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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (20 Viewers)

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jamny said:
This has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. People still say that the vaccine was never meant to prevent catching covid and that just isn't true. Why they said it originally is beyond the point. People should not still be saying it today. 
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Well actually it shows that it was not initially expected to be the case that this would be a sterilizing vaccine that would prevent infection (rather than a flu shot type), and they were pleasantly surprised to have 90%+ effectiveness.  Then the CDC and administration botched the communication because they set a goal to have the country 100% normal by the 4th of July.  And now we are dealing with the fallout of that communication and ensuing confusion and various stances -- including the point you are trying to make here.

 
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jobarules said:
Its almost like people don't know how to read. This is now the second time you completely missed the point.
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I'll be sure to revisit this once the Omicron specific vaccine comes out. I'm guessing the same types of comments will be made again.

 
Welp, after dodging it for almost 2 years, I tested positive for Covid on Wednesday. I got both the rapid test and the PCR, but only the latter returned a positive result. Went back today to get tested again, now the rapid test is positive. I had been feeling slightly sick, but it’s not the worst I’ve ever felt. My sister and her family all tested positive earlier this past week, and my family(plus our parents) had spent time together on Saturday, before anyone knew, and they were all vaccinated, whereas I wasn’t. Rookie mistake, I know, but I also know that I likely caught it from my niece, who I was holding for a bit(she’s 3 and has mild cerebral palsy, but she’s doing fine), and she is in the habit of wanting to smell people and things, but at any rate, I’m sidelined from work for a week. As far as symptoms go,  slight cough, sore throat, some body aches, but not a lot else.

 
I caught it a few weeeks back. Didn’t bother to get tested. Body aches extreme chills fatigue and sinus pressure

dayquil killed it a couple days later

 
The good news is the syptoms seem to be way more reduced nowadays and hospital trips way down.  Hopefully this will be just a flu very soon.

 
Sleestak said:
At first I only had GG on ignore, and like you with DJax it wasn't political.

I've since added quite a few, all due to their posting behavior in this thread.  They just can't let go of PSF-style interaction.  They come here to gaslight, then fight, and ultimately to provoke people into getting banned.  I come here for COVID info, and get it from the useful posters here - Terminal alone is worth the price of admission and there are many others who I happily read.

Engaging with or even reading [snipping post names - we all know who they are]?  NFW.  That would be voluntarily participating in asymmetric warfare.  My time has value.  Theirs?  I don't know how you guys do it.  For me, they are literally just speed bumps.  It feels great!
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I have no clue why people don’t use the ignore function liberally.  Do you people sit through commercials you have no interest in too?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
jamny said:
I'll be sure to revisit this once the Omicron specific vaccine comes out. I'm guessing the same types of comments will be made again.
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It is like the flu vaccine, where the formula needs updated to combat the strain(s) that are circulating that season.
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I'm hoping, too, that Omicron is something of an evolutionary plateau for SARS-CoV-2 -- IOW, that it has become difficult for future variants to outcompete Omicron. At least for a spell ... a year, two years. Five years would be great. The Omicron vaccine can then become the new "first shot" -- and one that won't be rendered obsolete quite as quickly.

 
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The frustration for me since this thing has been over since about March 2021, are the people that both insist it isn't and won't be, ever.  If getting a shot that more or less eliminates the possibility of two not even existing variants putting you down hard isn't over then I'm not sure what is.  The vaccine more or less ending this thing on sight is nothing short of a miracle.  

The massive failure was when once we knew the shots more or less ended this thing, was to insist on mask theater and all the other things that had nothing to do with vaccine adherence.  This gave the appearance that getting the shot didn't really end the virus, so people said, nah not gonna do the shot for whatever nonsense reasons as there was no stick, all carrot.  

Yeah, I'm sure masks work, good masks worked crappy masks worked sort of.  But with a shot the odds you need one is zero, and even if you have it and go out mask less once everyone has a shot, we are good.  This is why fighting against shot mandates was insanity and led us right here.  

Fact remains, if you got any variant after July 2021 and got seriously sick you were either dead to rights without the shot for some bad pre-existing, or you are a ####### and deserve what's coming.  Either way, your outcome was what was headed your way one way or the other.  It's time to let the rest of us people that did the right things move on and everyone else can go snort some horse paste.  

 
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culdeus said:
The frustration for me since this thing has been over since about March 2020, are the people that both insist it isn't and won't be, ever.  If getting a shot that more or less eliminates the possibility of two not even existing variants putting you down hard isn't over then I'm not sure what is.  The vaccine more or less ending this thing on sight is nothing short of a miracle.  

The massive failure was when once we knew the shots more or less ended this thing, was to insist on mask theater and all the other things that had nothing to do with vaccine adherence.  This gave the appearance that getting the shot didn't really end the virus, so people said, nah not gonna do the shot for whatever nonsense reasons as there was no stick, all carrot.  

Yeah, I'm sure masks work, good masks worked crappy masks worked sort of.  But with a shot the odds you need one is zero, and even if you have it and go out mask less once everyone has a shot, we are good.  This is why fighting against shot mandates was insanity and led us right here.  

Fact remains, if you got any variant after July 2020 and got seriously sick you were either dead to rights without the shot for some bad pre-existing, or you are a ####### and deserve what's coming.  Either way, your outcome was what was headed your way one way or the other.  It's time to let the rest of us people that did the right things move on and everyone else can go snort some horse paste.  
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Huh? Dont you mean 2021?

 
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Doug B said:
There's no maybe about it: If mere infection (independent of symptom severity) is the measuring stick, previous-infection immunity wanes just as vaccinated immunity wanes. I wouldn't consider someone who (a) had COVID in 2020 and (b) never got vaccinated to have any protection today against Omicron infection, specifically.

That said ... it is possible (probable?) that people who had COVID in 2020 will have long-lasting memory B cell and T cell response to current and future COVID infections. That should help prevent severe symptoms and hospitalizations in the event of an infection. Personally, I wouldn't want to lean too hard on that for too long ... but then I'm not able to get into the "don't want the vaccine, ever" headspace.
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You're right, I shouldn't have included the "maybe" as far as natural immunity waning.  It's more a question of how much and if/when it reaches a point where you're in the ballpark of being back to where you started.

Yes, it's tough to totally understand what people are thinking.  I'm weird in that I find people's thought processes interesting, so I've listened to what people at work who are willing to talk about this sort of thing have to say, and the vaccine hesitant/refuser types have some tendencies.  There's a political aspect to it of course, but I think a lot of it comes down to personality.  For instance, it's kind of surprising how many people just never go to the doctor ever : no checkups, just hope that injuries heal on their own, etc.  Those types definitely seem much more likely to want to stay unvaccinated.

Terminalxylem said:
...

But it’s really frustrating when people want to ignore the lion’s share of public health officials and infectious disease specialists in favor of fringe opinions. Most of those people devote their lives to studying science. They aren’t brainwashed, nor part of some multinational conspiracy to trick people into getting vaccinated.

...

Don’t get me wrong: natural immunity is certainly worth something, but it’s really hard to make blanket statements about it. Moreover, there aren’t good standards to predict it’s potency, including antibody testing, which is apparently being misused by some doctors.
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Yes, I can totally see how maddening that would be.  I really appreciate you lending your expertise to the thread.  I'm definitely guilty of not staying in my lane on this, but I've been following this from the beginning because it's such a central part of everyday life and I love looking at data and trying to solve problems.  I spent a day in Spring 2020 merging case rates with latitude and average monthly temperature lol.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who just can't stay away from the honeypot.

At the risk of beating a dead horse or unfairly Monday morning quarterbacking, I think my point on natural immunity is this.  Someone who has a natural proclivity to not want to be vaccinated gets covid, wants to wait longer on vaccination. 

Scenario A

Response : Well, you probably have some protection but we don't know how much.  Also, we can't just take your word for it.  We can run a test on you that will give us some idea about your immunity level for X dollars.  It's not perfect, and we still recommend vaccination.

Scenario B

Response : Get vaccinated or you'll kill us all.  [Repeat message in response to any pushback/questions]

Obviously that's hyperbole and kind of unfair, but my contention is that while Scenario B might get vaccination rates up faster, it's better for society as a whole to get closer to Scenario A.  Of course, again, that's easy for me to say.  I'm not manning an ER station, listening to 5G theories, or wrestling a spittle-flecked maskless lunatic on a plane.

 
jamny said:
Because it's inaccurate and misleading.
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Of all the misstatements made throughout the pandemic, that’s the one you find intolerably misleading?

As others have said, vaccine developers may or may not have thought sterilizing immunity was possible, but they understandably (and accurately) promoted the mRNA vaccine’s ability to eliminate infection. Not all vaccines work that well, nor are they expected to, so why wouldn’t they be enthusiastic about their potential? 

Just knowing about coronavirus’ ability to mutate shouldn’t have changed that message IMO. And a few people clinging to the early data also isn’t unforgivable, when considering all the other misinformation floating about the internet, little of which has seemed to ruffle your feathers.

The bottom line remains: Sterilizing or not, more people getting vaccinated is a good thing, with benefits far, far outweighing any risks. Bickering about how the vaccines’ role has evolved with the virus doesn’t really help, and arguably adds to vaccine hesitancy.

But to be clear, if you were in charge, how would you best summarize the goal(s) of vaccination, including boosters, both at introduction and today?

 
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Dr_Zaius said:
You're right, I shouldn't have included the "maybe" as far as natural immunity waning.  It's more a question of how much and if/when it reaches a point where you're in the ballpark of being back to where you started.

Yes, it's tough to totally understand what people are thinking.  I'm weird in that I find people's thought processes interesting, so I've listened to what people at work who are willing to talk about this sort of thing have to say, and the vaccine hesitant/refuser types have some tendencies.  There's a political aspect to it of course, but I think a lot of it comes down to personality.  For instance, it's kind of surprising how many people just never go to the doctor ever : no checkups, just hope that injuries heal on their own, etc.  Those types definitely seem much more likely to want to stay unvaccinated.

Yes, I can totally see how maddening that would be.  I really appreciate you lending your expertise to the thread.  I'm definitely guilty of not staying in my lane on this, but I've been following this from the beginning because it's such a central part of everyday life and I love looking at data and trying to solve problems.  I spent a day in Spring 2020 merging case rates with latitude and average monthly temperature lol.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who just can't stay away from the honeypot.

At the risk of beating a dead horse or unfairly Monday morning quarterbacking, I think my point on natural immunity is this.  Someone who has a natural proclivity to not want to be vaccinated gets covid, wants to wait longer on vaccination. 

Scenario A

Response : Well, you probably have some protection but we don't know how much.  Also, we can't just take your word for it.  We can run a test on you that will give us some idea about your immunity level for X dollars.  It's not perfect, and we still recommend vaccination.

Scenario B

Response : Get vaccinated or you'll kill us all.  [Repeat message in response to any pushback/questions]

Obviously that's hyperbole and kind of unfair, but my contention is that while Scenario B might get vaccination rates up faster, it's better for society as a whole to get closer to Scenario A.  Of course, again, that's easy for me to say.  I'm not manning an ER station, listening to 5G theories, or wrestling a spittle-flecked maskless lunatic on a plane.
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Good points.

Although scenario A should always be the better approach, it isn’t the most practical. We have limited resources in reality. It isn’t ideal to be devoting time and money testing everyone who had a cold, transiently thought something tasted funny, and is now using it as justification to drag their feet getting boosted. Especially when there is no single gold standard for immune testing, and healthcare providers are already inundated. While I don’t agree with scare tactics or bullying either, some level of paternalism probably works better on a population level.

 
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Terminalxylem said:
Great. Moving right along, how would you have phrased it better?
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I would say that they did tell us the vaccine would prevent COVID-19. 

I'm not sure how much more I can simplify this and I apologize to those that are done with it, but I'll try one more time.

Vaccine makers and media reports about the vaccine: "The vaccine will prevent COVID-19" 

Someone in this thread posts : "We were told the vaccine would prevent COVID-19"

Someone else replies (and this is the part I'm disputing) "No one ever said that. That's not how vaccines work, everyone knows that" 

 
Thanks to all for bringing the discussion back to the facts, issues, situations, etc and stopping the incessant need to make reference to individual people or “sides”. This thread, and the incredibly intelligent posters (too many to list!) in it, have been a great resource for so many of us.

This is why this community is so awesome.

 
AAABatteries said:
I have no clue why people don’t use the ignore function liberally.  Do you people sit through commercials you have no interest in too?
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I`m curious , what would cause you to ignore someone ? A personal attack? A difference of opinions? Someone who`s not as smart as you and its hard to have an intelligent discussion ?  Someone who asks questions? 

Ive never put anyone on ignore , i just scroll past if im not interested in what they say.

 
British PM Boris Johnson has announced the end of all measures introduced to combat the Omicron variant: forced masks on public transport and in shops, work from home guidance, and vaccine certificates

 
jamny said:
I would say that they did tell us the vaccine would prevent COVID-19. 

I'm not sure how much more I can simplify this and I apologize to those that are done with it, but I'll try one more time.

Vaccine makers and media reports about the vaccine: "The vaccine will prevent COVID-19" 

Someone in this thread posts : "We were told the vaccine would prevent COVID-19"

Someone else replies (and this is the part I'm disputing) "No one ever said that. That's not how vaccines work, everyone knows that" 
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 To borrow from DougB, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t help both posters understand:

“Yes, the vaccines prevented early strains of covid from causing infection entirely. But viruses mutate unpredictably, and that no longer appears to be the case. The good news is, vaccines still prevent severe illness and death for most people, much like older vaccines have done for other respiratory infections, including the flu.”

That's a valuable clarification, one that doesn’t contribute to vaccine hesitancy, or promote the idea we’re being manipulated.

Instead, you get upset about people posting some (arguably inconsequential) inaccurate info, while repeatedly mentioning your decision to remain unboosted. Less helpful.

 
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ZADO said:
I`m curious , what would cause you to ignore someone ? A personal attack? A difference of opinions? Someone who`s not as smart as you and its hard to have an intelligent discussion ?  Someone who asks questions? 

Ive never put anyone on ignore , i just scroll past if im not interested in what they say.
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I only have so many hours in the day and I’ve been around here a long time.  There’s peoples posts and opinions that I have zero interest in reading once I get to know them.  Using the ignore feature saves me time and noise.  Again, no clue why someone wouldn’t use it.  

 
AAABatteries said:
I only have so many hours in the day and I’ve been around here a long time.  There’s peoples posts and opinions that I have zero interest in reading once I get to know them.  Using the ignore feature saves me time and noise.  Again, no clue why someone wouldn’t use it.  
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I think it's important to read all perspectives even if I know the source is nonsense cause that source of nonsense is generally not isolated. There are other like minded people akin to them. Do I always read them? Oh, no. It's a day to day week to week month to month sorta thing. There are times when I am short on patience, already stressed, tired, or just short on time that i scroll right past it. I think knowing what's going on outside of my bubble is a good thing is all. Even if I know toxins pollute some of those pools. That's why it's vital to very selectively engage them. 

 
MAC_32 said:
I think it's important to read all perspectives even if I know the source is nonsense cause that source of nonsense is generally not isolated. There are other like minded people akin to them. Do I always read them? Oh, no. It's a day to day week to week month to month sorta thing. There are times when I am short on patience, already stressed, tired, or just short on time that i scroll right past it. I think knowing what's going on outside of my bubble is a good thing is all. Even if I know toxins pollute some of those pools. That's why it's vital to very selectively engage them. 
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This isn’t about perspectives, it’s about specific posters.  

 
AAABatteries said:
This isn’t about perspectives, it’s about specific posters.  
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I get that. And I don't fault you for doing what you do - sometimes I wonder why I don't. There are just many other like minded people that share similar asinine perspectives. I think it's important to sustain some level of awareness of that kinda...'special.'

 
culdeus said:
The frustration for me since this thing has been over since about March 2021, are the people that both insist it isn't and won't be, ever.  If getting a shot that more or less eliminates the possibility of two not even existing variants putting you down hard isn't over then I'm not sure what is.  The vaccine more or less ending this thing on sight is nothing short of a miracle.  

The massive failure was when once we knew the shots more or less ended this thing, was to insist on mask theater and all the other things that had nothing to do with vaccine adherence.  This gave the appearance that getting the shot didn't really end the virus, so people said, nah not gonna do the shot for whatever nonsense reasons as there was no stick, all carrot.  

Yeah, I'm sure masks work, good masks worked crappy masks worked sort of.  But with a shot the odds you need one is zero, and even if you have it and go out mask less once everyone has a shot, we are good.  This is why fighting against shot mandates was insanity and led us right here.  

Fact remains, if you got any variant after July 2021 and got seriously sick you were either dead to rights without the shot for some bad pre-existing, or you are a ####### and deserve what's coming.  Either way, your outcome was what was headed your way one way or the other.  It's time to let the rest of us people that did the right things move on and everyone else can go snort some horse paste.  
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By your logic, if everyone gets a flu shot then we cure the flu.  I subscribe to this great new insight and reality!

 
IC FBGCav said:
By your logic, if everyone gets a flu shot then we cure the flu.  I subscribe to this great new insight and reality!
Click to expand...


The fallacy here is that the flu shot is a best guess at what might be the dominant flu strain.  The Covid shot took dead aim at not only what we knew was it, but things about it that didn't even exist yet.  And worked spectacularly well.  Keep concern trolling though.

 
culdeus said:
The fallacy here is that the flu shot is a best guess at what might be the dominant flu strain.  The Covid shot took dead aim at not only what we knew was it, but things about it that didn't even exist yet.  And worked spectacularly well.  Keep concern trolling though.
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There`s that word again

Trolling

Whats up with using that word when people say something others dont agree with or dont like  ? 

It`s just another label in a society that has a love /hate relationship with labels ...so strange

 
Terminalxylem said:
 I’m not sure why you wouldn’t help both posters understand:

“Yes, the vaccines prevented early strains of covid from causing infection entirely. But viruses mutate unpredictably, and that no longer appears to be the case. The good news is, vaccines still prevent severe illness and death for most people, much like older vaccines have done for other respiratory infections, including the flu.”

That's a valuable clarification, one that doesn’t contribute to vaccine hesitancy, or promote the idea we’re being manipulated.

Instead, you get upset about people posting some (arguably inconsequential) inaccurate info, while repeatedly mentioning your decision to remain unboosted. Less helpful.
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That really bugs you that I'm taking my doctor's advice, as I’ve heard countless times, and not getting boosted. You just can't resist including a dig on that. It's cool, but we're done here.

 
jamny said:
That really bugs you that I'm taking my doctor's advice, as I’ve heard countless times, and not getting boosted. You just can't resist including a dig on that. It's cool, but we're done here.
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And it REALLY bugs you that some people said the vaccine will "prevent" transmission (won't rehash all of the important distinctions again).

Speaking of semantics, I'm pretty sure your doctor didn't actually advise you to not get boosted.  :shrug:

 
humpback said:
And it REALLY bugs you that some people said the vaccine will "prevent" transmission (won't rehash all of the important distinctions again).

Speaking of semantics, I'm pretty sure your doctor didn't actually advise you to not get boosted.  :shrug:
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You mistake my replying to everyone's comments as if I REALLY care about it. I would have been happy with just my original post without having to explain to everyone that misunderstood.

And I didn't say my doctor told me not to get the booster, he said I didn't need it. In fact I actually clarified that recently when joba said he knew someone whose doctor made that specific advice.

 
jamny said:
That really bugs you that I'm taking my doctor's advice, as I’ve heard countless times, and not getting boosted. You just can't resist including a dig on that. It's cool, but we're done here.
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I have no problem with you taking your doctor’s advice; I’ve only suggested you revisit the issue in the wake of omicron. Of course it’s your prerogative to ignore what I’ve said, though to be clear, I’m only restating what’s recommended by current guidelines.

But I do care if other people interpret opting out as standard of care, or worse yet, misinterpret his guidance out of context to foster anti-vaccine sentiment. 

 
Terminalxylem said:
I have no problem with you taking your doctor’s advice; I’ve only suggested you revisit the issue in the wake of omicron. Of course it’s your prerogative to ignore what I’ve said, though to be clear, I’m only restating what’s recommended by current guidelines.

But I do care if other people interpret opting out as standard of care, or worse yet, misinterpret his guidance out of context to foster anti-vaccine sentiment. 
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I've already told you that the advice was given in mid-December with omicron already known so please stop making it seem as if it was given pre-omicron. You just don't like that it goes against what you believe even though, before the advice was given, you were one of many to tell people not to make medical decisions on your own but to trust your doctor. That's what I have done. I never suggested anyone take it as an indication of what they should do and anyone that takes it to an anti-vax conclusion would do so anyway. That's not my problem. I am only passing along my experience as so many other people have.

 
Slight change of discussion - justified concern or ‘Karen’?

We just finished up a week + of playing the ‘do we have it’ game. Our Pre-K daughter got strong cold symptoms, my wife mild cold/flu symptoms, myself some chills and body aches and our 1st grader nothing at all. The pre-K teacher was out sick with COVID and around 15 of the students in that class also tested positive. Obviously our first thought was the teacher spread it to our daughter who gave it to us. The problem is that none of us tested positive on home tests or PCR. Despite that I still assume that we all got it.

Now recovered and bringing the girls back to school we’re seeing nothing change. The school claims that masks are required but they have a no-questions opt out for children, parents and students which result in 10-20% wearing masks. Upon the CDC changes and Omicron raging they sent out new guidelines for post exposure with kids - able to return to school after 5 days of asymptomatic but required to wear a mask for 5 days with no opt-out option. In the guidelines they even say that if they can’t wear a mask they can quarantine at home for those 5 days.

None of that is happening. Neither the kids nor the parents are following the rules and the teacher came back after 5 days even though she was clearly still symptomatic. She’s coughing all the time, pale and looks exhausted. She wears a flimsy cloth mask that she sometimes wears over her nose. Several of the students also seem to still be symptomatic.

At what point do you reach out and ask them why they’re not following the protocol they sent out or do you stay silent and hope for the best? My wife wants to raise the issue and/or pull her out for the next week or so. I’ve been talking her down from there but after re-reading the current protocols, I kinda want to call them out privately. The lack of restrictions and enforcement is due to them fearing pushback on masks from parents. I almost feel like someone needs to speak up on this side or nothing will ever enforced.

 
jamny said:
I've already told you that the advice was given in mid-December with omicron already known so please stop making it seem as if it was given pre-omicron. You just don't like that it goes against what you believe even though, before the advice was given, you were one of many to tell people not to make medical decisions on your own but to trust your doctor. That's what I have done. I never suggested anyone take it as an indication of what they should do and anyone that takes it to an anti-vax conclusion would do so anyway. That's not my problem. I am only passing along my experience as so many other people have.
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We’re going in circles here. Better to be done, as you said.

 
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