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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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Doug B
Footballguy
My last post before this one is my explanation. Can't say anything more than that. Either people matter or they don't.
matuski
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
You don't call everyone you passed in the hall ... you call people you've spent meaningful time with.
If you've really sat down for extended periods with 200 people in three days ... well, your calendar is a lot busier than ours. Maybe in your case, you sent an email blast? Or text a bunch of people and ask the to pass it on? Would be hard to catch 200 people, but I bet you could prioritize the most likely 10-20.
Doug B
Footballguy
At my son's school, the vaccination status of all students are on file (refusal to file something or not playing ball = 'unvaccinated' status).
When close-contact notifications go out, the response depends on each students' vaccination status. Vaccinated students are permitted to stay on campus and keep going to in-person school per normal. Unvaccinated students are dismissed from campus for 7 calendar days. All work is online for both in-person students and remote students ... so those not on campus are expected to keep up with their assignments (all students have school-assigned Chromebooks, and the few without home Internet access were assigned hot-spot devices of some kind).
matuski
Footballguy
Meaningful time.. lunches, breakfasts. Inservices where I literally touch each persons hands to guide them. Cases. That is just work... had a birthday dinner with 6 other couples last night.
My last sign in sheet for a lunch inservice today was 21, and I know they didn't all bother to sign in like I asked.
Or we can pick my kids. Just all their classmates across periods, the dozen or so they sit with at lunch, the wrestling team. Just school there.. the neighbors after school, and they stayed with the other couples' kids lastnight during dinner.
Good for you if you only spent real time with so few.... just not our life.
I ignore them at this pointMy sons highschool sends multiple daily email notifications of classmate and teacher positive tests.... I don't get the point anymore.
I'm not not sending my kids to school tomorrow.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
This time of year everyone has symptoms. We don’t want so many people quarantining for every running nose that everything shuts down. This is why it’s important to test. Imo regular rapid testing is critical to slowing this down.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Technically, if they're both over age 65 (the study actually included age 55 and higher), they qualify for Sotrovimab. But the benefit was seen when it was given early, within 5 days of symptom onset. And people who've been vaccinated are lower risk, Tier 4 (out of 4) on the prioritization scheme. Being unboosted increases risk slightly. Prior (remote) infection plays an unclear role in fighting what is likely omicron.
There's no evidence-based answer to your question, and covid can be unpredictable, transiently getting better before coming back with a vengeance around day 10-14, presumably corresponding to the immune phase of illness. But omicron seems to run its course more quickly.
All that being said, unless your parents have other health problems increasing the risk of disease progression, I think they'll be fine without it. The combination of their general health, prior vaccination, omicron's diminished virulence and delay since onset of symptoms all factor into my thinking.
It's probably more important to elaborate their doctor's rationale though.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Sorry your child can’t go to daycare for a while, but I think you’re overlooking a big part of the picture. Have you been to a hospital lately?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Why would you listen to medical guidance, when you can arbitrarily decide if/when boosters are necessary?
This place got softer than warm butter@[icon] directly asks me to show my work. Did so thoroughly. Apparently wasn't expecting that.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
And that was two posts after Judge Smails’ description of crisis care standards.So you say let's just stick our heads in the sand, and let this turn into a full on nationwide inferno... thereby completely collapsing our healthcare system, killing hundreds of thousands if not millions more people due to a lack of even remotely adequate healthcare resources?
Yeahhhhhh.. i'm not sure I'm down to sign up for that.
Our current system isn't perfect, but the mitigation effects in place are the only reason our healthcare system is still standing.
For those who didn’t bother to read it, crisis standards are implemented when the proverbial sh!t hits the healthcare fan. Patients are triaged based on probability of survival and resource availability. Care that normally would be provided won’t be offered to some, potentially expediting deaths.
This is the type of care that occurs during wartime and natural disasters. I’ve never experienced it during my 20+ year career.
I know it’s hard to understand everything that occurs outside one’s bubble, but it would be great if we all took some some time to appreciate a broader perspective. The pandemic isn’t over yet, no matter how much we want it to be, and admitting defeat isn’t going to make things any easier.
I get not getting tested without symptoms. I get not bothering if it won’t change how you act. I don’t get being upset that a parent tested their kid who was symptomatic. That’s a ridiculous complaint. Kids might not be high risk but they are pretty good at spreading anything they get to everyone they come in contact with. Kids absolutely should absolutely be tested when showing symptoms because it affects more than just them.
The reaction and focus on personal impact makes it pretty clear - if your kid was sick, you’d probably still send them in to avoid having to stay home from work.
The reaction and focus on personal impact makes it pretty clear - if your kid was sick, you’d probably still send them in to avoid having to stay home from work.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
So many posters think in dichotomous terms, and can’t/won’t accept a range of possible outcomes. I’m not sure how to convince people we don’t need to be perfect to do the right thing.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
That's a long way to talk around the topic
Generally speaking the average person does not have the ability to fit-test a mask. However, N95 respirators have been shown via independent lab testing to have a MUCH higher fit factor and protection level than any of the fabric masks tested. Protection from an N95 isn't a binary "Fit tested or 100% worthless" scenario.
MEAN FIT FACTOR
(Tested via NHS guidelines using TSI PortaCount Pro Respirator Fit Tester model 8038+)
Xiantao Zong - 13.2
Aero Pro - 35.5
The 3M 8200 - 72.3
Makrite - 37.7
Fabric Masks - 2.1
VERDICT: N95 respirators by default provide superior fit than fabric masks. This certainly requires the user to ensure the mask doesn't have any gaps in fit around the face, however the same is true for a cloth mask. Common sense training on mask fit (ensuring your breathing feels "restricted" and your mask pulls in/out as you breathe as a poor mans fit test) would be helpful... but removing blatant user error (which goes both ways) from the equation, N95 masks crush fabric masks.
Anyone arguing the standard cloth masks worn by folks being comparable to an n95 mask is either trolling or has lost their mind.
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This i just don’t get. Events, sure, but bars and restaurants you know what you’re getting yourself into. You’re not going to be masked the entire time you’re eating or drinking. It’s a risk and you can choose if you want to take it. Having everyone vaccinated will only make a minimal difference.
nirad3
Footballguy
Update from the nirad3 household..... wife was positive AGAIN (2nd time, and she's fully vaxxed / not-boostered). She had a scratchy throat, was fatigued, and for an afternoon, felt a little dizzy (but could have been lack of iron / dehydration too).
Kids both negative (again).
I didn't test since I had to quarantine for 10 days regardless. Plus, at-home test-kits are at a premium and we want to save the two we have left over "just in case".
Kids went back to school yesterday after being off for a few days. That sucked.
Working from home - exclusively - also sucks. I need a couple days a week in the office to maintain absolute efficiency.
Kids both negative (again).
I didn't test since I had to quarantine for 10 days regardless. Plus, at-home test-kits are at a premium and we want to save the two we have left over "just in case".
Kids went back to school yesterday after being off for a few days. That sucked.
Working from home - exclusively - also sucks. I need a couple days a week in the office to maintain absolute efficiency.
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Insoxicated
This is adorable coming from a guy who's literally spent more time whining about mitigation efforts inconveniencing you or harming your family's mental health than just about all other posters combined.
Keep telling us about 100% of EVERYONE doing EVERYTHING, GB... never change. And before you defensively try to claim claim you were using hyperbole... don't pretend any of us couldn't bump 1000 posts* of you making claims like that non hyperbolically (or just being flat out wrong regarding just about every facet of this pandemic) dating back to the beginning of this thread. Christ you were even misleading about your job dude.
At this point I can't figure out if your persistent desire to have the same flawed stances ripped apart by other posters is a masochistic streak or another reason that I'll leave up to the imagination to avoid being non-excellent.
*THAT'S Hyperbole
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Doug B
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
A couple nurse coworkers of mine have called off a few time lately because they cant find consistent childcare. Their daycares were closed.
Jeez someone's sensitiveThis is adorable coming from a guy who's literally spent more time whining about mitigation efforts inconveniencing you or harming your family's mental health than just about all other posters combined.
Keep telling us about 100% of EVERYONE doing EVERYTHING, GB... never change. And before you defensively try to claim claim you were using hyperbole... don't pretend any of us couldn't bump 1000 posts* of you making claims like that non hyperbolically (or just being flat out wrong regarding just about every facet of this pandemic) dating back to the beginning of this thread. Christ you were even misleading about your job dude.
At this point I can't figure out if your persistent desire to have the same flawed stances ripped apart by other posters is a masochistic streak or another reason that I'll leave up to the imagination to avoid being non-excellent.
*THAT'S Hyperbole
[icon]
Insoxicated
If typing that while giggling at the irony is sensitive then indeed I am
I just was tickled by literally the softest dude in here dropping that comment. Carry on with the incessant whining and fake anecdotes we've come to know and love.
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You literally proved my point with your reply Drax.If typing that while giggling at the irony is sensitive then indeed I am
I just was tickled by literally the softest dude in here dropping that comment. Carry on with the incessant whining and fake anecdotes we've come to know and love.
Yeah its really soft to survive losing a child says the guys who mailed a stapler around the world cupcake.
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massraider
Footballguy
An interesting thought I heard on the radio today, public radio I think:
For-profit hospitals, Covid patients are not as profitable as elective surgery. Hospitals can benefit financially by under reporting Covid cases, to avoid triggering a ban on elective surgery.
It can be to their benefit to not do the right thing, in terms of public health. I have NO IDEA if this is happening, but it seems logical
For-profit hospitals, Covid patients are not as profitable as elective surgery. Hospitals can benefit financially by under reporting Covid cases, to avoid triggering a ban on elective surgery.
It can be to their benefit to not do the right thing, in terms of public health. I have NO IDEA if this is happening, but it seems logical
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Y'all need to be more cool up in here.
gianmarco
Footballguy
This is absolutely the case. Hospital make significantly when that schedule of GI endoscopies is on tap.
culdeus
Footballguy
Several reports of this during Delta wave I remember. Some hospital groups were more or less treating people in waiting rooms and cars and sending home with bottles until a certain O2 was reached so they could keep up the $$$ procedures
Would the under reporting really matter? I thought most elective surgeries were getting shut down by choice of the health system. Not reporting the cases won’t change the amount of beds and resources they need for them. Early in the pandemic they were preemptively shutting them down but now it’s the actual lack of resources.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
we had 20 call out end of last week, nurses and techs. Only a couple with a positive covid test. Most were either awaiting a test result or had daycares and schools closed.
You're going to get major pushback in this forum but I get what you're saying. Our kids are two and four and go to daycare. We don't get the kids tested anymore unless we are required to. we have some sort of bug at our house all the time. a positive result wouldn't really change anything since we both work from home the only place our kids go is daycare and occasionally seeing the grandparents (who don't care about COVID).
Plus, my kids are terrified of going to the doctor now because the test hurts. My 4 year old fought tooth and nail and cried bloody murder last time, I can't do that to her anymore. If they are really sick, we'll get them tested but we'd stay home then anyway. But for normal cold symptoms, I'm just not going to do that to my kids anymore.
Roy L Fewks
Footballguy
Guy who sits across from me was not at work yesterday. He shows up today and we ask him what happened.
Him: "Oh man, I had a fever and a headache and a terrible cough, so I went to the doctor and he had me get a COVID test."
The rest of us ask, "What was the test result?"
He says, "I don't know, I haven't received the results yet. But I'm feeling better so I thought I'd come in to work........"
Him: "Oh man, I had a fever and a headache and a terrible cough, so I went to the doctor and he had me get a COVID test."
The rest of us ask, "What was the test result?"
He says, "I don't know, I haven't received the results yet. But I'm feeling better so I thought I'd come in to work........"
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yeah, that sucks, and there is probably no good solution to that problem. But I don’t think employers are responsible for their employees’ childcare either.
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Insoxicated
It would benefit long run to establish an onsite staff childcare cell if it's truly an issue. Partially fund it.
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Doug B
Footballguy
During a good chunk of 2020, one of our clients -- a local hospital -- paid for child care at a nearby day care center for hospital employees. Then they applied for a federal grant to reimburse the cost of the day care as part of the hospital's COVID surge response.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
A person in my office did this this week. She has mild cold symptoms -- literally just the sniffles as far as I can tell, and just minor sniffles at that -- but she decided to get tested out of an abundance of caution. Okay, cool. But while she's waiting around for results she's still in the office, attending meetings, etc.Guy who sits across from me was not at work yesterday. He shows up today and we ask him what happened.
Him: "Oh man, I had a fever and a headache and a terrible cough, so I went to the doctor and he had me get a COVID test."
The rest of us ask, "What was the test result?"
He says, "I don't know, I haven't received the results yet. But I'm feeling better so I thought I'd come in to work........"
This doesn't bother me particularly, but symptomatic testing seems irrational if you can't get a quick result and you're just going to go about your normal business anyway in the meantime.
(Now that we have some experience with remote work, I was kind of hoping that we would normalize "stay at home if you have a cold -- either WFH or just take sick leave." But that very clearly isn't going to happen, at least not in my little corner of the world. My institution has intensified its hostility toward non-standard work arrangements, and I know a lot of other universities have done the same recently.)
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
No, the employee is, which is why they are calling off and now leaving the hospital even shorter than they already are.
It's just another inevitable fallout of this mess.
This was an enormous problem at the beginning of this pandemic because family members were afraid to be around the kids let alone daycares actually being open.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
See but the problem is, how can you tell they are normal cold symptoms vs Covid? If you have access to a rapid test, why not just test them?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Multiple posts after I brought this up have also shown how quarantining these kids by closing their daycares will also severely strain the healthcare system by keeping doctors/nurses out of work. The argument can be made that all the testing just makes things worse. The domino effect of it all.
The positive child was already in this class on Monday and Tuesday. They’ve already been in contact with every other child, the teacher(s), other kids in the daycare. Those kids have already gone home to their parents. Who’ve already gone back to work for three days. The teachers went home to their kids. Don’t you see how futile it is?
Nobody feels sick? Everyone pretty much keeps doing their thing.
What did the testing accomplish other than straining the families and the businesses they work for? Limiting the services they can provide to the economy. Why wouldn’t we all have been better served if that parent would have just kept their sick child at home?
If you’re sick? Stay home. When you feel better come back and wear a mask. Or wear one all the time if that’s your thing. I’m just not seeing the necessity for the incessant testing anymore. The waving of the Covid flag to wipe out all your exposures too because of some social contract none of us signed isn’t making sense to me anymore. Not with vaccines and boosters readily available for anyone that wants them.
I realize I’m in the minority with this line of thinking. I’m not trying to sound indifferent toward the health of others or like I’m not empathetic regarding what healthcare workers are going through. I’m not.
I just believe, at this point, the protocols are making things worse. Much worse.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/12/covid-omicron-less-severe-hospital-stays-shorter-at-large-california-health-system.html
Study from a CA health system
Omicron less severe for vaxxed, unvaxxed, reinfected.
Death rate 91% lower than Delta
Hospitalization 74% lower
Hospital stay 3 days shorter
Nobody put on ventilator
Study from a CA health system
Omicron less severe for vaxxed, unvaxxed, reinfected.
Death rate 91% lower than Delta
Hospitalization 74% lower
Hospital stay 3 days shorter
Nobody put on ventilator
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
YLE's State of Affairs: Pediatrics and Omicron
Bottom line: Children are not spared by this virus. Omicron has certainly put this in overdrive. We cannot discount the numerator. But we also cannot ignore the denominator—overall healthy children fare much better than adults.
There are a lot of people making really difficult decisions right now (parents, teachers, policymakers, etc.). As a parent of 2 under 3, a recent Slate headline (and article) resonated with me: “The Agony of Parents With Kids Under 5”. This landscape is complicated and hard. We need to approach everyone’s decisions with empathy and recognize how (and why) people may put more emphasis on numerators or denominators.
Bottom line: Children are not spared by this virus. Omicron has certainly put this in overdrive. We cannot discount the numerator. But we also cannot ignore the denominator—overall healthy children fare much better than adults.
There are a lot of people making really difficult decisions right now (parents, teachers, policymakers, etc.). As a parent of 2 under 3, a recent Slate headline (and article) resonated with me: “The Agony of Parents With Kids Under 5”. This landscape is complicated and hard. We need to approach everyone’s decisions with empathy and recognize how (and why) people may put more emphasis on numerators or denominators.
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