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Official Donald Trump for President thread (6 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
I want to add: I think there are less bigots and racists than ever before- it's just that social media makes them louder than they've been. And most Trump supporters are not bigots, IMO: he simply serves as a vehicle for their disapproval of politics as usual. 
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Gee - even Tim understand Trump's popularity.

 
bueno said:
I think that is too simplistic. We have to look at why Americans support Trump. Neo-liberalism has failed, globalism has failed too many people. The ruling elite and the rich line their own pockets at the expense of a middle class that is falling behind. Working class jobs are not as well-paying because they have gone overseas. People are angry. Trump allows them to vent. It is not hard to understand that Trump's popularity is rooted in discontent with government and economic policy.

If America is not great, it is because we have spent too much time and effort making a bunch of developing world hell-holes better. (and in some cases, worse)
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So is his mantra of "Making America Great Again".

His premise is so loose, with so little substance backing it up, that even a 5th grader would recognize a plan needs more than just a catchy phrase.

 
Harry Manback said:
So is his mantra of "Making America Great Again".

His premise is so loose, with so little substance backing it up, that even a 5th grader would recognize a plan needs more than just a catchy phrase.
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He's had policies on his website for almost 9 months+. Plenty of substance for those who are actually looking to find it.

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Most folks voting for Trump avoid this thread because this is basically just a Trump bash thread, nobody that supports him is allowed to talk. it's gotten so obvious that none of you would have backed any of the GOP no matter who emerged. You just hitched your wagon to anyone that had no chance so you could rip on Trump all the way thru the election. And you either never vote anyways but say you are one party or the other as to whatever fits your foul mood and posts. 

No GOP lifer could ever say they were going to vote for Hilary. Stay home and not vote? I get it but to actually walk in and hit the button for Clinton, not sure you really hate Obama as much as you seem to lead on. 

Look at the thread. Maybe only 20-25% of the population supports him, maybe that's the rogue group where we have a private thread discussing Trump...25 of us I guess. We don't check in that much and we don't get our panties in a knot every time you all take 1 snippet and then paste it like it's his official policy. You all are using a traditional way of measuring things with a candidate that you can't put in a box. 

And now you have gone as far as to say all the people who might for Trump are the problem, to me that shows red handed you are Liberal whether you actually say it or not, whether you brainwash yourself to think otherwise, you are internet bullies and likely would never say a word if you were in the middle of a bunch of Trump supporters. 

It's not tough guy, you all are the bullies that pushed a lot of folks to private corners of this site just to have a discussion because you hate Trump that much. It's sour grapes at best and i think going forward no matter who the GOP front runner is will forever get beat down now from within the party. After trump leaves the only thing that will happen is you lose every time to a progressive when you had a mod progressive in house and chose not to back him.

His reaching out to Kasich showed he wanted to have a strong VP to handle all these problems so many of you were worried about but Kasich decides he wants nothing to do with him and shows he wasn't really wanting to be President either.  And you can also point to that and say "See, trump is not a President, he wanted the VP to do everything."

And I would agree with you because most voting for Trump only wanted him to be the face and probably never thought his actual policies would be put in place. That's the disconnect with many of you. You think all the folks backing Trump are dumb and that's not the case. He was simply a face and voice that was popular enough to win...Kasich, Christie, Carson, Bush, none of them could muster any votes, nobody believed in most of these wimpy wimps. 

And the anti-Trumps here and all over the media are doing their best to tear him up and it probably will end up working down the stretch but it's a shame that people have a chance to turn the table over and reset, the closest you might see to some kind of revolution and instead folks want more VANILLA, good for all of you. 

And when Hilary puts 2-3 Supreme Court nominees with very progressive views...who am I talking to? This board is 75% Liberal as we have found out, you all will be celebrating it seems. 
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So you are saying that you believe Trump just wants to be the figurehead and not do any of the day to day activities running the country? So Trump would be King? And who would be Prime Minister who would actually lead the country? Pence? 

 
So far, the convention has been "I Hate Hillary Clinton" and not "Make America Great"

He doesn't care to make America great, he just wants to win. 

 
Harry Manback said:
So is his mantra of "Making America Great Again".

His premise is so loose, with so little substance backing it up, that even a 5th grader would recognize a plan needs more than just a catchy phrase.
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Thank you for proving my point - that you don't get why people would vote for this guy.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
The Red Sox have won the World Series 3 times since 2004 while the Yankees have only won once.

- Brewers haven't won in that whole time. Although, we did win the division once.

The Rangers haven't won the cup since 1994.

- Um, Admirals did what?

The new X-Files was kinda lame.

- Haven't watched it.

Someone thought it was a good idea to remake Ghostbusters.

- It's a kids movie. Haven't seen it myself.

There are no Pokemon's in my office.

- Haven't played any Pokemon ever.

Stephen A. Smith gets paid to talk.

- He belongs on Fox News with his own live show at 2am.

The last couple Die Hard movies were really bad.

- Haven't seen any.

There are 3 Godfather movies but 4 Sharknado movies.

- Haven't seen any.

Chris Berman is still on TV.

- Should pair up with Steven A.

Khalesi hasn't started a war in the west yet.

- It's coming like every fanboi seeing Khalesi naked.
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bueno said:
I think that is too simplistic. We have to look at why Americans support Trump. Neo-liberalism has failed, globalism has failed too many people. The ruling elite and the rich line their own pockets at the expense of a middle class that is falling behind. Working class jobs are not as well-paying because they have gone overseas. People are angry. Trump allows them to vent. It is not hard to understand that Trump's popularity is rooted in discontent with government and economic policy.

If America is not great, it is because we have spent too much time and effort making a bunch of developing world hell-holes better. (and in some cases, worse)
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The military-industrial complex and the ability for corporations to control politicians with money is the problem. The question is what do we do about it?

 
Eminence said:
Introduction: The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:

  • On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States.
  • On day 2 Mexico will immediately protest. They receive approximately $24 billion a year in remittances from Mexican nationals working in the United States. The majority of that amount comes from illegal aliens. It serves as de facto welfare for poor families in Mexico. There is no significant social safety net provided by the state in Mexico.
  • On day 3 tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds needed to the United States to pay for the wall, the Trump Administration will not promulgate the final rule, and the regulation will not go into effect.
  • Trade tariffs, or enforcement of existing trade rules: There is no doubt that Mexico is engaging in unfair subsidy behavior that has eliminated thousands of U.S. jobs, and which we are obligated to respond to; the impact of any tariffs on the price imports will be more than offset by the economic and income gains of increased production in the United States, in addition to revenue from any tariffs themselves. Mexico needs access to our markets much more than the reverse, so we have all the leverage and will win the negotiation. By definition, if you have a large trade deficit with a nation, it means they are selling far more to you than the reverse - thus they, not you, stand to lose from enforcing trade rules through tariffs (as has been done to save many U.S. industries in the past).
  • Cancelling visas: Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Mexico is totally dependent on the United States as a release valve for its own poverty - our approvals of hundreds of thousands of visas to their nationals every year is one of our greatest leverage points. We also have leverage through business and tourist visas for important people in the Mexican economy. Keep in mind, the United States has already taken in 4X more migrants than any other country on planet earth, producing lower wages and higher unemployment for our own citizens and recent migrants.
  • Visa fees: Even a small increase in visa fees would pay for the wall. This includes fees on border crossing cards, of which more than 1 million are issued a year. The border-crossing card is also one of the greatest sources of illegal immigration into the United States, via overstays. Mexico is also the single largest recipient of U.S. green cards, which confer a path to U.S. citizenship. Again, we have the leverage so Mexico will back down.
Conclusion: Mexico has taken advantage of us in another way as well: gangs, drug traffickers and cartels have freely exploited our open borders and committed vast numbers of crimes inside the United States. The United States has borne the extraordinary daily cost of this criminal activity, including the cost of trials and incarcerations. Not to mention the even greater human cost. We have the moral high ground here, and all the leverage. It is time we use it in order to Make America Great Again.
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So, his way to get Mexico to pay for the wall is to blackmail them...Got it

 
timschochet said:
It doesn't mean I approve. 

And although most Trump supporters aren't racist, IMO it's pretty irresponsible to use the Presidency as a form of protest vote about the status quo. 
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It is weird that we have Trump on record for saying racists things, but you seem to think Trump supporters are not racist. I guess a non-racist can support a racists - right?

 
badmojo1006 said:
So, his way to get Mexico to pay for the wall is to blackmail them...Got it
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For the moment, let's take this plan seriously. 

The flaw in Trump's thinking here is that nation-states have pride. Mexico would rather subject itself to utter poverty rather than surrender an inch on a deal like this. That's why you can't negotiate with other countries in the same way you negotiate with businesses. Trump's plan, if it ever saw the light of day, would be catastrophic for us. And his similar idea for dealing with China is even worse. 

 
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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
75%?  No freaking way.
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This election cycle has proven it. The country is different but if you are on the internet 75% of the day like most in here, you're socially engineered to be a Liberal, it's hard not to if you are on social media or any media for that matter, it permeates IMHO. 

Political Correctness is a Liberal Mass Weapon of Destruction 

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
It is weird that we have Trump on record for saying racists things, but you seem to think Trump supporters are not racist. I guess a non-racist can support a racists - right?
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Of course. It happens all the time. 

Look FSM, somewhere in the range of 50-100 million people are going to vote for Donald Trump this coming November. Are you suggesting they're all racists? 

 
" The Second Amendment to our Constitution is clear. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed upon. Period. "

So clear, I mean, who the hell can tell me I shouldn't own an RPG? Why the hell can't I have a tank buster? Stinger missile? Don't tell me what to do.

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
The military-industrial complex and the ability for corporations to control politicians with money is the problem. The question is what do we do about it?
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That is certainly one of the problems. So is the flight of manufacturing jobs overseas. It is funny, back when NAFTA was passed, I was sitting in a meeting with a bunch of other corporate planners, all of us with experience in corporate governance. We used a lot of scenario planning in setting corporate strategy. All of us agreed that globalization would destroy the middle class, cause manufacturing to go overseas,  and push a large portion of the working class into flipping hamburgers (we didn't see call centers coming though). That is exactly what is happening and exactly why there is so much frustration in those economic classes right now.

 
timschochet said:
For the moment, let's take this plan seriously. 

The flaw in Trump's thinking here is that nation-states have pride. Mexico would rather subject itself to other poverty rather than surrender an inch on a deal like this. That's why you can't negotiate with other countries in the same way you negotiate with businesses. Trump's plan, if it ever saw the light of day, would be catastrophic for us. And his similar idea for dealing with China is even worse. 
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There are any number of practical and political real-world flaws with the plan as well. Many of them documented here.

Kudos to whoever Em copied that from for actually taking the time to cite the relevant statutes and regs, though.  All too rare these days.

 
timschochet said:
It doesn't mean I approve. 

And although most Trump supporters aren't racist, IMO it's pretty irresponsible to use the Presidency as a form of protest vote about the status quo. 
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So Tim, is there any former GOP presidential candidate you would have supported over Hillary?

 
bueno said:
Freedom maybe?
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Freedom, Soul, it breaks the will of people. 

It's similar to antisemitism laws to shut down any conversation that isn't Pro-whatever. 

The minute someone starts to question gay marriage for example, they are labeled a bigot and a hater. I'm for gay marriage in case you need to know. But I often wonder what it's like for those who are Christian because they are being asked to tolerate something that goes directly against their religion. We seem to try and be understanding to a lot of these other foreign religions but Christians have to put up with all of it and not say a word, for the most part in America that's what they do. 

 
badmojo1006 said:
Cry me a river...It is not and you know it
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Sure it is, you better think about that a second. I'm gonna link to something funny but I use it as a way to measure political correctness. 

Sam Kinison

Rock Against Drugs would never fly any more. So much stuff that was muttered by Carlin, Kinison, many others can't even be discussed any more. I think things are getting worse not better or more open. 

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Freedom, Soul, it breaks the will of people. 

It's similar to antisemitism laws to shut down any conversation that isn't Pro-whatever. 

The minute someone starts to question gay marriage for example, they are labeled a bigot and a hater. I'm for gay marriage in case you need to know. But I often wonder what it's like for those who are Christian because they are being asked to tolerate something that goes directly against their religion. We seem to try and be understanding to a lot of these other foreign religions but Christians have to put up with all of it and not say a word, for the most part in America that's what they do. 
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What anti-Semitism laws are you referring to and what conversation have they shut down?

And sorry, but having to tolerate something that goes directly against your religion is a consequence of the 1st Amendment.

 
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