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Official Donald Trump for President thread (4 Viewers)

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HellToupee said:
In a normal election it definitely holds true but this isn't a normal year.,I really don't think anyone knows what will happen on Election Day right now. At this time Dukakis was up by 17 , things happen
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Technically, he was up 7 in August, but the point stands. He was up 17 at one point.

 
NREC34 said:
If Gore could've held on and won that, just think how far back we'd have to go to find a time when America was great. 
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Obviously some point in GHWB's term. Perhaps before he went back on his pledge not to raise taxes? Before he negotiated NAFTA? Before he threw up on the Japanese Prime Minister?

 
moleculo said:
sorry, I'll use smaller words and spell it out for the Trumpies.

If Trump was just a typical poor candidate, I would be voting 3rd party becasue I really don't think Hillary is fit to be president and I don't want to vote for her, but the country would be fine either way.  We have survived bad presidents before, we will survive bad presidents again.  However, I believe that Trump would do massive damage to our country in terms of foreign relations, economics, race relations, pretty much any dimension you would measure a president by.  Therefore, I have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary - just to do everything I can to prevent a Trump presidency.
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You would think that, but then when you look at the damage that she has already done to national security with her email snafus, the damage she did to the Middle East and Europe, the damage she did to the primary process for the Democratic Party....I don't think that's an out...it's Johnson or bust ( unless sone of the two major people drop out)

 
The candidate that led after the conventions almost always wins, and the further away you get from the conventions, that only gets stronger.  The race is over.

 
Almost every single race got tighter after the conventions.  Maybe the only time it did not was 1984.   But you don't see the race flip to the other candidate on election day except in 1980.  

 
Riversco said:
The candidate that led after the conventions almost always wins, and the further away you get from the conventions, that only gets stronger.  The race is over.
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Probably.

Best we can hope for now is that one of the candidates says a bunch of dumb #### daily to keep us interested.

Fingers crossed!

 
HellToupee said:
In a normal election it definitely holds true but this isn't a normal year.,I really don't think anyone knows what will happen on Election Day right now.
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:lmao:  actually a lot of us know what's going to happen. YOU don't, but you prefer to fly in the face of reality. 

 
massraider said:
Probably.

Best we can hope for now is that one of the candidates says a bunch of dumb #### daily to keep us interested.

Fingers crossed!
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Well the bigger issue is that this is the scenario where Hillary wins and the GOP controls the House, setting up a potentially massive Obamacare crisis over the next 4 years as providers start fleeing the system.  There is 0% chance of ever dislodging the GOP from the House, so the solution will not be a democrat one.  Either Hillary fully adopts the republican health care platform (whatever it turns out to be), or she is voted out in 2020.  Either way Hillary will be a very weak president with little ability to shape events.  She will be the first president elected without both houses of congress in her pocket since Bush in 1988.  The country hasn't seen a weak president take office in so long that for most this will be their first time.   

 
The electoral college won't help Hillary either.  Bush won 426 electoral votes in 1988 and the democrat congress stonewalled him anyway.

 
Riversco said:
Well the bigger issue is that this is the scenario where Hillary wins and the GOP controls the House, setting up a potentially massive Obamacare crisis over the next 4 years as providers start fleeing the system.  There is 0% chance of ever dislodging the GOP from the House, so the solution will not be a democrat one.  Either Hillary fully adopts the republican health care platform (whatever it turns out to be), or she waits until the remnants of the crumbling Republican party are voted out when she is re-elected until  is voted out in 2020.  Either way Hillary will be a very weak president with little ability to shape events.  She will be the first president elected without both houses of congress in her pocket since Bush in 1988.  The country hasn't seen a weak president take office in so long that for most this will be their first time.   
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Scenario you forgot.

 
Neither the single payer nor the repeal and replace people will be able to achieve their goals so Hillary's first order of business has to be making some repairs to the law and while she's at it, finding ways to stop the increases in drug prices. They should give Medicare the ability to negotiate drug prices but I'm guessing Big Pharma already has Hillary's word that she won't do it.

 
WASHINGTON (AP) — A firm run by Donald Trump's campaign chairman directly orchestrated a covert Washington lobbying operation on behalf of Ukraine's ruling political party, attempting to sway American public opinion in favor of the country's pro-Russian government, emails obtained by The Associated Press show. Paul Manafort and his deputy, Rick Gates, never disclosed their work as foreign agents as required under federal law.

The lobbying included attempts to gain positive press coverage of Ukrainian officials in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and The Associated Press. Another goal: undercutting American public sympathy for the imprisoned rival of Ukraine's then-president. At the time, European and American leaders were pressuring Ukraine to free her.

Gates personally directed the work of two prominent Washington lobbying firms in the matter, the emails show. He worked for Manafort's political consulting firm at the time.

Manafort and Gates' activities carry outsized importance, since they have steered Trump's campaign since April. The pair also played a formative role building out Trump's campaign operation after pushing out an early rival. Trump shook up his campaign's organization again this week, but Manafort and Gates retain their titles and much of their influence. The new disclosures about their work come as Trump faces criticism for his friendly overtures to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Trump said Thursday night that, if elected, he will ask senior officials in his administration not to accept speaking fees, for five years after leaving office, from corporations that lobby "or from any entity tied to a foreign government." He said it was among his efforts to "restore honor to government."

Manafort and Gates have previously said they were not doing work that required them to register as foreign agents. Neither commented when reached by the AP on Thursday.

The emails show Gates personally directed two Washington lobbying firms, Mercury LLC and the Podesta Group Inc., between 2012 and 2014 to set up meetings between a top Ukrainian official and senators and congressmen on influential committees involving Ukrainian interests. Gates noted in the emails that the official, Ukraine's foreign minister, did not want to use his own embassy in the United States to help coordinate the visits.

Gates also directed the firms to gather information in the U.S. on a rival lobbying operation, including a review of its public lobbying disclosures, to determine who was behind that effort, the emails show.

And Gates directed efforts to undercut sympathy for Yulia Tymoshenko, an imprisoned rival of then-President Viktor Yanukovych. The Ukrainian leader eventually fled the country in February 2014 during a popular revolt prompted in part by his government's crackdown on protesters and close ties to Russia.

The emails do not describe details about the role of Manafort, who was Gates' boss at the firm, DMP International LLC. Current and former employees at Mercury and the Podesta Group, some of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because they are subject to non-disclosure agreements, told the AP that Manafort oversaw the lobbying efforts and spoke by phone about them. Gates was directing actions and seeking information during the project using an email address at DMP International, which he still uses.
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HellToupee said:
In a normal election it definitely holds true but this isn't a normal year.,I really don't think anyone knows what will happen on Election Day right now. At this time Dukakis was up by 17 , things happen
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Wait, what?

Dukakis was down by 7 at this point in time in the 88 election. And he ended up losing by about 8.

 
proninja said:
This is my normal rationale, and a big reason why I voted for GJ in '12. Washington is going to go blue anyway, so I think my vote matters *more* for a third party than it does for either of the 2 majors. 

But I want the world to see Trump repudiated strongly by our electorate. He is *so* far beyond the pale and I am *so* disgusted by him and everything he stands for that I may hold my nose and vote for Hillary. 

So really I have no idea what I'm doing. 
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I truly believe it needs to be a total repudiation or we will have this all over again. 

Also, Hillary is not going to hold this polling lead. She is too flawed.  She will need every vote. 

 
apalmer said:
Scenario you forgot.
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Not this democrat party.  The democrat party has shifted far to the left since 2008.  There are now large sections of the nation that will never vote for the democrats and their current platform.  The democrats are going to have to shift to the right quite a bit to take the House. 

Before Obama won in 2008, people who loved guns and hated the idea of public health care really didn't feel threatened by the democrat party.  They do now.  Those voters are lost and because of that, the House is permanently in the hands of the GOP.  To win the house in the next 4 years, the democrats would need to reverse course on some major issue like guns, or health care, or abortion, etc.  That won't happen.

 
I lot of voters in this country would prefer to see health care burn before giving their vote to a democrat to make a bigger public health care program.  You have lost that before you started.

 
Riversco said:
Not this democrat party.  The democrat party has shifted far to the left since 2008.  There are now large sections of the nation that will never vote for the democrats and their current platform.  The democrats are going to have to shift to the right quite a bit to take the House. 

Before Obama won in 2008, people who loved guns and hated the idea of public health care really didn't feel threatened by the democrat party.  They do now.  Those voters are lost and because of that, the House is permanently in the hands of the GOP.  To win the house in the next 4 years, the democrats would need to reverse course on some major issue like guns, or health care, or abortion, etc.  That won't happen.
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Completely disagree.

85% of them are GOP Lite as far as I'm concerned.

If they had really shifted to the left, we'd be talking about Bernie vs Trump right now.

In what way has the party moved "far to the left" since 2008?

 
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Riversco said:
Not this democrat party.  The democrat party has shifted far to the left since 2008.  There are now large sections of the nation that will never vote for the democrats and their current platform.  The democrats are going to have to shift to the right quite a bit to take the House. 

Before Obama won in 2008, people who loved guns and hated the idea of public health care really didn't feel threatened by the democrat party.  They do now.  Those voters are lost and because of that, the House is permanently in the hands of the GOP.  To win the house in the next 4 years, the democrats would need to reverse course on some major issue like guns, or health care, or abortion, etc.  That won't happen.
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:lmao:

Literally none of this is true.  The Dems got more total votes than the GOP in House races as recently as 2012.  The GOP majority in the House is pretty much entirely a function of gerrymandering.  To win the House back the Dems need to win back statehouses so they can stop the GOP from gaming the districts to their advantage, particularly in 2020 after the next census comes out.  They also need to win more state houses to stop the GOP from repressing minority votes through changes to voting laws as the NC GOP was recently caught doing. That's where the fight over the House majority is fought.

 
apalmer said:
Scenario you forgot.
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The health care and insurance lobby is backing Hillary. While people (we all) have been talking about Trump wrenching a quarter of the party from the GOP meanwhile the Clintons have been taking back the Democratic Party. And like 08 the Dems elected in red and purple states will just be adhering to their own red/purple constituency anyway. But that's a conversation for another day.

 
Imagine the Obama 2009-10 administration but without Obama and instead someone with poor persuasion skills who has an ethic that says that corporations and lobbyists are partners, actual constituencies, then try to implement liberal and progressive policies. Cut to 2017.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Imagine the Obama 2009-10 administration but without Obama and instead someone with poor persuasion skills who has an ethic that says that corporations and lobbyists are partners, actual constituencies, then try to implement liberal and progressive policies. Cut to 2017.
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In terms of Congress, I think Hillary has much better persuasion skills than Obama does. 

 
timschochet said:
In terms of Congress, I think Hillary has much better persuasion skills than Obama does. 
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Sure they have common interests like I just described. You're the one who said Hillary views corporations & Wall Street as constituencies, you were right, it's a great point.

 
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timschochet said:
In terms of Congress, I think Hillary has much better persuasion skills than Obama does. 
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The republicans impeached her husband. Then the clintons turned public opinion against them and rubbed their noses in it. I highly doubt the republicans in congress will ever work with her. Too much bad blood. 

 
Riversco said:
The republicans impeached her husband. Then the clintons turned public opinion against them and rubbed their noses in it. I highly doubt the republicans in congress will ever work with her. Too much bad blood. 
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People should remember that even while Bill and Congress were at each other's throats on impeachment they crafted a lot of conservative legislation together - anti-crime bill, Wall Street deregulation, welfare reform, balanced budgets, etc. These things are not mutually exclusive.

 
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As a Trump supporter what I find humerous are articles like this from CNN

CNN Poll

it is almost like CNN decided wow we have been running Trump hit pieces non-stop and we are worried that people will actually believe all of them, think Clinton has this in the bag and not turn out in numbers we need.  We better manufacture drama and fear for ratings sake.

 
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Courtjester said:
As a Trump supporter what I find humerous are articles like this from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/18/politics/pew-research-center-poll-2016-election/index.html 

it is almost like CNN decided wow we have been running Trump hit pieces non-stop and we are worried that people will actually believe all of them, think Clinton has this in the bag and not turn out in numbers we need.  We better manufacture drama and fear for ratings sake.
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Link needs fixing amigo.

 
Riversco said:
Not this democrat party.  The democrat party has shifted far to the left since 2008.  There are now large sections of the nation that will never vote for the democrats and their current platform.  The democrats are going to have to shift to the right quite a bit to take the House. 

Before Obama won in 2008, people who loved guns and hated the idea of public health care really didn't feel threatened by the democrat party.  They do now.  Those voters are lost and because of that, the House is permanently in the hands of the GOP.  To win the house in the next 4 years, the democrats would need to reverse course on some major issue like guns, or health care, or abortion, etc.  That won't happen.
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:lmao:  I really don't think I could come up with more incorrect information packed into one post even if I tried. Literally nothing is even close to accurate.

 
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Riversco said:
Not this democrat party.  The democrat party has shifted far to the left since 2008.  There are now large sections of the nation that will never vote for the democrats and their current platform.  The democrats are going to have to shift to the right quite a bit to take the House. 

Before Obama won in 2008, people who loved guns and hated the idea of public health care really didn't feel threatened by the democrat party.  They do now.  Those voters are lost and because of that, the House is permanently in the hands of the GOP.  To win the house in the next 4 years, the democrats would need to reverse course on some major issue like guns, or health care, or abortion, etc.  That won't happen.
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People were worried Obama would take their guns from the start. ..he campaigned in health care reform.

Saying before he was elected people didnt fear.....BS, the whole negative campaign against him was largely the fear of those 2 things.

Major shift left since then? It still makes me laugh that people think this.  The country has shifted left socially...i dont think the democratic party has shifted left at all.

 
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