** Official ** Eagles 2008 Thread (3 Viewers)

[Jeff Pasquino]

just curious, but can anyone tell me what exactly happened on this play? I was at the game and could not figure out how this occured.

3-4-PIT 39 (7:49) (Shotgun) PENALTY on PHI-98-M.Patterson, Defensive Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 39 - No Play.

I wasn't sure either. I assumed he must have touched the ball while the center was trying to grab it or something??

The only time I've ever seen Delay of Game called on the defense is for touching the ball before the snap or preventing an offensive player from being able to line up. Since it obviously wasn't the latter, it must have been the former. Not that the announcers were any help.

This seems to be the most plausible. Again, neither the officials nor CBS helped us out here.The rules state that:

"A defensive player aligned in a stationary position within one yard of the line of scrimmage cannot make a quick and abrupt action that is not part of normal defensive player movements in an attempt to cause an offensive player to false start." When this foul occurs, the whistle is blown immediately and the play shut down.

This occurred in the 2004 Super Bowl when the defender jerked his arm, trying to make the offensive man move; thus creating the "delay of game defense," which is called DOD in officiating circles.

-former NFL official Jerry Markbreit

Source

It is also true that if the defense hits, moves or kicks the ball it is DOD. It is also DOD if they pile on the ballcarrier and don't let him up with the clock running.

 

[scratcher]

Anyone have any word on Abiamiri? I'm excited to see him on the field and have not heard anything about him.

 

[hotdogcollars]

Anyone have any word on Abiamiri? I'm excited to see him on the field and have not heard anything about him.

hears he was out this week. Sorry, no link as i heard it on NFL radio on sirius.

 

[hotdogcollars]

Great game. What I loved most was the Eagles playing Oh no you didnt! on the Dawkins flying forced fumble.

that was...awesome! I'm getting that B Dawk poster of him flying towards Big Benny when it comes out. Does anyone have a link to an image of that play?

 

[Jedimaster21]

Since we're talking about Donovan so much, this may add some interesting quantification of his abilities and "clutch" factor:

McNabb - Clutch?

McNabb's clutch-play issue

Still, it's enlightening to compare how some of the other elite quarterbacks have fared in the same situation during their careers.

Tom Brady, for example, is 39-10 in games decided by seven points or fewer, including a 7-2 mark in the postseason. Maybe that means he has a better team, a better coach, and a better plan at the end of games. That's all part of a quarterback's greatness, too. But it most certainly means that Brady has made more big plays at the ends of games than McNabb.

Peyton Manning is 45-32 in games decided by seven points or fewer, but just 2-4 in the postseason. As brilliantly as Manning has played in his career, he also was widely criticized for his failure to come through in the clutch until he won a Super Bowl two seasons ago.

Brett Favre is 62-47 in games decided by seven points or fewer, but only 3-4 in the postseason. He, too, gets a hall pass because of that one Super Bowl victory. Favre, like McNabb, hasn't always come through in the clutch, a fact Eagles fans saw firsthand in a playoff game after the 2003 season. It was his awful wounded-duck interception to Brian Dawkins in overtime that sealed the Packers' fate after McNabb had delivered a miracle with a fourth-and-26 throw to Freddie Mitchell.

and each of those guys put it together enough times to win a superbowl. McNabb is 1-3 in NFC Champ games and 0-1 in his lone SB. A SB that he had a chance to win. Unfortunately, he lost his lunch and then the game that day

What was Peyton Manning's record in championship games and playoff games before his Superbowl victory?What about Elway?

You're ignoring the fact that it takes a great clutch player to even get his team in those positions.

mcnabb is an amazing talent. he can put up stats with the best of em.

yet he becomes noticeably worse when there is real pressure on him. 4th and 26's are when his talent returns because the pressure is off.

he isn't AWFUL in the clutch, but he goes from being a top 5 qb to a below average one when the game is on the line. you can plainly see him back there tapdancing around nervously afraid to make any mistake. cant believe those #### eating grins he pulls after making game-ruining mistakes. it looks like hes relieved that the burden of being in control of the outcome in a favorable position has been lifted off his shoulders. he has an inexplicable nonchalant attitude after every single game. no matter what happened its the same disinterested, detached tone of voice.

What I've realized is that he is sensitive and insecure and he doesn't really care about winning. The opinion of the general public has always been more important to him than winning. Luckily he is talented enough that he wins games basically by accident, but it is quite obvious to me that he doesn't have the same killer competitive "MUST WIN" mentality that almost all of the QBs in this league seem to have.

Westbrook has single-handedly won games at the end so many more times than Mcnabb ever has or will.

Not sure how a dumpoff to westbrook counts as mcnabb engineering a comeback(though he has been known to miss this pass quite frequently so I guess I should give him some credit for not throwing this into the ground)

tl;dr: An incredible talent turned into a sensitive baby by an overprotective mom.

I can't believe that you are an Eagles fan and have this perception. Your statements couldn't be further from the truth and are simply not accurate. McNabb has had to endure more criticism than almost any QB due to his injuries and the Philly fans' tendencies. He has dealt with this extremely well, and has lasted through it and become a better QB because of it. If you aren't mentally strong, then you wouldn't last 10 years as the starting Eagles QB. I guess this last week when he came back in after the chest injury, he wasn't showing the "MUST WIN" attitude. How about a few years ago when he played the second half on a broken ankle and threw 4 TD passes? Or dealing with the criticism last year despite recovering from a knee injury and dealing with the pressure of having Kolb drafted to possibly replace him? He had the second highest completion percentage of his career last year. I obviously don't know you, but when people post stuff like this, it really hurts the Eagles fans' reputation. Not all fans are bitter and fail to see what McNabb has meant to the franchise.

 

[Lehigh98]

You don't have to be a McNabb fan to be an Eagles fan, its not a rule or anything.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Great game. What I loved most was the Eagles playing Oh no you didnt! on the Dawkins flying forced fumble.

that was...awesome! I'm getting that B Dawk poster of him flying towards Big Benny when it comes out. Does anyone have a link to an image of that play?

Here ya go, not sure how to copy a flash pic but I am sure someone here knows how to do it:Pic 1

Pic 15

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Andy Reid sucks at game situation management.

He blew it again.

Hey Andy, guess what - if you fail to score on third and goal with 4 minutes to go, you'll be going for it on 4th down. No need to talk it over and call a timeout - call a play instead.

That plus no Westbrook cost them that game. That'll haunt them all year.

 

[ReggieHammond]

Horrible play calling all game but what about the damn kicker who can make anything longer than 40 yards! If he makes even one of those kicks they don't even need to go for it on 4th down.

Akers has been horrible from 40+ for 3 years now yet they haven't brought in any serious competition for his job. How can you expect to win games with any consistency when you can't make any FGs from more than 40 yards?

 

[scratcher]

Sigh, what a game. Am I pessimistic for knowing Akers would miss anything past 40? Better question, if I knew this, why doesnt the organization? I really thought they would bring in a kicker or draft one (instead of drafting 12 LBs).

Playcalling in the redzone is again the bane of this organization. Weren't we on the one twice last night and came away with field goals? Running it up the middle wasn't working, care to try anything else?

Why wasn't Hunt in on any of those plays when Buckhalter went out? He's much better in pass protection than Booker.

What is happening with our secondary? Aren't these guys supposed to be good in pass protection? The D-line and LBs are doing their share by stopping the run (xept the one time we needed to stop them to force the punt in the last series)...

I found this to be a much more disappointing loss than the Dallas loss. Sure, we're missing Westbrook, Andrews and LJ but come on... Brian Griese lit them up... We can't afford to get behind in this division.

 

[JetMaxx]

Jeff and Reggie are both accurate in their assessments.

I have many beefs with this one but I can't get the image of Matt Schobel totally wiffing on the block on Alex Brown on the goal line on the 4th down play. While it's not totally clear Buck would have scored, the announcers accurately pointed out that Brown coming down the LOS and grabbing Buck at the last minute kept him from squirming for the last 6" needed for the TD. But if you watch Schobel on the play, he was face to face with Brown and as the ball is snapped, Schobel moves forward AND COMPLETELY MISSES BROWN! Are you kidding me? Brown hardly made a move to avoid him, he just made one of the worst attempts at a short yardage block I have ever seen. He just stood up and watched Brown run around him. On 4th down, 3 minutes left, your team needs the play to win. And you completely wiff. You know, I don't even know if wiff is the right word because it looks like Schobel didn't even try to block Brown.

I'm not one prone to overreaction but seriously, I would cut Schobel today if I were Reid. It would be one thing if the guy was a productive player but he has brought nothing to this team in the time he has been here and an extremely lame, poor effort on such an important play is inexcusable. With all of the other stuff that went on last night, the Eagles likely win the game if they score there and to see a lousy player like Schobel blow it on such a crucial play drives me nuts.

 

[Lehigh98]

That'll haunt them all year.

Kind of like the Bears game (and a couple others) last year.If they could have prevented that last minute 97 yard drve they make the playoffs instead of the SB champ Giants.Before the game I knew it would be tough to win with the injuries they had, but they had chances and should have won.If one person says look on the bright side its a moral victory (like the Dallas game) with those starters out, I'll strangle them.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Andy Reid is terrible at game management - Part 2.

Just over 2 minutes to go in the first half. The Bears get a very favorable spot on a 3rd and 7 to give them a first down on or about the Eagles 21.

Again, just over 2 minutes left in the first half.

A challenged spot may force a field goal try. The Eagles had a timeout I'm certain.

Note - YOU CANNOT CHALLENGE INSIDE OF 2 MINUTES.

So Reid doesn't challenge the spot. First down, Bears. Next play? TD Hester.

As for the Olsen TD, I doubt that it would be overturned which convinces me further that Al Michaels doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[The Noid]

There's lots of fingers to be pointed, but Schobel did prove to be worthless in that game. Besides that joke of a block attempt, he also dropped a key pass in the red zone.

If he has stone hands and can't block, why is he wasting space on the roster?

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Andy Reid is terrible at game management - Part 2.Just over 2 minutes to go in the first half. The Bears get a very favorable spot on a 3rd and 7 to give them a first down on or about the Eagles 21. Again, just over 2 minutes left in the first half.A challenged spot may force a field goal try. The Eagles had a timeout I'm certain. Note - YOU CANNOT CHALLENGE INSIDE OF 2 MINUTES.So Reid doesn't challenge the spot. First down, Bears. Next play? TD Hester.As for the Olsen TD, I doubt that it would be overturned which convinces me further that Al Michaels doesn't know what he's talking about.

First off, I hate when the Bears play the Eagles as it's odd to root against the Eagles. That being said, that spot the refs gave Forte was horrid. He missed the marker by at least a yard, possibly more. The people at the bar were screaming to have it reviewed.

 

[Tong Po]

My biggest complaint about the game was the play calling when they got down to the goal line with under 4 minutes left.

1) You are NOT a "pound the football" team. The Eagles pass the ball 175 times throughout the course of the game. Then at 1st and goal they decide to run 4 times????

2) Westbrook was in street clothes. If he was in the game, I have no problem taking those shots at the endzone. He has a knack for breaking that goal line... and is great at launching himself for the TD. Buckhalter? Not so much.

3) Why does the team REFUSE to run Donovan McNabb in short yardage situations? How about a fake handoff and a QB bootleg on one of those downs? Maybe a QB sneak? Even a bootleg with a tight end or fullback rolling out in the flat with him? Give the impression he is running for it and have a receiver running with him towards the corner of the endzone? Gimme something man!!!

That whole series was painful to watch.

 

[Polish Hammer]

My biggest complaint about the game was the play calling when they got down to the goal line with under 4 minutes left.

1) You are NOT a "pound the football" team. The Eagles pass the ball 175 times throughout the course of the game. Then at 1st and goal they decide to run 4 times????

2) Westbrook was in street clothes. If he was in the game, I have no problem taking those shots at the endzone. He has a knack for breaking that goal line... and is great at launching himself for the TD. Buckhalter? Not so much.

3) Why does the team REFUSE to run Donovan McNabb in short yardage situations? How about a fake handoff and a QB bootleg on one of those downs? Maybe a QB sneak? Even a bootleg with a tight end or fullback rolling out in the flat with him? Give the impression he is running for it and have a receiver running with him towards the corner of the endzone? Gimme something man!!!

That whole series was painful to watch.

I was thinking this same thing. Thinking of some dynamic WCO playmakers at QB, it is these plays utilizing mobility that really show the value of having a guy that can move. McNabb (when he was allowed to run free), Garcia, Young...all of these guys were great rolling out on a naked boot with a passing option to keep the defense honest. If you aren't utilizing all the talents of each player, you aren't utilizing them correctly. I don't want Donovan running 9 times a game, but when the right opportunity presents itself you need to make the defense respect that portion of the game.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

2) Westbrook was in street clothes. If he was in the game, I have no problem taking those shots at the endzone. He has a knack for breaking that goal line... and is great at launching himself for the TD. Buckhalter? Not so much.

To add something to this..... do you really think that possibly dressing him and have him on the field as a decoy at times wouldn't have been a good idea?Did we really need all 45 of those players active?

 

[Dragon1952]

I thought they should have tried the QB sneak also. At the 1/2 yd line, why hand it off 3 or 4 yds back? You've got a 6'2" 240 lb QB. He's gotta get one stinking yard in 4 attempts.

 

[LTsharks]

I thought they should have tried the QB sneak also. At the 1/2 yd line, why hand it off 3 or 4 yds back? You've got a 6'2" 240 lb QB. He's gotta get one stinking yard in 4 attempts.

Exactly. watch the replay again. the center was a half yard in the endzone with an opening behind him before the line collapsed down on them. McNabb wouldn't have had any problem getting that yard on a sneak.

 

[CaptainHook]

Since we're talking about Donovan so much, this may add some interesting quantification of his abilities and "clutch" factor:

McNabb - Clutch?

McNabb's clutch-play issue

Still, it's enlightening to compare how some of the other elite quarterbacks have fared in the same situation during their careers.

Tom Brady, for example, is 39-10 in games decided by seven points or fewer, including a 7-2 mark in the postseason. Maybe that means he has a better team, a better coach, and a better plan at the end of games. That's all part of a quarterback's greatness, too. But it most certainly means that Brady has made more big plays at the ends of games than McNabb.

Peyton Manning is 45-32 in games decided by seven points or fewer, but just 2-4 in the postseason. As brilliantly as Manning has played in his career, he also was widely criticized for his failure to come through in the clutch until he won a Super Bowl two seasons ago.

Brett Favre is 62-47 in games decided by seven points or fewer, but only 3-4 in the postseason. He, too, gets a hall pass because of that one Super Bowl victory. Favre, like McNabb, hasn't always come through in the clutch, a fact Eagles fans saw firsthand in a playoff game after the 2003 season. It was his awful wounded-duck interception to Brian Dawkins in overtime that sealed the Packers' fate after McNabb had delivered a miracle with a fourth-and-26 throw to Freddie Mitchell.

and each of those guys put it together enough times to win a superbowl. McNabb is 1-3 in NFC Champ games and 0-1 in his lone SB. A SB that he had a chance to win. Unfortunately, he lost his lunch and then the game that day

What was Peyton Manning's record in championship games and playoff games before his Superbowl victory?What about Elway?

You're ignoring the fact that it takes a great clutch player to even get his team in those positions.

mcnabb is an amazing talent. he can put up stats with the best of em.

yet he becomes noticeably worse when there is real pressure on him. 4th and 26's are when his talent returns because the pressure is off.

he isn't AWFUL in the clutch, but he goes from being a top 5 qb to a below average one when the game is on the line. you can plainly see him back there tapdancing around nervously afraid to make any mistake. cant believe those #### eating grins he pulls after making game-ruining mistakes. it looks like hes relieved that the burden of being in control of the outcome in a favorable position has been lifted off his shoulders. he has an inexplicable nonchalant attitude after every single game. no matter what happened its the same disinterested, detached tone of voice.

What I've realized is that he is sensitive and insecure and he doesn't really care about winning. The opinion of the general public has always been more important to him than winning. Luckily he is talented enough that he wins games basically by accident, but it is quite obvious to me that he doesn't have the same killer competitive "MUST WIN" mentality that almost all of the QBs in this league seem to have.

Westbrook has single-handedly won games at the end so many more times than Mcnabb ever has or will.

Not sure how a dumpoff to westbrook counts as mcnabb engineering a comeback(though he has been known to miss this pass quite frequently so I guess I should give him some credit for not throwing this into the ground)

tl;dr: An incredible talent turned into a sensitive baby by an overprotective mom.

I can't believe that you are an Eagles fan and have this perception. Your statements couldn't be further from the truth and are simply not accurate. McNabb has had to endure more criticism than almost any QB due to his injuries and the Philly fans' tendencies. He has dealt with this extremely well, and has lasted through it and become a better QB because of it. If you aren't mentally strong, then you wouldn't last 10 years as the starting Eagles QB. I guess this last week when he came back in after the chest injury, he wasn't showing the "MUST WIN" attitude. How about a few years ago when he played the second half on a broken ankle and threw 4 TD passes? Or dealing with the criticism last year despite recovering from a knee injury and dealing with the pressure of having Kolb drafted to possibly replace him? He had the second highest completion percentage of his career last year. I obviously don't know you, but when people post stuff like this, it really hurts the Eagles fans' reputation. Not all fans are bitter and fail to see what McNabb has meant to the franchise.

I never said he didn't care about his reputation, I just said he doesn't really give a #### whether his team wins the game or not. Do you want me to point out the years where he absolutely refused to take off from the pocket simply because he didn't like to be called a running quarterback? A 'chest injury' is a nothing injury in the NFL that's a ### #### bruise. After watching him lackadaisically approach end-of-game win or lose situations time after time nothing could convince me otherwise (well, nothing other than a change in his overall demeanor, of course).Every NFL QB gets just as much criticism as him, he's just the only one that latches onto it and can't forget about it. That rush limbaugh #### was a nothing comment that he completely blew out of proportion. We all saw how butthurt he got when TO threw a couple of petty, insignificant insults at him. It was somewhat understandable when he got upset early in his career, but the way he handled TO at that point in his career was just pathetic. "Black on black crime" I believe the quote was. Pitiful.

He seems to have matured a little bit as a person since the ACL injury, but I still haven't seen anything that has convinced me he cares about winning.

 

[scratcher]

Injury update

The Eagles got tight end L.J. Smith back from a back injury as they began preparing Wednesday to play the Redskins this weekend. Running back Brian Westbrook made it through the morning walkthrough; it was unclear the extent to which he intended to participate in practice. It didn't sound as if he would do much, but Westbrook said: "I'm close. Getting closer daily." Quarterback Donovan McNabb indicated he is thinking he will have Westbrook this weekend, until Westbrook really practices at full speed, no one knows that for sure. Last year, the Redskins prepared for the Eagles by using practice squad corner Byron Westbrook to mimic his older brother, and the younger Westbrook is again one of the Redskins' extras. Yesterday, Brian Westbrook said he didn't think that gimmick could really help Washington. "He's not as good as me," Brian joked. McNabb acknowledged his contused chest is still pretty sore, and that it is something that is "not going to get healed in a week or two," but McNabb felt his throwing motion wasn't restricted against Chicago and he doesn't expect it to be hindered this weekend. There was much discussion of how Sunday's loss brought back unpleasant memories of last season, and close losses to teams that didn't always seem to have superior talent. "You can't play 3 1/2 quarters of good football and not capitalize at the end," McNabb said. Eagles coach Andy Reid said DE Victor Abiamiri has gotten the screws removed from his wrist and should be able to practice soon. Reid said RG Shawn Andrews was being examined by a back specialist today.

 

[hotdogcollars]

this sucks. the rest of the division is 12-2 and we've already lost 2 division games. And now the westbrook news. Is it too early to throw in the towel for this year and just say Go Phils? Heck, even the sixers should be interesting this year with Brand coming to town.

 

[Lehigh98]

this sucks. the rest of the division is 12-2 and we've already lost 2 division games. And now the westbrook news. Is it too early to throw in the towel for this year and just say Go Phils? Heck, even the sixers should be interesting this year with Brand coming to town.

I gave up sometime in the 3rd quarter, this team disgusts me. Go Phils.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Why does our GL offense blow chunky soup?

 

[renesauz]

Very tough loss, and very inexplicable.

Birds absolutely could not convert a third down for most of the second and third quarters. Several EASY dropped passes killed drives before they could even get going. I thought McNabb looked good for the most part and see no reason to lay this loss at his feet.

Westbrook seemed a lot less explosive then normal, but I guess recovering from a bum ankle and playing with broken ribs could explain that. Regardless, he was caught from behind on one third down play.

The D-line looked like an entirely differrant unit from the first four weeks. Not only were they pushed around, but even when they were in position to make the play, they missed the tackle. When the offense finally seemed to get back on track, the D-line allowed the Skins to kill eight minutes of clock to ice the game. While the Eagles couldn't convert in the second and third quarters....one long drive after another behind Portis' rushing certainly limited the Eagles opportunities.

Not sure what happened on the third down pl;ayat the Skin's 2. Looked like McNabb checked to that running play...hard to put that on Reid. Obviously, it was the WRONG play to call, but had no effect on the game in the end since the offense never saw the ball again.

In the end, the majority of the blame goes to the unit that played the best in weeks 1-4...the D-Line. Not McNabb, not Reid.

 

[scratcher]

Very tough loss, and very inexplicable.Birds absolutely could not convert a third down for most of the second and third quarters. Several EASY dropped passes killed drives before they could even get going. I thought McNabb looked good for the most part and see no reason to lay this loss at his feet.Westbrook seemed a lot less explosive then normal, but I guess recovering from a bum ankle and playing with broken ribs could explain that. Regardless, he was caught from behind on one third down play.The D-line looked like an entirely differrant unit from the first four weeks. Not only were they pushed around, but even when they were in position to make the play, they missed the tackle. When the offense finally seemed to get back on track, the D-line allowed the Skins to kill eight minutes of clock to ice the game. While the Eagles couldn't convert in the second and third quarters....one long drive after another behind Portis' rushing certainly limited the Eagles opportunities.Not sure what happened on the third down pl;ayat the Skin's 2. Looked like McNabb checked to that running play...hard to put that on Reid. Obviously, it was the WRONG play to call, but had no effect on the game in the end since the offense never saw the ball again.In the end, the majority of the blame goes to the unit that played the best in weeks 1-4...the D-Line. Not McNabb, not Reid.

Hard to blame the D-line either after the offense goes 3 and out and puts them on the field for the majority of the game. I'm not sure why Reid refuses to call a few run plays for McNabb but that would make this a much more dynamic offense. Its hard for me to believe a 240 lb QB couldnt get 1 yd off a sneak.

 

[Pickle Rody]

I've been thinking about this for some time now, like a couple of years. I just didn't want to really "see" the light.

I really think Reid is the resaon for the Eagles huge successes since 2003. That being said, I also think Reid is the reason for the Eagles failures in so many situations over the last 4-5 years.

I think he is personally the reason our redzone scoring is absolutely horrendous this year. He is also the reason our 2-minute drill sucks as bad as it does. It has never been good under Reid. If the Eagles don't have a lead the defense can protect, we are in major trouble. I am at the point where I think he needs to go, or at least relinquish most (if not all) of the play calling to someone else. Maybe to the OC, maybe not. I just don't know. What I do know is that Reid is absolutely terrible at calling plays anymore. He seems to think his way is going to work, even though it rarely does. When will HE "see" the light? What will it take?

McNabb is clearly Reids boy, so it filters down to him also. McNabb does not do so well audibiling at the line of scrimmage. Why? Reid. McNabb clearly does everything by the Reid book. Who would expect otherwise?

Something has got to give. Maybe a total collapse by this team is the best thing to wish for at this point. Reason being: If they somehow manage to put together another winning season, then nobody is going to question Reid or consider removing/replacing him. Nor will anybody step in and tell him he needs to focus solely on certain aspects of the team and let his coordinators/assistants do the rest. If the Eagles do end up with a winning season this year I think it will be despite Reids presence, not due to it.

I would like to see Cowher in here next year. I think some new Head Coaching blood would be great for this franchise. Cowher wouldn't let his team get to the 1-yard line two weeks in a row without scoring a TD. I can guarantee that!!

Just my thoughts on Reid. I could be wrong.

 

[mudshark]

I've been thinking about this for some time now, like a couple of years. I just didn't want to really "see" the light. I really think Reid is the resaon for the Eagles huge successes since 2003. That being said, I also think Reid is the reason for the Eagles failures in so many situations over the last 4-5 years.I think he is personally the reason our redzone scoring is absolutely horrendous this year. He is also the reason our 2-minute drill sucks as bad as it does. It has never been good under Reid. If the Eagles don't have a lead the defense can protect, we are in major trouble. I am at the point where I think he needs to go, or at least relinquish most (if not all) of the play calling to someone else. Maybe to the OC, maybe not. I just don't know. What I do know is that Reid is absolutely terrible at calling plays anymore. He seems to think his way is going to work, even though it rarely does. When will HE "see" the light? What will it take?McNabb is clearly Reids boy, so it filters down to him also. McNabb does not do so well audibiling at the line of scrimmage. Why? Reid. McNabb clearly does everything by the Reid book. Who would expect otherwise?Something has got to give. Maybe a total collapse by this team is the best thing to wish for at this point. Reason being: If they somehow manage to put together another winning season, then nobody is going to question Reid or consider removing/replacing him. Nor will anybody step in and tell him he needs to focus solely on certain aspects of the team and let his coordinators/assistants do the rest. If the Eagles do end up with a winning season this year I think it will be despite Reids presence, not due to it.I would like to see Cowher in here next year. I think some new Head Coaching blood would be great for this franchise. Cowher wouldn't let his team get to the 1-yard line two weeks in a row without scoring a TD. I can guarantee that!!Just my thoughts on Reid. I could be wrong.

I found this interesting. Rich Kotite was head coach of the Eagles for 4 years. He went 10-6, 11-5, 8-8, 7-9; 36 wins over those four years. Since their Super Bowl loss following the 2004 season, the Eagles under Andy Reid have gone 6-10, 10-6, 8-8, ?-?. Unless they make the playoffs this season, Reid will have matched Kotites playoff record as well (1-1).I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

 

[scratcher]

I've been thinking about this for some time now, like a couple of years. I just didn't want to really "see" the light. I really think Reid is the resaon for the Eagles huge successes since 2003. That being said, I also think Reid is the reason for the Eagles failures in so many situations over the last 4-5 years.I think he is personally the reason our redzone scoring is absolutely horrendous this year. He is also the reason our 2-minute drill sucks as bad as it does. It has never been good under Reid. If the Eagles don't have a lead the defense can protect, we are in major trouble. I am at the point where I think he needs to go, or at least relinquish most (if not all) of the play calling to someone else. Maybe to the OC, maybe not. I just don't know. What I do know is that Reid is absolutely terrible at calling plays anymore. He seems to think his way is going to work, even though it rarely does. When will HE "see" the light? What will it take?McNabb is clearly Reids boy, so it filters down to him also. McNabb does not do so well audibiling at the line of scrimmage. Why? Reid. McNabb clearly does everything by the Reid book. Who would expect otherwise?Something has got to give. Maybe a total collapse by this team is the best thing to wish for at this point. Reason being: If they somehow manage to put together another winning season, then nobody is going to question Reid or consider removing/replacing him. Nor will anybody step in and tell him he needs to focus solely on certain aspects of the team and let his coordinators/assistants do the rest. If the Eagles do end up with a winning season this year I think it will be despite Reids presence, not due to it.I would like to see Cowher in here next year. I think some new Head Coaching blood would be great for this franchise. Cowher wouldn't let his team get to the 1-yard line two weeks in a row without scoring a TD. I can guarantee that!!Just my thoughts on Reid. I could be wrong.

I pretty much agree. I think Reid would be a good GM but has terrible in game coaching skills. Of all the NFL games I watch, I am never scratching my head wondering WTF as much as I am watching Reid coach a game. I still feel this is one of the most talented teams in the league and it's just a shame to see it wasted week after week. I don't know about Cowher being the answer...

 

[None_More_Black]

I've been thinking about this for some time now, like a couple of years. I just didn't want to really "see" the light. I really think Reid is the resaon for the Eagles huge successes since 2003. That being said, I also think Reid is the reason for the Eagles failures in so many situations over the last 4-5 years.I think he is personally the reason our redzone scoring is absolutely horrendous this year. He is also the reason our 2-minute drill sucks as bad as it does. It has never been good under Reid. If the Eagles don't have a lead the defense can protect, we are in major trouble. I am at the point where I think he needs to go, or at least relinquish most (if not all) of the play calling to someone else. Maybe to the OC, maybe not. I just don't know. What I do know is that Reid is absolutely terrible at calling plays anymore. He seems to think his way is going to work, even though it rarely does. When will HE "see" the light? What will it take?McNabb is clearly Reids boy, so it filters down to him also. McNabb does not do so well audibiling at the line of scrimmage. Why? Reid. McNabb clearly does everything by the Reid book. Who would expect otherwise?Something has got to give. Maybe a total collapse by this team is the best thing to wish for at this point. Reason being: If they somehow manage to put together another winning season, then nobody is going to question Reid or consider removing/replacing him. Nor will anybody step in and tell him he needs to focus solely on certain aspects of the team and let his coordinators/assistants do the rest. If the Eagles do end up with a winning season this year I think it will be despite Reids presence, not due to it.I would like to see Cowher in here next year. I think some new Head Coaching blood would be great for this franchise. Cowher wouldn't let his team get to the 1-yard line two weeks in a row without scoring a TD. I can guarantee that!!Just my thoughts on Reid. I could be wrong.

I pretty much agree. I think Reid would be a good GM but has terrible in game coaching skills. Of all the NFL games I watch, I am never scratching my head wondering WTF as much as I am watching Reid coach a game. I still feel this is one of the most talented teams in the league and it's just a shame to see it wasted week after week. I don't know about Cowher being the answer...

Reid is very good at the economics of NFL football but not a great game day coach. (although the scripted plays at the beginning of the game are usually effective). He needs to bring in a fresh young mind similar to a Jason Garratt to help him with plays and game management. Morninghweg probably is best suited as qb coach.

 

[Colt Of Personality]

And is it just me or are you just SICK and TIRED of hearing how he has to do a better job at his press conferences? Yeah Andy, ya do - NOW DO IT!

 

[Pickle Rody]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

Yeah scratcher, I'm not sure about Cowher either, just the first name I thought of (ex Eagle and SB winner.) New blood is what is needed either way. Not saying Reid should go altogether, he just needs to relinquish some control to fresher minds.

I've been sick and tired of Reids pressers for years now. I avoid watching or listening to them like the plague because he says nothing new, ever. "Blah, blah, blah, I've got to do better, blah, blah & blah." Whatever.

 

[Lehigh98]

Reid is very good at the economics of NFL football but not a great game day coach. (although the scripted plays at the beginning of the game are usually effective). He needs to bring in a fresh young mind similar to a Jason Garratt to help him with plays and game management. Morninghweg probably is best suited as qb coach.

Lane Kiffin?

 

[renesauz]

Reid is very good at the economics of NFL football but not a great game day coach. (although the scripted plays at the beginning of the game are usually effective). He needs to bring in a fresh young mind similar to a Jason Garratt to help him with plays and game management. Morninghweg probably is best suited as qb coach.

Lane Kiffin?

Not a terrible thought (as an assistant, not head coach).

 

[Demian]

The play on the goal line was supposed to be a strong side run to the right but LJ Smith botched it and lined up on the left side. So McNabb audibled to run where the personnel was but it didn't work.

 

[Jason Wood]

Really disheartened. 2-3 and all three division rivals looking rock solid. Washington, who I thought would be a train wreck, beats Dallas and Philly in the early going and Jason Campbell is incapable [apparently] of turning the ball over. Now with Westbrook's ribs broken, it's very difficult to muster any kind of legitimate enthusiasm for a season that started off so well.

 

[scratcher]

This is about as bad as a season can start. Philly on the bottom looking up. All three other NFC East teams look beastly. The freakin Panthers are doing well... Makes me just not even want to watch football. Sigh what a waste of Sunday Ticket.

 

[jerseys finest]

Now is it just me or has our beloved eagles been typically horrible in the redzone again this year. I'd attribute most of the 2 losses(from the offensive side) to chicago and washington, from our inability to get the ball in the endzone from inside the 20. I think it comes down to us having no real red zone threat on this team(along with bad playcalling, cbuck 3 straight times from the 2? come on). We thought it mighta been a healthy LJ smith, but that doesn't seem to be the case. For all that Desean has been great at, a threat in the red zone he is not. Nor is curtis/brown. Since McNabb doesn't run but once in a blue moon these days, its painful to watch my beloved eagles crack repeatedly in the redzone, and the usually automatic akers accuracy has become a question mark itself.

This next part is total hypothesis and i have nothing other then my opinion to back it up. I highly doubt this happens, but its still a possibility. Hear me out on this, maybe deranged hermit can let on if he's heard anything on this. Roy Williams. It looked to me like Detroit was trying to showcase him before the trade deadline. They targeted him 18 times in their game against the bears, over 9 more then he's seen all season in a single game. Detroit is ready to clear house and i'd think they'd want to get something for him, before he walks for nothing as an UFA, or he sulks another year with the franchise tag.. RoyWil would give us that redzone threat that we are so sorely missing right now(26 yr old, 6'3'', 215, physical/jump ball type). For all the knocks on him, he's still an extremely talented WR, who i'd think would benefit from a change of scenery(not just if he came to philly, i think he does well if he goes to any semi capable team). Comparing situations, not talent, i'd say this is eerily similar to randy moss in oakland. He was on a bad team going in the wrong direction, didn't want to be and his play/attitude showed it. He went for a 4th round pick. Now i dont think RoyWil would go that cheap, but if we were to offer a second or a third for him, if other teams are driving the price up, possibly even the first from Carolina (which looks now like a low first rounder), it might pay huge dividends in opening this offense up in the red zone.

Like i said, this is just my opinion and i think it is an extremely long or most likely has no shot to happen and i dont think its the only way we turn this season around, but it seems to me like a reasonable one to try and cure our redzone defficeincies. Otherwise, defenses will continue to stack the box against westy, lock the smaller WR's down in single coverage and i'll continue to cheer and be furious as they sputter after truckin from 20 to 20 to maybe pound one in or put it on the suddenly questionable leg of akers.

Thoughts? Ideas? FU's?

 

[mudshark]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

And if the Eagles win 3 more games this year, their win total over the last 4 years (since the start of '05) will match the 4 year win total of Ray Rhodes (29). And Reid's four year window started with a Super Bowl caliber team.From Super Bowl to struggling to match the success of Kotite and Rhodes.

 

[Zoomanji]

The following is an entry from Donovan McNabb's personal blog on Yardbarker.com:

I made a comment after the game (Sunday) that's worth repeating — I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed with the way we played the past two weeks. I believe that we lost to teams we should have beaten. Not because I think they are not good — they are. But I still believe we are better; we just didn't show it.

I'm embarrassed with the way I played. I didn't do enough to win the game for my team. I take that to heart. I want the ball in my hand when the game is on the line and, if I have it, I have to make a play. I'll take that responsibility. All three of our losses were within a score, so one play could have made a difference — a fumble, an interception, calling an audible, not calling an audible.

I am a proud person and I work hard to prepare to win each and every week. Certainly there have been times where we have been beaten. Take nothing away from other teams who also prepare hard and have a high skill level. You can't win every week. But losing in the fashion that we have just doesn't sit well with me.

I've made mistakes and I've owned up to them. I'm sure that some of my teammates and coaches might feel that they also could have done better. But a play here and a play there is costing us precious division and conference games that can bite us down the stretch. We didn't start playing well last year until it was too late. It's not too late to turn it around now. But to do so, we have to be embarrassed enough as a team to do something about it.

I'm better than this and I'll prove it. I know my team is too. Now we have to prove it.

And the 2-3 start reinforces my opinion that the problem is with Reid. His play calling still stinks, clock management hasn't improved, they are unprepared to play from behind and in the final 2 minutes and his failure to bring in any WRs other than the failed TO experiment is a joke. And the constant stream of flags on them is ridiculous.If Eagles fans want to run some one out of town it should be Reid not McNabb.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The following is an entry from Donovan McNabb's personal blog on Yardbarker.com:

I made a comment after the game (Sunday) that's worth repeating — I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed with the way we played the past two weeks. I believe that we lost to teams we should have beaten. Not because I think they are not good — they are. But I still believe we are better; we just didn't show it.

I'm embarrassed with the way I played. I didn't do enough to win the game for my team. I take that to heart. I want the ball in my hand when the game is on the line and, if I have it, I have to make a play. I'll take that responsibility. All three of our losses were within a score, so one play could have made a difference — a fumble, an interception, calling an audible, not calling an audible.

I am a proud person and I work hard to prepare to win each and every week. Certainly there have been times where we have been beaten. Take nothing away from other teams who also prepare hard and have a high skill level. You can't win every week. But losing in the fashion that we have just doesn't sit well with me.

I've made mistakes and I've owned up to them. I'm sure that some of my teammates and coaches might feel that they also could have done better. But a play here and a play there is costing us precious division and conference games that can bite us down the stretch. We didn't start playing well last year until it was too late. It's not too late to turn it around now. But to do so, we have to be embarrassed enough as a team to do something about it.

I'm better than this and I'll prove it. I know my team is too. Now we have to prove it.

And the 2-3 start reinforces my opinion that the problem is with Reid. His play calling still stinks, clock management hasn't improved, they are unprepared to play from behind and in the final 2 minutes and his failure to bring in any WRs other than the failed TO experiment is a joke. And the constant stream of flags on them is ridiculous.If Eagles fans want to run some one out of town it should be Reid not McNabb.

Reid needs to get over himself, acknowledge his shortcomings and hire two more coaches just for clock management / situational advisement and also another for challenges / replays.IIRC, Nick Saban hired an ex-referee while he was at Miami for the sole purpose of advising when to make a challenge. Given how close NFL games can be it is these little differences that can really matter.

 

[Pickle Rody]

Reid needs to get over himself, acknowledge his shortcomings and hire two more coaches just for clock management / situational advisement and also another for challenges / replays.

IIRC, Nick Saban hired an ex-referee while he was at Miami for the sole purpose of advising when to make a challenge. Given how close NFL games can be it is these little differences that can really matter.

I am in total agreement with this statement.I believe it may be some time before it happens though as Reid has too much control, too much pull with the front office and they seem unwilling to step on his toes. Maybe they are afraid he will leave if they try to pull some of his dictatorship away from him?

 

[Slider]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

And if the Eagles win 3 more games this year, their win total over the last 4 years (since the start of '05) will match the 4 year win total of Ray Rhodes (29). And Reid's four year window started with a Super Bowl caliber team.From Super Bowl to struggling to match the success of Kotite and Rhodes.

That's a stupid comparison. He took a 3-13 team and built them to a Superbowl contending team AND sustained it. You can't throw away all the success and say he started with a Superbowl caliber team. I know a lot of people are frustrated and rightly so. But be careful what you wish for. Outside of John Fox there's not a whole lot of coaches I like as much. Cowher had 14 years to get a ring.And his ring was a gift. Some act like he's some kind of upgrade.

 

[Zoomanji]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

And if the Eagles win 3 more games this year, their win total over the last 4 years (since the start of '05) will match the 4 year win total of Ray Rhodes (29). And Reid's four year window started with a Super Bowl caliber team.From Super Bowl to struggling to match the success of Kotite and Rhodes.

That's a stupid comparison. He took a 3-13 team and built them to a Superbowl contending team AND sustained it. You can't throw away all the success and say he started with a Superbowl caliber team. I know a lot of people are frustrated and rightly so. But be careful what you wish for. Outside of John Fox there's not a whole lot of coaches I like as much. Cowher had 14 years to get a ring.And his ring was a gift. Some act like he's some kind of upgrade.

I agree on a bunch of your points. Kotite took a team downhill, Andy built one up. Big difference.I'm not much of a Fox fan or Cowher fan and we could easily have a worse coach. But at this point I'd rather take my chances on a new coach (not one of the 20 retreads) then keep Shottenheimer Part II.

 

[mudshark]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

And if the Eagles win 3 more games this year, their win total over the last 4 years (since the start of '05) will match the 4 year win total of Ray Rhodes (29). And Reid's four year window started with a Super Bowl caliber team.From Super Bowl to struggling to match the success of Kotite and Rhodes.

That's a stupid comparison. He took a 3-13 team and built them to a Superbowl contending team AND sustained it. You can't throw away all the success and say he started with a Superbowl caliber team. I know a lot of people are frustrated and rightly so. But be careful what you wish for. Outside of John Fox there's not a whole lot of coaches I like as much. Cowher had 14 years to get a ring.And his ring was a gift. Some act like he's some kind of upgrade.

I'm not comparing one coach to another. Like I stated, I give AR much of the credit for a wonderful turn around. However, the production in the win column, where it matters, is what it is. He certainly turned around a 3-13 team. What has he done over the last 4 years, and do you see it improving?What exactly has he sustained over the last four seasons?

 

[mudshark]

Kotite took a team downhill, Andy built one up. Big difference.

I'm not much of a Fox fan or Cowher fan and we could easily have a worse coach. But at this point I'd rather take my chances on a new coach (not one of the 20 retreads) then keep Shottenheimer Part II.

Absolutely. AR inherited a 3-13 team and took them to the Super Bowl. Four years ago. Since then they are 6-10, 10-6, 8-8, 2-3. Is this team going uphill or downhill?

 

[Zoomanji]

Kotite took a team downhill, Andy built one up. Big difference.

I'm not much of a Fox fan or Cowher fan and we could easily have a worse coach. But at this point I'd rather take my chances on a new coach (not one of the 20 retreads) then keep Shottenheimer Part II.

Absolutely. AR inherited a 3-13 team and took them to the Super Bowl. Four years ago. Since then they are 6-10, 10-6, 8-8, 2-3. Is this team going uphill or downhill?

Treading water while the rest of the NFC east gets better

 

[fred_1_15301]

I agree Reid gets a lot of credit for the teams turnaround with all of their playoff success from 2000 - 2004. But since then is it safe to say the last 3+ seasons are comparable to the Kotite years?

This is what I was thinking, just didn't post it correctly. Yes, since '04, he is predictably awful with in game decision making with regards to play calling, just awful. Pasquino pointed out some glaring flaws from this weekends game that do well to make my point.I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed all of this.

And if the Eagles win 3 more games this year, their win total over the last 4 years (since the start of '05) will match the 4 year win total of Ray Rhodes (29). And Reid's four year window started with a Super Bowl caliber team.From Super Bowl to struggling to match the success of Kotite and Rhodes.

That's a stupid comparison. He took a 3-13 team and built them to a Superbowl contending team AND sustained it. You can't throw away all the success and say he started with a Superbowl caliber team. I know a lot of people are frustrated and rightly so. But be careful what you wish for. Outside of John Fox there's not a whole lot of coaches I like as much. Cowher had 14 years to get a ring.And his ring was a gift. Some act like he's some kind of upgrade.

Take this for what it's worth since I'm a steeler fan living in Philly but I don't think it would be such a bad move to bring in a guy like Cowher. Is Cowher a better in-game coach than Reid? Not sure but can he really be any worse at this point? Since I've moved to Philly (2 years ago), I've seen Reid make some absolutely horrific and boneheaded calls. As far as in-game management, he's below average.The one thing I see in Cowher that I don't see in Reid is an ability to motivate the players. Maybe it's just his quiet personality but you never see Reid going nuts on the sideline. I think this team (which already lacks leadership) needs a coach who can light a fire under them.

 

[Mighty Mice]

Well, it wasn't pretty. They have a lot to address and fix during this week off. All in all though, that was as good a week as could be expected. Washington and Dallas both fall back a game, Carolina loses (Next years draft pick ), and most importantly they get the win and a week to get healthy.

Still concerned, but things overall look a lot better than they did this morning.