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Official Donald Trump for President thread (4 Viewers)

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saintfool said:
Brennan Center expert breaks down what happened (likely)

From another article :

Michigan's voting machines are outdated and beginning to break down, with counties buying used parts on the Internet and nursing a computer operating system that stopped being sold in 2008
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Ok, like I said, test the machines.

And if it's not purely mechanical then there's only other possible problem.

I say "purely", in my experience incompetence and corruption go hand in hand. So for instance. Let's say there's a problem with the machine double counting and the poll workers have to go back and true it up after. Well they could true up votes for candidate X and then just not do it for candidate Y.

 
The Brennan Center article for those too lazy to click over:

The Michigan recount may be over before it really started, but even if it is never completed, it has already raised some important questions.  Specifically, as a result of the recount process starting, we learned that as many as 610 precincts in Wayne County, including 392 in Detroit, had differences between the number of voters in the poll book and the number of ballots counted by voting machines.

I was troubled by these reports, but I wasn’t surprised.  The problems seem to be related to widespread failure of the voting machines on Election Day.  I learned about these problems as they were happening, while working for the Election Protection coalition. Pam Smith, President of Verified Voting, who supported the coalition’s response for technology problems, told me about numerous reports from Detroit, with voting machines going down in locations all over town.

I knew Detroit, like the rest of Michigan, used optical scan machines that were old and needed to be replaced soon. I took some solace in the fact that these failing machines were optical scanners, rather than touch screen machines without a paper trail.

To vote with optical scan machines, a voter must fill out a piece of paper ballot and then scan the ballot through the machine.  If poll workers are properly trained and prepared, a failed machine should not cause too much disruption.  Voters can still fill out ballots, and poll workers can ensure they are placed in a secure box and counted later.  At the close of polling places it is necessary to make sure those ballots are counted, and the total number of ballots is reconciled with the number of people who signed in.

Of course, if poll workers are not trained, or do not have enough resources (like extra bins for storing ballots) the problems can be huge.  For instance, if poll workers don’t provide people with a secure place to place their completed ballots, or if they stop people from voting altogether while machines are down, long lines may result.  We know that long lines can discourage people from voting.  And failing to secure and account for all ballots and any discrepancies at the end of the day can cause confusion and potentially disenfranchise many voters.

I don’t know how long the lines were in Detroit.  I only know that there are reports of discrepancies between the poll books and the machine counts of ballots in hundreds of precincts.  It’s pretty clear that this is related to the problems with the voting machines on Election Day.  I can think of four potential reasons for these reconciliation problems: (1) while the machines were down some ballots were put aside and never counted; (2) some votes were put aside and counted at a central scanner later, and therefore the machine count in the polling place does not match the poll book signatures; (3) replacement machines were brought in, but the poll book signatures were only reconciled with the machine counts of one of two machines; (4) some votes were run through a second time at end of day, or (as Detroit’s Election Director suggested) paper jams caused some votes to be counted more than once.

Regardless of whether the recount goes forward, the State of Michigan should conduct an audit to figure out why this discrepancy seems to be so widespread. Did votes go uncounted?  Were all contingency plans followed for dealing with machines when they failed? Were the state’s reconciliation procedures followed at the closing of polls? If they were, are they sufficient to reconcile discrepancies from 610 precincts?

Unlike many states, Michigan is likely to replace its antiquated equipment before its next major election.  In fact, the state has already solicited bids for new equipment.  But regardless of what kind of equipment it has, it should understand if there were poll worker or procedural failures in Detroit and Wayne County on Election Day, so that it can avoid such failures in the future.  Meanwhile, counties and states around the country are facing a crisis of aging equipment that is more and more likely to fail, with insufficient funds to replace them.

President Obama’s Commission on Election Administration noted in 2013 that we are facing a crisis of aging voting equipment.  In a blog post yesterday, Bob Bauer, co-chair of that Commission asked whether President Elect Trump “will be prepared to work with the Congress, the election administration community, and voting rights organizations around the country on an adequately funded program to replace… worn-out equipment.”

We should certainly hope he does.  The 2016 Presidential election was close, but it wasn’t so close that what happened in Detroit should cast doubt over the entire outcome.  Next time, we might not be so lucky.




9
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saintfool said:
(4) some votes were run through a second time at end of day, or (as Detroit’s Election Director suggested) paper jams caused some votes to be counted more than once.
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“It’s not good,” conceded Daniel Baxter, elections director for the city of Detroit.

He blamed the discrepancies on the city’s decade-old voting machines, saying 87 optical scanners broke on Election Day. Many jammed when voters fed ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if ballots are inserted multiple times. Poll workers are supposed to adjust counters to reflect a single vote but in many cases failed to do so, causing the discrepancies, Baxter said.
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- Well gosh, it's almost as though one could double count votes in that precinct by simply not fixing the counter.

 
saintfool said:
Well, actually this seems to be the problem:

Voter IDs and laws for them would have little effect if the machines are crap.
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He followed up with the comment that most of the machines were only off by a vote or two.  These recounts are always pretty tight (off by only a few hundred).  The system works pretty well.

 
saintfool said:
(2) some votes were put aside and counted at a central scanner later, and therefore the machine count in the polling place does not match the poll book signatures
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So... there is a central scanner where some ballots are counted later.... why?

- Sorry for all the posts, but you can see that each of these supposed 'mistakes' create a process which is wide open for manipulation.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Why would this happen? Did someone misplace a machine?
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Amazon Delivery Guy: You ordered one machine?! Well, I checked with the head office. You can keep the second because you have been a Prime member since 2012!

Polling Site Captain: Thanks, Amazon! Now, let's go stream some "Fleabag"

 
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saintfool said:
Amazon Delivery Guy: You ordered one machine?! Well, I checked with the head office. You can keep the second because you have been a Prime member since 2012!
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:shrug: Ha, lol, I mean seriously. 'Sorry lady, this is what the order says, I'm not lugging these things all the way back to Kalamazoo yaknow...'

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
:shrug: Ha, lol, I mean seriously. 'Sorry lady, this is what the order says, I'm not lugging these things all the way back to Kalamazoo yaknow...'
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I can understand it on some level too. A situation where the recipient only expected to have one machine but a second one arrives with it. Something like "I'll sign for the one - which matches my invoice - but not the second." Go put it over there in the corner while I give Ray at the County Board of Elections a call." Things get busy or Ray doesn't call back or whatever. It happens all the time in logistics. 

 
saintfool said:
I can understand it on some level too. A situation where the recipient only expected to have one machine but a second one arrives with it. Something like "I'll sign for the one - which matches my invoice - but not the second." Go put it over there in the corner while I give Ray at the County Board of Elections a call." Things get busy or Ray doesn't call back or whatever. It happens all the time in logistics. 
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I get it, I admit I just come from a very cynical place when it comes to this stuff.

If you look at the law just one ballot overcounted can actually halt a recount, which as the article suggests incentivizes (either lazy or nefarious) poll workers to overcount because that essentially keeps regulators from checking their work.

In your Amazon comp if I was a delivery guy delivering boxes who wanted to make some money on the side that would probably mean that every time I was delivering boxes  I would always put a few extra on the truck. If anyone ever wanted to see if I was skimming all I had to do was show that someone had mistakenly put too many on the truck, so guess what you have to stop the count. It's kind of nuts.

 
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I know me and a couple other Colorado guys probably sound like a broken record, but seriously, other states need to take a look at how we do it here:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2016/03/colorado-voting-reforms-early-results

No lines, every vote 100% trackable, reduced cost. Turnout didn't go up but we were already well above national averages and had a healthy vote by mail process before the last set of reforms. I bet other states would see healthy participation increases.

 
Net approval rating for Vladimir Putin:

Democrats
July 2014: -54
Dec 2016: -62

Republicans
July 2014: -66
Dec 2016: -10
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When the lemmings are told to fall in line, it's a rush to see who can get there first.

Party over country for 28% of them.

 
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Insiders: Trump Team Dangled Ambassadorships to Lure A-List Inauguration Singers (Exclusive)


“My first thought was, ‘Are you joking?’ But no, it was serious”

President-elect Donald Trump’s team is struggling so hard to book A-list performers for his inaugural festivities that it offered ambassadorships to at least two talent bookers if they could deliver marquee names, the bookers told TheWrap.

The bookers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said they were approached by members of Trump’s Presidential Inaugural Committee in recent weeks with offers of cash or even plush diplomatic posts in exchange for locking in singers.

The first insider said he was “shocked” at the proposal: “Never in a million years have I heard something so crazy,” he said. “That was the moment I almost dropped the phone.”

...

But according to the insider, there was no ambiguity about the ambassadorship offer. “My first thought was, ‘Are you joking?'” he said. “But no, it was serious.”

The insider, who has secured talent with the star power Trump’s team is seeking for past inaugurations, said he “didn’t like what was going on” and politely declined the offer. The conversation lasted only a few minutes, so no additional specifics were discussed, he said.

A second insider said he was offered a government post, including an ambassadorship, if he could wrangle a top artist. The insider, a talent manager, said he knew at least two other people who have been offered similar deals, but who did not wish to speak to the news media.

Asked how the subject of a possible ambassadorship came up, the second recruiter said he was offered “access to the administration.”

“They said they were in the process of  ‘figuring out posts, ambassadorships and commissions’ if that was of any interest,” the manager said.

The manager said he declined the offer and did not ask which ambassadorships were on the table. ...
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http://www.thewrap.com/insiders-trump-team-dangles-ambassadorships-to-lure-a-list-inauguration-singers-exclusive/

- So clearly - W.T. Flying F.

- Secondly, I think we have a decent shot at a Blagojevich situation in the near future....
 
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Source: Twitter cut out of Trump tech meeting over failed emoji deal


Twitter was told it was "bounced" from Wednesday's meeting between tech executives and President-elect Donald Trump in retribution for refusing during the campaign to allow an emoji version of the hashtag #CrookedHillary, according to a source close to the situation.

Trump adviser Sean Spicer later denied the report, telling MSNBC that "the conference table was only so big." ...
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- Actual table not big enough for Twitter.

 
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-officials-putin-personally-involved-u-s-election-hack-n696146

U.S. intelligence officials now believe with "a high level of confidence" that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in the covert Russian campaign to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News. 

Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said. 

Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.

 
Bucky86 said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-officials-putin-personally-involved-u-s-election-hack-n696146

U.S. intelligence officials now believe with "a high level of confidence" that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in the covert Russian campaign to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News. 

Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said. 

Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.
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This is that "Fake news" everyone is talking about - isn't it?

How the #### would anyone know of Putin's personal motives - assuming he was directly involved?  I can buy that he wanted it done, and directed his people to make it happen.  But, I just can't see him directing the specifics of how/what was released and when.  This feels more like counter-propaganda than anything likely to be true. :shrug:

 
He has had a vendetta against Hillary Clinton, that has been known for a long time because of what she said about his elections back in the parliamentary elections of 2011. He wants to discredit American democracy and make us weaker in terms of leading the liberal democratic order. And most certainly he likes President-elect Trump's views on Russia," McFaul added. Clinton cast doubt on the integrity of Russia's elections.
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-officials-putin-personally-involved-u-s-election-hack-n696146

- Fyi for those who don't know, this happened in 2011:
 

...Issuing new warnings to two U.S. partners Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton criticized Russia for a parliamentary election she said was rigged ...

...

Speaking to the election-monitoring Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Clinton repeated criticism of Russia's weekend elections, in which Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's party won the largest share of parliament seats. Opposition politicians and election monitors say the result was inflated because of ballot-box stuffing and other vote fraud.

"Russian voters deserve a full investigation of electoral fraud and manipulation," Clinton said. Russia's top diplomat was present at the meeting in the Lithuanian capital, but the two did not plan to meet separately

...

Later, Clinton met with activists from Belarus and encouraged them to continue opposing a recent crackdown by President Alexander Lukashenko's regime.

"It is inconceivable that in Europe today, in December of 2011, the Lukashenko government is behaving the way it is behaving," she told lawyers, educators, bloggers and others.

Speaking at a museum dedicated to the lost Jewish culture and history of Lithuania, Clinton again criticized Russia.

"Regardless of where you live, citizenship requires holding your government accountable," she said. Efforts to bar election monitoring by a Russian organization have undermined public faith, she said.

...
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And then....

United Russia won about 50 percent of Sunday's vote, a result that opposition politicians and election monitors said was inflated because of ballot-box stuffing and other vote fraud. It was a significant drop from the 2007 election when the party took 64 percent, gaining a two-thirds majority that allowed it to change the constitution.
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- You have to realize, these people are tetched in the head, they're nuts, but if you get between thugs and billions they will come at you.

- Personally I agree with what Hillary did. I approve of it, and the fact is that the Putin faction is just nuts but to some extent they are correct - democracy is an existential threat to them personally and their way of life.

 
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It's kind of fun to imagine the apoplectic fits people like Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh would have in the following scenarios:

Obama meets with Kanye

Obama admits peeping on underage beauty contestants

Obama caught on tape talking about grouping women

Russia accused by the CIA of helping Obama win an election he lost by 3 million popular votes

In the last one I'm pretty sure they would be lining up firing squads

 
Sinn Fein said:
This is that "Fake news" everyone is talking about - isn't it?

How the #### would anyone know of Putin's personal motives - assuming he was directly involved?  I can buy that he wanted it done, and directed his people to make it happen.  But, I just can't see him directing the specifics of how/what was released and when.  This feels more like counter-propaganda than anything likely to be true. :shrug:
Click to expand...


The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

... Now the U.S has solid information tying Putin to the operation, the intelligence officials say. Their use of the term "high confidence" implies that the intelligence is nearly incontrovertible. ...
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- I agree with awaiting some kind of official declassified report, but Putin is ex-KGB, this is what he does, this is almost (is?) cyber warfare, and he's a total revenge minded apparatchik, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that he involved himself in this personally.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
This is that "Fake news" everyone is talking about - isn't it?

How the #### would anyone know of Putin's personal motives - assuming he was directly involved?  I can buy that he wanted it done, and directed his people to make it happen.  But, I just can't see him directing the specifics of how/what was released and when.  This feels more like counter-propaganda than anything likely to be true. :shrug:
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No.

 
  The insider, who has secured talent with the star power Trump’s team is seeking for past inaugurations, said he “didn’t like what was going on” and politely declined the offer. The conversation lasted only a few minutes, so no additional specifics were discussed, he said.
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:lmao:

I'm calling :bs:   over the "didn't like what was going on" 

 
saintfool said:
Some older voting machines are like vending machines in that you feed the ballot into it like you would a dollar bill. You take your smooth, uncreased dollar into it and it's supposed to take it. How often did you get it right on the first try? In my experience, it always felt like something like a crapshoot. It spits the dollar out and you have to re-try it a few times before it accepts it. Sounds like it could be the same thing here.
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So let's see, these machines are only in heavily Democratic districts then?

 
bueno said:
So let's see, these machines are only in heavily Democratic districts then?
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The older ones are almost exclusively in inner cities and other densely populated areas with lower incomes that can't afford to replace the large number of voting machines as quickly as higher tax base per person areas can with smaller numbers.

 
bueno said:
So let's see, these machines are only in heavily Democratic districts then?
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They were feeding these things in 6 times.....but we have to worry because it's possible Russia stole an opposition research paper on Trump and leaked it to Gawker.

Is that worse than MSM news organizations colluding with the Clinton campaign?  Following scripts, having their stories approved, doing their dirty work in asking questions like asking Bernie if he's religiously Jewish, sending them debate questions in advance?  

C'Mon Man

 
bueno said:
So let's see, these machines are only in heavily Democratic districts then?
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I read earlier that other counties were having their results tossed too. But it could be a statewide problem now:

Like the rest of the state, Oakland County's voting system runs on Windows XP - an operating system that hasn't been available for purchase since 2008. The operating system is so old, Windows stopped servicing it in 2014.
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