*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (13 Viewers)

[huthut]

Dumb question about masks, but is there any reason you cannot reuse the disposable face shields (the common ones, similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-blue-50pcs-Breathable-Comfortable-Protection/dp/B085XQM7D9) if you have them on a rotation?  I have about 15 of them in my car glove box, and just rotate them so they have a week+ to "sterilize" in my fairly warm car. It seems like they would still do their job of blocking droplets and such? 

There really should be a temporary law where all people older than 5 should have a mask or get fined, even when out on your porch. I realize that is overly broad, but then you don't need to worry about exceptions and then no one can use the excuse that it makes them look "weak" or whatever other partisan reason there is, since everyone is effected equally.

 

[the moops]

 There really should be a temporary law where all people older than 5 should have a mask or get fined, even when out on your porch. I realize that is overly broad, but then you don't need to worry about exceptions and then no one can use the excuse that it makes them look "weak" or whatever other partisan reason there is, since everyone is effected equally.

Yea, this is way too much friend. I am on the overly cautious side on this thing, but I don't wear a mask when outdoors at all. And I definitely wouldn't even think about wearing one on my own property

 

[huthut]

Yea, this is way too much friend. I am on the overly cautious side on this thing, but I don't wear a mask when outdoors at all. And I definitely wouldn't even think about wearing one on my own property

I don't wear one when I am outside walking around either, but this is a way to limit exceptions. What is the line? How will someone know if you are in front of your house, or walking down your street vs a street that is 2 miles away from your house. Just make it a forced routine to put on a mask when you walk out the front door and you don't have to worry about the exact population density of people walking around in some suburb or whatever.

 

[jamny]

I've enjoyed going out to eat and drinks here in Boise. Pretty much all staff wear masks and some gloves, tables mostly spread out. No customers ever wear masks. I think they should require masks until you get to your seat and anytime not at your table.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

It seems to be a solid hypothesis that masks work. If 90% of the people wore masks 90% of the time when out of the house, it seems like that would drop the rate of transmission below 1 everywhere. I say hypothesis because I don't have the proof, but I believe there's enough information out there to confirm this hypothesis as true. If it is true, it should be an all out blitz to promote this, because way too many people aren't getting the message. 

It's been a typical refrain in this country to not want to do what works with this virus. SIP, social distancing, masks, testing, it's the same pushback.

Knowledge: "Wearing masks is the most effective way to reduce the spread of the virus. Everyone should proudly mask up and we can save the country and the economy."

U.S. "Yeah we're not doing that."

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Coronavirus: Florida sets another record with 1,902 new cases of COVID-19

This could be due to more testing and the opening of the economy and the recent protests. Someone needs to do a deeper dive into the data.

5.3% positive rate, according to the Testing tab on your state dashboard. That's good, IMO. But without tracking the day to day, I'm not sure which direction it's heading trend-wise, so that would be the thing to look at for a deeper dive. 

For Louisiana, we are at 9.47%. We started at around 20% and it has steadily declined over time as testing increased. We just finally dipped below 10% in the last week.

We are at ~470K tests. FL is at ~1.3M tests. Just for comparison.

 

[jobarules]

I still don't think they're needed outdoors for almost all activities. I guess outdoor crowds, like at a MLB game or a park concert or something.

I can't even imagine sitting in the bleachers in the middle of a day game in July with the sun beating down on you with a mask on for 4 hours. A lot of people would pass out.

 

[Doug B]

I can't even imagine sitting in the bleachers in the middle of a day game in July with the sun beating down on you with a mask on for 4 hours. A lot of people would pass out.

With N95s, maybe. There are face coverings that would be fine for extended wear outdoors in hot weather. Construction of the face covering matters -- the material doesn't have to be dense or coarse, and it doesn't have to fit like skin-tight Spandex against your face.

EDIT: Of course, with pro sports in an open-air stadium, it might all be academic. They'll probably keep capacity down enough to where all patrons have enough space around them to not need face coverings.

 

[Doug B]

Dumb question about masks, but is there any reason you cannot reuse the disposable face shields (the common ones, similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-blue-50pcs-Breathable-Comfortable-Protection/dp/B085XQM7D9) if you have them on a rotation?  I have about 15 of them in my car glove box, and just rotate them so they have a week+ to "sterilize" in my fairly warm car. It seems like they would still do their job of blocking droplets and such? 

I haven't used those kinds of masks, so I am not sure. I did have a few N95s early on, one of which I used about a dozen times. I left in the car when not in use to let it "sanitize" on the dashboard in the warm car (we were already hitting the 80s in early March).

The last few times I wore it, the elastic had gotten so loose that the mask moved with my breath -- noticeable gaps whenever I exhaled.

So I'd worry first and foremost about the elastic earloops on the kind of mask your asking about -- will those loops hold up over time?

 

[Redwes25]

Forget it, he's teflon in here 

They tried it, hardly any got used, they tore them all down. Yes it will work, will anyone outfit the Javits Center again? Only cost someone a couple million to set up and it didn't get used. Or the hospital ships we dispatched to San Fran & NYC that never got used. 

Javits actually got used as around a 1000 patients were treated there and I am glad it was not used more.  One thing about its usage though was it was for Manhattan that didn't get hit really hard.   The poorer sections of Queens and Brooklyn had the real brunt of the crisis and those hospitals ended up being swamped and over capacity.  

It was the hospital ships that didn't get used and honestly they were not a good place for Covid patients and basically were a publicity stunt.   

 

[Keerock]

It seems to be a solid hypothesis that masks work. If 90% of the people wore masks 90% of the time when out of the house, it seems like that would drop the rate of transmission below 1 everywhere. I say hypothesis because I don't have the proof, but I believe there's enough information out there to confirm this hypothesis as true. If it is true, it should be an all out blitz to promote this, because way too many people aren't getting the message. 

It's been a typical refrain in this country to not want to do what works with this virus. SIP, social distancing, masks, testing, it's the same pushback.

Knowledge: "Wearing masks is the most effective way to reduce the spread of the virus. Everyone should proudly mask up and we can save the country and the economy."

U.S. "Yeah we're not doing that."

Most people hate being told what to do...

 

[RCon]

Most people hate being told what to do...

But those same people wear shirts and shoes without complaint when they go to the store.  That part baffles me.

By the way, @Doug B doing yeoman's work in here.

 

[huthut]

I haven't used those kinds of masks, so I am not sure. I did have a few N95s early on, one of which I used about a dozen times. I left in the car when not in use to let it "sanitize" on the dashboard in the warm car (we were already hitting the 80s in early March).

The last few times I wore it, the elastic had gotten so loose that the mask moved with my breath -- noticeable gaps whenever I exhaled.

So I'd worry first and foremost about the elastic earloops on the kind of mask your asking about -- will those loops hold up over time?

The face shields are not really air tight anyway, I thought the main benefit was just making it so you could not project virus across the room   . I keep them in the glovebox so they don't get UV damaged, but so far the loops seem ok. 

 

[Slapdash]

That's great news.  It's one of many reasons why the NE is showing a clear decline in cases, and the South is showing a clear rise in cases.

If I go to the store here in TN, it's 80% without masks.  I can't speak for Texas, Florida, Georgia, NC, Alabama etc.  But I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's nowhere near 100%

Went to the ABC store here in Charlotte today. Mask coverage is about 50/50 (including one dude without who got way too close  )

 

[glock]

Most people hate being told what to do...

Well, I'd like to think that having the knowledge might change that to "many"...

 

[TheWinz]

Alot of talk about record numbers of cases in some states.  Cases don't overwhelm anything.  Hospitalizations and deaths do.

 

[jplvr]

I tried arguing for a mask requirement when opening back up, but I remember being met with resistance based on mask ineffectiveness. I think it's too late to have a discussion on it now. The genie is out of the bottle, and people aren't going to listen anymore, unfortunately. I think masks work. I was playing a game during lock downs, talking to a guy from Taiwan regularly, and he sold me on mask effectiveness pretty early on. This probably isn't going to be a huge issue with Covid, but there will be other viruses, and we need to get people more used to wearing masks like people in Asian countries have already accepted as part of life.

Here's a tweet showing a pretty flat progression in positive testing rates in Florida. Numbers are up, but according to this, it's mostly due to more testing.

https://twitter.com/Alicia_Smith19/status/1271471873579274240?s=20

I agree the hospitalization rates are what we should be focused on, and not just positive tests or even deaths. Until there is a vaccine, the only thing we can do is keep people from dying because we didn't have the ability to care for them. That being said, I heard at least one Tampa hospital has a pretty full ICU with Covid patients.

 

[Statorama]

News you can use: COVID-19 infection risk low for people who perform CPR

Someone collapses with a cardiac arrest nearby -- in the COVID-19 era, do you dare to assist?

Here's some reassuring -- and potentially lifesaving -- news: You're at low risk for coronavirus infection if you perform CPR on someone in cardiac arrest, new research shows.

 

[Biff84]

Alot of talk about record numbers of cases in some states.  Cases don't overwhelm anything.  Hospitalizations and deaths do.

Yes but many states are also seeing record numbers of hospitalizations too. Most cases are due to people showing symptoms. A rise in cases is likely an early indicator that a rise in hospitalizations is coming.

Trends in percent positive can give context to the case numbers. A trend down likely means that more extensive testing, possibly due to contract tracing. A trend up is concerning either due to under testing or increasing cases.

 

[Blick]

News you can use: COVID-19 infection risk low for people who perform CPR

I’m no doctor, but I doubt many bystanders have equipment for hands only CPR. 

 

[TheWinz]

Yes but many states are also seeing record numbers of hospitalizations too. Most cases are due to people showing symptoms. A rise in cases is likely an early indicator that a rise in hospitalizations is coming.

Trends in percent positive can give context to the case numbers. A trend down likely means that more extensive testing, possibly due to contract tracing. A trend up is concerning either due to under testing or increasing cases.

So report that, not the record number of cases.  If we tested everyone all at once, every state would have a new record number of cases.

 

[Courtjester]

The 1st jury trial attempted in the US since the outbreak was last week and had to be stopped because the clerk got Covid. Happened in Minnesota. I can't imagine how anyone would want to serve on jury duty at this point. 

 

[the moops]

The 1st jury trial attempted in the US since the outbreak was last week and had to be stopped because the clerk got Covid. Happened in Minnesota. I can't imagine how anyone would want to serve on jury duty at this point. 

My wife was on call this past week for jury duty here in MN. Had to check in online night before and were told if you had to come in. Had to check in again at 1130 AM and if called had to be there at 1245.

 

[song]

I’m no doctor, but I doubt many bystanders have equipment for hands only CPR. 

?

the last CPR training i had a few years ago, suggested doing hands only CPR, and the only equipment needed was hands and ability to keep a beat (BeeGee's "Stayin Alive" suggested)

for real.

 

[glock]

?

the last CPR training i had a few years ago, suggested doing hands only CPR, and the only equipment needed was hands and ability to keep a beat (BeeGee's "Stayin Alive" suggested)

for real.

Yep. A mouthpiece and some real guts and you can supplement with forced air.

 

[The Commish]

Coronavirus: Florida sets another record with 1,902 new cases of COVID-19

This could be due to more testing and the opening of the economy and the recent protests. Someone needs to do a deeper dive into the data.

This state has been on the upward trend this whole time.  The last week has been 1000+ every day I believe, which is a higher per day increase, but we've been increasing this whole time.  We did have a few weeks where it would jump around between 700/800 per day, but that's been a week or two ago.  Regardless of the reason, it's not good.  I also spoke of hospitals out by the lake being overwhelmed a couple of weeks ago...they are just getting that under control...I think they are finally down under 100%.

 

[shader]

Alot of talk about record numbers of cases in some states.  Cases don't overwhelm anything.  Hospitalizations and deaths do.

Cases are a leading indicator

 

[RUSF18]

I tried arguing for a mask requirement when opening back up, but I remember being met with resistance based on mask ineffectiveness. I think it's too late to have a discussion on it now. The genie is out of the bottle, and people aren't going to listen anymore, unfortunately. I think masks work. I was playing a game during lock downs, talking to a guy from Taiwan regularly, and he sold me on mask effectiveness pretty early on. This probably isn't going to be a huge issue with Covid, but there will be other viruses, and we need to get people more used to wearing masks like people in Asian countries have already accepted as part of life.

That genie could get back in the bottle if one person in particular would put a mask on.

 

[Dezbelief]

I live in an area with basically 100% compliance for indoor masks, every store I go to. I’m shocked to read how different it is in other areas. I can’t understand it. Just put the ******* mask on.  If you don’t, you are either a selfish ******* or a moron, there are no other options. Just put it on. Anytime you are in a public indoor place or a crowded outdoor place. So stupid that people are fighting this. In the future, when we look back on all this, and why the US was so much worse and it dragged out so much longer than other countries, mask compliance will be seen as a major factor. 

I was in line earlier and noticed none of the other customers had on a mask. I then looked around the store. I counted 21 customers and two masks counting my own. All the employees were wearing masks. Not a hotspot but there are a couple new cases every day in the county.

Dumb question about masks, but is there any reason you cannot reuse the disposable face shields (the common ones, similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-blue-50pcs-Breathable-Comfortable-Protection/dp/B085XQM7D9) if you have them on a rotation?  I have about 15 of them in my car glove box, and just rotate them so they have a week+ to "sterilize" in my fairly warm car. It seems like they would still do their job of blocking droplets and such? 

There really should be a temporary law where all people older than 5 should have a mask or get fined, even when out on your porch. I realize that is overly broad, but then you don't need to worry about exceptions and then no one can use the excuse that it makes them look "weak" or whatever other partisan reason there is, since everyone is effected equally.

I use similar masks and leave them on the dash. Most are intented for 4 or 8 hours of use. Over time the moisture in your breath breaks down the paper in the mask. I generally throw them away when the inner layer starts to breakdown. 

 

[Biff84]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Garrett_Archer/status/1271556170935721984

For the ‘protect the elderly and let everyone else live normally’ group - about 20% of hospitalizations in Arizona are 20-44. You might not be at high risk to die but doesn’t mean it’s not a big deal.

 

[Doug B]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Garrett_Archer/status/1271556170935721984

For the ‘protect the elderly and let everyone else live normally’ group - about 20% of hospitalizations in Arizona are 20-44. You might not be at high risk to die but doesn’t mean it’s not a big deal.

Yeah, that's one of the big misconceptions -- that it's a cleanly delineated choice between "death" and "totally fine" with nothing in between.

 

[gobrowns33]

Alot of talk about record numbers of cases in some states.  Cases don't overwhelm anything.  Hospitalizations and deaths do.

Yup, If most of these new cases are healthy folks with minor symptoms than an uptick in cases is actually good...they just need to self quarantine for 14 days.  Just basing what we as a country should do based on "reported" cases is a pointless...those numbers are only good for the news and fear mongering at this point.

While there will be hotspots and upticks here and there, based on the daily charts at worldometers, the number of cases per day in the US has been on a slight downtrend for a while.  The good news is the deaths per day have been trending down faster than daily cases.

 

[Biff84]

Yup, If most of these new cases are healthy folks with minor symptoms than an uptick in cases is actually good...they just need to self quarantine for 14 days.  Just basing what we as a country should do based on "reported" cases is a pointless...those numbers are only good for the news and fear mongering at this point.

While there will be hotspots and upticks here and there, based on the daily charts at worldometers, the number of cases per day in the US has been on a slight downtrend for a while.  The good news is the deaths per day have been trending down faster than daily cases.

The overall numbers are going down because the main hotspots - NY and NJ are declining significantly. But that should be pushing the case numbers down further. Instead new hotspots have emerged that are trending upwards. We have many smaller fires rather than a couple huge ones.

The big difference between now and March is that there isn’t going to be the hammer of stay-at-home orders to knock down the spread. We’re better prepared to handle outbreaks and have established some mitigation strategies but we might start seeing how important the lockdown was to stopping the spread.

Deaths are a trailing indicator. This week’s cases become next week’s hospitalizations and become next month’s deaths. We should be seeing a decrease in deaths before the next increase starts.

 

[snore]

The overall numbers are going down because the main hotspots - NY and NJ are declining significantly. But that should be pushing the case numbers down further. Instead new hotspots have emerged that are trending upwards. We have many smaller fires rather than a couple huge ones.

The big difference between now and March is that there isn’t going to be the hammer of stay-at-home orders to knock down the spread. We’re better prepared to handle outbreaks and have established some mitigation strategies but we might start seeing how important the lockdown was to stopping the spread.

Deaths are a trailing indicator. This week’s cases become next week’s hospitalizations and become next month’s deaths. We should be seeing a decrease in deaths before the next increase starts.

Agreed and I think you make a good point on the correlation of the different data points to understand the big picture. 
 

<rant>

New cases (Understood within the context of increases in testing) are a leading indicator of new hospitalizations which is a leading indicator of potential fatalities. Folks that point to just one of the numbers independently to support either “the sky is falling” or “justaflu” story lines are just cherrypicking. There is a lot of that going on in this thread and in non-footballguys life and oftentimes it is coupled with the “I work a lot with data” qualifier. 
 

Forest through the trees. Hard to get people to take a look at the big picture in my everyday interactions. 

<\rant>

 

[jobarules]

It sounds like momentum is growing for NYC schools to have a hybrid remote learning plan with kids mixing in class learning and remote learning. 

Kill me now. How do working parents like us do that? Time to move. 

 

[shader]

Was a pretty bad numbers day in many states.  

 

[shader]

Agreed and I think you make a good point on the correlation of the different data points to understand the big picture. 
 

<rant>

New cases (Understood within the context of increases in testing) are a leading indicator of new hospitalizations which is a leading indicator of potential fatalities. Folks that point to just one of the numbers independently to support either “the sky is falling” or “justaflu” story lines are just cherrypicking. There is a lot of that going on in this thread and in non-footballguys life and oftentimes it is coupled with the “I work a lot with data” qualifier. 
 

Forest through the trees. Hard to get people to take a look at the big picture in my everyday interactions. 

<\rant>

The first time around, we didn’t know places were falling apart until the ICU’s started filling up. That’s because we couldn’t test.

If we could have tested, we would have seen the hospitalizations coming because cases would have been rising.(Much faster, granted, than they are now)

Many are downplaying the cases this time because they aren’t seeing significant rises in hospitalizations.  But they are coming in many areas.  It’s unavoidable.  It’s a lot slower and more insidious this time, but it’s going to get worse and worse.

Last time we had a 1-2 month halt in activity to stop this in its tracks.  As many know, that’s not happening this time. 

 

[culdeus]

It sounds like momentum is growing for NYC schools to have a hybrid remote learning plan with kids mixing in class learning and remote learning. 

Kill me now. How do working parents like us do that? Time to move. 

The school thing is the great depression. Non normal schools and everything melts down. 

Not sure why every news article isn't hammering this home.  

 

[jobarules]

According to Cuomo today, NY had the lowest spread of CV of any state in the country. Insane 

 

[Redwes25]

It sounds like momentum is growing for NYC schools to have a hybrid remote learning plan with kids mixing in class learning and remote learning. 

Kill me now. How do working parents like us do that? Time to move. 

Suburbs of NYC are having same discussion/plans.  Doubt there will be anywhere that won't have some unusual plan for school in fall.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Yeah, that's one of the big misconceptions -- that it's a cleanly delineated choice between "death" and "totally fine" with nothing in between.

I’ve been trying to communicate the high hospitalization rate for everybody except the very young, roughly 4-5 times that of influenza, and the relatively long length of stay for those who are admitted. But people fixate on mortality risk, totally missing the more relevant factors which overwhelm healthcare facilities.

And we have no idea what long term sequelae will result from lung/heart/kidney damage among COVID survivors.

 

[TheWinz]

Connecticut still kicking ### and taking names

- I haven't seen a single person without a mask inside a public building for at least a month
- 244 current hospitalizations, lowest since 28 Mar when we were ramping up
- 2.86% positive test rate over last 7 days (1229/43039)
- 121 deaths over last 7 days, hasn't been this low since we were under 100 deaths total
- Rt Live still showing CT as one of the top states in Rt factor

But it's not all roses

- We rank 5th in cases per M (12534)
- We rank 3rd in deaths per M (1167)
- And my least favorite, we rank 1st in deaths per case (9.31%).  9.31 doesn't mean much until you put it into some context.  The US average is 5.52%, and only 1 other state is "trying" to keep up (Michigan, at 9.12%).

 

[BassNBrew]

That's great news.  It's one of many reasons why the NE is showing a clear decline in cases, and the South is showing a clear rise in cases.

If I go to the store here in TN, it's 80% without masks.  I can't speak for Texas, Florida, Georgia, NC, Alabama etc.  But I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's nowhere near 100%

Went to the ABC store here in Charlotte today. Mask coverage is about 50/50 (including one dude without who got way too close  )

NC set a new daily record with 1846 cases yesterday.  I was in a Lowes yesterday and 2 people out of 75 (excluding staff) were wearing a mask.  Make that 3 as I forgot to count myself.  Mask usage has been on a downward decline since we moved to stage two.  This is why we can't have nice things.  On top of this, it's ben hot and humid.  Maybe the weather doesn't matter, but my guy says if it were December that we'd be in serious trouble.

 

[The Z Machine]

Mask usage indoors in rettlail businesses that are open is still strong here in Baltimore.  Outdoors, not so much.  Haven't been to any outdoor sit-down restaurants yet so can't comment.

This is also likely why MD is doing ok for case rates and hospitalizations.

 

[[icon]]

Flying for the first time Friday. Two short legs (MEM>ATL>TPA). A little nervous but N95 going on at start of trip and not coming off till I walk out of the airport.  

 

[Terminalxylem]

Flying for the first time Friday. Two short legs (MEM>ATL>TPA). A little nervous but N95 going on at start of trip and not coming off till I walk out of the airport.  

Does TSA allow masks through security? 

 

[jamny]

Does TSA allow masks through security? 

You have to show your face at the check point before the gate entrance. You can put it right back on through the rest.

 

[SoBeDad]

Coronavirus: Florida reports 2,581 new cases, smashing one-day high

Great discussion of metrics from Dr. Tsai from Harvard and others:

>> "It’s an undue burden to the public to be responsible for determining number of new cases, positive rates, hospitalization rates ... that’s not the job of the public,” Tsai said. “That is the job of public health agencies"

Still, Tsai explained that some of the most meaningful metrics aren’t being offered or explained by public officials: how many contacts of confirmed cases are successfully being traced and tested? How quickly are those test results coming back? How many new cases are the result of that contact tracing? And how many are asymptomatic

Tsai said rising COVID-19 cases would not be a warning sign if the rate of positive tests also declined as testing expanded. But in Florida, it hasn’t. The percentage of positive tests in the state has ranged from 4% to 8% over the past two weeks and was about 7% on June 11, according to the most recent number available from the Florida Department of Health.

Positivity rates — or the percentage of total tests that come back positive on a daily basis — are being frequently used as a way to measure the effects of COVID-19. The World Health Organization advises governments that, before reopening, positivity rates should be at 5% or lower for at least 14 days.

Tsai said Florida’s positivity rate appears roughly static to him even as Florida tests more people, indicating that the state has not yet gotten the disease under control.

“That’s the part I haven’t seen in Florida yet is the deceleration,” he said. “The positive rate has been constant and the goal is not to perpetually mitigate COVID-19. The goal is to suppress the disease.” <<

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243361796.html

 

[[icon]]

You have to show your face at the check point before the gate entrance. You can put it right back on through the rest.

THX good to know... at the screening point before you go through security? This apply to TSA Pre / Global entry folks too? 
 

 

[snore]

THX good to know... at the screening point before you go through security? This apply to TSA Pre / Global entry folks too? 
 

Everyone. Once you get to the point where you have to show id and boarding pass they ask to see your face.  Pull the mask down for a sec, they look at your mug and compare to id and then pass you through to have your carry ons scanned, go through the body scan, etc. you can wear your mask through all of that (at least you could when we went through MSP and MCO).