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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (8 Viewers)

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Terminalxylem said:
They’re also on my sh!tlist.

But it isn’t as if the US is blame-free in creating disease outbreaks due to the disgusting and inhumane conditions of industrial lifestock production.
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I dont mean for the disease. China is who gobbled up all the masks and stopped shipping as well. 

They even convinced the lds to send them a plane full. 

 
Otis said:
Understood, and folks should do whatever makes them comfortable.  This conversation started with people killing a poster who went to a store for food.  Which seemed unreasonable to me.  I also was asking the questions about wiping down packages to understand whether it's something that other of us need to be doing, because we haven't been (because I haven't seen any authority suggesting we should).

To be clear, I'm not suggesting others shouldn't do it.  Of course, do what works for you.
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Thanks.  I realize we may be a bit paranoid about the whole thing, but given our family's history, you can kind of see why we wouldn't be interested in taking any chances, no matter how remote.  As far as going out to the store, the thing I'd be most conscious of (if I were going out in public, that is) is the things I touch.  Door handles? Credit card machines?  Paper money?  The counter? Handrails?  We touch things almost without thinking about it.  And even assuming I furiously wash my hands as soon as I walk in the door, what have I touched on the way home?  The steering wheel (or bike handles)?  The car door?  My face?  My kid? Again, you don't want to be too paranoid, but you also want to be cognizant of those things.  But also agree that berating folks for engaging in low risk behavior isn't particularly helpful.  Save your ire for the spring breakers.

 
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Otis said:
What's your basis for that?  There's an article linked above with a doctor in essence saying exactly that.  :shrug:
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In my information triage, I've come to the conclusion that there is a heightened risk. I see the numbers in NY, Italy, Seattle... I know human nature, and then extrapolate. From there add a dash of better safe than sorry, and that is my personal conclusion based on contradicting over-information.

FWIW, with that, I have chosen the heightened risk doesn't warrant me not going out at all. I'll go to pick up food. I'd go to a coffee spot/bodega to get coffee and get out a few minutes a day.  I'll try to order goods, but if I need something, I'll go to the pharmacy or grocery store and just be cautious. BUT, I changed a meeting with two other people to a phone call, because while the chance for me to have been exposed is very low, it's there... and while on the off chance I get it I should get well, the person with whom I was meeting is at risk.  So combined, that's enough heightening of risk to take precaution.

In the end, I look at it like that: In my personal best guesstimation, I have a slightly higher chance to get this if exposed to it than the flu.  It seems to have at the best a nature that is a bit worse than the flu, with the unknown of some potential severe effects. Now, everyone seems to be taking some level of precaution, so that's important, but during flu season I'd give it a 50% chance I'd get the flu.  And sorta live life.  Here, I'm taking a bit more precaution along with anyone else, because I'm not willing to take the same chance as if it were the seasonal flu, or a cold going around.

Again though, that's just my conclusions based on extrapolations from incomplete yet over information.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
At the point where I put more money back in the market - I am going to keep a minimum of 5-6 years living cash/short term investments, so there is less possibility of angst over the need for a quick recovery.  
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If you have 5-6 years of living cash, why would you have any angst over a quick recovery?

 
Koya said:
In my information triage, I've come to the conclusion that there is a heightened risk. I see the numbers in NY, Italy, Seattle... I know human nature, and then extrapolate. From there add a dash of better safe than sorry, and that is my personal conclusion based on contradicting over-information.
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This.

 
Otis said:
Jefferson the Caregiver said:
I use this thread as a barometer of the steps I need to take.  Will never get to the extremes as some here but do want to be more cautious than general population.

Feel like middle ground is where I need to be. Be sensible that's all.
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That's kind of where I'm trying to be.  Sometimes difficult to figure out where "sensible" is at any given time.
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Same.   I probably fall on the conservative side of the curve, but I'm definitely not on the fringe.   My goal is to not increase the risks to others, and I am observing the recommendations of the CDC as far as social distancing goes.   Luckily, I can go golfing or go out on my boat without ever interacting with another person.   Two days ago I went to a friend's house for a barbecue.  Four of us sat in the backyard and observed distancing recommendations.   I get that some in here will freak out about that.   

 
NotSmart said:
The hoarders are a very small part of the problem. Hoarders got their masks from retail.

It's beyond criminal, literally beyond criminal, that national planning was not in place to have a huge stockpile of PPE in place for a pandemic, as well as immediate planning for procurement and manufacturing escalation at the first sign of a pandemic.

What was our NSC national pandemic planning team thinking?

Oh yeah... That team was completely dismantled in 2018.

2018.

  :(
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Good point. There’s a lot of blame to go around.

 
Koya said:
In my information triage, I've come to the conclusion that there is a heightened risk. I see the numbers in NY, Italy, Seattle... I know human nature, and then extrapolate. From there add a dash of better safe than sorry, and that is my personal conclusion based on contradicting over-information.

FWIW, with that, I have chosen the heightened risk doesn't warrant me not going out at all. I'll go to pick up food. I'd go to a coffee spot/bodega to get coffee and get out a few minutes a day.  I'll try to order goods, but if I need something, I'll go to the pharmacy or grocery store and just be cautious. BUT, I changed a meeting with two other people to a phone call, because while the chance for me to have been exposed is very low, it's there... and while on the off chance I get it I should get well, the person with whom I was meeting is at risk.  So combined, that's enough heightening of risk to take precaution.

In the end, I look at it like that: In my personal best guesstimation, I have a slightly higher chance to get this if exposed to it than the flu.  It seems to have at the best a nature that is a bit worse than the flu, with the unknown of some potential severe effects. Now, everyone seems to be taking some level of precaution, so that's important, but during flu season I'd give it a 50% chance I'd get the flu.  And sorta live life.  Here, I'm taking a bit more precaution along with anyone else, because I'm not willing to take the same chance as if it were the seasonal flu, or a cold going around.

Again though, that's just my conclusions based on extrapolations from incomplete yet over information.
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Right, sounds like we are handling it the same way.  I basically just do what the Cuomo press conferences and the doctors on TV say to do.  :shrug:  

 
Jefferson the Caregiver said:
I use this thread as a barometer of the steps I need to take.  Will never get to the extremes as some here but do want to be more cautious than general population.

Feel like middle ground is where I need to be. Be sensible that's all.
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That's where I'm at.  I wash my hands much more than normal, and operate as though my home is a safe space (just me and Cujo). If I go to the store, I play a loop in my head - DO NOT TOUCH MY FACE.

 
msommer said:
The indian Malaria mosquitoes/parasites are resistant to chloroquine and have been for 20 odd years. They use other products now. IIRC @Terminalxylem mentioned already that only in central America was chloroquine still being used.
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That’s the only region it is still effective against Falciparum malaria, the deadliest kind. To be fair, I don’t know if it is prescribed anyway.

 
Crap getting real now. No flags in the holes at the golf course to keep everyone from touching it. Lol. 
 

Home Depot packed with people stocking up for spring projects. Worker wearing nitrile gloves . Xs on the ground to stand in line 6  feet apart no one paying attention to. One guy wearing a respirator, everyone else acting normal. 

 
shader said:
Ok? Weird thread to pontificate on your extraordinarily good financial situation?
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:confused:   I'm retired.  Protecting the nest egg and all.  

ETA:  sorry, there is a lot of discussion in the stock thread - yeah, my comments belong there (actually thought I posted it there - apologies)

 
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gianmarco said:
I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating with this recent discussion in here.

There's lots of risk and reward we have to weigh with all our decisions.  There's individual (family) risk/reward as well as overall risk/reward.

The chances of going out for a quick bagel and coffee and picking up the virus is relatively small if you practice social distancing.  But it's not zero.  The problem is magnified when everyone does the same thing and it continues to spread.  Slower than normal behavior, but it still spreads.  Where the ideal spot on that spectrum is, none of us know.  So, it's up to us to try and limit as much as we can.  It sucks staying at home constantly.  If you have to get out for stuff, make it focused and try to accomplish as much as you can so that you can limit future travel outside as best you can.  Be reasonable.

But, the best way to think about it is to assume that YOU are infected.  Assume you have it and your behavior is potentially passing it onto others.  Stop thinking about where you might be catching it.  When you go out for that bagel or whatever it may be, everything YOU have touched is now a potential to pass onto someone else.  There are untold numbers of people, especially in a place like NYC that have the virus and don't have any symptoms and have no idea.  Every one of those trips outside is a spread.  If any of the people that have passed this on to others knew what they had, they likely would have acted differently.

So, assume you have it and try limiting your exposure to others.  If we ALL do that, we have a chance to slow this down further. 
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Excellent, excellent post.

Hopefully using the alternate perspective you described will be the key that gets some people to reconsider what trips are for nice to have stuff vs. must have.

 
Otis said:
Me and the rest of the free world. 

Seriously, has the CDC or others told us to do this whole thing with wiping down/cooking in the sun all the mail, and boxes, and stuff from the grocery store?  Only place I've seen it is from some posters here.  
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People are going overboard. Social distancing, cough and hand hygiene are enough.

It's hard to tell people they're wrong to take additional measures, because you can never say with 100% certainty the transmission risk for all activities/exposures. Reminds me of people worrying about toilet seat and mosquito transmission of HIV.

 
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Statorama said:
Always choose evidence over hysteria
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This is the first thing I read when I woke up this morning.  It takes about half an hour, give or take.  

Its certainly a contrarian view to what is mostly being put out in this thread.  Most in here will likely poke a lot of holes in it to support their own theories and prognostications.

The problem with data is that it can be manipulated to fit many different viewpoints.  

I'm not sure where I stand on it all.  I know I am taking extra precautions and when I went out to buy a car today, I limited future exposure by buying 2.

 
My Saturday morning soup kitchen has been designated an essential service by the Mayor’s office. We do the best we can to follow guidelines. Sanitize, gloves & N95s for all volunteers. Guests sanitize as they come in. Instead of all-you-can-eat sit down, breakfast is grab n go.

Setup the food pantry in a larger space so volunteers could be spaced out instead of the usual shoulder to shoulder production line. We’ve been doing it this way for last two weeks.

Attendance is down from the usual 650-800 to 390 last week to 263 today. One thing I noticed is we had 30 first timers sign up for a food pantry ID. On a normal full weekend, that might be 5-10. Many today were Hispanic males with no IDs and I needed a translator. I’m guessing a lot of those men were restaurant workers or deliverymen who lost their job recently.

 
Just ran to the store...    if I didn't watch the news I'd have no idea this was actually happening.   Everything seems totally normal, tons of cars and people out.     

And they're about to put our state under martial law or something tonight, lol.

 
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eoMMan said:
Oooh, what about your food items?  Did you wipe down each item before you put it in your fridge?  That Land O Lakes butter you grabbed might have been touched on the outside by another customer with Covid-19.
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Just got back from the grocery. Removed all perishables from the car and did, in fact, wipe with them down with alcohol before putting them into the fridge. Non-perishables are still in the car to sit in the hot car for a bit— will bring them in later.

A week ago, I’d have said that was overkill. Probably is. But I’m not living for myself these days, most especially now.

 
Doug B said:
Just got back from the grocery. Removed all perishables from the car and did, in fact, wipe with them down with alcohol before putting them into the fridge. Non-perishables are still in the car to sit in the hot car for a bit— will bring them in later.

A week ago, I’d have said that was overkill. Probably is. But I’m not living for myself these days, most especially now.
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Why does sitting in a hot car matter?

 
USA Today opinion piece from today:

We need an immediate five-week national lockdown to defeat coronavirus in America

I am an MIT-trained physicist and complexity scientist who studies pandemics. I have warned about global pandemics due to increasing travel for 15 years. I recommended community based monitoring of symptoms to stop Ebola in West Africa in 2014, and it worked. The fastest and even the only way to contain COVID-19 in the United States is a five-week national lockdown.

Closing schools, bars and movie theaters are good measures, but not enough. Our relaxed approach to social distancing is insufficient to stop the exponential growth of COVID-19. Until Americans consistently adopt strong social distancing recommendations — a lockdown — the disease will continue to spread exponentially.

...

 
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DrJ said:
I don't think they are gonna win either.    I suspect we all look back on this and say "wow, we crashed our economy for that?    Thanks a lot crazies".     
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If we’re saying that, it’s because the measures being taken worked. 

 
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Caesar said:
This is the first thing I read when I woke up this morning.  It takes about half an hour, give or take.  

Its certainly a contrarian view to what is mostly being put out in this thread.  Most in here will likely poke a lot of holes in it to support their own theories and prognostications.

The problem with data is that it can be manipulated to fit many different viewpoints.  

I'm not sure where I stand on it all.  I know I am taking extra precautions and when I went out to buy a car today, I limited future exposure by buying 2.
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What is the takeaway from the article?

I, like you, am not sure what to make of a lot of this.  But I figure I'll put it in the hands of the experts and those folks who are telling the public what to do.  :shrug:

 
NotSmart said:
USA Today opinion piece from today:

We need an immediate five-week national lockdown to defeat coronavirus in America

I am an MIT-trained physicist and complexity scientist who studies pandemics. I have warned about global pandemics due to increasing travel for 15 years. I recommended community based monitoring of symptoms to stop Ebola in West Africa in 2014, and it worked. The fastest and even the only way to contain COVID-19 in the United States is a five-week national lockdown.

Closing schools, bars and movie theaters are good measures, but not enough. Our relaxed approach to social distancing is insufficient to stop the exponential growth of COVID-19. Until Americans consistently adopt strong social distancing recommendations — a lockdown — the disease will continue to spread exponentially.

...
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He's prob right, better to just rip of the band aid.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Otis said:
Me and the rest of the free world. 

Seriously, has the CDC or others told us to do this whole thing with wiping down/cooking in the sun all the mail, and boxes, and stuff from the grocery store?  Only place I've seen it is from some posters here.  
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People are going overboard. Social distancing, cough and hand hygiene are enough.

Its hard to tell people they wrong to take additional measures, because you can never say with 100% certainty the transmission risk for all activities/exposures. Reminds me of people worrying about toilet seat and mosquito transmission of HIV.
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I get what you're saying......but if HIV had infected 300,000 people in its first 3 months of existence, I don't think anyone would be saying that it's overboard to wipe down toilet seats.

 
DrJ said:
I don't think they are gonna win either.    I suspect we all look back on this and say "wow, we crashed our economy for that?    Thanks a lot crazies".     
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Yeah, this is the cavalier attitude that’s the problem.  Not a take out bagel.

 
NotSmart said:
USA Today opinion piece from today:

We need an immediate five-week national lockdown to defeat coronavirus in America

I am an MIT-trained physicist and complexity scientist who studies pandemics. I have warned about global pandemics due to increasing travel for 15 years. I recommended community based monitoring of symptoms to stop Ebola in West Africa in 2014, and it worked. The fastest and even the only way to contain COVID-19 in the United States is a five-week national lockdown.

Closing schools, bars and movie theaters are good measures, but not enough. Our relaxed approach to social distancing is insufficient to stop the exponential growth of COVID-19. Until Americans consistently adopt strong social distancing recommendations — a lockdown — the disease will continue to spread exponentially.

...
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And then once those 5 weeks are up, unless absolutely nobody has it, it will once again start to spread exponentially...   you can't eliminate this.    It's a part of life now.    

 
Otis said:
What is the takeaway from the article?

I, like you, am not sure what to make of a lot of this.  But I figure I'll put it in the hands of the experts and those folks who are telling the public what to do.  :shrug:
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Yep, that’s a good approach. 

 
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