*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (15 Viewers)

[Dr_Zaius]

I would say for the first 24-36 hours of a cold it is fairly indistinguishable from allergies for me as well.  Itchy eyes for the allergies but not the cold is really the only differentiating indicator, but I don't always have that.  Other than that, unless my sore throat pain goes above a certain level, I tend not to know for sure that I have a cold until the fever kicks in.

 

[belljr]

Super gonorrhea now trending...... 

 

[belljr]

Does anyone know if there's data out there on how well COVID/Omicron mimics allergy symptoms?  Almost everyone I know who has had COVID said they initially thought it was allergies which seems odd to me.  I dont know about anyone else, but I can very easily tell the difference between allergies and a cold.  It's a very different feeling despite targeting the same areas, sinuses and throat.  Having not had COVID yet, I don't know how similar COVID's nose/throat symptoms are to that of a regular cold.  

Not for me. By the time I figure out it's a cold my head is pounding and no matter what I do I can't clear congestion. Basically I don't know it's a cold until I'm well into the cold

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Allergies and a head cold feel very similar to me.  I've confused them before.

In fact, two weeks ago my wife started feeling ill, and assumed allergies.  Runny nose, sneezing, etc.  This was on a Wednesday.  We had a bunch of home tests for this occation, so she tested every day, with negative results.  So I didn't isolate myself from her at all.  Then on Saturday, she had a positive result, but only after being around each other for four days, including an hour long car trip.

I made plans to work from home the following week, just knowing I was next.  I never did get it.  As contagious as this thing is, I'm frankly amazed.  From folks I know who have got it, it seems to run through households with ease once one person gets it.

This is the exact same timeline and symptoms of my wife, and I also did not get it -- or at least did not test positive via antigen nasal swab.

 

[Doug B]

(NOTE: Recent figures in the Worldometers graphs have been getting big adjustments as much as a 7-10 days after they first drop. Accordingly, I've waited nine days to let the last-week Monday (June 13) numbers settle in. They may rise some more by next week's update, but it should be by a relatively small amount.)

...

Updating numbers to see where things have been standing recently from a top-of-the-mountain view. All figures below are 7-day averages from Worldometers U.S. graphs here. In the United States: 

CASES ON WED 06/22/2022
Thu 01/13/2022 - 825,409  <--OMICRON SURGE 2022 HIGH
Tue 02/01/2022 - 424,816
Thu 02/17/2022 - 116,942
Mon 02/21/2022 - 94,244
Mon 02/28/2022 - 62,205
Mon 03/07/2022 - 42,099
Mon 03/14/2022 - 32,909
Mon 03/21/2022 - 28,476
Mon 03/28/2022 - 28,480
Sat   04/02/2022 - 27,597 <--2022 LOW
Mon 04/04/2022 - 28,597
Mon 04/11/2022 - 33,921
Mon 04/18/2022 - 40,866
Mon 04/25/2022 - 52,578
Mon 05/02/2022 - 63,216
Mon 05/09/2022 - 81,379
Mon 05/16/2022 - 100,136
Mon 05/23/2022 - 110,696
Mon 05/30/2022 - 110,175
Mon 06/06/2022 - 106,604
Wed 06/08/2022 - 113,136  <-- SPRING SURGE HIGH
Mon 06/13/2022 - 107,142  (92,630 on Wed 06/15/2022)
Mon 06/20/2022 - 83,086  <--provisional count

DEATHS ON WED 06/22/2022
Sun  01/29/2022 - 2,756  <--OMICRON SURGE 2022 HIGH
Thu  02/17/2022 - 2,196
Tue  02/22/2022 - 1,964
Mon 02/28/2022 - 1,750
Mon 03/07/2022 - 1,306
Mon 03/14/2022 - 1,137
Tue  03/22/2022 - 784
Mon 03/28/2022 - 634
Mon 04/04/2022 - 579
Mon 04/11/2022 - 486
Mon 04/18/2022 - 374
Mon 04/25/2022 - 365
Mon 05/02/2022 - 337
Mon 05/09/2022 - 296
Sat 05/14/2022 - 280  <--2022 LOW
Mon 05/16/2022 - 288
Mon 05/23/2022 - 317
Fri 05/27/2022 - 346
Mon 05/30/2022 - 317
Mon 06/06/2022 - 321  (275 on Wed 06/15/2022)
Tue 06/07/2022 - 348  <--SPRING SURGE HIGH
Mon 06/13/2022 - 322  (226 on Wed 06/15/2022)
Mon 06/20/2022 - 208  <--provisional count

...

CASES: 7-day average of confirmed COVID cases in the U.S. peaked at 825,409 on 1/13/2022, and was provisionally 107,142 on 6/13/2022. After adjustments, the 7-day average of cases continued to rise through May 22-23. Between May 23 and June 16, the curve has entered into essentially a holding pattern, drifting between 100,000 and 113,000. We can expect this week's figures to be adjusted upwards into that 100,000+ range. Too early to say whether or not that will be the eventual endemic range.

DEATHS: With recent adjustments, the 7-day average had dropped for 79 consecutive days from 2,756 on 1/29/2022 to 349 on Tue 4/19/2022. That number jogged up to 354 the following day, breaking the streak. 7-day average deaths hit a new spring-surge peak on 6/7/2022 (348). The number was provisionally 322 on 6/13/2022. Figures over the last two weeks have been adjusted upwards, making apparent another holding pattern for deaths between 315-350. For the next few weeks, I expect this pattern to continue. I am hopeful that COVID deaths can eventually settle in at a lower number, but we're not there yet.

...

For comparison: Low-water marks in the U.S. from summer 2021, 7-day averages after the initial thrust of vaccinations and before summer 2021's Delta surge.

CASES: 12,197 on 6/21/2021
DEATHS: 245 on 7/8/2021

 

[nirad3]

snip

Thanks for continuously posting these numbers.  It's very interesting info. 

 

[Doug B]

Thanks for continuously posting these numbers.  It's very interesting info. 

YW. I like to see how the data moves -- the shape that the curve traces -- even if the exact level reflected by the case numbers is pretty much known to be low.

Those particular numbers (7-day average cases, 7-day average deaths) have remained largely stable for a month now. If immunity of any kind against Omicron were more lasting, maybe the figures could drift down some more. But there are people coming off of one end of the conveyor belt (those who got Omicron this past winter) ready to hop back on the other end as their immunity has waned.

Here's hoping a mo' better set of vaccines comes down the pike. The 2020 formulas have held down the fort, but they won't help drive down eventual endemic levels any further. Omicron and it's legion progeny needs some sticks stuck in their spokes.

 

[-fish-]

Anecdotally,  I personally know more people that have had covid in the last 2-3 weeks than any other time during the pandemic.   Lots of young people, too.

 

[Jobber]

Anecdotally,  I personally know more people that have had covid in the last 2-3 weeks than any other time during the pandemic.   Lots of young people, too.

My wife and youngest son (15) went to a soccer tournament in Chicago this past weekend. Monday evening, one parent told the team on Tramsnap she has Covid. My wife takes a test and it’s positive. That night, two other parents test positive. As of today, probably 8 families with some players included, positive. We had to cancel our games tonight and tomorrow. Coach also has it LOL.

 

[Doug B]

My wife and youngest son (15) went to a soccer tournament in Chicago this past weekend. Monday evening, one parent told the team on Tramsnap she has Covid. My wife takes a test and it’s positive. That night, two other parents test positive. As of today, probably 8 families with some players included, positive. We had to cancel our games tonight and tomorrow. Coach also has it LOL.

Was this wide outdoor spread? Or were a bunch of team staying together in one hotel, eating together, going to the pool together, etc.?

 

[Jobber]

Was this wide outdoor spread? Or were a bunch of team staying together in one hotel, eating together, going to the pool together, etc.?

Well, an outdoor tournament. All teams are mandated to stay in a handful of hotels (you don’t get a choice). That, plus going to restaurants and all that definitely contributes to easy spread.

 

[parasaurolophus]

My wife and youngest son (15) went to a soccer tournament in Chicago this past weekend. Monday evening, one parent told the team on Tramsnap she has Covid. My wife takes a test and it’s positive. That night, two other parents test positive. As of today, probably 8 families with some players included, positive. We had to cancel our games tonight and tomorrow. Coach also has it LOL.

Trampstamp? 

 

[Jobber]

Trampstamp? 

Damn autocorrect! TeamSnap. 

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

In for a 2nd round  

I go into the office 3-4 times a year. Last Friday was one of those days and by Sunday was bed bound mostly through Tuesday. Have the energy to get out of bed now and just left with nose running like faucet, constant cough and extreme throat pain after coughing. Don't think it'll be a issue but telling my employer I'm not going into the office again. Have taken every precaution I can (vaccine/booster/mask). I've went in there probably 10 times in the past 2.5 years and come out with COVID twice  

 

[jobarules]

In for a 2nd round  

I go into the office 3-4 times a year. Last Friday was one of those days and by Sunday was bed bound mostly through Tuesday. Have the energy to get out of bed now and just left with nose running like faucet, constant cough and extreme throat pain after coughing. Don't think it'll be a issue but telling my employer I'm not going into the office again. Have taken every precaution I can (vaccine/booster/mask). I've went in there probably 10 times in the past 2.5 years and come out with COVID twice  

How many people in your office when you go in?

Mine's a ghost town

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

How many people in your office when you go in?

Mine's a ghost town

I'd say 50-75 in the building the day I was there. They've left it optional for everyone for now so I don't know how many are regularly in there. I've been remote with them for over 10 years now. Can't imagine many are regularly in there.  I usually just go in for quarterly meetings.

I think I read a comment somewhere (maybe this thread) about vending machine prices.  So got me curious. They were up here as well. $2 for small bag of pretzels (vs. $0.75 or $1 pre-COVID). I get it but was just curious.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I have a story that's not directly Covid-related, although there are a few angles. (I actually thought about posting the whole thing in a different thread, but there didn't seem to be any that fit. Maybe petition the "55 and older" thread to let me post there even though I'm only 48?)

Anyway, since Sunday I've been in the ICU with a pulmonary embolism. Scary stuff, though fortunately I didn't know how bad it was until I was already in the hospital and being treated. Turns out that, in addition to the embolus in my lungs, I had a huge clot in my hip and others in my legs. Anyway, I seem to be on the mend, and am hoping to get discharged by Saturday. Like I said, I could post the whole thing in its own thread, and maybe I will eventually. But here's the Covid-relevant parts:

First of all, the fact that I got a PE is unusual. I'm 48, normal BMI, don't have asthma, don't smoke and am highly active (run every day). The last long-haul flight I took was 2 1/2 months ago, and I've never been the type to spend an entire flight in the same position (where you become susceptible to DVT).

And as far as I know, I have never had Covid.

The thing is, if I did have Covid it would offer a really convenient explanation for why a guy with seemingly no risk factors could have all these clots. A family friend who's a very well-respected doctor in these parts has been advising us to continue getting tested every day, since he's seen patients who test negative multiple days in a row before finally testing positive. The hospital, though, has pushed back; my wife thinks it's a billing issue, especially since a positive test wouldn't necessarily change the course of treatment. We finally got sick of fighting with them and she just started bringing me rapid tests from our home stash. At this point, I do think it's pretty unlikely that I have Covid, but I also don't see any harm in continuing to test so we can more confidently rule it out.

Meanwhile, spending a week in the hospital has, for the first time since I was vaccinated, made me genuinely nervous about the health consequences of actually getting Covid. I was admitted to the hospital with shortness of breath, an elevated heart rate and blood clots; the last thing I want to do is pile a Covid infection on top of that.

So I have been wearing a mask pretty much since the moment I walked in here. And ... it hasn't been that bad. Only complaints I have are that I've had my masks for awhile and they're getting a little ripe (I ordered some more off Amazon yesterday) and, since I haven't shaved all week, they're starting to get a little itchy. And look, I understand that for certain people (eg, developmentally disabled kids) masks can be very uncomfortable and disrupt their ability to interact with others. But let me tell you, after this experience I retroactively have even less respect for the idiots who spent most of 2020 yelling at Wal-Mart security guards for forcing them to mask up for five minutes while they grabbed a bag of Doritos.

I'll probably continue to mask up in public (and avoid large crowds) until I'm sure my cardiovascular system has fully recovered from the trauma it endured.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Trampstamp? 

Tattoo needles + lower back = high levels of Covid transmission.

Oh, and what kind of tattoo do most people get when they get a trampstamp? CHINESE characters!!!!! It's all starting to make sense!

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I have a story that's not directly Covid-related, although there are a few angles. (I actually thought about posting the whole thing in a different thread, but there didn't seem to be any that fit. Maybe petition the "55 and older" thread to let me post there even though I'm only 48?)

Anyway, since Sunday I've been in the ICU with a pulmonary embolism. Scary stuff, though fortunately I didn't know how bad it was until I was already in the hospital and being treated. Turns out that, in addition to the embolus in my lungs, I had a huge clot in my hip and others in my legs. Anyway, I seem to be on the mend, and am hoping to get discharged by Saturday. Like I said, I could post the whole thing in its own thread, and maybe I will eventually. But here's the Covid-relevant parts:

First of all, the fact that I got a PE is unusual. I'm 48, normal BMI, don't have asthma, don't smoke and am highly active (run every day). The last long-haul flight I took was 2 1/2 months ago, and I've never been the type to spend an entire flight in the same position (where you become susceptible to DVT).

And as far as I know, I have never had Covid.

The thing is, if I did have Covid it would offer a really convenient explanation for why a guy with seemingly no risk factors could have all these clots. A family friend who's a very well-respected doctor in these parts has been advising us to continue getting tested every day, since he's seen patients who test negative multiple days in a row before finally testing positive. The hospital, though, has pushed back; my wife thinks it's a billing issue, especially since a positive test wouldn't necessarily change the course of treatment. We finally got sick of fighting with them and she just started bringing me rapid tests from our home stash. At this point, I do think it's pretty unlikely that I have Covid, but I also don't see any harm in continuing to test so we can more confidently rule it out.

Meanwhile, spending a week in the hospital has, for the first time since I was vaccinated, made me genuinely nervous about the health consequences of actually getting Covid. I was admitted to the hospital with shortness of breath, an elevated heart rate and blood clots; the last thing I want to do is pile a Covid infection on top of that.

So I have been wearing a mask pretty much since the moment I walked in here. And ... it hasn't been that bad. Only complaints I have are that I've had my masks for awhile and they're getting a little ripe (I ordered some more off Amazon yesterday) and, since I haven't shaved all week, they're starting to get a little itchy. And look, I understand that for certain people (eg, developmentally disabled kids) masks can be very uncomfortable and disrupt their ability to interact with others. But let me tell you, after this experience I retroactively have even less respect for the idiots who spent most of 2020 yelling at Wal-Mart security guards for forcing them to mask up for five minutes while they grabbed a bag of Doritos.

I'll probably continue to mask up in public (and avoid large crowds) until I'm sure my cardiovascular system has fully recovered from the trauma it endured.

Wow.  Glad to hear you are on the mend.  

 

[Scoresman]

I have a story that's not directly Covid-related, although there are a few angles. (I actually thought about posting the whole thing in a different thread, but there didn't seem to be any that fit. Maybe petition the "55 and older" thread to let me post there even though I'm only 48?)

Anyway, since Sunday I've been in the ICU with a pulmonary embolism. Scary stuff, though fortunately I didn't know how bad it was until I was already in the hospital and being treated. Turns out that, in addition to the embolus in my lungs, I had a huge clot in my hip and others in my legs. Anyway, I seem to be on the mend, and am hoping to get discharged by Saturday. Like I said, I could post the whole thing in its own thread, and maybe I will eventually. But here's the Covid-relevant parts:

First of all, the fact that I got a PE is unusual. I'm 48, normal BMI, don't have asthma, don't smoke and am highly active (run every day). The last long-haul flight I took was 2 1/2 months ago, and I've never been the type to spend an entire flight in the same position (where you become susceptible to DVT).

And as far as I know, I have never had Covid.

The thing is, if I did have Covid it would offer a really convenient explanation for why a guy with seemingly no risk factors could have all these clots. A family friend who's a very well-respected doctor in these parts has been advising us to continue getting tested every day, since he's seen patients who test negative multiple days in a row before finally testing positive. The hospital, though, has pushed back; my wife thinks it's a billing issue, especially since a positive test wouldn't necessarily change the course of treatment. We finally got sick of fighting with them and she just started bringing me rapid tests from our home stash. At this point, I do think it's pretty unlikely that I have Covid, but I also don't see any harm in continuing to test so we can more confidently rule it out.

Meanwhile, spending a week in the hospital has, for the first time since I was vaccinated, made me genuinely nervous about the health consequences of actually getting Covid. I was admitted to the hospital with shortness of breath, an elevated heart rate and blood clots; the last thing I want to do is pile a Covid infection on top of that.

So I have been wearing a mask pretty much since the moment I walked in here. And ... it hasn't been that bad. Only complaints I have are that I've had my masks for awhile and they're getting a little ripe (I ordered some more off Amazon yesterday) and, since I haven't shaved all week, they're starting to get a little itchy. And look, I understand that for certain people (eg, developmentally disabled kids) masks can be very uncomfortable and disrupt their ability to interact with others. But let me tell you, after this experience I retroactively have even less respect for the idiots who spent most of 2020 yelling at Wal-Mart security guards for forcing them to mask up for five minutes while they grabbed a bag of Doritos.

I'll probably continue to mask up in public (and avoid large crowds) until I'm sure my cardiovascular system has fully recovered from the trauma it endured.

Glad to hear you're doing well.  My wife got PEs in her twenties and had to have the crazy surgery where they drain all your blood and pull out your lungs to get the clots out.  Sometimes these things just happen.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I have a story that's not directly Covid-related, although there are a few angles. (I actually thought about posting the whole thing in a different thread, but there didn't seem to be any that fit. Maybe petition the "55 and older" thread to let me post there even though I'm only 48?)

Anyway, since Sunday I've been in the ICU with a pulmonary embolism. Scary stuff, though fortunately I didn't know how bad it was until I was already in the hospital and being treated. Turns out that, in addition to the embolus in my lungs, I had a huge clot in my hip and others in my legs. Anyway, I seem to be on the mend, and am hoping to get discharged by Saturday. Like I said, I could post the whole thing in its own thread, and maybe I will eventually. But here's the Covid-relevant parts:

First of all, the fact that I got a PE is unusual. I'm 48, normal BMI, don't have asthma, don't smoke and am highly active (run every day). The last long-haul flight I took was 2 1/2 months ago, and I've never been the type to spend an entire flight in the same position (where you become susceptible to DVT).

And as far as I know, I have never had Covid.

The thing is, if I did have Covid it would offer a really convenient explanation for why a guy with seemingly no risk factors could have all these clots. A family friend who's a very well-respected doctor in these parts has been advising us to continue getting tested every day, since he's seen patients who test negative multiple days in a row before finally testing positive. The hospital, though, has pushed back; my wife thinks it's a billing issue, especially since a positive test wouldn't necessarily change the course of treatment. We finally got sick of fighting with them and she just started bringing me rapid tests from our home stash. At this point, I do think it's pretty unlikely that I have Covid, but I also don't see any harm in continuing to test so we can more confidently rule it out.

Meanwhile, spending a week in the hospital has, for the first time since I was vaccinated, made me genuinely nervous about the health consequences of actually getting Covid. I was admitted to the hospital with shortness of breath, an elevated heart rate and blood clots; the last thing I want to do is pile a Covid infection on top of that.

So I have been wearing a mask pretty much since the moment I walked in here. And ... it hasn't been that bad. Only complaints I have are that I've had my masks for awhile and they're getting a little ripe (I ordered some more off Amazon yesterday) and, since I haven't shaved all week, they're starting to get a little itchy. And look, I understand that for certain people (eg, developmentally disabled kids) masks can be very uncomfortable and disrupt their ability to interact with others. But let me tell you, after this experience I retroactively have even less respect for the idiots who spent most of 2020 yelling at Wal-Mart security guards for forcing them to mask up for five minutes while they grabbed a bag of Doritos.

I'll probably continue to mask up in public (and avoid large crowds) until I'm sure my cardiovascular system has fully recovered from the trauma it endured.

Sorry to hear this. Why have you been in the ICU so long? Did they give you medicine to break up the clot(s), or extract them surgically/via catheter?

You should consider getting compression stockings if your legs are swollen at all, as any residual edema can be painful, and be a set up for future infections.

And if you haven’t already done so, make sure your cancer screening is up to date, because unprovoked clots can rarely be a harbinger of cancer. Barring a strong family history, at your age that means colonoscopy, skin and self testicular exams. 

There also a bunch of blood tests they can do for heritable clotting disorders, though they generally aren’t indicated, and several of them are adversely impacted by blood thinning medications. If you get tested, you’re supposed to wait several months and be off blood thinners.

Lastly, when did you receive your most recent covid shot?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Sorry to hear this. Why have you been in the ICU so long? Did they give you medicine to break up the clot(s), or extract them surgically/via catheter?

You should consider getting compression stockings if your legs are swollen at all, as any residual edema can be painful, and be a set up for future infections.

And if you haven’t already done so, make sure your cancer screening is up to date, because unprovoked clots can rarely be a harbinger of cancer. Barring a strong family history, at your age that means colonoscopy, skin and self testicular exams. 

There also a bunch of blood tests they can do for heritable clotting disorders, though they generally aren’t indicated, and several of them are adversely impacted by blood thinning medications. If you get tested, you’re supposed to wait several months and be off blood thinners.

Lastly, when did you receive your most recent covid shot?

A lot to address here. Sorry for hijacking the thread a little, but I really value @Terminalxylem's advice, so I want to address his questions:

• I had both a TPA injection to break up the PE, as well as a physical removal of a DVT in my hip two days later. Oh and they also installed an IVC filter to ensure none of the other clots (there are some in my other leg) travel anywhere dangerous. The hope is that I go to the step-down floor tomorrow and get discharged the following day
  
• No swelling in the legs. However, they set up wraps earlier today that periodically massage my calves (it's actually kind of nice)
  
• There will be lots of time in the coming weeks for follow-up appointments with specialists (including a hematologist) to determine how I got these clots. They don't seem to think it's cancer related -- so far, the most likely explanation I've heard is the May-Thurner Syndrome that narrowed the iliac vein and caused the DVT. But they've also warned me it may not be monocausal
  
• Last Covid shot (first booster, third overall) was in October. I was told by a doctor today that I probably don't need to rush out and get another booster. And yes, I did think about how certain (ahem) posters in these forums might seize on my case and say "A-ha! A young, healthy guy who runs every day suddenly has a PE! iT mUSt bE ThE jAbZzZzZzZZZzzZzZ!!!!!!" Which could be true ... if the vax's side effects have a latency of eight months.
  

 

[Terminalxylem]

A lot to address here. Sorry for hijacking the thread a little, but I really value @Terminalxylem's advice, so I want to address his questions:

• I had both a TPA injection to break up the PE, as well as a physical removal of a DVT in my hip two days later. Oh and they also installed an IVC filter to ensure none of the other clots (there are some in my other leg) travel anywhere dangerous. The hope is that I go to the step-down floor tomorrow and get discharged the following day
  
• No swelling in the legs. However, they set up wraps earlier today that periodically massage my calves (it's actually kind of nice)
  
• There will be lots of time in the coming weeks for follow-up appointments with specialists (including a hematologist) to determine how I got these clots. They don't seem to think it's cancer related -- so far, the most likely explanation I've heard is the May-Thurner Syndrome that narrowed the iliac vein and caused the DVT. But they've also warned me it may not be monocausal
  
• Last Covid shot (first booster, third overall) was in October. I was told by a doctor today that I probably don't need to rush out and get another booster. And yes, I did think about how certain (ahem) posters in these forums might seize on my case and say "A-ha! A young, healthy guy who runs every day suddenly has a PE! iT mUSt bE ThE jAbZzZzZzZZZzzZzZ!!!!!!" Which could be true ... if the vax's side effects have a latency of eight months.
  

So they diagnosed  May-Thurner? Did they stent your left iliac vein?

In a way the diagnosis is good news, but may buy you indefinite anticoagulation (but with the burden of unprovoked clot, you were probably headed down that path anyway).

ETA Clots in the right leg speaks against it only being May-Thurner, unless they are using that term loosely, to mean anatomic obstruction of any of the iliac vessels.

 

[Terminalxylem]

• Last Covid shot (first booster, third overall) was in October. I was told by a doctor today that I probably don't need to rush out and get another booster. And yes, I did think about how certain (ahem) posters in these forums might seize on my case and say "A-ha! A young, healthy guy who runs every day suddenly has a PE! iT mUSt bE ThE jAbZzZzZzZZZzzZzZ!!!!!!" Which could be true ... if the vax's side effects have a latency of eight months.
  

Not particularly plausible. All the clotting stuff (in non-mRNA vaccines) occurred shortly after receiving the shot, like days to weeks. I also suspect your platelet counts were normal, or they wouldn’t have given you systemic tPA.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

So they diagnosed  May-Thurner? Did they stent your left iliac vein?

In a way the diagnosis is good news, but may buy you indefinite anticoagulation (but with the burden of unprovoked clot, you were probably headed down that path anyway).

ETA Clots in the right leg speaks against it only being May-Thurner, unless they are using that term loosely, to mean anatomic obstruction of any of the iliac vessels.

Double stent in the left iliac. Some 20cm total.

Not totally sure about the M-T diagnosis. They mentioned it, but not sure how definite it is, and yes, may not be the sole cause.

As for blood thinners, I'm prepared to be on them for a long time, but no one is committing to anything just yet. For now they're just saying a few months.

Not particularly plausible. All the clotting stuff (in non-mRNA vaccines) occurred shortly after receiving the shot, like days to weeks. I also suspect your platelet counts were normal, or they wouldn’t have given you systemic tPA.

Yeah, I was mostly joking. Unless I had an infection very recently (that didn't show up on any of the PCR tests I took during that time), it's highly unlikely this is connected to Covid, much less the vaccine.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

In for a 2nd round  

I go into the office 3-4 times a year. Last Friday was one of those days and by Sunday was bed bound mostly through Tuesday. Have the energy to get out of bed now and just left with nose running like faucet, constant cough and extreme throat pain after coughing. Don't think it'll be a issue but telling my employer I'm not going into the office again. Have taken every precaution I can (vaccine/booster/mask). I've went in there probably 10 times in the past 2.5 years and come out with COVID twice  

How far apart are your covid bouts?

 

[worrierking]

Double stent in the left iliac. Some 20cm total.

Not totally sure about the M-T diagnosis. They mentioned it, but not sure how definite it is, and yes, may not be the sole cause.

As for blood thinners, I'm prepared to be on them for a long time, but no one is committing to anything just yet. For now they're just saying a few months.

Yeah, I was mostly joking. Unless I had an infection very recently (that didn't show up on any of the PCR tests I took during that time), it's highly unlikely this is connected to Covid, much less the vaccine.

Ignatius, keep posting with taste and decency, theology and geometry. I also recommend eating lots of Paradise hot dogs and therapeutic lute-playing. 
 

I am in New Orleans staying at a house in the neighborhood where Ignatius lived. This morning I went for a run and ran the entire length of Constantinople street. 
 

Watch out for your valve, avoid Greyhound Scenicruiser buses and, if needed, partake in “The Hobby.” You’ll feel better soon.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Ignatius, keep posting with taste and decency, theology and geometry. I also recommend eating lots of Paradise hot dogs and therapeutic lute-playing. 
 

I am in New Orleans staying at a house in the neighborhood where Ignatius lived. This morning I went for a run and ran the entire length of Constantinople street. 
 

Watch out for your valve, avoid Greyhound Scenicruiser buses and, if needed, partake in “The Hobby.” You’ll feel better soon.

You know what's funny? I actually do have an issue with my "valve".  (It's the one between the two sides of my heart. They want to wait until things calm down before deciding if they need to do anything about it

 

[Terminalxylem]

Double stent in the left iliac. Some 20cm total.

Not totally sure about the M-T diagnosis. They mentioned it, but not sure how definite it is, and yes, may not be the sole cause.

As for blood thinners, I'm prepared to be on them for a long time, but no one is committing to anything just yet. For now they're just saying a few months.

Yeah, I was mostly joking. Unless I had an infection very recently (that didn't show up on any of the PCR tests I took during that time), it's highly unlikely this is connected to Covid, much less the vaccine.

Well something mandated the stents, as they aren’t any part of the routine management of pelvic clots.

Its an interesting question, as stenting  the compressed vessel theoretically corrects your risk factor for clotting. Normally people with blood vessel stents only require anti-platelet drugs like aspirin and/or newer stuff, eg. Brillinta/Plavix, not more potent blood thinners like Eliquis (which you’ll probably receive, if not taking already).

But as I said, seems like something else is awry, if you also had clots in the right leg.

They’ll probably anticoagulate you for at least 6 months, then consider checking blood tests for familial blood clotting diseases + screen for malignancy. If all that stuff looks good, they might consider dropping the Eliquis in favor of anti platelet drugs alone. Or just assume your risk of reclotting is high enough to anti coagulate indefinitely, until bleeding exceeds clotting risk.

Sorry, just thinking out loud a bit. It’s really fortunate they caught it and addressed the problems, so you can focus on recovering.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Welp... Wife, son and I have been vaxxed and boosted throughout. Abided by local mask rules as required and escaped Covid this whole time despite my wife working among the unwashed masses all day every day as an elementary school principal.

Until now.

One day after returning from a school administrators conference, wife has a sore throat and now a positive test. Neat. I'm sure I've already gotten it from her.

So... Nice knowing y'all.

 

[Capella]

Yea I had a sore throat on Thursday so I tested. Positive right away. My son got it too…today was the day of his vaccination so him getting it the day before after an 18-month wait was really fun. Almost hard to believe. 
 

Anyhow we both feel fine so far, so hopefully that continues. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Well something mandated the stents, as they aren’t any part of the routine management of pelvic clots.

Its an interesting question, as stenting  the compressed vessel theoretically corrects your risk factor for clotting. Normally people with blood vessel stents only require anti-platelet drugs like aspirin and/or newer stuff, eg. Brillinta/Plavix, not more potent blood thinners like Eliquis (which you’ll probably receive, if not taking already).

But as I said, seems like something else is awry, if you also had clots in the right leg.

They’ll probably anticoagulate you for at least 6 months, then consider checking blood tests for familial blood clotting diseases + screen for malignancy. If all that stuff looks good, they might consider dropping the Eliquis in favor of anti platelet drugs alone. Or just assume your risk of reclotting is high enough to anti coagulate indefinitely, until bleeding exceeds clotting risk.

Sorry, just thinking out loud a bit. It’s really fortunate they caught it and addressed the problems, so you can focus on recovering.

All of your suppositions are pretty much spot on. There may be something bigger going on, so the plan is to put me on blood thinners for a few months and then re-evaluate. And yes, I was very fortunate that I went to the hospital when I did.

Meanwhile, a quick update: I was discharged from the hospital today! I feel good, though I will obviously ease myself back into things (working remotely, going for short walks, making sure I don't tax myself too much.)

Oh, and to get this back to Covid for a moment, my last day or so in the hospital I gave up on the 24/7 masking. Not because it was too cumbersome, but because with the week's beard growth it was too damn itchy! I also rationalized that, particularly as the interventions tailed off and there were fewer people coming in and out of my room, it was mostly just me alone (or with my wife). I do plan on continuing to mask in indoor crowds for a little while, though.

 

[Terminalxylem]

You know what's funny? I actually do have an issue with my "valve".  (It's the one between the two sides of my heart. They want to wait until things calm down before deciding if they need to do anything about it

PFO are present in like a quarter of the population, and usually no big wup.

But with you, the concern is a clot will break off from your legs, bypass the lungs through it and travel right to the brain, causing a stroke. Fortunately, the usual pressure differential between the left and right sides of the heart should prevent that from happening anytime soon. In any event, it’s one more reason for the blood thinner (they’ll remove the filter from your main vein).

Glad you’re leaving the hospital. Definitely consider getting the fourth Covid shot (you now qualify!) after you convalesce a bit. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

PFO are present in like a quarter of the population, and usually no big wup.

But with you, the concern is a clot will break off from your legs, bypass the lungs through it and travel right to the brain, causing a stroke. Fortunately, the usual pressure differential between the left and right sides of the heart should prevent that from happening anytime soon. In any event, it’s one more reason for the blood thinner (they’ll remove the filter from your main vein).

Glad you’re leaving the hospital. Definitely consider getting the fourth Covid shot (you now qualify!) after you convalesce a bit. 

Can't remember if I mentioned this previously, but during my initial procedure they also installed an IVC filter to limit the risk of a clot traveling from my legs to somewhere dangerous. Or is that what you were referring to in the second paragraph?

As for the PFO, the initial bubble test showed there was "traffic" between the right and left ventricles, but the assumption is that was largely a result of the pressure on the RV -- as a result of the embolus -- needing some sort of outlet. They want to let things calm down over the next couple weeks and see if that solves the problem. Medium worst case, they have to go in an plug it up. (Absolute worst case, it's bad enough that it could require a heart transplant, but that doesn't seem likely). 

Still haven't decided on the fourth shot. I've been on record in this thread as saying it's generally a low-stakes decision, but my current health situation obviously raises the stakes a little. One of the doctors in the ICU actually recommended against it for now (although he was also my least favorite doctor, for other reasons). I'm going to discuss it with my PCP this week and make a decision. In the meantime, one thing I feel pretty sure about is that I'm not going to recklessly expose myself to the virus in the interim

 

[ZADO]

People still getting sick, are you taking anything at all to boost your immune systems ? Or just living life as usual and eating whatever and smoking / drinking and doing things that lower the immune system?

These things work 
 

Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system

Don't smoke.

Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.

Exercise regularly.

Maintain a healthy weight.

If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.

Get adequate sleep.

 

[Biff84]

Officially joined the club. Likely had a mild OG Omicron infection at the beginning of the year but never tested positive.

Started with a cough and sore throat Tuesday night. Wednesday progressed to a fever, body aches and fatigue but wasn’t positive. Could just be influenza but either way called out of work. Thursday morning woke up feeling like some of the symptoms were gone but still tested before going back to work and came up positive this time. The rest of the day went downhill with fever causing me to sweat through clothes and sheets but never reading too high.

Friday morning the fever broke and again felt good to start the day but got worse as the day went on with headache, brain fog and no appetite being the biggest issues. Sinus congestion, runny nose and cough started that night and continued through today. Seemingly a new set of symptoms each day, really strange virus.

Trying to keep isolated and not give it the rest of family and so far so good though my wife has started to complain of possible symptoms.

Overall hasn’t been horrible. Pre-COVID I probably would have worked and regretted it. Can go back to work on Monday if I’m 24 hours without symptoms.

Likely got it from work (another employee is also sick) either from a new pharmacist we are training or one of the customers coming in store to pickup their Paxlovid script.  But could have also been from my hand physical therapy as 2 out of the 3 employees I saw last week were out this week. I’ve been the only person wearing a mask in either place, though not as consistent at work when not in patient contact. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Can't remember if I mentioned this previously, but during my initial procedure they also installed an IVC filter to limit the risk of a clot traveling from my legs to somewhere dangerous. Or is that what you were referring to in the second paragraph?

As for the PFO, the initial bubble test showed there was "traffic" between the right and left ventricles, but the assumption is that was largely a result of the pressure on the RV -- as a result of the embolus -- needing some sort of outlet. They want to let things calm down over the next couple weeks and see if that solves the problem. Medium worst case, they have to go in an plug it up. (Absolute worst case, it's bad enough that it could require a heart transplant, but that doesn't seem likely). 

Still haven't decided on the fourth shot. I've been on record in this thread as saying it's generally a low-stakes decision, but my current health situation obviously raises the stakes a little. One of the doctors in the ICU actually recommended against it for now (although he was also my least favorite doctor, for other reasons). I'm going to discuss it with my PCP this week and make a decision. In the meantime, one thing I feel pretty sure about is that I'm not going to recklessly expose myself to the virus in the interim

Yeah, except under really extenuating circumstances, those filters need to be retrieved. From what you’ve said, I see no reason why it should stay in, assuming you’re tolerating anticoagulation. The reason they take them out is the filters themselves are a nidus for clots, and can do other bad stuff like erode though the blood vessel wall, or get infected if left in too long.

Under normal circumstances with a small PFO, the pressure in the left atrium exceeds that of the right, so blood/clot shouldn’t shunt R—>L through the PFO. With a high burden of acute clot in the lungs, you expect your pulmonary pressures to go up, causing strain on the right heart (pumps blood to the lungs) and potentially shunting blood (+/- clot) through the PFO connecting the left and right atria. With bigger PFOs this can happen independent of clot, as there are chronic adaptations in the lung’s blood vessels which increase pulmonary pressures. Untreated sleep apnea and a bunch of other medical conditions can promote this situation, too.

In your case, much of your pulmonary embolus should have been broken up by the tPA. Your body will take care of the rest over the next several weeks-months, with the blood thinners preventing new clot from forming. So I expect your right heart/pulmonary pressures probably have already improved since the initial echo.

Getting a booster is a bit of a dilemma, given what we know about the (exceedingly rare) association of non-mRNA vaccines and clotting. You also have to consider the strain on your heart and lungs from flu-like vaccine AEs. On the other hand, you’re a heck of a lot more likely to get sick if you actually contract covid, and it’s associated with abnormal clotting as well. There’s no good evidence to balance those risks and benefits, but if it were me, I’d strongly consider getting boosted. In the interim, you’re smart to be extra cautious with masks and other non-pharmaceutical interventions.

 

[AAABatteries]

Maybe I just don’t remember the sore throat part being so prevalent from the last two years but that was one of my symptoms I had a little while back when I had Covid.  Is this variant more prone to folks having sore throats?

 

[PinkydaPimp]

My 4 year old got his vax this week.  Went with Moderna.  surprisingly no side effects.  no fever and his arm didnt even hurt.   

 

[Kiddnets]

dodged for 2 yrs and my sons middle school graduation finally did me in.  Both wife and I are positive - 3 dys in and runnny nose, headaches, body aches and cough - bad but not worse than a flu at this point - im over 50 and double vax with one boost - high BP and out of shape - is it worth talking to Dr about getting on one of those antiviral meds?  

 

[Jobber]

Well. I’m the guy whose wife picked up Covid from the soccer team in Chicago. Yesterday my youngest son and I both tested positive. My daughter had Covid about 3 weeks ago. My oldest son is the last man standing :knock on wood:

 

[Doug B]

Both wife and I are positive - 3 dys in and runny nose, headaches, body aches and cough - bad but not worse than a flu at this point - im over 50 and double vax with one boost - high BP and out of shape - is it worth talking to Dr about getting on one of those antiviral meds?

If you already have had symptoms for three days, you might get told it's too late to start an antiviral.

However, if you can get seen or consulted with today, it's worth a shot. Can't hurt to ask tomorrow if you have to wait until Monday ... just that it's another day gone by, and antivirals are meant to be taken early in an infection.

 

[Capella]

Day 4 and haven’t had any problems except this cough really sucks. Picked that up yesterday. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Ed Yong has probably been my No. 1 go-to writer during the pandemic. Hell, the guy basically predicted the whole thing back in 2018. So when I saw the headline of his latest Atlantic piece, I was a little worried that he might be slipping into Eric Feigl-Ding/Covid maximizer territory, where people act like it's forever April 2020.

Fortunately, Yong's piece is more nuanced than that. I still think he's a little too credible regarding mask mandates and doesn't grapple with the fact that a) masks are less effective vs. Omicron and b) at this stage, the near-impossibility of widespread adoption makes them pretty much useless as a public-policy tool. But I do think he's right to sound the alarm that public-health officials should not be resting on their laurels right now.

Throughout this thread, I've long tried to make the distinction between individual and public-policy responses to the pandemic. If you're vaxxed and low risk and want to treat the pandemic as over, I don't really have a problem with that. (And conversely, if you're high risk and want to continue to mask up in public and avoid large crowds, that should be an effective strategy for keeping yourself safe).

But from a PP perspective, there are lots of things officials should be doing right now to continue minimizing the impact of Covid. Daily death rates, while thankfully much lower, are still unacceptably high. We also need to stockpile now and continue trying to reach the unvaxxed to be prepared for any future curveballs the virus throws at us. We need to make sure we're prepared for future pandemics. And finally, we need to focus on problems like ventilation (especially in schools) that will help address all of those issues as well as contributing to overall improvements in public health.

So in that sense, I'm glad Yong is sounding the alarm. I hope people are listening.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

(NRJ note: this article below was prior to the CDC Omicron booster meetings this week)

Similar to Yong's take above, it doesn't paint the prettiest future for our collective pandemic future.  

........................

The BA.5 story The takeover by this Omicron sub-variant is not pretty

The Omicron sub-variant BA.5 is the worst version of the virus that we’ve seen. It takes immune escape, already extensive, to the next level, and, as a function of that, enhanced transmissibility, well beyond Omicron (BA.1) and other Omicron family variants that we’ve seen (including BA.1.1, BA.2, BA.2.12.1, and BA.4). You could say it’s not so bad because there hasn’t been a marked rise in hospitalizations and deaths as we saw with Omicron, but that’s only because we had such a striking adverse impact from Omicron, for which there is at least some cross-immunity (BA.1 to BA.5). Here I will review (1) what we know about its biology; (2) its current status around the world; and (3) the ways we can defend against it.

The ways we can defend against it

Obviously, the non-pharmacologic mitigating measures that include high-quality make (N95/KN95), physical distancing, ventilation and air filtration would help, but pandemic fatigue has led to very low level of adoption. Boosters would help, and it is noteworthy that for people age 50+ there is a substantial (14-fold) reduction for mortality as recently documented by the CDC for a 4th shot (previously published by the Israel investigators in multiple observational studies). That is 99% reduction in mortality for 4-shots vs 86% for 3 shots. But only 1 in 4 Americans age 50+ have had a fourth shot! The big question now is whether an Omicron booster, directed to BA.1, will help when that variant is no longer with us, and we will be close to 100% BA.5 within a matter of weeks. And no doubt there will be further troublesome variants that lie ahead, be they more in the Omicron family or in a whole new lineage.

 

[Doug B]

(NOTE: Recent figures in the Worldometers graphs have been getting big adjustments as much as a 7-10 days after they first drop. Accordingly, I've waited nine days to let the last-week Monday (June 20) numbers settle in. They may rise some more by next week's update, but it should be by a relatively small amount.)

...

Updating numbers to see where things have been standing recently from a top-of-the-mountain view. All figures below are 7-day averages from Worldometers U.S. graphs here. In the United States: 

CASES ON WED 06/29/2022
Thu 01/13/2022 - 825,620  <--OMICRON SURGE 2022 HIGH
Tue 02/01/2022 - 424,816
Thu 02/17/2022 - 116,942
Mon 02/21/2022 -   94,244
Mon 02/28/2022 -   62,205
Mon 03/07/2022 -   42,099
Mon 03/14/2022 -   32,909
Mon 03/21/2022 -   28,476
Mon 03/28/2022 -   28,480
Sat   04/02/2022 -   27,597 <--2022 LOW
Mon 04/04/2022 -   28,597
Mon 04/11/2022 -   33,921
Mon 04/18/2022 -   40,866
Mon 04/25/2022 -   52,578
Mon 05/02/2022 -   63,219
Mon 05/09/2022 -   81,413
Mon 05/16/2022 - 100,134
Mon 05/23/2022 - 110,718
Mon 05/30/2022 - 110,207
Mon 06/06/2022 - 106,633
Wed 06/08/2022 - 113,209  <-- SPRING SURGE HIGH
Mon 06/13/2022 - 107,872  (107,142 on Wed 06/22/2022)
Mon 06/20/2022 -   99,110  (83,086 on Wed 06/22/2022)
Mon 06/27/2022 -   96,444  <--provisional count

DEATHS ON WED 06/29/2022
Sun  01/29/2022 - 2,756  <--OMICRON SURGE 2022 HIGH
Thu  02/17/2022 - 2,196
Tue  02/22/2022 - 1,964
Mon 02/28/2022 - 1,750
Mon 03/07/2022 - 1,306
Mon 03/14/2022 - 1,137
Tue  03/22/2022 - 784
Mon 03/28/2022 - 634
Mon 04/04/2022 - 579
Mon 04/11/2022 - 486
Mon 04/18/2022 - 374
Mon 04/25/2022 - 365
Mon 05/02/2022 - 337
Mon 05/09/2022 - 296
Sat 05/14/2022   - 280  <--2022 LOW
Mon 05/16/2022 - 288
Mon 05/23/2022 - 321
Mon 05/30/2022 - 321
Mon 06/06/2022 - 332  (321 on Wed 06/22/2022)
Tue 06/07/2022  - 362  <--SPRING SURGE HIGH
Mon 06/13/2022 - 351  (322 on Wed 06/22/2022)
Mon 06/20/2022 - 280  (208 on Wed 06/22/2022)
Mon 06/27/2022 - 213  <--provisional count

...

CASES: 7-day average of confirmed COVID cases in the U.S. peaked at 825,620 on 1/13/2022, and was provisionally 99,110 on 6/20/2022. After adjustments, the 7-day average of cases continued to rise through May 22-23. Since June 8, the 7-day case numbers have shown a very gradual, undulating decline. As always, we can expect this week's figures to be adjusted upwards -- hopefully not enough upwards to disrupt the tenuous slow reduction.

DEATHS: The 7-day average had dropped for 79 consecutive days from 2,756 on 1/29/2022 to 350 on Tue 4/19/2022. That number jogged up to 353 the following day, breaking the streak. 7-day average deaths hit a new spring-surge peak on 6/7/2022 (362). The number was provisionally 280 on 6/20/2022. Counter to expectations, the 7-day deaths figures are showing a similar slow decline to the 7-day case counts. We'll still have to see how many deaths get added to the week of 6/20 to determine if the apparent slow decline trend holds up. It's been a struggle for the 7-day death numbers to get below 300 and stay there, but I am hopeful that COVID deaths can soon settle in at least as low as the summer 2021 low-water mark (see below). Maybe in a year -- consistent sub-200 7-day death counts?

...

For comparison: Low-water marks in the U.S. from summer 2021, 7-day averages after the initial thrust of vaccinations and before summer 2021's Delta surge.

CASES: 12,197 on 6/21/2021
DEATHS: 245 on 7/8/2021

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Do mask mandates work? Bay Area COVID data from June says no.

In early June, during an uptick in COVID-19 cases, Alameda County was the only Bay Area county to bring back an indoor mask mandate.

At the time, county Health Officer Dr. Nicholas Moss said, “Putting our masks back on gives us the best opportunity to limit the impact of a prolonged wave on our communities.”

But regional case data provides no discernible evidence that the rule, which was lifted June 25, succeeded at that goal.

The graphs below compare Alameda County’s seven-day average case rate from the past two months to rates in neighboring Contra Costa, Santa Clara and San Francisco counties. Contra Costa and Santa Clara, in particular, are natural comparisons to Alameda, because they have similar vaccination rates and demographic data. San Francisco, on the other side of the bay, provides an additional point of reference. All data comes from the California Department of Public Health.

The case rate curves for Alameda and Contra Costa counties are near-identical. Because the neighboring counties are similar in so many respects, if masking policy had an impact on pandemic outcomes, one would expect to see some sort of discrepancy in the graph.

I would bet that, even in high-compliance locations like Alameda, plenty of people dutifully wear masks during the 15 minutes they're walking around the grocery store, then head over to a crowded restaurant or bar and spend hours there unmasked with their friends. I say this because I've totally done that multiple times over the past year or so, knowing in the moment how ridiculous it was.

 

[Scoresman]

Do mask mandates work? Bay Area COVID data from June says no.

I would bet that, even in high-compliance locations like Alameda, plenty of people dutifully wear masks during the 15 minutes they're walking around the grocery store, then head over to a crowded restaurant or bar and spend hours there unmasked with their friends. I say this because I've totally done that multiple times over the past year or so, knowing in the moment how ridiculous it was.

If the mandates mandated the wearing of N95 or KN95s I bet the data would tell a different story.  Plenty of data out there showing that cloth masks are essentially a fashion accessory at this point with Omicron, and that properly fitting N95s are the way to go in terms of offering some protection.  

A lot of people I know are getting COVID and saying "but I wore a mask!" Then I see the masks they've been wearing and shake my head.  No one I know who regularly wears N95s have gotten it yet.  

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

If the mandates mandated the wearing of N95 or KN95s I bet the data would tell a different story.  Plenty of data out there showing that cloth masks are essentially a fashion accessory at this point with Omicron, and that properly fitting N95s are the way to go in terms of offering some protection.  

A lot of people I know are getting COVID and saying "but I wore a mask!" Then I see the masks they've been wearing and shake my head.  No one I know who regularly wears N95s have gotten it yet.  

I actually had this debate with a friend earlier today: If you could guarantee a high rate of compliance with well-fitted N95s, would a mask mandate have an impact in lowering transmission? I was more bullish than he was, but we both agreed it was a purely theoretical question, both because people suck at buying/wearing masks plus at this point too many people are just done-zo with them.

 

[Scoresman]

I actually had this debate with a friend earlier today: If you could guarantee a high rate of compliance with well-fitted N95s, would a mask mandate have an impact in lowering transmission? I was more bullish than he was, but we both agreed it was a purely theoretical question, both because people suck at buying/wearing masks plus at this point too many people are just done-zo with them.

It wouldn't work to mandate them.  People already ##### and moan about having to wear a thin piece of cloth as a mask. Imagine the uproar.   Wearing an N95 with a proper seal is noticeably different than a cloth mask.  Then you have to educate people on how to establish the proper seal as in where the mask bands should lie, how to tighten the nose piece, etc.  Then you have to somehow get kids to wear them too.

I have no doubt, however, that if you somehow could achieve compliance, it would make a huge dent in transmission.