5th visit, they keep running different tests. The procedure they’re doing today isn’t available at the Brooklyn or Manhattan VA, had to trek up to the Bronx VA  - 90 minutes, 2 trains.]

ANYWAY…when I have appointments in Brooklyn I get a Covid test a day or two in advance. Since I haven’t had one this week, they wanted to give me that results-in-15 minutes test. I told the attending, “Look, this never goes well for me. It hurts, makes my eyes water, I have involuntary convulsions….sorry but every single time it’s been difficult. Why does this have to be so barbaric?”

No problem, take this swab and do exactly what I tell you.

Well that’s one thing I’m thankful for!

 

[[icon]]

Some fun contradictions I've encountered recently among the anti-vax crowd. 
 

They love their "natural" immunity, so they're not injecting something "'man made" into their body... but they are also convinced the virus is made in a Chinese Lab... and HATE products manufactured in China.  

They are also PISSED that insurance companies are ending govt mandated  "out of pocket cost" waivers, and cutting back on free testing.... but they also HATE socialized medicine.

 


 

 

[massraider]

On vaccine shedding 

https://www.healthline.com/health/vaccine-shedding#about-vaccine-shedding

 

[belljr]

I asked a bit back but didn't see anything posted.

Is there any study/news on the 16/17 year olds and boosters?

Everything I read is about 18+.

I'm in no rush  and debating on even getting one but was curious if there is any information.

 

[Doug B]

One of things that I hope bears out for kids receiving COVID vaccines is that their bodies continue being able to quickly make COVID antibodies. IOW, that their immunological memory is primed so that they never really have to concern themselves with COVID for virtually the rest of their lives.

Considering the body's track record with other coronaviruses, and waning immunity described in adults, I doubt that will be the case.

Do you think the following is broadly feasible?

Age 4-5 -- To comply with local school mandates, a child gets a full course of COVID vaccine (to include a third shot 6-12 months after the first two).
Age 6 -- Child's vaccine-induced antibodies have waned to essentially nil.
Age 7 -- Child is exposed to endemic COVID (a variant very close to Delta in all aspects). Child's adaptive immune system kicks in the absence of right-now antibodies. The infection thus has a bit of lead time to set in, but not enough to cause more than annoying symptoms for a few days.
Age 8 -- Child is again exposed to endemic COVID, much like last time. Another Delta-like variant, no major changes in transmissibility, level of illness, etc. Pretty much the same thing happens as the year prior.
Age 10-18 -- Child is exposed to endemic COVID an average of twice a year. The worst of the symptoms are indistinguishable from what would've been considered a cold prior to 2020. Some of the infections are even asymptomatic altogether.
Age 19+ -- Person receives an inadvertent "booster infection" every year or two or three. Congratulations, COVID now joins the legacy coronaviruses as being yet another vector for the common cold.

...

The idea is that instead of receiving dedicated booster COVID vaccines throughout the child's life, the repeated exposures to Delta-like variants of COVID essentially serve the purpose of booster shots. My understanding is that this is hypothesized to have already happened with other coronaviruses, causing a serious pandemic at first, then settling into a manageable endemic illness later on.

I see your point about waning immunity in adults as observed in 2021. Is it meaningful that it's been waning adults who have not been successfully fighting off SARS-CoV-2 all of their lives? If us middle-aged folks had first caught COVID as toddlers, and then have continued to have frequent exposures to it (assuming no game-changing variants) throughout our lives ... wouldn't we be a lot better off now?
 

 

[Doug B]

I asked a bit back but didn't see anything posted.

Is there any study/news on the 16/17 year olds and boosters?

Everything I read is about 18+.

I'm in no rush and probably and debating on even getting one but was curious if there is any information.

My son is 15, so my ear is to the ground as well. So far, haven't seen or heard anything.

 

[fatness]

Whats the difference?  The shot still let's people shed.  A good vaccine is sterilizing.

Debunking the anti-vaccine hoax about ‘vaccine shedding’

Medical experts and the CDC said it’s not biologically possible for the COVID-19 vaccine to “shed” or affect unvaccinated people, despite what anti-vaccine activists claim.

The misinformation about “vaccine shedding” has had a real-world impact. One Miami private school recently instructed immunized teachers to stay away from students, citing the baseless claim that unvaccinated people can experience menstrual irregularities and other reproductive harm simply from interacting with vaccinated people. There is no evidence that the COVID-19 vaccines cause fertility or menstruation problems in people who get them, let alone in their close contacts, experts said.

"There is absolutely no biological mechanism for any COVID-19 vaccine side effects or vaccine components to shed to others,"

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Debunking the anti-vaccine hoax about ‘vaccine shedding’

I’m sure this will settle the debate in this thread once and for all

 

[fatness]

Georgia Tech's risk calculator for COVID exposure, based on event size and state vaccination rate: https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

 

[jobarules]

Does anybody know of anyone that caught covid AFTER being boosted yet?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Does anybody know of anyone that caught covid AFTER being boosted yet?

I know one older person (75-80 ish, extended family member).  But the infection was within a few days of being boosted, so…..tough to say if the booster had even taken effect yet.

 

[fatness]

Does anybody know of anyone that caught covid AFTER being boosted yet?

About 20 million have not.

 

[jobarules]

I know one older person (75-80 ish, extended family member).  But the infection was within a few days of being boosted, so…..tough to say if the booster had even taken effect yet.

The pharmacist told me it takes 14 days to kick in similar to the first two shots.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

World Health Organization says more than 60% of the world's cases and deaths were in Europe over the last week (BBC link).  Some highlights:

The WHO has warned Europe faces another 700,000 deaths by March

Netherlands set to announce new restrictions as cases at record levels

Slovakia highest per capita infection rise in the world

 

[Terminalxylem]

Do you think the following is broadly feasible?

Age 4-5 -- To comply with local school mandates, a child gets a full course of COVID vaccine (to include a third shot 6-12 months after the first two).
Age 6 -- Child's vaccine-induced antibodies have waned to essentially nil.
Age 7 -- Child is exposed to endemic COVID (a variant very close to Delta in all aspects). Child's adaptive immune system kicks in the absence of right-now antibodies. The infection thus has a bit of lead time to set in, but not enough to cause more than annoying symptoms for a few days.
Age 8 -- Child is again exposed to endemic COVID, much like last time. Another Delta-like variant, no major changes in transmissibility, level of illness, etc. Pretty much the same thing happens as the year prior.
Age 10-18 -- Child is exposed to endemic COVID an average of twice a year. The worst of the symptoms are indistinguishable from what would've been considered a cold prior to 2020. Some of the infections are even asymptomatic altogether.
Age 19+ -- Person receives an inadvertent "booster infection" every year or two or three. Congratulations, COVID now joins the legacy coronaviruses as being yet another vector for the common cold.

...

The idea is that instead of receiving dedicated booster COVID vaccines throughout the child's life, the repeated exposures to Delta-like variants of COVID essentially serve the purpose of booster shots. My understanding is that this is hypothesized to have already happened with other coronaviruses, causing a serious pandemic at first, then settling into a manageable endemic illness later on.

I see your point about waning immunity in adults as observed in 2021. Is it meaningful that it's been waning adults who have not been successfully fighting off SARS-CoV-2 all of their lives? If us middle-aged folks had first caught COVID as toddlers, and then have continued to have frequent exposures to it (assuming no game-changing variants) throughout our lives ... wouldn't we be a lot better off now?
 

I don’t think kids are at much risk from covid either way, but their ability to transmit to vulnerable (older) peeps is what will likely earn them periodic (who knows what frequency?) boosters.

And yes, at some point endemic covid becomes like a cold. But we’re a long way from that, so we need assistance from (repeated) vaccines and antiviral meds. And a mucosal vaccine would really help.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"There is absolutely no biological mechanism for any COVID-19 vaccine side effects or vaccine components to shed to others,"

In plain English, "it is impossible".

 

[fatness]

One of the weirdest ways I've seen someone trying to grift off antivaccination misinformation: https://twitter.com/chris_notcapn/status/1463315007995846658

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Whats the difference?  The shot still let's people shed.  A good vaccine is sterilizing.

To clarify:

When you say "shed" are you referring to a vaccinated person being able to contract the virus naturally, and then shed the virus that virus and spread infection? 

OR

Are you saying that when someone is vaccinated, that they are shedding virus based on the body's response to the vaccine, and infecting people, WITHOUT having contracted the virus itself?

 

[jobarules]

# of cases in my sons school was low since September. 1 a week usually. However they have been increasing pretty rapidly this past week. Up to 8 active cases right now.

 

[The Z Machine]

Ok I have a Thanksgiving covid situation.  Here are the facts. 

My wife and I alternate taking the kids (8 year old twins) to school each day.  We also take 2 other kids to school with ours (6 and 8 years old).  All kids wear masks in the car and we ride with the windows cracked. I took them on Thursday and she took them on Friday.  All 4 kids are about 2 weeks from their first vaccine dose. 

The youngest developed some as stuffy head and cold symptoms last weekend.  She doesn't go to school on Monday.  Her sister does go to school on Monday, but not Tuesday and there was no school today. 

6 year old gets an at home rapid test on Tuesday morning.  Results were "inconclusive". I take my 2 to get PCR'd right after school on Tuesday.  Results come back negative for both of mine this morning.  No results back for the other 2 girls as of yet.  My wife and I got PCR'd this morning and no results back yet. 

We are hosting Thanksgiving this year.  I haven't seen my father in 2 years since he lives in Los Angeles and I live in Baltimore.  He's 73 with an autoimmune disease (MG) which is well managed.  He got a booster 3 weeks ago. He and his wife are up in Philly and were planning on coming down on Thanksgiving (tomorrow) for photos, dinner, etc.  They were going to stay like 3 nights with us then fly back to LA.

Oh and my mom and get boyfriend are staying with us until my bother and I do the "parents swap", which was planned for Thanksgiving day. 

So... what do we do?  There's no guarantee that we will get results back on the index case (6 year old with the cold symptoms) before Thanksgiving is kaput.

Schrodingers covid...

 

[AAABatteries]

Georgia Tech's risk calculator for COVID exposure, based on event size and state vaccination rate: https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

Don’t even need to use the calculator - Bobby Dodd Stadium is perfectly safe.

@Capella  

 

[Terminalxylem]

Ok I have a Thanksgiving covid situation.  Here are the facts. 

My wife and I alternate taking the kids (8 year old twins) to school each day.  We also take 2 other kids to school with ours (6 and 8 years old).  All kids wear masks in the car and we ride with the windows cracked. I took them on Thursday and she took them on Friday.  All 4 kids are about 2 weeks from their first vaccine dose. 

The youngest developed some as stuffy head and cold symptoms last weekend.  She doesn't go to school on Monday.  Her sister does go to school on Monday, but not Tuesday and there was no school today. 

6 year old gets an at home rapid test on Tuesday morning.  Results were "inconclusive". I take my 2 to get PCR'd right after school on Tuesday.  Results come back negative for both of mine this morning.  No results back for the other 2 girls as of yet.  My wife and I got PCR'd this morning and no results back yet. 

We are hosting Thanksgiving this year.  I haven't seen my father in 2 years since he lives in Los Angeles and I live in Baltimore.  He's 73 with an autoimmune disease (MG) which is well managed.  He got a booster 3 weeks ago. He and his wife are up in Philly and were planning on coming down on Thanksgiving (tomorrow) for photos, dinner, etc.  They were going to stay like 3 nights with us then fly back to LA.

Oh and my mom and get boyfriend are staying with us until my bother and I do the "parents swap", which was planned for Thanksgiving day. 

So... what do we do?  There's no guarantee that we will get results back on the index case (6 year old with the cold symptoms) before Thanksgiving is kaput.

Schrodingers covid...

How long was the car ride? 

Regardless, ~ 1 week post-exposure, masked in a car with decent ventilation, vaccinated and without symptoms + neg PCR from your two kids, I think the risk is negligible. If the car ride is 15 min or less, even better.

If you’re really worried about it, can you eat the meal outside and wear masks/quarantine until your PCRs are back?

 

[The Z Machine]

How long was the car ride? 

About 20 mins.

If you’re really worried about it, can you eat the meal outside and wear masks/quarantine until your PCRs are back?

It's pretty dang cold here in Baltimore. Right now 36 degrees. 

The thing is that I spooked my dad by telling him about the possible close contact and it may be that he's only willing to come down here with negative PCR tests in hand from everyone. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

About 20 mins.

It's pretty dang cold here in Baltimore. Right now 36 degrees. 

The thing is that I spooked my dad by telling him about the possible close contact and it may be that he's only willing to come down here with negative PCR tests in hand from everyone. 

Is your dad on any immunosuppression (prednisone, etc.)?

If not, I wouldn't sweat it. 

Regardless, I think the chances of the kid having it, one of the adults catching it over a relatively short period, despite everyone wearing masks, and being contagious enough  a week out without symptoms, when all the adults are thrice vaccinated is pretty low. 

 

[The Z Machine]

Is your dad on any immunosuppression (prednisone, etc.)?

I think he's done with the prednisone but he does get a Rituxin (Rituximab) infusion every 6 months. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

I think he's done with the prednisone but he does get a Rituxin (Rituximab) infusion every 6 months. 

Bummer. Rituxan is bad for antibody production. When was his last shot? Hopefully nowhere near the time he got vaccinated.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I think he's done with the prednisone but he does get a Rituxin (Rituximab) infusion every 6 months. 

I wouldn’t risk it.  At that age taking that medication he may not be very well protected.  If you make the choice to risk it though n95 masks for adults and masks for the kids and if you have a hepa air cleaner that would help as well.  

 

[The Z Machine]

Bummer. Rituxan is bad for antibody production. When was his last shot? Hopefully nowhere near the time he got vaccinated.

I think the 1st dose of the vaccine was close to an infusion and the 2nd one 4 weeks later.  He put off a scheduled infusion to get a booster.

He's basically had no side effects from any mRNA shot other than a sore arm.  I know they say that there's no correlation with protection, but that makes me nervous that the vax didn't do much for him. 

He was essentially a hermit for 12 months before the vax came out.  He is pretty risk averse although he has no other comorbidities than the MG (as if that's not a huge one...)

 

[jobarules]

Ok I have a Thanksgiving covid situation.  Here are the facts. 

My wife and I alternate taking the kids (8 year old twins) to school each day.  We also take 2 other kids to school with ours (6 and 8 years old).  All kids wear masks in the car and we ride with the windows cracked. I took them on Thursday and she took them on Friday.  All 4 kids are about 2 weeks from their first vaccine dose. 

The youngest developed some as stuffy head and cold symptoms last weekend.  She doesn't go to school on Monday.  Her sister does go to school on Monday, but not Tuesday and there was no school today. 

6 year old gets an at home rapid test on Tuesday morning.  Results were "inconclusive". I take my 2 to get PCR'd right after school on Tuesday.  Results come back negative for both of mine this morning.  No results back for the other 2 girls as of yet.  My wife and I got PCR'd this morning and no results back yet. 

We are hosting Thanksgiving this year.  I haven't seen my father in 2 years since he lives in Los Angeles and I live in Baltimore.  He's 73 with an autoimmune disease (MG) which is well managed.  He got a booster 3 weeks ago. He and his wife are up in Philly and were planning on coming down on Thanksgiving (tomorrow) for photos, dinner, etc.  They were going to stay like 3 nights with us then fly back to LA.

Oh and my mom and get boyfriend are staying with us until my bother and I do the "parents swap", which was planned for Thanksgiving day. 

So... what do we do?  There's no guarantee that we will get results back on the index case (6 year old with the cold symptoms) before Thanksgiving is kaput.

Schrodingers covid...

So everyone got tested. 2 PCR came back negative for your kids, no results for you and wife yet, and the original kid with cold  symptoms no results yet. The kid with cold symptoms do they have a fever? If not I'd say your all fine. Are all your guests vaxxed? Maybe inform them of the circumstances and leave the ball in their court. 

 

[The Z Machine]

So everyone got tested. 2 PCR came back negative for your kids, no results for you and wife yet, and the original kid with cold  symptoms no results yet. The kid with cold symptoms do they have a fever? If not I'd say your all fine. Are all your guests vaxxed? Maybe inform them of the circumstances and leave the ball in their court. 

All guests vaxxed. Just cold symptoms, no fever. 

I finally caved and told the mom of the 6 year old that Thanksgiving was likely canceled due to this.  I couldn't hold it back any more and now I made her sad about it. 

 

[The Z Machine]

My dad suggests to delay until tomorrow.  But there's no guarantee that a) results for 6 year old will be back by then and b) it will be negative. 

 

[jobarules]

All guests vaxxed. Just cold symptoms, no fever. 

I finally caved and told the mom of the 6 year old that Thanksgiving was likely canceled due to this.  I couldn't hold it back any more and now I made her sad about it. 

Seems crazy to me. Kids get colds all the time. 

 

[The Z Machine]

Seems crazy to me. Kids get colds all the time. 

Sure, but there's no guarantee that this is a cold, especially when the rapid test on the 6 year old returns a faint line. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

My cousin - 50 yo, massively overweight, major diabetes issues - tested positive for Covid two days ago.   He’s not vaccinated (just like his siblings and most of my extended family) because Covid is a media fiction and the vaccines were created by Gates and Soros to control us all.

 

[jobarules]

Sure, but there's no guarantee that this is a cold, especially when the rapid test on the 6 year old returns a faint line. 

On an at home test

 

[Dragons]

My dad suggests to delay until tomorrow.  But there's no guarantee that a) results for 6 year old will be back by then and b) it will be negative. 

When did the 6 year old take the PCR test? Did the 8 year old sibling get tested? Is this family invited to your Thanksgiving dinner?

I would defer to your Dad's comfort level, since he is at the most risk. There is no guarantee you get more information tomorrow, but you could continue to delay or outright cancel tomorrow morning. Delaying a day gives you a chance to receive more data.

 

[Dragons]

On an at home test

Home tests are more likely to be false negative than false positive, especially with mild (or no) symptoms.

 

[Biff84]

The pharmacist told me it takes 14 days to kick in similar to the first two shots.

One of the doctors that regularly appears on CNN or MSNBC (don’t remember her name) said that the booster actually gives significant efficacy in 72 hours. That’s the first I heard of it and haven’t seen any data backing the claim.

I have heard of a couple people getting COVID after being boosted but they fall into immunocompromised conditions. We’re also seeing huge outbreaks in our schools after being great for awhile.

 

[The Z Machine]

Wife and I just rapid tested and both were negative. 

My dad just called and said he's coming.  Not sure what changed his mind.  I'm emotional about this thing right now... thankfully they have to drive 2 hours to get here. 

 

[jobarules]

My cousin - 50 yo, massively overweight, major diabetes issues - tested positive for Covid two days ago.   He’s not vaccinated (just like his siblings and most of my extended family) because Covid is a media fiction and the vaccines were created by Gates and Soros to control us all.

Hope he's ok

 

[jobarules]

Home tests are more likely to be false negative than false positive, especially with mild (or no) symptoms.

Except his wasn't positive 

 

[Dragons]

Except his wasn't positive 

Correct, this is the exact scenario where you can not fully trust the results of the test.

 

[jobarules]

All guests vaxxed. Just cold symptoms, no fever. 

I finally caved and told the mom of the 6 year old that Thanksgiving was likely canceled due to this.  I couldn't hold it back any more and now I made her sad about it. 

The 6 year old was coming to Thanksgiving? 

 

[the moops]

My brother and family (wife, two teenage daughters) and my mom and dad all came up from FL for Thanksgiving. I donated kidney to my dad years ago, so he is super high risk, so we have always been very  careful and have only seen him a couple times in the past 2 years.

We all got tests on Saturday. Rapid and PCR. Rapid came back negative. Because of back log, just got PCR results and I am presumptive positive. My oldest has a negative test. Waiting on my youngest and my wife's test still.

We have spent lots of time together indoors over the past several days. 

I am in basement. Brought down several bottles of wine and plan on just hanging solo until the other tests come in. Told the parents not to come over today (my bro and fam are staying with us), my folks are renting a place. Not sure what the #### we all do now. Ugh

We are all vaccinated except my 8 and 10 year old. They have their 2nd shot scheduled for Monday. My brother and parents are all boosted. 

I feel fine, just a bit hungover from hanging with my brother last night. We drank many beers and played cribbage until the wee hours.

Happy ####### Thanksgiving all :(

 

[jobarules]

My brother and family (wife, two teenage daughters) and my mom and dad all came up from FL for Thanksgiving. I donated kidney to my dad years ago, so he is super high risk, so we have always been very  careful and have only seen him a couple times in the past 2 years.

We all got tests on Saturday. Rapid and PCR. Rapid came back negative. Because of back log, just got PCR results and I am presumptive positive. My oldest has a negative test. Waiting on my youngest and my wife's test still.

We have spent lots of time together indoors over the past several days. 

I am in basement. Brought down several bottles of wine and plan on just hanging solo until the other tests come in. Told the parents not to come over today (my bro and fam are staying with us), my folks are renting a place. Not sure what the #### we all do now. Ugh

We are all vaccinated except my 8 and 10 year old. They have their 2nd shot scheduled for Monday. My brother and parents are all boosted. 

I feel fine, just a bit hungover from hanging with my brother last night. We drank many beers and played cribbage until the wee hours.

Happy ####### Thanksgiving all :(

Hopefully the vax does the job and limits spread. My son spent a half hour in a car ride with his aunt in the summer, no masks, and she tested positive the next day. My son didn't get it.

 

[The Commish]

They are also PISSED that insurance companies are ending govt mandated  "out of pocket cost" waivers, and cutting back on free testing.... but they also HATE socialized medicine.

Hadnt heard this. Its about time. Needed to happen once the vaccines were available, months ago

 

[The Commish]

I’m sure this will settle the debate in this thread once and for all

Thats a very generous definition of "debate"

 

[fatness]

Thanksgiving plans just changed in 1 phone call. 16-year-old granddaughter woke up sick with cough, fever, swollen lymph nodes. So we're switching from 9 of us indoors to 8 of us outdoors. Not sure how we'll transport all the food, some might get left behind, but we're still getting together after not being able to last year. It will be a cluster #### but probably one we'll enjoy and remember.

Some real coflicting strong emotions to deal with --- self-preservation vs. desire to be with family. This is the best plan my son and I could come up with.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Thanksgiving plans just changed in 1 phone call. 16-year-old granddaughter woke up sick with cough, fever, swollen lymph nodes. So we're switching from 9 of us indoors to 8 of us outdoors. Not sure how we'll transport all the food, some might get left behind, but we're still getting together after not being able to last year. It will be a cluster #### but probably one we'll enjoy and remember.

Some real coflicting strong emotions to deal with --- self-preservation vs. desire to be with family. This is the best plan my son and I could come up with.

Seems like a smart plan.  Hope she is ok and everyone else stays healthy.