*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (9 Viewers)

[gianmarco]

It's been years, now, and not much has changed.

I'm not talking about Covid, either.

 

[The Commish]

It's been years, now, and not much has changed.

I'm not talking about Covid, either.

I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

 

[culdeus]

So when is the mass extinction event? I forgot when our DNA was supposed to explode or render us impotent.

 

[culdeus]

In other news people that got COVID pre vax suffer from more brain damage than we thought. The effects of this long term are only just now becoming apparent. And this discounts the people suffering other severe outcomes like me/cfs potentially for life.

My friends daughter who got COVID just month before the vax was available to under 12, has withdrawn from school and is for all intents a vegetable needing life long care. There is nearly no hope. They are going to basically witch doctors now.

 

[Hawks64]

In other news people that got COVID pre vax suffer from more brain damage than we thought. The effects of this long term are only just now becoming apparent. And this discounts the people suffering other severe outcomes like me/cfs potentially for life.

My friends daughter who got COVID just month before the vax was available to under 12, has withdrawn from school and is for all intents a vegetable needing life long care. There is nearly no hope. They are going to basically witch doctors now.

My god that is sad.

 

[General Malaise]

You all done drinking the kool-aid?

I'll bite. What kool-aid you talking about, exactly? Please elaborate if you care to.

Vax

Out of curiosity, how many folks that continue to post in here do you think have medical training, background or credentials? I know you seem to work in the medical field.....anybody else in here? Or are we just getting regurgitation from Joe Rogan and posts from Facebook?

In NC, to increase vaxx participation they had a lottery and gave a million dollars to 4 people that got the vaxx. Does this sound right to you on any level?

Sometimes, people are so stinking dense that even in the face of all the evidence, they still believe conspiracy theory hocum. Those kind of gullible people respond well to pie-in-the-sky promises of a lottery win as incentive.

For the public good, sometimes you throw a mini-lotto; sometimes you bite your tongue responding to someone on the internet.

So you think the mass consensus are right? So when Trump wins in a landslide, that is right?

People in power lied about the truth. It's that simple. We are too dumb to know the truth, right?

Let me ask you this then and I do appreciate your tangent about Rand Paul being an eye doctor doesn't mean he's qualified to speak about Covid as an expert on the matter. What is the current source of your information regarding Covid, vaccines, people in power lying, etc.....just curious what sources you get your information from currently. I'm curious what others read and listen to when their conclusions seem so assured.

 

[culdeus]

In other news people that got COVID pre vax suffer from more brain damage than we thought. The effects of this long term are only just now becoming apparent. And this discounts the people suffering other severe outcomes like me/cfs potentially for life.

My friends daughter who got COVID just month before the vax was available to under 12, has withdrawn from school and is for all intents a vegetable needing life long care. There is nearly no hope. They are going to basically witch doctors now.

My god that is sad.

When she got it the under 12s weren't approved, but she was going to camp. I feel like 12+ got the green light roughly as school started that year, but too late.

Our pediatrician was willing to off label the vax for 10+ for campers. I sent this info and they declined. I would never ever bring that up again but I wonder if they think about that.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's been years, now, and not much has changed.

I'm not talking about Covid, either.

I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

This assumes that people come to conclusions or positions based on facts/logic instead of feelings. And I think we know that, sadly, plenty of people irrationally anchor to feelings-based positions because of confirmation bias paired with wiring.

 

[The Commish]

It's been years, now, and not much has changed.

I'm not talking about Covid, either.

I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

This assumes that people come to conclusions or positions based on facts/logic instead of feelings. And I think we know that, sadly, plenty of people irrationally anchor to feelings-based positions because of confirmation bias paired with wiring.

Feelings dont replace facts.

 

[rockaction]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

 

[The Commish]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

 

[3C's]

Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

I'm going to go with no on that one.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.

For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.


* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actually made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disastrous in terms of social trust.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

He drops in every few months with similar rants. And just as quickly as he materializes, he disappears.

I’ve wasted time rebutting his mis-information, but he’s not interested. I do wonder why he keeps coming back though.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.

For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.


* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.

Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?

The virus changed, as did vaccine efficacy. That’s not a failure of the original messaging, unless you expected a public course in virology and vaccinology from the get-go.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.

For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.


* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.

Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?

The virus changed, as did vaccine efficacy. That’s not a failure of the original messaging, unless you expected a public course in virology and vaccinology from the get-go.

Pretty sure academic virologists were aware of viral evolution in 2020. They didn't just discover this.

 

[The Commish]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.

For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.


* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actually made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disastrous in terms of social trust.

I don't know why this is a problem all of a sudden. Relying on others seems to be a much bigger problem and illustrated quite well in this series of events. And I agree 100% with you on those institutions failing us, which is another reason I don't see it as a problem to do your own research via valid channels. It was rather simple to do here in the FFA for example. All one had to do was follow the link studies and the peer reviewed articles posted here ad nauseum....we didn't have to look far/hard for the info.

 

[rockaction]

We should just drop it today. We can acknowledge the commenter and his comments and draw our own conclusions about the root causes of his obdurate position.

I'm not even going to say how much weight I give everything all around. I think we should just drop it before you guys get popped or deleted or something worse. Peace, fellas. Have a good one.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

We should just drop it today. We can acknowledge the commenter and his comments and draw our own conclusions about the root causes of his obdurate position.

I'm not even going to say how much weight I give everything all around. I think we should just drop it before you guys get popped or deleted or something worse. Peace, fellas. Have a good one.

I think if we can't discuss vaccine efficacy without it getting "political," then this thread has run its course and should be closed down. The rest of society has collectively decided to memory-hole this entire experience, so maybe we should too. (I don't consider this topic political, but I'm just one poster. If others find this uncomfortable, I don't mind being outvoted.)

 

[rockaction]

We should just drop it today. We can acknowledge the commenter and his comments and draw our own conclusions about the root causes of his obdurate position.

I'm not even going to say how much weight I give everything all around. I think we should just drop it before you guys get popped or deleted or something worse. Peace, fellas. Have a good one.

I think if we can't discuss vaccine efficacy without it getting "political," then this thread has run its course and should be closed down. The rest of society has collectively decided to memory-hole this entire experience, so maybe we should too. (I don't consider this topic political, but I'm just one poster. If others find this uncomfortable, I don't mind being outvoted.)

Yeah, sorry. Please don't mistake my concern for considering myself authority. Just didn't want to see it descend into anything.

 

[Max Power]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

 

[Scoresman]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

 

[Joe Schmo]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

Agree!! Pre-covid we had work warriors, especially one of the senior partners, who would come in and spread their typhoid all over the place without a care for anyone else in the office. We bitched to him often and he would reply that the works gotta get done and he would shut his door. You'd figure after the pandemic taught us that masking and isolation helps prevent spread that we would stick to that model but I am certain senior jughead will go right back to the old ways. We are stoopid as a society sometimes.

 

[belljr]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

Agree!! Pre-covid we had work warriors, especially one of the senior partners, who would come in and spread their typhoid all over the place without a care for anyone else in the office. We bitched to him often and he would reply that the works gotta get done and he would shut his door. You'd figure after the pandemic taught us that masking and isolation helps prevent spread that we would stick to that model but I am certain senior jughead will go right back to the old ways. We are stoopid as a society sometimes.

Wasn't feeling 100% one day, was already in the office, slight cough but not crazy. Asked my manager hey I might be coming down with something ok if I just wfh this afternoon. He says if you are feeling that bad just take a sick day. So I stayed. So stupid

 

[The Commish]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

 

[Scoresman]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

 

[Scoresman]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

Nobody's expecting this. A simple of policy of work from home if you are sick but still able to work is fine. For those whose jobs cant be done remotely or those without sick leave, wear a mask if you must be in the office. This would apply to people who are sick but not sick enough that they cant work.

Those without symptoms is different and probably doesn't require a specific policy.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.

 

[the moops]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

Nobody's expecting this. A simple of policy of work from home if you are sick but still able to work is fine. For those whose jobs cant be done remotely or those without sick leave, wear a mask if you must be in the office. This would apply to people who are sick but not sick enough that they cant work.

Those without symptoms is different and probably doesn't require a specific policy.

As wrong as you were in the splitting appetizer thread you are completely spot on here

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.

Yeah, I would prefer that people just stay home if they're ill. But as you note, we've never really had that as a norm. Some of us need to accept that we tried that for a couple of years, and most of us preferred the old way.

This isn't a case of people being stupid. We knew how colds and other respiratory illnesses were spread in 2019, and we still know it now. The issue is that most people would just as soon deal with the occasional cold than miss work because they have the sniffles. It's fine to have different preferences than other folks, but at some point you kind of have to accept that society has spoken, and they went the other way.

 

[Scoresman]

Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.

If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.

For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.

Yeah, I would prefer that people just stay home if they're ill. But as you note, we've never really had that as a norm. Some of us need to accept that we tried that for a couple of years, and most of us preferred the old way.

This is my whole gripe. We went through a pandemic and learned some simple ways to help curb or limit spread of viruses, but for some reason we prefer the old way where everyone gets sick. This just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Max Power]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.

We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.

 

[Scoresman]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.

We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.

There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.

 

[Max Power]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.

We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.

There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.

Unfortunately government polices are never very nuanced. I do find it odd that someone can test positive and come to work that day if they don't feel sick. Are you of the opinion that person should have to stay home and test daily until they don't have covid?

I'm conflicted but if we're being honest most people don't even test for covid anymore.

 

[Scoresman]

We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.

I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.

It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.

On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.

We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.

There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.

Unfortunately government polices are never very nuanced. I do find it odd that someone can test positive and come to work that day if they don't feel sick. Are you of the opinion that person should have to stay home and test daily until they don't have covid?

I'm conflicted but if we're being honest most people don't even test for covid anymore.

Not really. It needs to be simple for people to understand and you cant have people testing forever. It's not just a COVID thing for me. Getting sick with anything sucks. Period. It's also bad for productivity for people to be spreading illness causing more people to get sick.

Simple policy: If you have symptoms and feel sick, either stay home or if you absolutely must be at work, wear a mask and stay away from people. That should be pretty easy for people to follow.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.

And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.

We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.

The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.

For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.


* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.

Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?

The virus changed, as did vaccine efficacy. That’s not a failure of the original messaging, unless you expected a public course in virology and vaccinology from the get-go.

Pretty sure academic virologists were aware of viral evolution in 2020. They didn't just discover this.

Knowing it exists, and predicting what will happen are two very, very different things.

Not every virus evolves to break through vaccination, and it wasn’t a foregone conclusion SARS-CoV-2 would do so either, even to the best virologists. And some of that trajectory was contingent upon vaccine uptake.

Moreover, scientific advancement is predicated on revising hypotheses, as new information becomes available. But among some people, hypothesis revision itself instills mistrust.

So how should public health officials communicated their uncertainty?

 

[The Commish]

SOME of us tried it for a couple years....thus the problem....it wasn't enough and we pretty much knew what was going to happen when not enough people jumped on board to do the right thing. This country's "work ethic" is wired differently than most of the rest of the world and it showed.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Nevermind - I'll let it go. No reason to rehash the same stuff.

 

[Rich Conway]

So when is the mass extinction event? I forgot when our DNA was supposed to explode or render us impotent.

Pretty sure that was booked for 2023. We're all just figments of your imagination.

 

[The Commish]

So how should public health officials communicated their uncertainty?

You didnt ask me, but the first thing they should have done was assume that people had a less than 3rd grade understanding of the immune system and educate everyone starting there. Then utilize the phrase "we dont know yet, but are working on getting the answers" WAY more than they did.

 

[jamny]

There were plenty of clear failures in communication, whether intentional or not, and they only have themselves to blame for the lack in trust going forward.

 

[Scoresman]

What’s dumb is that people are angry about the misinformation and taking it out on their own health.

“The government lied! I’m not getting vaccinated!”

“The government lied! I’m never wearing a mask again!”

 

[Terminalxylem]

There were plenty of clear failures in communication, whether intentional or not, and they only have themselves to blame for the lack in trust going forward.

Society is more and more distrustful of almost every institution - science, politics, religion, education, law enforcement, journalism/news reporting, you name it.

Have all institutions simultaneously become untrustworthy, or were they never worth our trust in the first place? Or has something changed about our expectations? What about our access to information?

Multiple factors are clearly in play, imo.

 

[LawFitz]

Have all institutions simultaneously become untrustworthy, or were they never worth our trust in the first place?

Always untrustworthy. Just unveiled by the internet.

How are you, doc?

 

[LawFitz]

Nevermind - I'll let it go. No reason to rehash the same stuff.

#VeryNecessary

 

[LawFitz]

I see this echo chamber chased away another divergent. :sadface:

How many folks do you now know who have died or are dying since last we spoke? I won't chroncile my list, but it's been no buenos...

 

[LawFitz]

Say his name... Ed Dowd...

https://twitter.com/DowdEdward

I know 90% of you in the chamber won't click, yet less read. But for the 10%, that do, blessings.

(Apologies and condolences to anyone here who has lost a loved one in the last couple years due to this absolute nonsense.)

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What’s dumb is that people are angry about the misinformation and taking it out on their own health.

“The government lied! I’m not getting vaccinated!”

“The government lied! I’m never wearing a mask again!”

I was first in line when my vaccination window opened up, and I've kept up to date (I think) on vaccination.

I just have enough pride that I don't like being lied to.

 

[sho nuff]

There were plenty of clear failures in communication, whether intentional or not, and they only have themselves to blame for the lack in trust going forward.

Society is more and more distrustful of almost every institution - science, politics, religion, education, law enforcement, journalism/news reporting, you name it.

Have all institutions simultaneously become untrustworthy, or were they never worth our trust in the first place? Or has something changed about our expectations? What about our access to information?

Multiple factors are clearly in play, imo.

That is an issue I have with it all. Institution x became untrustworthy...so I am going to put all my trust in these other non-tested institutions x, y, and z eventhough they have always been untrustworthy and untested.